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Buying skillpoints

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Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Clansworth I think a large part of it is game quality. The ability to buy skill points would result in inexperienced players piloting 'higher level' ships. This already is shown with the sale of characters, though to a lesser degree. The in-game character progression is slow paced to allow a player to grow WITH the character, and learn all the intricacies of eve-space along the way. Buying sp would only result in many 'buying' their way into the higher levels of gameplay, without the knowledge to properly use it, or really even get the full enjoyment out of it. Words of wisdom: Eve is just as much fun for a 2 week character running level ii's in a tech 1 frig as it is for a 2 year character running level IV's in a BS. That's the beauty of eve... It really is scaled quite well for early, AND late players. Those words of wisdom are so much more comforting when you're the 2 year old character. ... who, like everyone else, went through the process of being the 2 week old character and has the perspective to know what he is talking about. So every two year old character knows what he's talking about? What if I've been playing eve for over six years? Can I know what I'm talking about too? Apparently not... noob. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
B1FF	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:30:00 - [32] Originally by: Spankable Delight I realise that CCP are only talking about giving us SP as a gift for the extended downtime but having read a few of the other threads there seems to be a lot of resistance to the idea of them ever offering skillpoints for sale and I'm curious why. I'm a relatively new player myself and am not really sure I understand why this seems to be a hot topic, beyond the "we have been playing this game longer and don't want people paying to catch up." Thoughts? I think you need to learn how the skill system works. Catching up is a meaningless idea.
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Carebear Claire I too feel like trolling the forums. + LDSkill+hireLDS
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:34:00 - [34] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Ranger 1 ... who, like everyone else, went through the process of being the 2 week old character and has the perspective to know what he is talking about. So every two year old character knows what he's talking about? What if I've been playing eve for over six years? Can I know what I'm talking about too? Apparently not... noob. Then your previous statement carries no validity as it assigns authority to age, but your subsequent one invalidates it. -- On planets... nobody can see you macro mining...
PerrinAybarra The Meat Grinder	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:35:00 - [35] the answer is 42
Exploding Tukey Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:35:00 - [36] Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 24/06/2010 20:35:36 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Exploding Tukey How would you feel if suddenly CCP said that everyone can fly capital ships which did 100% dmg irrelevant to sig radius, speed, or angular velocity. would you be happy then any character coming out of trial got a free ship with the same skillset that you worked months to train for, months to farm money for the ship and fitting and then suddenly realized that all the work you did is useless. Good Fights! Sorry... wrong answer? PS, how would the situation you describe come about? I'm interested to know. It seems as though you are suggesting there might be a secret army of millionaires waiting to buy everybody a new character the moment CCP start selling Skillpoints. Just wondering... Are you kidding me? take a quick glance at the PLEX market and see how many people want to get an advantage in this game without playing. Originally by: PerrinAybarra the answer is 42 What is the question? <Signature Type="Clever" Width=100% Height=5 Edible="No" />
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:40:00 - [37] As Malcanis has said, I belive it is in his sig, [paraphrase]any changes in EVE that are made for the new player ends up overwhelmingly in the favor of more experianced players.[/paraphrase] Buying skill points will not take the advantage away from older pilots and if anything it will give older pilots more inept pilots flying big expensive ships to prey upon. With the current mechanics of isk buying and character sales I do not really think that it would benefit CCP finacially to start selling SP's. In other words I think that the system that is set up is the most profitable for CCP as is, but I could be wrong. Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Ranger 1 ... who, like everyone else, went through the process of being the 2 week old character and has the perspective to know what he is talking about. So every two year old character knows what he's talking about? What if I've been playing eve for over six years? Can I know what I'm talking about too? Apparently not... noob. Then your previous statement carries no validity as it assigns authority to age, but your subsequent one invalidates it. Only where you are concerned my little troll. There is always one kid in the class thats a little slower than the rest. By the way, nice selective quoting. