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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:26:00 -
[61]
You would have to pay more than sub imo, like 2-3x sub fee to cover the waiting time you are skipping. |
Lorichai
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:28:00 -
[62]
Unless i'm completely mis-understanding something, my understanding is that there will not be any micro-transactions. To me,that means no rl currency for in game anything (beyond plex and account changes i suppose would be more factual.)
So if there is not going to be any RMT, then "buying" sp isnt a concern, unless its done with isk. (again, unless i'm not understanding something.)
I'm not quite sure which side of this im on. I've played a heck of a lot of mmo's for a heck of a long time. I've seen games, in the same verbiage earlier in another thread, say "There are currently no plans to go to microtransactions." Then, six months later, a game goes FTP and a cash shop emerges. Huh? Current being the key word it would have seemed.
All of the cash shops i've seen are very good about not selling top tier items that SHOULD only be gotten through questing/grinding/raiding/etc. I would consider "free sp" to be a top tier item. Those same games sell "xp bonus potions" of some kind, but they require you to complete objectives to get that percent increase, in Eve, you simply need to have an active account. I dont think there's a way to make it objective based as there are an enormous amount of possible things to do, as we know.
So, wall of text later. I dunno. I can see both sides and i dont really want to be able to buy sp. On the other hand, a million (just to throw a number out there) sp for a new(er) player can be spent on a whole lot more things than an old(er) player. Mebbe that evens it out a bit.
Just some useless ramblings of a nobody, take from it what you will.
R |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:40:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Overnight you say.....
Why yes, I do. It's even right there where you can read it. Of course, I mean in the figurative sense, not in the "exactly 12 hours of darkness" sense.
Quote:
I do like hysterical propaganda as much as the next guy... but how do you think it will end overnight?
I'm hardly hysterical. I like this game, as anyone who knows me will attest. I'm not so enamored of it that I don't see its flaws, though. The SP issue is not one of those flaws, and in the unlikely event that CCP attempted to start selling SP, it would mean changing one of the most fundamental tenets of the game, and as I noted before, one of the things that makes it unique.
You might get a bunch of clueless noobs who will play the game, spend a few bucks on upgrading characters, and leave as clueless as they came. In the meantime everyone who made this game what it is will have moved on, knowing that their investment of time and effort can now just be accomplished by someone with deep enough pockets or daddy's credit card.
Quote:
And since the earth is round, who's overnight are we talking about here? American Daylight Walking Millionaires buying up SP real estate in bulk as to kill Eve for Asians overnight?
Or Australian millionaires so the europeans wake up to bleak wastelands?
Can you be more specific as to how this will occur?
Just look at how terrible you are. And you accuse ME of hysteria?
Games get killed off all the time by poor decisions from developers. The list is legion and doesn't bear repeating here. I doubt CCP's stupid enough to do this, but if they do, they're welcome to the customers they'll have. Who knows, maybe they'll have MORE customers and make MORE money. But they won't have the same ones they have now. It really would be a kick in the pills to anyone who's played the game for a while.
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:51:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Games get killed off all the time by poor decisions from developers. The list is legion and doesn't bear repeating here. I doubt CCP's stupid enough to do this, but if they do, they're welcome to the customers they'll have. Who knows, maybe they'll have MORE customers and make MORE money. But they won't have the same ones they have now. It really would be a kick in the pills to anyone who's played the game for a while.
That's all very dire prediction, I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish.. but murder one had the best bittervet eve is dying whine threads of all time. OF ALL TIME. and if eve-search was up, I'd have it linked here right now... |
RatKnight1
Gallente
Mahdi Followers
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:52:00 -
[65]
I see it like this:
I have played for a little over a year now, and I just passed the 10.5 million SP mark. I worked my asp off to get that far. I would quit the game if some 2 day old character showed up in a carrier and blew up my battleship. I mean, it basically comes down to how fair it is for the people who have put the most amount of time and money into this game. The people who have been playing the longest are the ones who will continue to play, and continue to put money and time into the game. Whereas the 3 month old characters have put very little money or time into the game, and should not be on par with the older players.
