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I thought more of us would be playing by now.....

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Dave Day	Posted - 2004.12.17 01:48:00 - [1] Having played for around 18 months now, I recall a time when there were only around 4k players on at peak time on Sunday. I remember the optimistic cries of ''one day we'll hit 10k'' and, sure enough, the record stands at 12k+ right now, which is fantastic. BUT, I expected the take up of players to be a lot higher since Shiva (Exodus) was launched. After the initial high there's been a marked tail off of player numbers. It's still a healthy number but Shiva seems to have had no real impact and Kali is a LOOOONG way off. I can't help but be a little nervous about how many of us may be logging in by the time Kali arrives. I expected Shiva to deliver a much bigger boost to numbers than this. Personally, I think Shiva is great, there's more than enough for me to do inthe game right now.......yet the player numbers are falling. Any thoughts?
Dave Day	Posted - 2004.12.17 01:48:00 - [2] Having played for around 18 months now, I recall a time when there were only around 4k players on at peak time on Sunday. I remember the optimistic cries of ''one day we'll hit 10k'' and, sure enough, the record stands at 12k+ right now, which is fantastic. BUT, I expected the take up of players to be a lot higher since Shiva (Exodus) was launched. After the initial high there's been a marked tail off of player numbers. It's still a healthy number but Shiva seems to have had no real impact and Kali is a LOOOONG way off. I can't help but be a little nervous about how many of us may be logging in by the time Kali arrives. I expected Shiva to deliver a much bigger boost to numbers than this. Personally, I think Shiva is great, there's more than enough for me to do inthe game right now.......yet the player numbers are falling. Any thoughts?
pmota	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:00:00 - [3] I do have some ideas about this. Please note that I think the game has improved in user interface, the new barges are realy useful too. One of the biggest changes (market from space!) is very welcome BUT nothing revolutionary has happened. I assume most players cannot go to 0.0. One of the most anticipated features, POS, has no impact whatsoever for the average player. What use are they if nobody can build them ?! (ok, extremely rich players in extremely rich corps CAN, nobody else will....). I would have accepted that SOME POS components would only be available in low sec. space, but why cant I be a peaceful player and build something ?! Simply because I like safe space I cannot build ? Not fair. I also believe that group-oriented features like those that affect war, alliances and even fleet command (not there yet!) are welcome but the average player just needs to be able to do more on its own. Take lab slots: most people had the notion (maybe false, but they had it!) than Shiva would make lots of slots available. Would that have been so difficult ? Couldnt you have limited the number of slots a player can own to just 2 or 3 (and a corp's number limited by the number of members, say a 10 member corp could have 2, 20 member 3, 100 member 5 and so on...). These would have been SIMPLE changes that would have had so much more impact, perhaps with less glitches and patches... Just my thoughts. Oh, btw I do have 4 lab slots, which I share with friends, so I'm not complaining on my behalf, just tried to say what I usualy hear from fellow players
pmota	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:00:00 - [4] I do have some ideas about this. Please note that I think the game has improved in user interface, the new barges are realy useful too. One of the biggest changes (market from space!) is very welcome BUT nothing revolutionary has happened. I assume most players cannot go to 0.0. One of the most anticipated features, POS, has no impact whatsoever for the average player. What use are they if nobody can build them ?! (ok, extremely rich players in extremely rich corps CAN, nobody else will....). I would have accepted that SOME POS components would only be available in low sec. space, but why cant I be a peaceful player and build something ?! Simply because I like safe space I cannot build ? Not fair. I also believe that group-oriented features like those that affect war, alliances and even fleet command (not there yet!) are welcome but the average player just needs to be able to do more on its own. Take lab slots: most people had the notion (maybe false, but they had it!) than Shiva would make lots of slots available. Would that have been so difficult ? Couldnt you have limited the number of slots a player can own to just 2 or 3 (and a corp's number limited by the number of members, say a 10 member corp could have 2, 20 member 3, 100 member 5 and so on...). These would have been SIMPLE changes that would have had so much more impact, perhaps with less glitches and patches... Just my thoughts. Oh, btw I do have 4 lab slots, which I share with friends, so I'm not complaining on my behalf, just tried to say what I usualy hear from fellow players