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Clansworth Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Clansworth I think a large part of it is game quality. The ability to buy skill points would result in inexperienced players piloting 'higher level' ships. This already is shown with the sale of characters, though to a lesser degree. The in-game character progression is slow paced to allow a player to grow WITH the character, and learn all the intricacies of eve-space along the way. Buying sp would only result in many 'buying' their way into the higher levels of gameplay, without the knowledge to properly use it, or really even get the full enjoyment out of it. Words of wisdom: Eve is just as much fun for a 2 week character running level ii's in a tech 1 frig as it is for a 2 year character running level IV's in a BS. That's the beauty of eve... It really is scaled quite well for early, AND late players. Those words of wisdom are so much more comforting when you're the 2 year old character. Those words are coming from a 6 year player, who still routinely creates new characters to play the lower levels of gameplay, because they ARE just as much fun (if not more) than what I'm doing now in my veteran character. The rate of progression for early characters is a great deal faster than it is for higher skill point characters, bringing new experiences daily. At higher levels, the 'new experiences' come less often, and are most likely to be generated by friends/corpmates than from personal SP anyways. It is the week 2's DESIRE to fly the stuff the 2 year character has that builds the anticipation that makes that early progression FUN. Providing a quick-gain solution would NOT make gameplay any more exciting, but would instead seriously remove a large part of the fun that is eve. Intel/Nomad
RedLion Caldari State Constructions	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:46:00 - [40] i hope to buy skills - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Eternum Praetorian Method In Khaos	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:47:00 - [41] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 24/06/2010 20:49:43 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Buying implants or buying a character is buying SP. I await your disagreement. Buying implants allows you to get a better return in SP for your time investment. Buying characters still requires someone to invest time training them. Buying SP negates the requirement to invest time - it is fundamentally different to the two examples you gave. Now that you have disagreed, as I had anticipated, I will now reiterate my case and point in a manner that is more intellectual and well thought out. I have more Sp then you!!! Na-na-na-na-na!! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!! Commence forum Parrots P.S. Hahahahahahah!!!! \0/ 0// \\0
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:52:00 - [42] Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 24/06/2010 20:52:58 Originally by: Exploding Tukey Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 24/06/2010 20:35:36 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Originally by: Exploding Tukey How would you feel if suddenly CCP said that everyone can fly capital ships which did 100% dmg irrelevant to sig radius, speed, or angular velocity. would you be happy then any character coming out of trial got a free ship with the same skillset that you worked months to train for, months to farm money for the ship and fitting and then suddenly realized that all the work you did is useless. Good Fights! Sorry... wrong answer? PS, how would the situation you describe come about? I'm interested to know. It seems as though you are suggesting there might be a secret army of millionaires waiting to buy everybody a new character the moment CCP start selling Skillpoints. Just wondering... Are you kidding me? take a quick glance at the PLEX market and see how many people want to get an advantage in this game without playing. Well? How many is it? If you see the number 200 in the left hand column, that does not mean 200 plex's were purchased and created out of thin air in a microtransaction from CCP, who have no plans to do microtransactions. The number 200 could, and lets be clear, because there are a lot of people who refuse to read, could, I'm not saying IS, be the same PLEX bought and sold 200 times in trader attempts to make profits. Since it could be, it's reasonable to assume that some PLEXs are bought and sold more than once before they are used. There is currently no method I can think to ascertain the exact number. Anyway, is the number traded, enough RL dollars to supply, and I'm using your own words here, EVERYONE with enough SP and ISK as so they can all fly capital ships which did 100% dmg irrelevant to sig radius yada yada... everybody. everyone. That's everybody in eve. I asked you describe how it could come about by CCP selling ISK, you're saying 200PLEX per day per busy region covers that. My rough maths says it's 480 billion ISK a day. And with 300 thousand accounts to buy capitals for, I'm thinking we're going to be a little short. Especially as there is not current means of instantly creating minerals. So the more we look at your standard apocalyptic scenario, the more questions it raises. So anyway, I did as you asked, and I looked at the PLEX market. Now would you do as I asked and explain how the situation you described would come about through the sale of skillpoints? -- On planets... nobody can see you macro mining...
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Then your previous statement carries no validity as it assigns authority to age, but your subsequent one invalidates it. Only where you are concerned my little troll. There is always one kid in the class thats a little slower than the rest. By the way, nice selective quoting. Pyramid quoting is bad and against forum rules, but if you think I have pulled a fast one, feel free to point out what I CENSORED in a clear attempt to WIN. Also, can you raise your game a bit please? Trying to counter your assertion that there is only one stupid veteran in this game, me, is ridiculous and I won't indulge it. -- On planets... nobody can see you macro mining...