It is like high school, sure all the freshman want to be seniors, but the seniors have to graduate first, and the freshman have to work their way to that level.
Rat |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:55:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Games get killed off all the time by poor decisions from developers. The list is legion and doesn't bear repeating here. I doubt CCP's stupid enough to do this, but if they do, they're welcome to the customers they'll have. Who knows, maybe they'll have MORE customers and make MORE money. But they won't have the same ones they have now. It really would be a kick in the pills to anyone who's played the game for a while.
That's all very dire prediction, I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish.. but murder one had the best bittervet eve is dying whine threads of all time. OF ALL TIME. and if eve-search was up, I'd have it linked here right now...
You know how I know you're a troll?
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: RatKnight1
I see it like this:
I have played for a little over a year now, and I just passed the 10.5 million SP mark. I worked my asp off to get that far.
Interesting, I spent most of the time asleep gaining sp, or playing other games, cooking dinner... walking along the banks of the Seine in August... or just sitting in the back listening to the bees going about their business.
Quote:
I would quit the game if some 2 day old character showed up in a carrier and blew up my battleship. I mean, it basically comes down to how fair it is for the people who have put the most amount of time and money into this game. The people who have been playing the longest are the ones who will continue to play, and continue to put money and time into the game. Whereas the 3 month old characters have put very little money or time into the game, and should not be on par with the older players.
And they can do it today at the Character Bazaar. But you're still playing, WHAT IS THIS VOODOO?
Quote:
It is like high school, sure all the freshman want to be seniors, but the seniors have to graduate first, and the freshman have to work their way to that level.
I got my first degree age 15, beat that with a stick. |
Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.24 23:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
You know how I know you're a troll?
Because I failed to agree with you? |
Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.06.25 00:46:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 25/06/2010 00:54:43
CCP already allows indirect sp purchase by means of the character trade.
The day players are allowed to directly purchase raw sp is the day I cancel my subscriptions. This would be an absolutely TERRIBLE game design choice.
Edit:
To people complaining about the gap in sp between new and older players, you guys are failing to realize that sp does not scale linearly. If a newer character specs correctly he can match the oldest player's SP very quickly, only NOT in all areas. Older players often end up as jacks of all trades, but it is pretty easy to select a race and be able to use it efficiently enough to kill in a shorter time frame.
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.25 01:06:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Zill on 25/06/2010 02:51:16
Edited by: Zill on 25/06/2010 02:49:01
As much as I hate SOE style MMO's EvE is a little different, I would be happy to buy SP. The whole "I did it oldschool" you have too as well, thing is silly. Allowing people to buy it would get a great many people up to the point they go to 0.0 (some of em)
Personally I dont believe it will happen.
this is one 03 would be happy to see CCP allow newbes to catch up to everyone els. It only benefits everyone to have it happen. You have to remember this is a 7 year old game. Some people will NEVER see the so called endgame now.
Also, a newbe player can not an will not no matter how he skills, catch up to a 4-5 year old player in any sort of "short time" it's physically impossible. |
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Sourpsalm
Gallente
Pubs 'n Clubs
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:33:00 -
[71]
Allowing for SP to be boughten' would bring in the riff raff that we don't want 'round these here parts. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:40:00 -
[72]
Originally by: James Tritanius
ITT:
Bitter vets contradict themselves by saying new players with loads of ISK and skill points would just make silly KMs in one breath. While saying it is unfair that new players can catch up to them in another.
Gavjack Bunk alt detected.
I see theres the millionaires rubbish, the bitter old vet trash and logical arguments that make sense to only gavjack...lonely out there? |
Ahzeekehal
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Posted - 2010.06.25 02:54:00 -
[73]
7+ years Multiple accounts
Allow the direct purchase of SP and I am gone daddy gone
Don't post here often but I read the Forums allot,so no stranger to the replies coming my way.