Rattman	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:08:00 - [5] personally I am disappointed with the patch. Much of the stuff advertised didn't arrive or is half assed implementation I am likely to not resubscribe and come back in 1-2 months and see how much of the stuff I am waiting has been put in/fixed All opinions, rambling or not, expressed here are my own and not that of my corp or alliance
Rattman	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:08:00 - [6] personally I am disappointed with the patch. Much of the stuff advertised didn't arrive or is half assed implementation I am likely to not resubscribe and come back in 1-2 months and see how much of the stuff I am waiting has been put in/fixed All opinions, rambling or not, expressed here are my own and not that of my corp or alliance
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:26:00 - [7] I like the expansion so far. However, I have not had a chance to check out complexes or the new agent missions yet, so not sure about those... From what I'm hearing, agent missions are not worth doing anymore??? ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:26:00 - [8] I like the expansion so far. However, I have not had a chance to check out complexes or the new agent missions yet, so not sure about those... From what I'm hearing, agent missions are not worth doing anymore??? ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:36:00 - [9] Some good points in this. To the above mentioned: Yes, POS aren¦t cheap, but to keep them runnning you need mostly isotopes; thats the most cost intensive if oyu buy it in empire. Therefore even we out in 0.0 have troubles setting up stations, cause they are damn hard to maintain, mainly because we don¦t have the right ICE out here for the isotopes. In case you didnt know, you can build a pos in systems from 0.0 up to including 0.3, which imho is good. That way you get more players out of the core zones while giving them protection in form of gate sentries (don¦t forget those). Corporations that set up their PoS in empire with an ice field nearby can earn lots of money through ice mining and refining, then selling the isotopes to 0.0 corps/alliances, while the PoS gives you a "safe haven" other than the sometimes camped stations in the 0.3 and downwards systems. Just make some good sell offers near the border zones, that would be enough for us. we simply don¦t wanna go right into the middle of empire just to fetch some isotopes, but it would be ok to grab them at the 0.0 border systems (Dital, Assah, etc...), we even take them through the pirate blokades ourself . About the missing features, i think most of us remember castor release? They will come, just give em time. Bugfixing is much more important. But CCP should do more advertising for EVE, thats for sure. Write to magazines, tell them they should re-visit EVE and its new achievements, put more banners on homepages (the microsoft one was kewl) and so on, just get the attention of the ppl out there. I often meet ppl that have never heard of EVE, but when i tell em about it, they are almost instantly excited and wanna play it. Patience wins.
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:36:00 - [10] Some good points in this. To the above mentioned: Yes, POS aren¦t cheap, but to keep them runnning you need mostly isotopes; thats the most cost intensive if oyu buy it in empire. Therefore even we out in 0.0 have troubles setting up stations, cause they are damn hard to maintain, mainly because we don¦t have the right ICE out here for the isotopes. In case you didnt know, you can build a pos in systems from 0.0 up to including 0.3, which imho is good. That way you get more players out of the core zones while giving them protection in form of gate sentries (don¦t forget those). Corporations that set up their PoS in empire with an ice field nearby can earn lots of money through ice mining and refining, then selling the isotopes to 0.0 corps/alliances, while the PoS gives you a "safe haven" other than the sometimes camped stations in the 0.3 and downwards systems. Just make some good sell offers near the border zones, that would be enough for us. we simply don¦t wanna go right into the middle of empire just to fetch some isotopes, but it would be ok to grab them at the 0.0 border systems (Dital, Assah, etc...), we even take them through the pirate blokades ourself . About the missing features, i think most of us remember castor release? They will come, just give em time. Bugfixing is much more important. But CCP should do more advertising for EVE, thats for sure. Write to magazines, tell them they should re-visit EVE and its new achievements, put more banners on homepages (the microsoft one was kewl) and so on, just get the attention of the ppl out there. I often meet ppl that have never heard of EVE, but when i tell em about it, they are almost instantly excited and wanna play it. Patience wins.