Obyrith	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Trespasser I can see this now, 4 month old noob buys 10,000$ in skillpoints and loses titan in low sec to gate guns because he doesnt know how to warp. Wait, we're still talking about why this is supposed to be a bad thing, right?
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:29:00 - [45] SOME people are resisting it, other people fully support it. I would love to see the ability to buy skillpoints. 1 million SP's for $15 would be just peachy. Anyone who wants to go nuts spending RL cash for pixels in the character sheet, only to lose ships later due to inexperience, knock yourselves out. I too don't really understand why people are against it. My thinking is: - Who cares what other people do? I'll never have the amounts of ISK that others have or can buy with RL cash, do I throw a hissy fit about that? No. - Let the newbies skill up if they want to; it's a 7-year-old game and there should be ways for newbies to catch up with the veterans in a game this old. - What the veterans get out of this seems to be either: a. More inexperienced targets in expensive ships to shoot at. b. Good fights vs. equally-skilltrained enemies in comparable/competitive ships. If they allow this, the demand for T2 mods and ships will jump up, creating a nice trading opportunity too.
jagoff Cosmic Cakes	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:39:00 - [46] what newbs don't realize is if they allow you to buy skills, all the pilots that you are trying to catch up to will just buy the same amount of skills that you are buying, thus never closing the gap. it's pointless.
Ori Blake	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:40:00 - [47] Edited by: Ori Blake on 24/06/2010 21:45:50 Because paying for advantage is bad enough as it is with alt accounts, ISK, and character selling. Edit: And can people please shut the hell about not catching up? You want to fly a BS or BC decently you are spending a lot of time catching up so you can be more than a lolpunisher in a fleet fight. Catching up for newbies does exist in EvE, and it's the same amount of time it takes to cap a toon to run endgame in other games. That's how us newbies feel about catching up.
Esharan Caldari	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:44:00 - [48] If they make skill points purchasable - I am quiting eve, that is the weakest sauce ever. Just get rid of learning skills, let us re-apply w/e points we have in that area elsewhere, increase base attributes and increase price of implants or something.
HenkieBoy Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:49:00 - [49] Edited by: HenkieBoy on 24/06/2010 21:50:00 Even for vets like me its appealing. I have been skilling for industrial stuff and like to pvp more with this character. Instead of waiting this would give me an option to get into other ships which I already fly with my other pvp char. Basicly it's the same when players start buying characters from others but this time the money flows to CCP pockets just like the whole 30-pilot licence thingy. I don't see the noob problem. Everyone who played EVE for like 6 months know how the game works, how to fly, warp, jump etc.. but there will be always a first time when you board a new type ship. You need to get used to it.. even if you played 5 years EVE. For example, I never have flown dictors so if I start flying one I will make mistakes in the beginning. There is one big problem though I can think of. I worked hard to mine my first BS (Mealstrom) and took some time to be able to fly it. And I lost it 2 weeks after I got it . The trip for getting the isk, skilling for it would go away. Already people sell gametime for isk which removes the labor for getting the ship. But introducing paid skillpoints would also remove the other part of the trip, training for it. If CCP would ask me I would advice against it. EVE would become one of those MMO's you play for 6 months and move on to the next MMO.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:59:00 - [50] PLEX sales are as close as I or anyone with an ounce of sense wants to see EVE getting to a cash shop game. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.

Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:10:00 - [51] Edited by: Merouk Baas on 24/06/2010 22:12:26 Originally by: HenkieBoy EVE would become one of those MMO's you play for 6 months and move on to the next MMO. I think people already do that, given CCP's cycle of expansions and what they put in each. Concurrent-online-player numbers seem to jump after each expansion is released, then they taper off some (especially for the last two expansions). But yes, allowing players to buy skillpoints would definitely negate the need to keep a subscription active just to keep the skill-training going. Although, if players cancel their subscription for 6 months and then reactivate and buy 6-months of points once CCP releases an expansion, they get the same amount of money. In any case, what I quoted also means that casuals who only play MMO's for 4-6 months at a time on might give EVE a try. And yes, those who play would be playing this game because they want to (that is, based on its merits and how good a game it is), rather than because they're addicted to skill-training. So CCP would have to step up their quality quite a bit. Which, I don't think they're able to, so I doubt they're going to offer this after all. Easier to keeps us addicted and paying, than to have to WORK at improving the game so we stay and play.