F OFF No you cant have my stuff |
Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.25 08:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: James Tritanius
ITT:
Bitter vets contradict themselves by saying new players with loads of ISK and skill points would just make silly KMs in one breath. While saying it is unfair that new players can catch up to them in another.
Gavjack Bunk alt detected.
I see theres the millionaires rubbish, the bitter old vet trash and logical arguments that make sense to only gavjack...lonely out there?
::Bitteroldvet:: wrong again detected.
--
On planets... nobody can see you macro mining... |
Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2010.06.25 08:34:00 -
[75]
Bying SP (directly) wouldn't be a tragedy since it's already common and wide spread business done through character trades. In other words - it's already bad enough.
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Amberlamps
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Posted - 2010.06.25 14:38:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Aldarica
Bying SP (directly) wouldn't be a tragedy since it's already common and wide spread business done through character trades. In other words - it's already bad enough.
Not quite the same.
Lets say we have MRS A
MRS A has 100mil SP a titan pilot, a random account purchases that player and MRS A is transferred over. One titan pilot no odd SP gains.
Instead...
Random account decides not to buy a character and buys SP instead. Random character jumps up with a highly skilled pilot within the same time it would take to transfer a character.
There are now two titan pilots, one took the length of time everyone else has had to endure, the other got instant pleasure by buying his way to glory. Eve has lost its balance...
Of course 1000ISK per SP I would happily pay, but real cash feck off.
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.25 14:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Amberlamps
Originally by: Aldarica
Bying SP (directly) wouldn't be a tragedy since it's already common and wide spread business done through character trades. In other words - it's already bad enough.
Not quite the same.
Lets say we have MRS A
MRS A has 100mil SP a titan pilot, a random account purchases that player and MRS A is transferred over. One titan pilot no odd SP gains.
Instead...
Random account decides not to buy a character and buys SP instead. Random character jumps up with a highly skilled pilot within the same time it would take to transfer a character.
There are now two titan pilots, one took the length of time everyone else has had to endure, the other got instant pleasure by buying his way to glory. Eve has lost its balance...
Of course 1000ISK per SP I would happily pay, but real cash feck off.
But MRS A didn't want the Titan pilot. It now sits dormant while Random account is playing with his.
CCP sold two lots of sp, but only one lot is being used.
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On planets... nobody can see you macro mining... |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.25 21:29:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 25/06/2010 21:32:46
Originally by: Malcanis
PLEX sales are as close as I or anyone with an ounce of sense wants to see EVE getting to a cash shop game.
My paraphrase of your sig was not that far off 
Again, I will say that any vet that thinks this would be bad to implement is not really thinking things through very clearly, as has been pointed out by a few posters in this thread, in a few different fashions.
EDIT:
Skill points are already purchaseable. Are people just bent out of shape because some new player can come up a with a cool name and spend the cash for the skillpoints to go along with it? Or are people scarred that a sudden influx of Titans will flow into 0.0?
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.06.25 21:38:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Amberlamps
Originally by: Aldarica
Bying SP (directly) wouldn't be a tragedy since it's already common and wide spread business done through character trades. In other words - it's already bad enough.
Not quite the same.
Lets say we have MRS A
MRS A has 100mil SP a titan pilot, a random account purchases that player and MRS A is transferred over. One titan pilot no odd SP gains.
Instead...
Random account decides not to buy a character and buys SP instead. Random character jumps up with a highly skilled pilot within the same time it would take to transfer a character.
There are now two titan pilots, one took the length of time everyone else has had to endure, the other got instant pleasure by buying his way to glory. Eve has lost its balance...
Of course 1000ISK per SP I would happily pay, but real cash feck off.
But MRS A didn't want the Titan pilot. It now sits dormant while Random account is playing with his.
CCP sold two lots of sp, but only one lot is being used.
You've already been made to look like and idiot in every other thread about this, don't make take take the time to do it in this one as well.
Not that I really have to I suppose, you've already done a smashing job of that yourself.
