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PI a bust

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Karenina Crul	Posted - 2010.07.04 22:49:00 - [1] With all due respect to the game-devs, PI is B-O-R-I-N-G. The only value in terms of my game play is that now there is something in Eve that I look forward to even less than shining lasers on rocks for hours. In order to be self sufficient, corps/alliances with POS need to be in PI just to be sure they won't face a fuel shortage or ridiculous market fluctuations for POS fuel resources, but this makes playing Eve more like work than play. I know I'm going to be flamed for this post, but honestly, only a SIM-City geek could like this PI stuff. CCP, please at least consider making resource production a continuous process, like it is for datacore R&D--only limited by available storage, perhaps. Alright, rant over. Done with cycling all my extractors on and checking storage, exporting to make room, etc.--I'm off to have some fun . . . mining.
Schmalcolm	Posted - 2010.07.04 23:05:00 - [2] Can I have your p0s through p4s?
Karenina Crul	Posted - 2010.07.04 23:30:00 - [3] Schmalcolm wrote: "The only cost is time. And yeah, it can suck at times. My trick is waking up early enough to set a 5-hour cycle, set another one at lunchtime, one at dinner time, and a fourth before I go to bed. When IÆm feeling froggy, IÆll spend an hour or two watching tv while resetting extractors on 30-minute cycles for key planets." Quoted from: http://podlogs.com/wlde/ Seems like you agree with many of the "it's boring" crowd, the fact that it's profitable notwithstanding. My time is too valuable for the schedule you suggest--I have a life, and need too feel I'm getting the most out of my limited game time. Nice website though--gotta give you props there.
LuckyQuarter Gallente Lucky Galactic Expeditions	Posted - 2010.07.04 23:32:00 - [4] I somewhat agree with OP, but this is more of an issue I think for single-player corps running their own POS -- which from what I can gather, CCP isn't a big supporter of. Larger corps won't have any real issue with the added burden that PI has brought about, and honestly..it does reduce hauling of fuel so I'm not sure how it balances out. The bigger issue I have with PI is that with its variety it might give significant advantages to those chars running many alts, since it really is a low-skill way for any char to generate significant almost passive income. It could be a major bonus to that play style, which I wish CCP would do more to discourage. I can understand financially, CCP would love for everyone to pay them higher multiples of their monthly charge to add more chars, but at least for me....I find it discourages me from enjoying the game. 1 char / 1 account is already sucking up way more time than I should be giving eve. I don't like feeling that I need to pay CCP more or manage another char to stay competitive with other players. But, apparently, I'm in the minority with this opinion.
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.05 00:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Karenina Crul only a SIM-City geek could like this PI stuff. I don't know why people keep saying things like this, as it's nothing like SimCity. SimCity is fun. Comparing PI to SimCity is insulting SimCity. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Ari Chu Perkone	Posted - 2010.07.05 00:39:00 - [6] More people have played SimCity than EVE. Personally, I hope that PI becomes MORE like SimCity than it is now (lots more building types to choose from would be a great start). I have 5 colonies, on 5 hour cycles. I don't check it every 5 hours.. it's just that 5 hours are more efficient than 23 hours if I can log in atleast 2 times per day most days. On days that I get a 3rd cycle in? Bonus. I produce P2's and don't need to "scoop da loot" but once per week and then sell it for a couple hundred mil. I also buy P0 and P1's when I can find them super cheap, and import them as buffers to keep my production going so that I don't have to alarm clock my colonies. --- "The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers.
Johnny Santos Beginning of the End	Posted - 2010.07.05 00:44:00 - [7] Know whats great about sandbox? You DONT HAVE TO DO IT. Oh and boo fricking hoo. 5-10 mins MAX takes no time and turns out a decent amount of something u can make instead of buy. My corp is small... we are using it to run 3 POS's in whs. By small I mean 10 members. Its more work to go scan a way out, find the market your in and look for the deals etc etc etc. The devs made a game that they would like to play, they made a game that many others enjoy. If you are too lazy to do it, leave. If you dont want to leave, dont play. EVERYTHING in eve has it boring moments. Insta-gratification is not EVE.. go play a cartoon like wow or even better a single player space game like x3 and use the cheats that ought to make someone like you happy. Yes you were flamed... you asked for it. On top of that though, bring a whine post that actually has merit or value that may draw better attention... maybe something that is critical and detailed... but then again were talking about u and u cant handle work.
