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100% skill training bonus is utter **** CCP

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Zergliing	Posted - 2010.07.01 18:29:00 - [1] I recently pick up eve off of steam. I read around these forums, to find out how to improve my character. Alot of people said to use eve-mon, and plan for what I want to do. So put in a plan to use the tempest, with large guns and drones and some other things. The plan according to eft was to take 135 days or so, but it said i could speed up the training to 70-something days with these learning skills, so i told evemon to add them. But for them to be effective i need to do them first. So if i were to train this plan all of my 'training bonus' would go to these learning skills, and if i were to leave out the learning skills it would take almost twice as long to get where i want to be. SO really it seems that the 100% bonus doesnt help you get into ships at all, its there so i can train these goddamn learning skills for 2-3 weeks (well half that with this stupid 'bonus'). So my first 2 weeks in game I can train a few skills fast and then have to wait twice as long to get into what i want, or I can just sit on my hands for 2 weeks while my traning speed gets up to 100%. So IMO the 'training bonus' is there so we can train the learning skills, so after the 'bonus' is up we can train at normal speed SO its not a bonus, it just lets you train at your normal speed as if you already had trained the learning skills, so you can train the learning skills at a somewhat faster pace. Which really doent help much, as your first 2 weeks you are left sitting on your hands. I petitioned CCP about this, and they suggested I train ship skills or something. Which was just insulting. I pay for time in this game, why would I want to waste my paid for time training things twice as slow, I mean its good for ccp if i train ships and dont do learning, i effectively have to pay double for each skill I train. If i do learning I get to sit on my hands and do almost nothing for 2 weeks. Either way CCP wins, and I lose. So just as a warining to any new player: "The 100% bonus is NOT a bonus, you start the game training at 50% speed, which CCP make 100% until you can get your character to train at its full speed, that means a full two weeks of sitting on your hands while paying CCP"
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.01 18:38:00 - [2] How many SP does it take to train basics to 4, advanced to 3? (Hint: less than 1.6M - enough less that you can skill up to fly a rifter well enough to start making ISK...) Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Talonyc a'Tsuj	Posted - 2010.07.01 18:38:00 - [3] Edited by: Talonyc a''Tsuj on 01/07/2010 18:38:37 Unfortunately there's little could be done now, I guess. I also consider the Learning skills serious deterrents.
Jasdemi Caldari Caldari Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.07.01 18:41:00 - [4] Keep subscribing, login every few days to update your learning skills, come play after 2 months or so. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Holy Veldspar - where cool kids gather. REMOVE LEARNINGS, FFS!
Zergliing	Posted - 2010.07.01 18:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Malcanis How many SP does it take to train basics to 4, advanced to 3? (Hint: less than 1.6M - enough less that you can skill up to fly a rifter well enough to start making ISK...) It would probably take a week, but only an idiot would waste their time training skills at a slower speed, and even if you spent your first days towards ship stuff the learning skills would just be a speed bump to hit later, that you have to hit before your 'training bonus' ends. Either way you have a week or so worth of time in your first month where you have to dedicate the time to goddamn learning skills. Thats a week of game time ive paid for that Im forced to waste, and really who the ** is going to train everything at base or near base attribs after the 'bonus' ends. Nobody. The learning skills are forced down our throats, and CCP doesn't give a if we have to wait or not, they already have our money so they dont give a **. You would think they would want new players to get into the game quickly, and stay in for the long term. But they setup a huge speedbump, which any new player has to go over, or just leave. But CCP doesn't care either way they got your money for at least a month
Zergliing	Posted - 2010.07.01 18:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Talonyc a'Tsuj Edited by: Talonyc a''Tsuj on 01/07/2010 18:38:37 Unfortunately there's little could be done now, I guess. I also consider the Learning skills serious deterrents. Little that can be done? More like little that CCP can be **ed to do. Why cant they just give us the skills at the start? I know they can do it because my toon started with a few skills, but they cant be ed. They could also stop lying about the skill 'bonus' and just put it plainly "Players starting the game will get x amount of normal speed training time to train the l;earning skills so they can train at normal speed" or something. I mean its more insulting to hear them call it a bonus, when you know that 'bonus' speed is just the regualr speed with learning skills trained. There alot that CCP can do, and can do easily. And the problem just speaks of laziness on CCP part to fix the issue, I mean who cares about 'n00bs' right? We will just add some more shiny stuff to keep them coming, they are paying us anyways right? If they get **ed off give them a special shuttle or something, that will make them stfu.