Leneerra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:11:00 - [52] I would not mind if they would allow you to spend a plex to train a second char on the same account for a month. Actually, I think that would be a marvelous addition. It would probably increase demand for plex without giving advantages that are not already obtainable by another means. But I am against spending a plex to increase the training speed of a char that is already in training. it would instantly devaluate eve as a game, because it would remove all in game consequences for skill training choices. (and crash the char market) I think ccp only allows char transfers because it is impossible to effectively prevent char sales. Much like I estimate their stance on buying isk itself to be.
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:35:00 - [53] ITT: Bitter vets contradict themselves by saying new players with loads of ISK and skill points would just make silly KMs in one breath. While saying it is unfair that new players can catch up to them in another.
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:40:00 - [54] Originally by: James Tritanius ITT: Bitter vets contradict themselves by saying new players with loads of ISK and skill points would just make silly KMs in one breath. While saying it is unfair that new players can catch up to them in another. Maybe it is the very fact that "bitter vets" have invested so much of their time in to the game that makes them feel the need to speak against ideas which would ruin the game? The problem isn't bitter vets, it is that people want to be like them. Signature removed, please only use English on the forums. Zymurgist Okay sweet-cheeks xxx. Avon
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Avon Originally by: James Tritanius ITT: Bitter vets contradict themselves by saying new players with loads of ISK and skill points would just make silly KMs in one breath. While saying it is unfair that new players can catch up to them in another. Maybe it is the very fact that "bitter vets" have invested so much of their time in to the game that makes them feel the need to speak against ideas which would ruin the game? The problem isn't bitter vets, it is that people want to be like them. Maybe I was only addressing the implicit contradictions in their arguments and not their position?
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:53:00 - [56] I'd rather put some money into CCP's pocket and upgrade my own character than give some other chump isk for his character with wasted sp, homoerotic portrait and silly name.
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Avon Originally by: James Tritanius ITT: Bitter vets contradict themselves by saying new players with loads of ISK and skill points would just make silly KMs in one breath. While saying it is unfair that new players can catch up to them in another. Maybe it is the very fact that "bitter vets" have invested so much of their time in to the game that makes them feel the need to speak against ideas which would ruin the game? The problem isn't bitter vets, it is that people want to be like them. Ruin I tell you... RUIN. RUIN. Foresooth it is here written ruin. And thus ruin is the only outcome. Dare not ye ask why as to ruin, accepteth thy judgement. Adapteth or Die is an instruction to thy newbies, not a mantra for all. -- On planets... nobody can see you macro mining...
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:56:00 - [58] If the ability to buy SP is added, whether with real money or ISK, I'll be moving on to other games. The training model in EVE is one of the things that makes it unique among MMOs and CCP would be insane to start selling SP. It'd kill the game overnight. Blog and Podcast - Twitter: DeclareWar
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.24 23:03:00 - [59] Originally by: Jimer Lins If the ability to buy SP is added, whether with real money or ISK, I'll be moving on to other games. The training model in EVE is one of the things that makes it unique among MMOs and CCP would be insane to start selling SP. It'd kill the game overnight. Overnight you say..... I do like hysterical propaganda as much as the next guy... but how do you think it will end overnight? And since the earth is round, who's overnight are we talking about here? American Daylight Walking Millionaires buying up SP real estate in bulk as to kill Eve for Asians overnight? Or Australian millionaires so the europeans wake up to bleak wastelands? Can you be more specific as to how this will occur? -- On planets... nobody can see you macro mining...
offcopy Caldari OffBeat Creations	Posted - 2010.06.24 23:21:00 - [60] ok i am not for buying sp. with that said how would you buy it i would see it like buy a gtc(60d) ok lets say for now that the avg sp/ph is 2200 that mean 3.1m for 60d worth of play aprox and would cost $35 usd now when i was working i was able to buy 12x60 gtc a month meaning i could get 37.2m extra sp a month and for 11 month i would get 409.2m sp 12th month christmas still have to buy gifts. meaning in a year i could almost max out every skill in the game. where as someone that was unemployed or low paid would have to train 11 years to get the same sp sure thats fair to everyone.



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