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Caracal Anti Frigate Fit - Rigs - Sheild or Rigors?

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Barrak Caldari Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.07.05 20:52:00 - [1] Hi, I want to work on my PvP skills with my Caracal as I have very strong missile skills. This is the fit that seems to be popular on Battle Clinic: [Caracal, Caracal: Specialized frigate killer COPY CHEAP] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Large Shield Extender II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Compact 'Limos' Assault Missile Bay I, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Hobgoblin I x2 What I am wondering however, is if the shield rigs might be better replaced with the missile rigs - Flare/Rigor? These missiles rigs are all the rave on the RAVENS, but I am wondering if there is a benefit (thats been tested) that might prove they are more usefull than sheild extenders in the rig slots? Regards Barrak In this life (Eve) dying is easy, its living thats hard. Talent does not count, its what you do with it that does
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2010.07.05 20:58:00 - [2] Having been on both sides of this vessel, I can tell you that you don't need the rigor rigs. You'll rip right through frigates with just AMLs and decent skills. One thing I would change to your fit, especially if you are solo, is a medium energy neut.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.07.05 21:06:00 - [3] Yeah, assuming that your skills are in any way respectable, with dual web you don't need the Rigours. But you need a MWD, and upgrade that J5 point to a T2 one - you need the extra range. Also, switch to Warriors rather than Hobgoblins - they'll be more effective against tough targets like AFs. I'm not a fan of a med neut on AML Caracals. With good skills, your DPS simply blows through any reasonable active tank. If your skills are poor - and the named AMLs suggests so - then it may have a place, but that loss of 20% of your missile DPS is considerable. Most frigate targets aren't active-tanked and with those the med neut does nothing for your time-to-kill.
Barrak Caldari Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.07.05 21:12:00 - [4] Edited by: Barrak on 05/07/2010 21:14:40 HI, thanks for the quick replies. My missile skills are very strong. All supports are level 5 and light missiles through to cruise are specialised level 4. (not HAMs or Torps though). The reason for the named kit is that I was trying to make it cheap. I am learning this style, having formaly been a mission running and at this stage, I am a little reluctant to put T2 gear on this. I have tested it and I can fit all T2 on this. It's interesting about the neut..... it's prevalent in PvP like I never knew, not that that's saying much, my PvP experience is very limited. If I were in a gang, what would be more usefull? the extra launcher or the neut? ps.... thanks for clearing the rig question up!! Barrak pps. The idea behind the AB was that I wanted to control range against a webbed MWD frigate that 'may' have a scram fitted....... In this life (Eve) dying is easy, its living thats hard. Talent does not count, its what you do with it that does
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.07.05 21:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Barrak The reason for the named kit is that I was trying to make it cheap. I am learning this style, having formaly been a mission running and at this stage, I am a little reluctant to put T2 gear on this. I have tested it and I can fit all T2 on this. It's interesting about the neut..... it's prevalent in PvP like I never knew, not that that's saying much, my PvP experience is very limited. If I were in a gang, what would be more usefull? the extra launcher or the neut? pps. The idea behind the AB was that I wanted to control range against a webbed MWD frigate that 'may' have a scram fitted....... Cheapness - AML IIs are not expensive. If you're poor, sure, stick to named, but T2 will give a substantial DPS increase. Bring all types of CN ammo and know what damage type to use against which ship - don't use Bloodclaw against Ishkurs. Don't use Precision - CN will do a lot more damage than Precision against a tackled target, and have twice the range. In gang, definitely go for the extra launcher over the neut. A gang AML Caracal is more of a defensive ship and will want to use its respectable mobility to stay at range. In that case, at range, the webs would not be useful as an offensive tool - although potential very useful defensively - and switching one or even both to a painter or tracking disruptor would probably be better for your gang. The MWD enables you to dictate range against many ABing frigates and escape many armour-tanked cruisers. The greater mobility assists you in getting the initial tackle. These abilities are much more useful than a bit more speed when scrambled.