Glyph Stex	Posted - 2010.07.01 19:21:00 - [7] Edited by: Glyph Stex on 01/07/2010 19:21:42 To OP. Dude, stop ***ing. Eve-online is Eve-online. Take it or leave it. You paid what? 1.99 for the game account and a month of playtime? That's what I did on Steam. Even if you paid the normal 19.99, the game has things to keep you entertained until your learning skills are done. I've been playing my Steam bought account for 3 days and I've got half of them to level 3 or 4. Edit: Them as in my learning skills. Seriously. Stop **ting. ~Glyph
DoAe Caldari Swedish Aerospace Inc	Posted - 2010.07.01 19:34:00 - [8] You are missing something in your hate-speach towards ccp =P The 100% bonus is for 1.6 mil sp. The learning skills if you skip charisma will give your char a total around 1.7 mil sp. This takes with 100% bonus around a lot less then 2 weeks to train. You just have to fly some lvl 1 mission to earn the more expensive skill books (or ask friend to buy them for you) CCP gives you a free trial period for 2 weeks, in wich, all the learning skills can be trained if u put some effort in to it. What ccp really is doing, if you look at it, is letting you train the learning skills during a free period of time. So when the time comes for you to start paying for your account you are done with the learning skills and can start going off in whatever branch you want. So don't go around saying that CCP are stealing ur money for the first 2 weeks when they have given you a choice to use the trial period. But i can agree with you to this: That if the trial is somewhat only for the learning skills then they could just skip the learning skills and set all attributes to a higher base (or lower the skills needed sp / level) Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Party Scout	Posted - 2010.07.01 19:50:00 - [9] Yes, learning skills suck, and they are a terrible deterrent to new players. Hope CCP does something about this, and better sooner than later.
ROXGenghis	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:01:00 - [10] Troll successful.

Sable Moran Gallente Moran Light Industries	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:16:00 - [11] I was about to write a post to explain how we have ended in the current model of character creation and early development and how to use the 100% bonus system wisely and everything. But then I realised that I can sum all that up with one easily remembered phrase: Don't never ever let the skill points come between you and the fun. Ever. There, problem solved. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Zergliing	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Sable Moran I was about to write a post to explain how we have ended in the current model of character creation and early development and how to use the 100% bonus system wisely and everything. But then I realised that I can sum all that up with one easily remembered phrase: Don't never ever let the skill points come between you and the fun. Ever. There, problem solved. I havent found anything like I really like yet, but I love getting into new ships, and if new toys are your fun then you are limited by SP, and training skills slower means fewer toys that I can fly. So skills points are the barrier between me and the 'fun'.
Messoroz	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Sable Moran I was about to write a post to explain how we have ended in the current model of character creation and early development and how to use the 100% bonus system wisely and everything. But then I realised that I can sum all that up with one easily remembered phrase: Don't never ever let the skill points come between you and the fun. Ever. There, problem solved. The reason we are here now is because people ***** too much.
Luru Parz Dark Guard Corp	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Party Scout Yes, learning skills suck, and they are a terrible deterrent to new players. Hope CCP does something about this, and better sooner than later. Guess what, they're not compulsory. If you don't want to train them don't.
Zergliing	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Luru Parz Originally by: Party Scout Yes, learning skills suck, and they are a terrible deterrent to new players. Hope CCP does something about this, and better sooner than later. Guess what, they're not compulsory. If you don't want to train them don't. They are compulsory, unless you have some kind of mental deficiency, Seriously there is too much waiting in this game as it is, why would you want to force yourself to have to wait even longer to be able to do anything.
Brutus Armani Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:45:00 - [16] Cheese with your whine?
JTDaBeast	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:57:00 - [17] Training at Normal Speed? That's funny. IMO there is no "normal speed". It's an RPG, everyone is different and will learn at his/her own speed as they see fit. It think you're being a bit dramatic (understatement). If you don't want to waste a whole lot of time with learning skills. . . get them to 4/3 and forget about them. I've been playing for just about 3 months now. . . and though I can't T2 the ship I'm piloting. . . . I'm still having fun. If you're not "having fun", then play another game. Sorry bro.