La Faraona	Posted - 2010.07.05 00:50:00 - [8] If any developer reads this, I suggest looking at Settlers II (ancient game) its freeware now I think... has more recent sequels but not that good developed. in Settlers II there was an awesome production chain, like 30 types of buildings that needed each other to become a successful village. There were roads that remind of the EVE planetary links... was kind of a cool game. but EVE's PI has just 4 types of buildings: extractor, storage, basic factory, and advanced factory. Its a no brainer game, and setting all the extractors is plain annoying. You want people to spend time on PI its ok. Make it an interesting, busy activity, instead of current boring, busy activity.
Karenina Crul	Posted - 2010.07.05 01:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Johnny Santos Know whats great about sandbox? You DONT HAVE TO DO IT. Oh and boo fricking hoo. 5-10 mins MAX takes no time and turns out a decent amount of something u can make instead of buy. My corp is small... we are using it to run 3 POS's in whs. By small I mean 10 members. Its more work to go scan a way out, find the market your in and look for the deals etc etc etc. The devs made a game that they would like to play, they made a game that many others enjoy. If you are too lazy to do it, leave. If you dont want to leave, dont play. EVERYTHING in eve has it boring moments. Insta-gratification is not EVE.. go play a cartoon like wow or even better a single player space game like x3 and use the cheats that ought to make someone like you happy. Yes you were flamed... you asked for it. On top of that though, bring a whine post that actually has merit or value that may draw better attention... maybe something that is critical and detailed... but then again were talking about u and u cant handle work.
Karenina Crul	Posted - 2010.07.05 01:45:00 - [10] Knew someone like Santos would have something useless and hateful to say. Never played WoW. I'll have to rely on your experience there. Several others here made good suggestions. I think allowing extraction and processing to be continuous, only limited by storage capacity, was a reasonable suggestion also, but instead of adding anything useful some just want to flame--now that truly is the definition of LAZY.
Malachi256	Posted - 2010.07.05 01:47:00 - [11] All games, especially RPG type games, should try to maximize player DECISIONS and minimize player GRIND (those are activities that require zero thought, decision making, etc on the part of the player). This is why nearly everyone thinks that setting up PI is great - because it requires time + thought. And this is why nearly everyone thinks that maintaining PI is terrible - because it just requires time. And a genetic resistance to carpal tunnel syndrome. Ultimately, it doesn't have to be that way. Implement a system of PI maintenance that requires time + thought and you will have a good system.
Karenina Crul	Posted - 2010.07.05 01:54:00 - [12] Agree, Malachi. Well Said.
Quantessa Amarr TOG Empire DRACONIAN COVENANT	Posted - 2010.07.05 02:30:00 - [13] I like PI. It seems most of the complaints come from people who put too much effort in and get burned out. You can really slack, logging in once per week is perfectly viable. PI needs people to not enjoy it. That's simple economics - if it was as fun as pvp then the market would be over-supplied. If every player in Eve made 2 control towers a day just for the crack then they'd be worthless except as scrap. I think they've got it just right in that it really appeals to a few of us but a lot of people find it frustrating. ****************************************** Jenkins! Chap with wings. Five rounds rapid. ******************************************
Johnny Santos Beginning of the End	Posted - 2010.07.05 02:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Karenina Crul Knew someone like Santos would have something useless and hateful to say. Never played WoW. I'll have to rely on your experience there. Several others here made good suggestions. I think allowing extraction and processing to be continuous, only limited by storage capacity, was a reasonable suggestion also, but instead of adding anything useful some just want to flame--now that truly is the definition of LAZY. Incorrect. I dont hate you and what I said was stated matter factly. You are lazy. I run 3 accounts with 4 planets on each account and I spend maybe 20 mins every other day performing PI. Am I unique? Seems it might be. I didnt provide anything useful in regards to change because change isnt needed. Did you in your OP, no. You made a statement and got a stupid reply. I dont know why the others are feeding into it with useful ideas when there are other threads with more intelligence and meaning with practical solutions. You are just whining. Oh and yes I did play wow to level 5, try everything once and have an open mind. However, its a cartoon, easy entertainment for those that dont want real interaction in a game where the end result of your actions have meaningful consequences for the good or the bad. EVE has that and if you dont have the will to play this game, leave. If you think you do and hate mining PI then STOP. Go research, or explore, or kill people, or kill factions or fly around and stare at the walls.... control the market... do WHATEVER.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.07.05 02:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Malachi256 All games, especially RPG type games, should try to maximize player DECISIONS and minimize player GRIND (those are activities that require zero thought, decision making, etc on the part of the player). This is why nearly everyone thinks that setting up PI is great - because it requires time + thought. And this is why nearly everyone thinks that maintaining PI is terrible - because it just requires time. And a genetic resistance to carpal tunnel syndrome. Ultimately, it doesn't have to be that way. Implement a system of PI maintenance that requires time + thought and you will have a good system. Amen. PI is fun. It's a cool game. PI is also so amazingly horrible that no one apart from crazy people should be playing it. Dumb: "Hey we need to slow the players down" Dumber: "I know, lets add another click-sink"
Ari Chu Perkone	Posted - 2010.07.05 02:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Quantessa I like PI. It seems most of the complaints come from people who put too much effort in and get burned out. You can really slack, logging in once per week is perfectly viable. PI needs people to not enjoy it. That's simple economics - if it was as fun as pvp then the market would be over-supplied. If every player in Eve made 2 control towers a day just for the crack then they'd be worthless except as scrap. I think they've got it just right in that it really appeals to a few of us but a lot of people find it frustrating. To take this a step further - Do people realize how much of a PITA it is to destroy POSes? If building and fueling a POS is dirt cheap, because PI is made simple and fun, then 0.0 warfare will become even worse than it currently is. At least in the old wars, when a POS was destroyed - it was going to be have real value. I'd rather see the value of a POS go UP, making it more attractive of a target, than down - making the task of killing it that much worse. --- "The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers.
