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SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.09 18:58:00 - [31] Informational tip.... Mechanical parts is made up of Noble Metals and Base Metals Noble Metals are only available from Plasma and Barron Planets. Robotics which is also uses Mechanical parts, hence Noble Metals. Here is a list of P0 items that are required to fuel a Large POS for 30 days. Noble Gas----------2,700,000 Aqueous Liquids----6,912,000 Ionic Solutions----6,912,000 Noble Metals-------10,656,000 <-- MILLIONS more units then any other P0 for fueling a POS Heavy Metals-------6,336,000 Base Metals--------7,200,000 Non-CS Crystals----2,880,000 Got giggle, Noble Metals makes Precious Metals P1 item. Oxygen---------------18,000 Water----------------46,080 Electrolytes---------46,080 Precious Metals------71,040 <---- Toxic Metals---------42,240 Reactive Metals------48,000 Chiral Structures----19,200 Why is it so high - It's used in Three different POS Fuels. Enriched Uranium, Mechanical Parts, and Robotics. Making it the single most demanded P0 and P1 item for POS Fuel. Do you have your stock?? P.S. Don't be fooled by Base/Reactive Metals, those things are EASY to harvest in bulk from Barron planets all over high-sec, they are also available of 5 of the 8 planets. Noble/Precious Metals are only available on 2 of the 8 planets. One being the rarest planet of them all, Plasma. However the other being the most populous planet, Barron, which is also Noble Metals primary deposits. Heavy/Toxic Metals is used in Enriched Uranium and Robotics (As Consumer Electronics) It's available on 3 of the 8 planet, 2 of which are the rarest, Plasma and Lava, both according to my extractions supply about the same. Ice planets which is also available from is significantly less. So if you're going to gamble on the Metals rather then the GAS, Noble/Precious, then Heavy/Toxic is a better combination. But we all know the bottleneck is Ionic Solutions/Electrolytes as their harvest amount in High-sec is pretty crappy. Amarr for Life
Time2Whine	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:10:00 - [32] I'm pretty sure nobody at all is gambling on P0 and P1 due to the export costs and ******ed logistics involved practically guaranteeing they'll never have a viable market. Keep on posting, though, it's always good for a lol.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:16:00 - [33] Originally by: Time2Whine I'm pretty sure nobody at all is gambling on P0 and P1 due to the export costs and ******ed logistics involved practically guaranteeing they'll never have a viable market. Keep on posting, though, it's always good for a lol. That's funny because when stocks run out the "never have a viable market" will suddenly spring into the one of the most viable market available in EVE. But you keep on trolling me, I enjoy the attention, it's always good for the lol. Amarr for Life
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:18:00 - [34] Originally by: SencneS I enjoy the attention
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:38:00 - [35] Quote: I'm pretty sure nobody at all is gambling on P0 and P1 due to the export costs and *****ed logistics involved practically guaranteeing they'll never have a viable market. Keep on posting, though, it's always good for a lol. I am making 5M a day on 1 P0 product (I am gathering them all), in hi sec. For someone early in the game it'd not be so bad. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Chara Vega	Posted - 2010.07.09 19:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: I am making 5M a day on 1 P0 product (I am gathering them all), in hi sec. For someone early in the game it'd not be so bad. How many planets/chars?
Jack Coutu Gallente Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.07.09 21:17:00 - [37] 5k price hike in 12 hours? I can only guess where this will take us
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2010.07.09 21:42:00 - [38] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Time2Whine I'm pretty sure nobody at all is gambling on P0 and P1 due to the export costs and ****ed logistics involved practically guaranteeing they'll never have a viable market. Keep on posting, though, it's always good for a lol. That's funny because when stocks run out the "never have a viable market" will suddenly spring into the one of the most viable market available in EVE. But you keep on trolling me, I enjoy the attention, it's always good for the lol. Unless you're arguing that there's going to be a P0 bottleneck which elevates these above export costs + logistics margin, I see no reason this isn't going to turn out exactly like low-end reactions which follow fuel costs with hardly even a hint of fluctuation. Except, in this case you can actually avoid the export costs and reduce your logistics with PI compression by taking it to P2. You've got it **in' figured out man, there's absolutely no way people are going to want to avoid the amazing opportunity to do more work for less profit. Can I invest in your.. oh.. right.
pmchem Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.09 22:02:00 - [39] Originally by: Jack Coutu 5k price hike in 12 hours? I can only guess where this will take us Soon, maybe to the point where it's profitable to buy Mech Parts / Consumer Elec in Jita and actually manufacture Robotics. It's getting closer. Expect a huge run on CE at that point (as it's cheaper and underpriced compared to Mech Parts).