Sable Moran Gallente Moran Light Industries	Posted - 2010.07.01 20:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Zergliing Originally by: Luru Parz Originally by: Party Scout Yes, learning skills suck, and they are a terrible deterrent to new players. Hope CCP does something about this, and better sooner than later. Guess what, they're not compulsory. If you don't want to train them don't. They are compulsory, unless you have some kind of mental deficiency, Seriously there is too much waiting in this game as it is, why would you want to force yourself to have to wait even longer to be able to do anything. LulZ? Perhaps it's time for you to consider the fact that eve just might not be the game for you and move on? Why cause yourself more mental anguish when there is an easy solution to the problem? ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Sable Moran Gallente Moran Light Industries	Posted - 2010.07.01 21:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Sable Moran on 01/07/2010 21:11:46 Originally by: Zergliing Originally by: Sable Moran I was about to write a post to explain how we have ended in the current model of character creation and early development and how to use the 100% bonus system wisely and everything. But then I realised that I can sum all that up with one easily remembered phrase: Don't never ever let the skill points come between you and the fun. Ever. There, problem solved. I havent found anything like I really like yet, but I love getting into new ships, and if new toys are your fun then you are limited by SP, and training skills slower means fewer toys that I can fly. So skills points are the barrier between me and the 'fun'. OK, let's try to be a bit more constructive here. I can understand the allure of new shiny, I do indulge on it myself now and again. But that wears out quick, then you'll want new shiny and you're in an endless loop. You better break out now while you still can. I suggest you try finding out what you can do with the stuff you all ready have the skills for. One big step towards that is joining a corp. Don't know which one? Just shop around. Or if that isn't for you try Eve University or maybe Agony. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Party Scout	Posted - 2010.07.01 22:19:00 - [20] So, train what you want to train at really slow speed because your stats suck, or train for 2 months or so to get your stats up to spec so you can train what you want at reasonable speed. Choose between getting stuff really slow, or get nothing for a long time so you can then get your stuff faster... That is not a choice that new players should be forced to make. Say what you want, but no, that is not the way to design a game. And yes, I have 5-4 on my training skills and learning to 5, and I still feel for the new players. I cannot find it in my heart to tell them to "suck it up". Why? Because I remember the boring grind it was training for those learning skills and being there able to do squat while those things get trained. Bad game mechanic is bad.

Gerrards	Posted - 2010.07.01 22:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Zergliing I petitioned CCP about this
Vynel Mortes	Posted - 2010.07.01 22:43:00 - [22] Edited by: Vynel Mortes on 01/07/2010 22:44:03 So by learning the learning skills to the appropraite level you end up saving half the time on the skills you want to learn. Wow that sounds like an excellent use of points in the early stages. 50-100% return on your time investiment the only thing you can't grind in eve. So what's the issue?
Vargas Blackburn	Posted - 2010.07.02 00:24:00 - [23] I do have to agree with the OP to a certain extent. According to EveMon, it's going to take around ~40 days for me to get all the learning skills up to 5/4. To a newer player, this is quite the deterrent. I tried this game out last year and quit once I started doing the calculations - I simply found another game to play, got addicted and started wondering why I should pay $15 a month to just train useless, uninteresting skills for the first 2 months or so. The only reason I am putting up with it this time around is a few of my family members are playing...the monotony is more bearable that way I guess. CCP would benefit from removing the learning skills and just adding +10 to all attributes. Those that already trained these skills could get refunded. This would make 90% of the playerbase, both old and new, happy. The other 10% that make up most MMORPGS will complain about any change regardless of whether it benefits them or not. And yes, not deterring newer players is the only way an MMORPG can grow. More new players = more subscriptions = more content for everyone that's playing. I am not saying change the game at all - just the learning skills.
Looby Loo	Posted - 2010.07.02 02:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Zergliing Originally by: Sable Moran I was about to write a post to explain how we have ended in the current model of character creation and early development and how to use the 100% bonus system wisely and everything. But then I realised that I can sum all that up with one easily remembered phrase: Don't never ever let the skill points come between you and the fun. Ever. There, problem solved. I havent found anything like I really like yet, but I love getting into new ships, and if new toys are your fun then you are limited by SP, and training skills slower means fewer toys that I can fly. So skills points are the barrier between me and the 'fun'. Most of us had to grind all that crap without the 100% speed bonus so it really is a bonus. Also I noticed the other night that I still don't have learning 4 on a 30mill SP char. Seeing as it will only actually save me 9 hours on a 50 day plan I'm not that fussed. Your battleship plan will need a neural remap halfway through to pick up the necessary support skills anyway. Spend the first couple of weeks training things that mean you can get out and have fun, then set the plan and do the learning skills it advises.