Barrak Caldari Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.07.05 21:30:00 - [6] Some very usefull information there....... really appreciate it. Thank you. In this life (Eve) dying is easy, its living thats hard. Talent does not count, its what you do with it that does
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.05 21:41:00 - [7] I like this for anti-frig in gangs as its basically a 40km no fly zone around your gang. Cheap as none of the t2 mods are very exspensive with a respectable(for a caracal) tank of 20k. [Caracal, Frigates! Omnomnom] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x2 Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.07.05 23:07:00 - [8] Fit still bad, laughable DPS. We get it - you're stupid, Zeba. ____________ HYDRA Reloaded - 2nd place at Alliance Tournament 8 EVE-Arena is awesome!
Radcjk Failed Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.07.06 00:46:00 - [9] I like to roll out the following. Ballistic Control II Damage Control II 10mn MWD I - There is almost no reason to fit the more expensive named MWD, and T2 gets tight on fit. Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Large Shield Extender II x2 Assualt Missile Launcher II x 5 - Faction ammo. Warrior or Hornet ECM drones x2 Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x3. A lot of pilots will tell you to go for a Warp Scrambler, or fit dual web. I've never bothered were, nor been heavily affected by it, either. If the pilot has a MWD and stays close, his speed is reduced but his signature is still flared up until he decides to either switch propulsion or just slow boat it around you. If the frigate is AB fit, he's not out running you. Even if he has a scram and breaks 10-13 kms away from you, you activate MWD and chase him down. A savvy pilot may or may not get out of it if you've got him in web range, but I've never lost more than a target or two by sacrificing dps / buffer-tank for additional tackle and a neut.
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.06 00:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Radcjk I like to roll out the following. Ballistic Control II Damage Control II 10mn MWD I - There is almost no reason to fit the more expensive named MWD, and T2 gets tight on fit. Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Large Shield Extender II x2 Assualt Missile Launcher II x 5 - Faction ammo. Warrior or Hornet ECM drones x2 Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x3. A lot of pilots will tell you to go for a Warp Scrambler, or fit dual web. I've never bothered were, nor been heavily affected by it, either. If the pilot has a MWD and stays close, his speed is reduced but his signature is still flared up until he decides to either switch propulsion or just slow boat it around you. If the frigate is AB fit, he's not out running you. Even if he has a scram and breaks 10-13 kms away from you, you activate MWD and chase him down. A savvy pilot may or may not get out of it if you've got him in web range, but I've never lost more than a target or two by sacrificing dps / buffer-tank for additional tackle and a neut. Named MWD is dirt cheap and runs longer. I forgot to mention that you are in fact reading something that is called a signature.