IZON	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:42:00 - [11] For me it's always been about pace, playing eve is like swimming in treacle. I don't really have the time commit 5 hours + a day to play. It's incredible how little can be achieved in even two hours which is often the most I can spare. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
IZON	Posted - 2004.12.17 02:42:00 - [12] For me it's always been about pace, playing eve is like swimming in treacle. I don't really have the time commit 5 hours + a day to play. It's incredible how little can be achieved in even two hours which is often the most I can spare. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Jorev	Posted - 2004.12.17 03:00:00 - [13] It is only going to get worse. W0W definitely stole some of the players. I myself got fed up with unneded changes to propulsion, "balance" patches and such. Some of the most fun setups have been killed. Reason? Balance!!! LOL, who cares....
Jorev	Posted - 2004.12.17 03:00:00 - [14] It is only going to get worse. W0W definitely stole some of the players. I myself got fed up with unneded changes to propulsion, "balance" patches and such. Some of the most fun setups have been killed. Reason? Balance!!! LOL, who cares....
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.12.17 03:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Jorev Some of the most fun setups have been killed. Reason? Balance!!! LOL, who cares.... Yeah, i kinda miss my triple-mwd frig too... Patience wins.
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2004.12.17 03:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Jorev Some of the most fun setups have been killed. Reason? Balance!!! LOL, who cares.... Yeah, i kinda miss my triple-mwd frig too... Patience wins.
Diego	Posted - 2004.12.17 04:34:00 - [17] It is startin got get harder and harder to try and sit down and play this game. Not much happening event ways, or at least it is very hidden for the common guy. Agent missions are totally boring and not paying much. The server is still Laggy :-(. They put a lot of useless stuff into the game that they allways say is going to be used later. nice going. And where are the rest of the tech 2 stuff ?
Diego	Posted - 2004.12.17 04:34:00 - [18] It is startin got get harder and harder to try and sit down and play this game. Not much happening event ways, or at least it is very hidden for the common guy. Agent missions are totally boring and not paying much. The server is still Laggy :-(. They put a lot of useless stuff into the game that they allways say is going to be used later. nice going. And where are the rest of the tech 2 stuff ?
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2004.12.17 04:51:00 - [19] I like it small wink. Smaller means more people know and remember you not for just killing everyone in the game. I see Dev and Player relationships here. People know the staff and prob mail them for hot e-mail cyber (Only kidding). Small is great and I hope it never gets any bigger. I think you see my point. -Famine Aligher'ri Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2004.12.17 04:51:00 - [20] I like it small wink. Smaller means more people know and remember you not for just killing everyone in the game. I see Dev and Player relationships here. People know the staff and prob mail them for hot e-mail cyber (Only kidding). Small is great and I hope it never gets any bigger. I think you see my point. -Famine Aligher'ri Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
SturmBringer	Posted - 2004.12.17 04:52:00 - [21] lol , i think the name of the Expansion is appropriate . After this latest patch , i think alot of ppl will be suspending there accounts. I for 1 will be , hopefully in a month or 2 it may be more balanced.
SturmBringer	Posted - 2004.12.17 04:52:00 - [22] lol , i think the name of the Expansion is appropriate . After this latest patch , i think alot of ppl will be suspending there accounts. I for 1 will be , hopefully in a month or 2 it may be more balanced.
Delath	Posted - 2004.12.17 05:25:00 - [23] I read an interesting article in a gamingmagazine earlier this fall discussing the future of mmorpgs. Especially that the market isn't growing anymore but rather shrinking while developers still are pushing far too many games out resulting in a lot of promising (and not so promising) projects getting the axe before they even reach launch or right after because of lack of players. Their conclusion was that it's basically two types of games that survive. The huge with mass brandrecognition WoW, Everquest and possibly Matrix Online and Middle-Earth Online if they don't screw up. But then there are the small very niched ones that attract a more hardcore playerbase that hangs in there for a long time. To build that kinda game you gotta cut costs by having a smaller devteam, preferably selfowned so they can decide on their own without pressure from above and feel that their livelhood is connected to the game. The typeexamples used for this was EVE and some other game (A tale in the desert?). In fact the games mentioned here are among the very few to still grow at all. So EVE may not be the allout cashcow of WoW but it's definitely a success in that it's still here and actually growing. The key to EVE:s niche probably has to do with just the slowness someone spoke of above - it means it's pretty hard to get into the game but once there people get hooked for a very long time as your new ship or skill feels very valuable when it has so much time behind it. Of course this doesn't mean they shouldn't try to expand the userbase and of course they have some sort of painthreshold where they'd have to cancel the game due to few subscribers but I'm merely saying that just because EVE isn't growning at lightningspeed doesn't mean we have a crisis on our hands. ------------------------- "Real Men Hull Tank" CCP Hammer