Hack Harrison Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.02 03:30:00 - [25] Waaaahhh... 1) You should be using the time early on to LEARN about Eve - so you know how to play the game 2) You can train the learning skill and rank 1s to 4, the rank 3s to 3 and cybernetics so you can get an implant set in your head and still have 100% bonus left for some other stuff. It's up to you if you want to push your SP per hour over 2000 (assuming an even remap) or not. You trade off something better now for better long term. 3) How about you plan to use something a bit smaller and work your way up. I would bet that just because evemon says you can use the ship and modules you selected, you won't be able to fly it anyway due to fitting requirements (CPU/PG) and cap stability issues anyway!!!
Baneken Gallente Aseveljet	Posted - 2010.07.02 05:59:00 - [26] Whne I started 3 or was it 4 years ago (with trinity anyway) all we had was 800k of skills picked by race, bloodline and profession (gallente gallente, immigrant, black ops in my case) and none of this 100% speed and remapping crap and attributed had to be decided on the spot when you made the character. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
XIII'th	Posted - 2010.07.02 06:28:00 - [27] It's not 100% bonus what is broken, whole conception of learning skill stinks.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.02 06:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Zergliing Originally by: Malcanis How many SP does it take to train basics to 4, advanced to 3? (Hint: less than 1.6M - enough less that you can skill up to fly a rifter well enough to start making ISK...) It would probably take a week, but only an idiot would waste their time training skills at a slower speed, and even if you spent your first days towards ship stuff the learning skills would just be a speed bump to hit later, that you have to hit before your 'training bonus' ends. Well I guess one benefit of being an idiot is that you get to have fun right away, instead of being furiously angry like you. The idiots spend, say, 50% of their training time on learning skills and 50% on other stuff. After a week, they're learning at a decent rate, and also making ISK, gaining experience, making friends, acquiring assets, improving their game knowledge and most importantly enjoying themselves - all of which are far more important than that last 5 or 10% training rate. Meanwhile the non-idiots like you sit in a station, hugging the few percent more total SP you get from your "efficient" skillplan and seething in impotent fury as the "idiots" leave you ever further behind in game progress. Look like the idiot filter is working well and you're on the wrong side of it, mi amigo. It's probably for the best - someone like you is going to have it even rougher when you actually undock. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Creiter	Posted - 2010.07.02 07:13:00 - [29] I am currently on the fence of canceling this alt account or not. EVE has a huge time investment, which is fine. But to actually play the game on a new account while I buckle down and let the main finish at least another 4-5 months of basic stuff (about to finish the final capacitor skill then hull and back to shield followed by 1.5 months of gun stuff ), I need to invest alot of time retraining basic stuff like +cap/PG/CPU/navigation/tank all over again on the alt account (which I wanted to divert my attention). It is boring the first time, another 3 months of logging in to add +targeting after AB 5, then a few more days for social 5, and then a week vaction to finish cap recharge with an extended 1.5 weeks for +cap size. EVE has like 30 years of worth of skills, but even looking at the first six months of that for basic stuff that affect any ship is just burning me out (not that all skills to 5 was the goal ). I hope CCP sees the light and actually sales SP straight up with the next Power of Two to be "New account, 3 months sub with 3 months worth SP to allocate) (no six month duration) instead of getting an extra 3 free months worth of SP training for the price of 3 months (current form of Power of 2). Basicly 6 months squeezed into 3, still paying the same amount without the extra long duration of being bored on the main and alt account, I might actually keep a second account going if I wasn't so burned out with the basics .
Scyyy	Posted - 2010.07.02 07:30:00 - [30] I really don't understand how people can be so angry about this. Yes they are important to train early on but since the initial bonus is so small there is no problem with putting some skills in between each level and you maybe lose half a day to a day and are able to fly a cruiser well within the first week and able to do level 2 missions while waiting for the last of the learning skills to train and actually gaining standing and isk, as opposed to sitting in the station watching your skills train for a month and end up being a day or two ahead in skills but a month behind in everything else.

RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.07.02 07:34:00 - [31] I'll bite ... you wont be making any money before you get into a tempest basic add tempest to evemon and some basic certificates 133days down to 76 with learnings 25mil of skill books and as you will have not done any missions in that time as yoou cannot fly anything else the you will loose the tempest about 2 mins after your 1st mission. so instead of cheesing at ccp why do't you play the game, sure add the learning s but do those while you sleep, train some levels of others while you play, [in fact the leanings suggested will only take 6 days - or is that 3 with double speed] ... in fact pfft 2 of the noobs I introduced are having a great time , flying and killing stuff, I've shown them evemon but they cannot use it yet as their api's are not available, but in general they semm more than happy playing with what they've found in the last 2 days ... --
Ay'a	Posted - 2010.07.02 09:57:00 - [32] learnings 4/3 Hull Upgrades 5 Drones 5 Scout Drone Op 5 Learnings 5/4 or whatever Profit.
Kal Shakai Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2010.07.02 10:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Zergliing So put in a plan to use the tempest Here is the first mistake. I have 72M sp and I almost never fly anything bigger than a BC. If I had a dime for every new player that wanted to get in a BS right away... You should be more concerned with shorter term goals like finding the right corp and being effective in frigate size ships. The smaller ones are usually more fun anyway. Learning skills may suck. However, they sure suck a whole lot less than when you needed level 5 to get the advanced learning skills. And this double training speed thing is just another bonus I wish I had when I was new.
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2010.07.02 10:52:00 - [34] When I was a newbie, I solved the problem by training the learnings to 4, which doesnt take that long, then squeezed in some basic skills for a frigate, then alternated between skilling the advanced to 4 and other skills like salvaging- gave me something to do and learn the game while wait for the skills. This was pretty inefficient in retrospect but I had fun and that is what counts. I am still rolling with only 4/4 learnings so I skill slower than most other players but I could fly the shiny stuff faster and have fun earlier. That was the trade off which I was willing to take. After a while, it doesn't matter that much if you have to wait a day or two longer for a skill, not for me at least. Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator
David88x77 Galactic Express	Posted - 2010.07.02 23:58:00 - [35] The 100% bonus to learning speed for 1.6 mil sp is new actually. When I started you got 800k sp with a little bit in learning, and then had to train learning skills at a slow speed. By the way, as soon as you get lvl 1 learning skills to 4 and lvl 2 learning skills to 3(this is only a few hundred thousand skill points in you are training at almost full speed.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2010.07.03 03:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Baneken Whne I started 3 or was it 4 years ago (with trinity anyway) all we had was 800k of skills picked by race, bloodline and profession (gallente gallente, immigrant, black ops in my case) and none of this 100% speed and remapping crap and attributed had to be decided on the spot when you made the character. And before that, advanced learning skills required basic learnings to 5. There's no way I would voluntarily have Empathy 5 and Presence 3 when Empathy 4/Presence 4 gives exactly the same bonus. And I doubt I'm the only one laid out exactly that way. So woot. Now you can pick all the attributes you want, you pick the skills you want from the get go, you're given items and skills during newb arcs at a frankly astonishing rate, and you get a double training speed period. Surely you can think of a way to use all that to your advantage?
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.03 04:29:00 - [37] I sometimes wonder after reading posts like the OP's if I'm the only one that actually plays EVE rather than trying to game it (i.e. min/max training). Really, if you are training learning skills from day one or spinning in a station until then, you are either an alt or doing it wrong. I should know, as I have four accounts now. I have about 26.5 million SP now, and I still don't have enough SP for what I want, and I know I never will. But you see, I also know that it will never stop me from still doing lots of stuff and having fun. Stop playing with the skill queue and start playing EVE.