Try not to over feed the troll boys.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.06.26 00:59:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Ranger 1
You've already been made to look like an idiot in every other thread about this, don't make me take the time to do it in this one as well.
Not that I really have to I suppose, you've already done a smashing job of that yourself.
Try not to over feed the troll boys.
I do not look like an idiot, and nobody has made me look an idiot. Still nobody has managed to answer the basic questions regarding CCP selling SP directly, all they have managed to do is spout the same jealous nonsense over and over.
"No, because I didn't get this when I played"
"No, because it will destroy eve" (They mean for them, not actually destroy)
"No, because secret millionaires plot to destroy Eve for everybody"
"No, because it's different. I don't like different."
"No, and if I have to explain why then they don't "get" Eve". (You're right then, I don't get it, help me get it, oh no... you've gone already, shocker)
"No, because I don't want somebody with more money than me beating me while I am busy buying PLEX with Isk because I'm poor" (lol, like Eve is supposed to be the single place on earth where this does not happen)
And so on. Nobody has yet managed to come up with anything that they can quantify and justify beyond "Just no".
If you prefer I can provide excellent reasons as to why CCP shouldn't do it. Even though I would prefer that they did, I've still managed to come up with better reasons than the kneejerkers have managed over the last few weeks, I have to think up good reasons why not, so that I can counter those arguements if they come up. Oh boy did I ever overestimate the collective intelligence of the entire eve fanboi community.
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On planets... nobody can see you macro mining... |
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.06.26 01:26:00 -
[81]
It was argued on a similar idea before in FnI that the idea eveutally equated a maxed out character at the cost of a titan. As common as titans are today I can easily see it as an extremly BAD idea.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
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John Ellsworth
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Posted - 2010.06.26 01:52:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Spankable Delight
I realise that CCP are only talking about giving us SP as a gift for the extended downtime but having read a few of the other threads there seems to be a lot of resistance to the idea of them ever offering skill points for sale and I'm curious why. I'm a relatively new player myself and am not really sure I understand why this seems to be a hot topic, beyond the "we have been playing this game longer and don't want people paying to catch up."
Thoughts?
simply because it would not be fair the all the players that did not get this option as a new player ... But then you all know and realize this correct?   
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar
3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.06.26 06:29:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Nobody has yet managed to come up with anything that they can quantify and justify beyond "Just no".
I'll take a stab at this and quote part of a textbook I found on Computer Game Design.
Quote:
THE ILLUSION OF WINNABILITY
Another important trait of any game is the illusion of winnability. If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to the player, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. It must appear to be winnable to all players, the beginner and the expert. Yet, it must never be truly winnable or it will lose its appeal. This illusion is very difficult to maintain. Some games maintain it for the expert but never achieve it for the beginner; these games intimidate all but the most determined players. TEMPEST, for example, intimidates many players because it appears to be unwinnable. The most successful game in this respect is PAC-MAN, which appears winnable to most players, yet is never quite winnable.
The most important factor in the creation of the illusion of winnability is the cleanliness of the game. A dirty game intimidates its beginners with an excess of details. The beginner never overcomes the inhibiting suspicion that somewhere in the game lurks a "gotcha". By contrast, a clean game encourages all players to experiment with the game as it appears.
Another key factor in maintaining the illusion of winnability arises from a careful analysis of the source of player failure. In every game the player is expected to fail often. What trips up the player? If the player believes that his failure arises from some flaw in the game or its controls, he becomes frustrated and angry with what he rightly judges to be an unfair and unwinnable situation. If the player believes that his failure arises from his own limitations, but judges that the game expects or requires superhuman performance, the player again rejects the game as unfair and unwinnable. But if the player believes failures to be attributable to correctable errors on his own part, he believes the game to be winnable and plays on in an effort to master the game. When the player falls, he should slap himself gently and say, "That was a silly mistake!"
Eve does this very well in my opinion. I also think CCP has done a good job identifying areas of failure and elimnated many of the frustrating trip ups that appear to be 'unfair' and out of the player's control.