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.05 03:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 05/07/2010 03:21:39 Originally by: Malachi256 All games, especially RPG type games, should try to maximize player DECISIONS and minimize player GRIND (those are activities that require zero thought, decision making, etc on the part of the player). This is why nearly everyone thinks that setting up PI is great - because it requires time + thought. And this is why nearly everyone thinks that maintaining PI is terrible - because it just requires time. And a genetic resistance to carpal tunnel syndrome. Ultimately, it doesn't have to be that way. Implement a system of PI maintenance that requires time + thought and you will have a good system. Couldn't have said it better myself. We have people saying that it needs to be boring and click-intensive in order to keep those with lower tolerances for tedium out of it. If a game mechanic relies on enduring boredom to get a benefit, that game mechanic is broken. Games are supposed to be fun. Strategic decisions need to be made to keep your colony running, not just extractors restarted. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2010.07.05 05:30:00 - [18] Sim City was a pretty awesome game.
Johnny Santos Beginning of the End	Posted - 2010.07.05 05:31:00 - [19] Edited by: Johnny Santos on 05/07/2010 05:32:48 Edited by: Johnny Santos on 05/07/2010 05:32:03 How do you make money? Do you mine? Sell PLEX? Sell chars built on separate account? etc etc etc? Is it fun? How do you make money in ANY mmo? Is it fun? PI supplements some peoples income. PI takes away the tedium of shipping VAST materials. Again.... quit your whining or quit EVE or even better... STOP using PI and go the buy the stuff off the market and supplement the other guys income. You ALL have had weak arguments. Some valid points... but overall weak. EDIT 1: Nothing in life is free. EDIT 2: MEOW!
Corrain	Posted - 2010.07.05 05:36:00 - [20] There is more to PI than ISK-for-me-per-time-spent. One big long-standing complaint of potential Eve recruits is "My noob player could never catch up to the vets and have fun!!!" PI gives a tremendous early-game earnings boost. It also is a temptation to get characters into low/nullsec that would otherwise never venture in. It also gives a piracy opportunity away from gates for better loot than an afterburner and a killmail. And a more player-driven economy? Yes, please. As for the complaints, not everything in Eve is profitable to every player. Don't recall that promise being made about PI. If they add more level 1 missions to the game, that is a good thing, even if it isn't profitable for you or me. I make plenty of clicks in the game travelling, trading, fighting and mining without complaint... and spend far longer doing most of those activities. PI? Make a series of clicks in a few minutes and be done for hours (or days). Really can't picture asking for it to be easier for the money it generates. While PI could be more of a fun sim minigame, that implies spending even more time with it, which sounds like it would meet with even more resistance. Perhaps an advanced level can be added on for those who choose to get deeper with it? Of course this would be met with complaints that the additional level of earnings required additional/time effort instead of being a gimme. ( ) <- planet (not to scale) --EhonVonnre
Dorylini	Posted - 2010.07.05 06:24:00 - [21] The problem with PI is all the 'sweet mother of god my wrist hurts' clicking involved. Automation is probably a bad idea, since we don't want it to be too easy, but maybe instead of the mad click fest that is resurveying of extractors could become a one click event that takes a certain amount of time. Say..... a several minute cycle that has to be completed to have em all resurvey. I know at this rate I'll have to stop PI rather soon, simply to keep my wrist from being a victim to this crappy current system.