FireT Gallente Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Crimson Legion	Posted - 2010.07.03 12:07:00 - [38] World of Whinecraft is that way ---------------> Honestly loltroll
Kaspar Zenkk Caldari Crimson Umbra	Posted - 2010.07.03 16:24:00 - [39] As an older player, I think the current system is excellent... any alt you need can be trained up to usefullness in about 2 weeks... research, hauler, salvage, planeteer, marketeer and all without interfering with your training plan... <grumble> Now in the old days when basic learnings had to go to 5 and we started with a pitance of skills, scrambled atts and the starter missions didn't pay very well... </grumble>
Martin Lefouret Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.03 21:30:00 - [40] When i first started, i got lucky on the things i chose when creating ym character, i started with a whopping 80k sp(wich was 50k moer then what people got on average) and didn't have a training bonus. CCp already admitted on several occasions that they regret ever creating them. I would be happy if they add +11 to all atributes and i can put those skill points into something else. Don't just learn now all the learning skill at once. if you play for a long time it realy doesn't matter that a you're skill plan will finish in 135 instaed of 136(just an example). train what you need to do things in between learning skill, if you need 1 to use a module train the skill to l1, then retunr to the learning skills, it will tkae you're plan a few days longer then what evemon sais, but you can get into the game faster and get somehitng you're gonna need, expirience

Bernard Schuyler	Posted - 2010.07.04 19:32:00 - [41] Personally I think the real tragedy is letting new players have access to EveMon. What is the point of creating a skill plan for T2 fitted Battleships when you are in the trial period? You wouldn't know what to do with one anyway. Maybe its just the general MMO mentality of games like WoW or EverQuest where it was believed that game really "starts" when you reach max level. In Eve the game is equally enjoyable and playable at ALL points that you are playing it.
Svetdana	Posted - 2010.07.04 23:25:00 - [42] The best way to work around this, is to use your alternate slots. Make your 1st char the way you like, ignore the learning skills, get em doing lvl 2 missions, or mining or whatever you want to do. When ready, stop training, and make your "main". while training up your "Main"'s learning skills, play your 1st pilot. When ready, switch! It is not ideal, but it is what I eventually figured out to work best. If you have any support from corp / friends, your 1st character could easily be a tackler / ECM PVP'r. You might actually play that pilot more than just while waiting for your main's learning skills.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.07.05 02:25:00 - [43] Originally by: RaTTuS you wont be making any money before you get into a tempest Confirming that this is indeed a very valid assumption to base your analysis on.
Kesta Valkorin Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.07.05 02:55:00 - [44] On my other character I had basic learnings at 4, advanced learnings at 3, most gunnery and drone support skills at 3, cap skills at 4, engineering and electronics 4 and skills to use almost any module I wanted including a few T2 ones. I could also fly destroyers, industrials, cruisers and battlecruisers. I could use large guns too, although I ran out of bonus before I could train battleships to put them on. 1.6 million is plenty.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.07.05 06:02:00 - [45] My take: Forget the first few weeks and the learning skills, those are nothing more than a preview of what will likely be your entire (brief) Eve experience. It is going to take you somewhere around ten months to a year to even begin to compete, and even then you will still be at a considerable disadvantage. It sucks. This could be a really cool game. But there it is.
Jalabaster	Posted - 2010.07.05 11:13:00 - [46] I'm new too, here's my view: So let's say you log in tomorrow and you have the skills to fly the ship that you want to fly. You still don't have the ISK to buy the ship, and you don't have the ISK to fit the ship. And you certainly don't have the ISK to fit the ship for pvp, or to replace the ship once you lose it PVPing (which would probably come rather swiftly) And most importantly, you sitting at your keyboard don't "know" how to fly the ship properly. The ship you want to be in should be your long term goal. That's great, you know what ship you want to be flying 4 months from now - you're a step ahead of most rookies. Now you just need to see what other ships your training plan will allow you to fly while working towards that goal. Practice using smaller ships so that when you do get blown to pieces, it doesn't cost much to replace your losses and get back out there. Have some patience man. Figure out a short term and medium term goal that fits within your longterm dreams.
Jalabaster	Posted - 2010.07.05 11:23:00 - [47] PS: If you decide to quit, you should sell me your Primae.
Maximillian Dragonard	Posted - 2010.07.05 11:47:00 - [48] Edited by: Maximillian Dragonard on 05/07/2010 11:47:20 This need for instant gratification is starting to wear thin. What the hell ever happened to working towards a goal? Give a poor man a million dollars, and he'll end up poor again. Teach a poor man to earn a million dollars, and he'll always be rich (until the govt. comes along).