Allowing us to buy SP's, which CCP has already officially said they have no intention of doing in another thread, would take away the "continuing challenge" part of the game and would soon become boring.
Source of article http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu/fac/peabody/game-book/Chapter6.html
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Gith Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.26 06:32:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 26/06/2010 06:32:38
True, you can Buy PLEX, sell for isk, then buy chars with that isk. But thats not quite the same thing. That character has burned time to train, and if the player is located on one end of the world or the other, it doesnt really matter who is playing it, that character has 'earned' his SP.
On the other hand, allowing people to flat out buy SP means everyone with a fat bank account will be flying titans by the end of the week.
~ ° ° ° ~
Non-Gameplay Enhancements! |
Ocih
Amarr
The Program
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.06.26 06:42:00 -
[85]
If they want to sell Skill points I really dont care. 2 month old noob in his hyperion, he thought he had the steel to make a low sec run. It wasnt his skill points that got him killed, it was putting a ship in a situation it was never meant to survive.
If they sell SP, it will be a 10 month old noob in a marauder. He will still die. EvE is experience and ISK. They will come long after you have the SP to activate the ships with the current SP turnover. Speed it up, it's just going to mean the learning experience is that much more expensive. |
Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Gith Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.26 06:49:00 -
[86]
Oh no, theres already 4 or 5 month old newbs in marauders and CNRs, lvl4 missions are very generous that way.
Selling SP means that everyone will be in a titan at the end of the week, whats the point in me playing? I'm not going to pay out the ass for videogame skills. So the game will just turn into a kiddie land. All the hardcore players will leave and then carebears will inherit the trash thats left.
Look at games like DNDO, people don't even play that, they literally just buy their way in and sit around.
Selling SP = cheating. Plain and simple. on your NES you use GameGenie to gain max level at the beginning of the game. What is the difference, really? And why would any REAL gamer want to play with a bunch of people running GameGenie?
~ ° ° ° ~
Non-Gameplay Enhancements! |
Ocih
Amarr
The Program
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.06.26 07:02:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ocih on 26/06/2010 07:04:39
Same thing applies. Noob in a Titan will glory moment with his DDD, then be sitting there for 10 minutes like a dog ****ing a football while Sov fleets hot dropping him. I do agree it will suck to see nub in an Avatar knowing you put 4 years in to yours but watching nub lose his titan because he didnt get 4 years to see what they can and cant do will be more than payback.
- Add on- I have the SP for an Avatar now. I've never been in one. The book is a small step in a long road for big ships. |
AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.26 07:29:00 -
[88]
Edited by: AterraX on 26/06/2010 07:29:25
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
I do not look like an idiot...
Yes you do...
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.06.26 11:32:00 -
[89]
I don't like the idea of buying skill points, but I do think something should be done about getting newer players up to snuff. (Patting them on the head and telling them to be a good little T1 frigate tackler, won't cut it.)
Right now a new player can look forward to sitting on his hands for a month or two training learning skills (and some basic combat/industry skills so he has *something* to do.) In about six months he might be able to slow-boat through some easier level four missions in an over-tanked gimp-mobile. Only after about a year of skill training will he be a reasonably competent pilot with some decent skills under his belt.
Best thing imo, given that skill points in EVE tend to become relatively less useful the more you have, would be to get rid of learning skills and extend the 100% skill point bonus up to 20m skill points. That way the above pilot would be (and feel) much more useful much sooner (and more likely to stick around longer than three/four months). |
Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.26 11:47:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Menellaix
Timecode Bazaar -
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=544711
Character Bazaar -
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=734105
Not a valid comparison.
Desirable characters still take a long time to train up and mature, the concept of 'buying' skillpoints would undermine that too, as anyone could take any character from zero to max in an instant.
In short:
'Buying' characters is akin to 'recycling' SP.
'Buying' SP would start a rapid, and self perpetuating cycle of SP devaluation that would very quickly break the game - Eve rewards patience, and the whole thing is structured as a persistent universe that entices people to come back year after year.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
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