Delath	Posted - 2004.12.17 05:25:00 - [24] I read an interesting article in a gamingmagazine earlier this fall discussing the future of mmorpgs. Especially that the market isn't growing anymore but rather shrinking while developers still are pushing far too many games out resulting in a lot of promising (and not so promising) projects getting the axe before they even reach launch or right after because of lack of players. Their conclusion was that it's basically two types of games that survive. The huge with mass brandrecognition WoW, Everquest and possibly Matrix Online and Middle-Earth Online if they don't screw up. But then there are the small very niched ones that attract a more hardcore playerbase that hangs in there for a long time. To build that kinda game you gotta cut costs by having a smaller devteam, preferably selfowned so they can decide on their own without pressure from above and feel that their livelhood is connected to the game. The typeexamples used for this was EVE and some other game (A tale in the desert?). In fact the games mentioned here are among the very few to still grow at all. So EVE may not be the allout cashcow of WoW but it's definitely a success in that it's still here and actually growing. The key to EVE:s niche probably has to do with just the slowness someone spoke of above - it means it's pretty hard to get into the game but once there people get hooked for a very long time as your new ship or skill feels very valuable when it has so much time behind it. Of course this doesn't mean they shouldn't try to expand the userbase and of course they have some sort of painthreshold where they'd have to cancel the game due to few subscribers but I'm merely saying that just because EVE isn't growning at lightningspeed doesn't mean we have a crisis on our hands. ------------------------- "Real Men Hull Tank" CCP Hammer
MinorFreak	Posted - 2004.12.17 05:42:00 - [25] Edited by: MinorFreak on 17/12/2004 05:45:00 this thread is the funniest EVAR! you just made my entire decade. You're all so cute. No offense, but the utter conceit to think the general public even know you exist! my god, you'd think CCP spent marketing power brainwashing their current players instead of spending MORE trying to hype up merely just another patch from just another online game. ______________________ Best darned links ingame and out (backup)
MinorFreak	Posted - 2004.12.17 05:42:00 - [26] Edited by: MinorFreak on 17/12/2004 05:45:00 this thread is the funniest EVAR! you just made my entire decade. You're all so cute. No offense, but the utter conceit to think the general public even know you exist! my god, you'd think CCP spent marketing power brainwashing their current players instead of spending MORE trying to hype up merely just another patch from just another online game. ______________________ Best darned links ingame and out (backup)
Phantom Speedrunner	Posted - 2004.12.17 06:42:00 - [27] Ive been playing WOW since release and have talked to players in game that have come from EVE. Its not unreasonable to think many have jumped on to the latest fad but the question is will they stay or after a while come back. For me personally WOW is more casual friendly and I can start a new class of character levelled up in no time. Eve with its time based training probably will be a detriment to many new players. That being said it needs to get more variety in for all players not just the long timers. Eve is so much like real life , no way we can ever catch the Bill gates of the eve world.
Phantom Speedrunner	Posted - 2004.12.17 06:42:00 - [28] Ive been playing WOW since release and have talked to players in game that have come from EVE. Its not unreasonable to think many have jumped on to the latest fad but the question is will they stay or after a while come back. For me personally WOW is more casual friendly and I can start a new class of character levelled up in no time. Eve with its time based training probably will be a detriment to many new players. That being said it needs to get more variety in for all players not just the long timers. Eve is so much like real life , no way we can ever catch the Bill gates of the eve world.
Cobracure	Posted - 2004.12.17 09:07:00 - [29] Theres a few things causing players to leave. Gate campers in 0.4 - 0.1 0.0 Chokepoints Escrow scamming (improved with new market) Ore thieving (being fixed soon_tm) Im not leaving but I can see this game doesnt look after its newer players too well.
Cobracure	Posted - 2004.12.17 09:07:00 - [30] Theres a few things causing players to leave. Gate campers in 0.4 - 0.1 0.0 Chokepoints Escrow scamming (improved with new market) Ore thieving (being fixed soon_tm) Im not leaving but I can see this game doesnt look after its newer players too well.

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