BiggestT Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.07.06 03:35:00 - [11] I used to use a slightly diff setup. I'd go longe range with painters, so you can kite at around 30-45km while your poor tackler buddies take the punishment (regardless its almost always a guarenteed kill against frigs and even some cruisers). Oh and yes, you want the missile rigs, your job is not to tank so dont bother; its a cheap fit anyway. EVE Trivia EVE History
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.07.06 06:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Fit still bad, laughable DPS. We get it - you're stupid, Zeba. Troll still bad, same effective dps as every other anti frig gang caracal. We get it - you're a troll, Intigo. Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Barrak Caldari Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.07.06 08:11:00 - [13] So.... great info apart from the pointless troll, which ......well, I dont know where they were coming from. So we have many 'yes' to sheild rigs and one 'no'...... I would love some more comments on this. Another question, at a risk of turning this into a 'Caracal fit thread'. If I was in a gang, would you drop the point for something else, working on the assumption, as someone else pointed out, that you can rely on your buddies for points? Barrak
Vokradacka	Posted - 2010.07.06 10:17:00 - [14] so, you guys expect fight vs idiotic frigate pilot ??? what normal ppl ill go under 10km agains caracal??? use target painters and flare rigs + long point. btw: AMLs are MUCH worse than before nanonerf. vs T1 frigates or EAS its ok,but vs AF with AB or vs inty....its really bad. Good inty pilot can survive 1+ min vs caracal easily.(12-16sec before nerf)
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.06 10:47:00 - [15] [Caracal, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Scrambler II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Less than 10 mil to build and rips apart frigates like there is no tomorrow. Upgrade web to t2 if you can (For some reason I just havent bothered to train for t2)
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.07.06 11:45:00 - [16] Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/07/2010 11:46:56 Originally by: Vokradacka so, you guys expect fight vs idiotic frigate pilot ??? what normal ppl ill go under 10km agains caracal??? use target painters and flare rigs + long point. btw: AMLs are MUCH worse than before nanonerf. vs T1 frigates or EAS its ok,but vs AF with AB or vs inty....its really bad. Good inty pilot can survive 1+ min vs caracal easily.(12-16sec before nerf) Actually, a good interceptor pilot was immune to missiles before the QR missile boost. Back then, outrunning the explosion velocity of Precisions was straightforward. Originally by: baltec [Caracal, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Scrambler II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Flameburst Fury Light Missile Less than 10 mil to build and rips apart frigates like there is no tomorrow. Upgrade web to t2 if you can (For some reason I just havent bothered to train for t2) Medium shield extenders? Thermal missiles?? Fury??? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
beor oranes Caldari Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.06 12:33:00 - [17] [Caracal, AML] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Target Painter II Target Painter II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x2 I'd go with that if I didn't have to do the tackling. Means that you not only help your damage but the damage of your friends as well and you don't have to wait until the frigs get within range to use EWAR on them. Gives you an engagement range of like 60k. If I had to tackle, swap the TP's for Point and Web. Caracal is DPS support though so I wouldn't fly with tackle at all. If you have logistics support then drop a LSE for a Invul and the BCU for a DCU. As for shield rigs over missile rigs...with decent skills you wont need the the extra bonuses that flare and rigor give but the extra buffer might just save you. Those missile rigs are all the rage on PvE Ravens, any PvP Ravens (with buffer, not active) will have shield rigs.
dangman4ever Gallente Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2010.07.06 14:12:00 - [18] Edited by: dangman4ever on 06/07/2010 14:12:21 I've personally been on the receiving end of this particular Caracal fit in a Taranis: [Caracal, KurMur's Caracal] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II,Bloodclaw Precision Light Missile Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I In just one engagement alone, that Caracal fit and pilot killed 3 Taranis' (including my own) and a Rifter despite being outnumbered by 18 ships. So I say it's a very effective fit.
Barrak Caldari Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:28:00 - [19] Fantastic feedback everyone, I really appreciate you taking the time! It seems that I am virtualy there with my setup, which to be fair, is straight out of Battle Clinic, so it's no huge surprise! With this setup, would you use an orbit or a 'keep at distance'. I would imagine the KAD is better, but it could leave you just 'sitting' there. Barrak In this life (Eve) dying is easy, its living thats hard. Talent does not count, its what you do with it that does
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.06 20:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Gypsio III Medium shield extenders? Thermal missiles?? Fury??? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Fitting for those of us without the blessing of perfect skills, fury because I cant get any bloody fation where I am and thermal because I just picked a random missile in the list.

AterraX Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.06 20:46:00 - [21] Funny, I just use HML's with rigors...one shots frigs...have a much better range and can hit lager targets for added bonus. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character...