Macvombat	Posted - 2010.07.05 16:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Zergliing I havent found anything like I really like yet, but I love getting into new ships, and if new toys are your fun then you are limited by SP, and training skills slower means fewer toys that I can fly. So skills points are the barrier between me and the 'fun'. If new ships is the only fun part in eve for you, then eve is not for you. After battlecruisers (perhaps battleships if your attentionspan is that long) there's literally (mostly) months between new ships. there are tons of other skills that you need to train to make these new toys usefull, dont think for a minute that you can efficiently pilot a ship just by having the prerequisites for said ship. P.S - ranting in posts make people aggrovated and results in slightly arrogant answers as the above posted /arrogance The Mac has arrived
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.05 21:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Macvombat Originally by: Zergliing I havent found anything like I really like yet, but I love getting into new ships, and if new toys are your fun then you are limited by SP, and training skills slower means fewer toys that I can fly. So skills points are the barrier between me and the 'fun'. If new ships is the only fun part in eve for you, then eve is not for you. After battlecruisers (perhaps battleships if your attentionspan is that long) there's literally (mostly) months between new ships. there are tons of other skills that you need to train to make these new toys usefull, dont think for a minute that you can efficiently pilot a ship just by having the prerequisites for said ship. P.S - ranting in posts make people aggrovated and results in slightly arrogant answers as the above posted /arrogance I get a bunch of new ships every few weeks or so. Capital ships are for suckers. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.

Kharylien Gallente Masked Rider Project	Posted - 2010.07.05 23:55:00 - [51] Originally by: OT Smithers My take: Forget the first few weeks and the learning skills, those are nothing more than a preview of what will likely be your entire (brief) Eve experience. It is going to take you somewhere around ten months to a year to even begin to compete, and even then you will still be at a considerable disadvantage. It sucks. This could be a really cool game. But there it is. Clearly I'm doing it wrong. I've been playing this game for less than six months, and I was having fun from day 1, and still am. I have plenty of isk for my own needs, and I'm an efficient manufacturer with a researched BPO for every ship I want to fly, so I'm pretty set for affordable PvP too. I thought this was a really cool game. Guess I was wrong oh wait, clearly I'm just better at EVE than you are.
Solistalia	Posted - 2010.07.06 05:45:00 - [52] I like the system as it stands. I was chomping at the bit to find a game that gives me something to do for longer than two months (Yes, I did the nearest thing to beating an MMO in 2months in the last 5 MMOs....I became known on my server as a prick). To become known in EVE...Its going to take me AT LEAST 6months and thats with considerable help and some Corp friends to pvp alongside of. I am sick and tired of instant gratification games. Hello EVE, My name is Jackass #...what number would I be? O_o Anyways, how are you, I subbed on the 1st of July and I had fun about 2hrs later after reading some tutorials and forum information to figure things out (a bit >_> so much to learn...brain hurt >_< ). Anyways....Have fun dude/dudette/unisex. Don't bust your balls leveling learning to 5/5 or 4/3 straight up...LEARN the GAME by PLAYING the GAME. Not jerking off in a hanger over a plan that lets you fly what you think is badass....and can get shotdown/popped/blownup/creamed/owned/schooled by a Frigate with some jammers onboard :) P.S. In two or three months when you have your tempest...PM me on the forums when you go low-sec/0.0 so I can frigate smash you ..Its a glorious day when I make someone cry over a game or get hate mail in game. Don't disappoint me :)
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.06 09:50:00 - [53] Originally by: OT Smithers My take: Forget the first few weeks and the learning skills, those are nothing more than a preview of what will likely be your entire (brief) Eve experience. It is going to take you somewhere around ten months to a year to even begin to compete, and even then you will still be at a considerable disadvantage. It sucks. This could be a really cool game. But there it is. Who are you competing against? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Qalix	Posted - 2010.07.06 13:41:00 - [54] Here's a tip: stop relying solely on what evemon gives you and start thinking for yourself. If you actually compare the time savings of the low level learning skills vs just training up for whatever basic profession you want to do, its not that much. Its only if you KEEP playing and training that it adds up. FYI if you don't have the patience for learning skills, EVE is not for you.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.07.06 13:49:00 - [55] I'll save you over a years worth of gameplay with this piece of advice: Dont play EVE with the intention of making as much isk as you can. Find what you enjoy and do that regardless. If you turn EVE into a struggle of maximum SP learning and isk grinding you will never enjoy yourself. While as a zero SP character the 'unfairnesss' of it all, having to learn at a slower rate then other pilots, may seem annoying. Remember that these pilots went through the same things that you are doing right now. In fact, as a beginner pilot you've never had it so easy. Chill, take it all in at your own pace, and before you decide to go straight for a Battleship, i advise trying to get comfortable in a frigate first, then a cruiser, and then your Battleship. Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