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.09 22:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Tiberizzle Unless you're arguing that there's going to be a P0 bottleneck which elevates these above export costs + logistics margin, I see no reason this isn't going to turn out exactly like low-end reactions which follow fuel costs with hardly even a hint of fluctuation. Except, in this case you can actually avoid the export costs and reduce your logistics with PI compression by taking it to P2. You've got it ****in' figured out man, there's absolutely no way people are going to want to avoid the amazing opportunity to do more work for less profit. Can I invest in your.. oh.. right. For P0 sure, but for P1 the story changes. P0 has ONE outcome there is NO POINT in exporting it ever!. P1 However you have options about where you want to go. Precious Metal is where the possible bottle neck would be. Since PI can't be reprocessed I'm thinking Precious Metals will be a pressure point. Taking it to P2 maybe, if your planet supports it otherwise you're still exporting/importing. Precious Metals is used in P2 Items Enriched Uranium Mechanical Parts Biocells Pretty small spread, so you there is a little support in what you say, but I still think P1 will be a bottle neck. These Three P2 items above go to make these P3 Items Robotics Nuclear Reactors Transcranial Microcontrollers Gel-Matrix Bio Planetary Vehicles Neocoms This is a pretty large spread for a single P0/P1 item most requiring multiple planets etc. Taking Precious Metals to P2 might happen but I've seen people import P1 items into planets because their planet doesn't support it. So they import P1, and process it to P2 or P3 even. For example Importing the P1 Water into a Storm planet because it REALLY CHEAP, and running nothing but extractors and a few processors to make Coolant for example. No doubt P0 has no real use period, Investing in P0 would be stupid. P1 has import potential. P2 Same amount of Potential in my opinion. Amarr for Life
pmchem Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.10 01:08:00 - [41] Read all of sencnes recent posts in various threads here, then read mine. I'm saying buy Consumer Electronics, he's saying buy Precious Metals. It should be an easy call.
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.07.10 01:25:00 - [42] Originally by: pmchem Originally by: Jack Coutu 5k price hike in 12 hours? I can only guess where this will take us Soon, maybe to the point where it's profitable to buy Mech Parts / Consumer Elec in Jita and actually manufacture Robotics. It's getting closer. Expect a huge run on CE at that point (as it's cheaper and underpriced compared to Mech Parts). CE are barely moving, Mech Parts a bit faster but not much. At this point I'm wishing I had more CE stockpiled. Oh well.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.10 01:38:00 - [43] Originally by: pmchem Read all of sencnes recent posts in various threads here, then read mine. I'm saying buy Consumer Electronics, he's saying buy Precious Metals. It should be an easy call. LOL Soon you'll realize two things... 1) A majority of people don't care what you think or say. 2) Everyone doesn't care what I think or say. So trolling me is a fruitless effort. I don't need anyones help showing how stupid my ideas are, I do that enough by myself. In case you didn't notice, I get trolled wherever I go, and I don't care. So enjoy the self deluded feeling of joy you apparently get every time you press the reply button. Have a good morning/day/afternoon/night wherever you are good sir.. Amarr for Life
TheLady Ishtar	Posted - 2010.07.10 03:57:00 - [44] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: pmchem Read all of sencnes recent posts in various threads here, then read mine. I'm saying buy Consumer Electronics, he's saying buy Precious Metals. It should be an easy call. LOL Soon you'll realize two things... 1) A majority of people don't care what you think or say. 2) Everyone doesn't care what I think or say. So trolling me is a fruitless effort. I don't need anyones help showing how stupid my ideas are, I do that enough by myself. In case you didn't notice, I get trolled wherever I go, and I don't care. So enjoy the self deluded feeling of joy you apparently get every time you press the reply button. Have a good morning/day/afternoon/night wherever you are good sir.. Delusion is something you seem pretty experienced with.....