Radcjk Failed Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.07.06 21:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Radcjk on 06/07/2010 21:31:22 Originally by: Agent Unknown Originally by: Radcjk Stuff I said. Named MWD is dirt cheap and runs longer. So it is these days. I didn't realize as I haven't bought one in for ever, had them in stock. That said, yes, go with the Y-T8.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2010.07.06 23:59:00 - [23] Edited by: Stuart Price on 07/07/2010 00:00:30 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Gypsio III Medium shield extenders? Thermal missiles?? Fury??? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Fitting for those of us without the blessing of perfect skills, fury because I cant get any bloody fation where I am and thermal because I just picked a random missile in the list. 1 LSE > 2 MSE's = using the dual web/single LSE version requires almost NO fitting skills. Fury missiles are just terrible. Try harder to get faction or just use t1 :p The 'random missile' argument is fine. I switch missiles to match damage holes anyway. Also, +1 (million) for Gypsio's fit; which is the one I use (to solid effect). It works. It works really, really well. To add to the ONE WEB OR TWO argument = I prefer to kill the target as quickly as possible because, let's face it, he probably isn't alone. The extra tank from a second LSE is largely redundant because you'll have whatever frigate you've caught heavily outmatched in the dps/ehp balance and you shouldn't be engaging larger ships unless you can kite them outside their weapon range (therefore making your own tank irrelevant). For gangs I can see the wisdom of swapping a web for a TP (and probably would), but I would probably still want the other web in place. I also hate seeing stuff get away once I've caught it. Similar thinking applies to the PUT A NEUT ON school - active tanks are rare (at all, let alone on a frig), I'd rather simply blow through the buffers quicker and, in any case, there really aren't that many active tanked frigs that can survive 200+ dps AML Caracals for very long (or have the dps to defeat it at the same time). Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Gim Memore Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.07.07 07:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Vokradacka so, you guys expect fight vs idiotic frigate pilot ??? what normal ppl ill go under 10km agains caracal??? use target painters and flare rigs + long point. btw: AMLs are MUCH worse than before nanonerf. vs T1 frigates or EAS its ok,but vs AF with AB or vs inty....its really bad. Good inty pilot can survive 1+ min vs caracal easily.(12-16sec before nerf) Says the guy with no experience at flying solo in anti-frig caracals. Frigs of all kinds go within 10km of a caracal all the time, it's actually a shock to me when they don't come with scram range of me. The standard response of an inty or af trying to tackle a caracal that they think is trying to warp off or reapproach is to hit approach with their points and weapons hot, which means u get an easy kill or 2 or 3 almost every time.
Radcjk Failed Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.07.07 19:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Gim Memore Originally by: Vokradacka Stuff Says the guy with no experience at flying solo in anti-frig caracals. Frigs of all kinds go within 10km of a caracal all the time, it's actually a shock to me when they don't come with scram range of me. The standard response of an inty or af trying to tackle a caracal that they think is trying to warp off or reapproach is to hit approach with their points and weapons hot, which means u get an easy kill or 2 or 3 almost every time. Another tactic, and your only hope vs cruisers as well, is to pretend to fear them and run. Warp some where obvious, or if they're within 100 kms or further, start aligning out. Its even better when they're tackle for a gang (C'mon..your max cruiser fit is like.. 21 mil, give or take). I've nailed a few by aligning to my exist point and spamming 'lock' as they approach. Set missiles hot and as soon as you get a lock and fire, this is what usually plays out. " A:Target locked around 70-65 kms... missiles fire. Target takes damage. B:Fast frigate is now within 30 or so and deciding this is a poor idea as he gets slammed with second volley of missiles. C:Fast frigate has coasted into the death bubble and is rampantly trying to flee. You activated your T2 point, right ? Good. Volley 3 or 4 usually finishes this. Warp out as enemy gang arrives and talk smack in local (for extra speed in your escape, feel free to have pre smack talk ready for Ivy League or Minmatar FW when using this tactic, your stomping ground depending) Vs slow plate cruisers you can usually slow boat as they mwd and grind down their shields and into their armor as they try to approach. Once they realize that their losing more armor than may be worth it, you need to get them in point range and fast. This is only recommended vs soloing cruisers and only if you have that long point.


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