Orewell Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.06 15:57:00 - [56] I think people forget that this IS an MMORPG. Look at a long list of them, no matter what one you get into, you start out as a noob. I think the big difference is... in games like EQ, WOW, and Aeon, people don't get strung out about having to "be a noob" because the high end stuff is CLEARLY not accessible due to a level restriction. So that "BS" is similar to say raid gear, and people know they can't access it until they've reached level cap, joined a guild, and put in some time raiding. Just because you COULD pilot a tempest within your 1.6m skill points, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. In fact, level 1 and 2 missions would probably be faster in your frigate/destroyer/cruiser then in some battleship anyway. As well as the experience gained from running the missions or starting out in pvp as a noob with a noob ship. Solution (sarcasm included), make "levels" of skill points, like tiers, 100k = 1 level or something like that, then put a level restriction on ships. so every 1mil SP's = 10 levels. and say to fly a BS, you have to be level 60. Maybe people would get it out of their heads that they can come into an MMORPG and go straight from noobness to POWA! People will always complain but it's no different then any other mmo. The ONLY difference is that it's skill based instead of time spent based. So kids with NO life can't gain skill points faster by being online 19 hours a day and sleeping for 5, or taking shifts with their roomate so the toon is online 24 hours a day to grind all the super uber gear.
Colinesk	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:43:00 - [57] Gameplay != Skillpoints... I play this game since 4 years and still there is more to learn, more to play... and if you think that a battleship is always better... well, I hope three frigates will show you soon that you are horribly wrong Being able to sit in a ship does not enable you to actually fly it well. Begin with frigs, then cruisers and then maybe a battleship. Helps a lot. And fly with others! Cheers,have fun!
kiki mo	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Skippermonkey I'll save you over a years worth of gameplay with this piece of advice: Dont play EVE with the intention of making as much isk as you can. Find what you enjoy and do that regardless. If you turn EVE into a struggle of maximum SP learning and isk grinding you will never enjoy yourself. While as a zero SP character the 'unfairnesss' of it all, having to learn at a slower rate then other pilots, may seem annoying. Remember that these pilots went through the same things that you are doing right now. In fact, as a beginner pilot you've never had it so easy. Chill, take it all in at your own pace, and before you decide to go straight for a Battleship, i advise trying to get comfortable in a frigate first, then a cruiser, and then your Battleship. I'd also like to add that as a new player you CAN have a LOT of fun and can actually make some ISK as a secondary goal. Skippermonkey is right, don't play Eve as though it is a second job, making ISK as your goal, or grinding skillpoints/levels like you do in other MMO's. The 'real' game doesn't start becoming fun when you reach a certain level, it's fun at all levels if you make it fun. Contact me in-game if you want to know more. Cheers
Backho	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:35:00 - [59] Your plan is silly and inefficient. It is enough to get Cybernatics IV Learning IV Tier 1 stats IV Tier 2 stats III which takes less then 500k SP. This takes less then a week Now lets take your plan. You waste two weeks getting perfect learning. Thats two weeks slower in a mission running Lv 4 ship. Now this two weeks you can never ever get back in your life. two weeks of mission running at 20 hours a day at 50m isk/hour is 1b x 14 = 14 lost billions That means your "perfect plan" have just lost you 14 billion iskies of time. Which is enough to buy 14 accounts with perfect learning. 1.6m SP is enough to pilot a raven, finish all caldari lv 4 missions has to offer within 30 minutes, and earn 35-50m isk/hour easily. Time is money. There is no such thing as "perfect learning skill importance" unless its your bajillionth account.
Mael Sechnaill	Posted - 2010.07.06 19:19:00 - [60] Originally by: OT Smithers My take: Forget the first few weeks and the learning skills, those are nothing more than a preview of what will likely be your entire (brief) Eve experience. It is going to take you somewhere around ten months to a year to even begin to compete, and even then you will still be at a considerable disadvantage. Erm, tell this to the interceptor pilot I shot down in a Punisher. Thank God, what you say is true for everyone. Older players are still human. High SP surely helps a lot, if it's in the right departments, but the skill to apply this advantage is at least as important. Everyone can compete on his /her own level, and have some fun. Don't wait to play in a year, play it now. PS. I just came in to say that I am absolutely grateful for the 100% bonus.



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