Ari Chu Perkone	Posted - 2010.07.05 06:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Dorylini Automation is probably a bad idea, since we don't want it to be too easy, but maybe instead of the mad click fest that is resurveying of extractors could become a one click event that takes a certain amount of time. Say..... a several minute cycle that has to be completed to have em all resurvey. I'm open to this idea. Something like 1 minute per extractor could be painful enough to give it value, and remove the Click-Fest. I'm sure there would be plenty of people who'd say "but each of my colonies has 12 extractors which means that's an HOUR every cycle!!!" - but seriously, there has to be some pain involved or PI is going to be worthless. The end result is that the quality of PVP will be inversely affected by the painfulness of PI. Make PI painless, towers lose value, and OPS to destroy those Towers become very painful. On the other hand, make PI very painful and towers will become very valuable. Even if they aren't fun to shoot at, the owners are much more likely to try and defend them. The higher the Pain of PI, the more valuable T2 ships and components become. That leads to higher stakes involved in even small gang warfare. The importance of this issue goes far beyond making industrialists rich or even adding value to DUST. Having valuable PI commodities will filter down to having higher stakes in all aspects of PVP - which is what this entire game is about in the first place. --- "The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers.
Listoria	Posted - 2010.07.05 11:36:00 - [23] IF i ever see another SUBMIT button ill hang myself.
Aphrodite Skripalle	Posted - 2010.07.05 11:47:00 - [24] Edited by: Aphrodite Skripalle on 05/07/2010 11:48:46 Edited by: Aphrodite Skripalle on 05/07/2010 11:48:28 Originally by: Malachi256 All games, especially RPG type games, should try to maximize player DECISIONS and minimize player GRIND (those are activities that require zero thought, decision making, etc on the part of the player). This is why nearly everyone thinks that setting up PI is great - because it requires time + thought. And this is why nearly everyone thinks that maintaining PI is terrible - because it just requires time. And a genetic resistance to carpal tunnel syndrome. Ultimately, it doesn't have to be that way. Implement a system of PI maintenance that requires time + thought and you will have a good system. I agree with that. Setting up PI was fun. Reading and learning to make it optimal working is fun. But now its just a boring clickfest. I hate it now because i have multiple accounts and its about a full hour boring clicke****s... Yes, i dont have to do it, but its a lot of isk i loose then. Btw. i already build some towers and other buildings and made a lot of isk from them, but still the UI of maintaining my chains just plain terrible. I really hate it now.
Emporer Norton	Posted - 2010.07.05 14:00:00 - [25] Yeah I think the time periods should be adjusted needing to do 30 min or 5 hour cycles in empire is a pain am in 0.0 now and just setting up 23 hour cycles could make double to triple the isk with shorter cycles but why burn myself out am extracting 2-3 resources/planet will have 5 and if get a good combo will have all 15 base materials ship to empire alt with just factory planets and can make any p2-p4 I want depending on whats most profitable
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.05 14:57:00 - [26] I'm using 96 hour cycles, and I really hate having to do all the clicking (thanks to all those that whined about the extractor refresh "bug"). I'm currently earning 55 million/day thanks to PI, but I am also seeing a rapid drop in prices. I probably won't be in it a month from now at this rate.
Makin' LuvLuvLuv	Posted - 2010.07.06 01:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Tau Cabalander I'm using 96 hour cycles, and I really hate having to do all the clicking (thanks to all those that whined about the extractor refresh "bug"). I'm currently earning 55 million/day thanks to PI, but I am also seeing a rapid drop in prices. I probably won't be in it a month from now at this rate. Stop selling P0-P1 ? About all the whining about 'severe clicking conditions': are you all solo ****ing control tower builders or something ?
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.07.06 02:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Kyra Felann By all means, make PI hard. Make it require planning and strategic thinking. But don't make it just a mechanic for people with high tolerances for tedium to make money. That is poor game design. Originally by: Dorylini The problem with PI is all the 'sweet mother of god my wrist hurts' clicking involved. Lazy game design from people who can't think of anything other then click-sinks.
Jita Jenn	Posted - 2010.07.06 02:38:00 - [29] I play a game where I spend all my time doing things I don't like to do. I'm now only 6 wetwire mainframes away from building my first tower. It's a med Caldari and will be used to mine a titanium moon and also for researching BPOs, maybe even to build a ship or two. I did the math and it costs about 150 mil to build a med tower with current PI component prices. How much are they selling for in the market hubs? You'd be lucky to even find certain towers in some regions.
Ikserak tai	Posted - 2010.07.06 13:25:00 - [30] Edited by: Ikserak tai on 06/07/2010 13:26:11 Originally by: Johnny Santos You are lazy. I run 3 accounts with 4 planets on each account and I spend maybe 20 mins every other day performing PI. . I call double BS on this crock. If you run twelve planets and only spend 20 minutes every other day effectively performing PI then I'll publicly kiss your arse in Jita and give you an hour to draw a crowd. When someone tries to foist this dung on other players I have to disregard every word they say as the entire mindset is rubbish. YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.

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