Maria Yumeno	Posted - 2010.07.10 07:38:00 - [45] Originally by: pmchem Read all of sencnes recent posts in various threads here, then read mine. I'm saying buy Consumer Electronics, he's saying buy Precious Metals. It should be an easy call. I would say both are set to rise when the robotics rush hits, however CE is under-valued and so stands to rise more significantly than PM. If u produce PM it might be better to stockpile them, i however sell all the p2s i manufacture and put the isk into other P2/P3's I wish i had invested more before the patch hit (was in fact planning to but i was on vacation) i only invested around 20% of my liquid isk as any more would have affected my t2 production capabilities. I don;t think many people were expecting such a quick rise in npc prices after the initial npc orders were taken off the market.
J'J'J'Jita	Posted - 2010.07.10 15:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Maria Yumeno Originally by: pmchem Read all of sencnes recent posts in various threads here, then read mine. I'm saying buy Consumer Electronics, he's saying buy Precious Metals. It should be an easy call. I would say both are set to rise when the robotics rush hits, however CE is under-valued and so stands to rise more significantly than PM. If u produce PM it might be better to stockpile them, i however sell all the p2s i manufacture and put the isk into other P2/P3's I wish i had invested more before the patch hit (was in fact planning to but i was on vacation) i only invested around 20% of my liquid isk as any more would have affected my t2 production capabilities. I don;t think many people were expecting such a quick rise in npc prices after the initial npc orders were taken off the market. I agree with this. I thought CE would push Robotics up (and it has), but now it appears that after Consumer Electronics is done doing that, there will be a rubber-band effect and Robotics will pull CE up even more. This is allowed to happen when both related products are underpriced. Great investment chance, I bought some.
ZeJesus	Posted - 2010.07.10 16:20:00 - [47] Originally by: J'J'J'Jita Originally by: Maria Yumeno Originally by: pmchem Read all of sencnes recent posts in various threads here, then read mine. I'm saying buy Consumer Electronics, he's saying buy Precious Metals. It should be an easy call. I would say both are set to rise when the robotics rush hits, however CE is under-valued and so stands to rise more significantly than PM. If u produce PM it might be better to stockpile them, i however sell all the p2s i manufacture and put the isk into other P2/P3's I wish i had invested more before the patch hit (was in fact planning to but i was on vacation) i only invested around 20% of my liquid isk as any more would have affected my t2 production capabilities. I don;t think many people were expecting such a quick rise in npc prices after the initial npc orders were taken off the market. I agree with this. I thought CE would push Robotics up (and it has), but now it appears that after Consumer Electronics is done doing that, there will be a rubber-band effect and Robotics will pull CE up even more. This is allowed to happen when both related products are underpriced. Great investment chance, I bought some. Trying to offload a few million units of CE? :)
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.10 16:57:00 - [48] Why do I think PM's are a good thing to have... 1) What they produce is already way way overstocked from NPC inventory. 2) When Stock runs out, there will be a mad rush to make Mechanical Parts, and Enriched Uranium, even CE and Robotics, because all of a sudden they are selling for P2's are selling 10-15KK a pop. Robotics is selling 50K. It's as simple as that. If you already have a sizable inventory of some P2 items, and you want to diversify into something that WASN'T NPC supplied. PM's is a good choice. Some quick calculation will clearly tell you that PM's are still currently under priced. I think most people will agree Mechanical Parts has room to grow. If you look at Enriched Uranium it's been pretty solid mil+ units a day 10K+ now for 20+ days. Why shouldn't Mechanical Parts or even CE for that matter be around the same price. If you look at consumption of Enriched Uranium it's 4 units per hour per large POS. Mechanical Parts consumes 8.3 per hour per large POS (Robotics consumes 3.3 MP's an hour). Not many people got on the Enriched Uranium at NPC price so it's been at the hands of the few that did, and any produces. Well almost a month now of 10K+ Prices is a pretty good indicator of acceptable P2 prices for POS Fuel. If you take that you could assume that Mechanical Parts will be at LEAST 15K a unit. Because it's consumed more. PM's are 700 ISK a unit in Jita, You also need You also need Reactive Metals which about 260 in Jita. ((70040)+(26040))/5 = 7,680 ISK per unit. So again... CE's are a good investment they are too cheap. MP's are even good as well, they are set to spike, although you can buy more CE. IF you want to get away from NPC stockpiles or you're looking for some long term P1 item that could produce, and see a nice jack up in price. Precious Metals is a good choice. To quote AC155 /finger Amarr for Life
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.07.10 17:25:00 - [49] I'm confused as to how something being a pos fuel is terribly relevant in its long term pricing. Sure, more will be consumed but once equilibrium between npc sold and new P2 items has been reached then people will gradually migrate to produce everything in quantities that are needed. Short term, npc fuels are spiking faster because the consumption is higher and thus stockpiles are exhausting faster. However, once all stockpiles are gone I see no special reason for NPC fuels to stay high. Maybe a BIT higher, but certainly not noticeably so. Also, nobody with any sense whatsoever stockpiled EU so that's why it spiked high and has trended downwards like all the new P2s. Avg sale price was 19k like 10 days ago then rapidly crashed towards 10k before recovering a little bit. EU will continue to trend downwards while stockpiled goods will trend upwards until they meet in the middle.. and it certainly won't be at 15k (imo). Likely stopping point looks to be somewhere in the 6-9k range which would put robotics/guidance systems/transcranial around 45-55k and planetary vehicles around 75k. 15k P2s as you suggest would put P3s at 100-160k ea which seems unlikely.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.10 17:44:00 - [50] Originally by: Vilgan Mazran I'm confused as to how something being a pos fuel is terribly relevant in its long term pricing. Sure, more will be consumed but once equilibrium between npc sold and new P2 items has been reached then people will gradually migrate to produce everything in quantities that are needed. Going with that logic you're saying that Coolant, Enriched Uranium, Consumer Electronics, Mechanical Parts are all going to be about the same price. Despite the fact there is a vastly different amount of consumption for each. And that they also all have the exact same potential production quantity per hour.. OK. That's one theory I guess.. Amarr for Life
CeneUJiti	Posted - 2010.07.10 17:45:00 - [51] I use this opportunity to congratulate the people who were buying robotics off at below NPC orders, back when they were active. I was a noob, had a huge portion of my wallet invested in setting up planets and buying CE and MP, and desperate to at least get a return of my money. Last two days when NPC orders were all filled up by medium skill traders immediately after DT, I was selling robotics for 5.5k a piece, barely above manufacture and export price. Good traders stockpiled and bough off. I congratulate you gentleman, well done. Sure, I'm bitter about losing nearly a billion in profits (a immense amount for my noobish self), but I judged whether to sell now or stockpile and I choose wrong. Mea culpa.
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2010.07.10 18:04:00 - [52] Originally by: CeneUJiti I use this opportunity to congratulate the people who were buying robotics off at below NPC orders, back when they were active. I was a noob, had a huge portion of my wallet invested in setting up planets and buying CE and MP, and desperate to at least get a return of my money. Last two days when NPC orders were all filled up by medium skill traders immediately after DT, I was selling robotics for 5.5k a piece, barely above manufacture and export price. Good traders stockpiled and bough off. I congratulate you gentleman, well done. Sure, I'm bitter about losing nearly a billion in profits (a immense amount for my noobish self), but I judged whether to sell now or stockpile and I choose wrong. Mea culpa. Knowledge for next time :) I myself didn't stockpile but at 2x NPC prices, wild gamble but I took it.
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.07.10 18:17:00 - [53] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Vilgan Mazran I'm confused as to how something being a pos fuel is terribly relevant in its long term pricing. Sure, more will be consumed but once equilibrium between npc sold and new P2 items has been reached then people will gradually migrate to produce everything in quantities that are needed. Going with that logic you're saying that Coolant, Enriched Uranium, Consumer Electronics, Mechanical Parts are all going to be about the same price. Despite the fact there is a vastly different amount of consumption for each. And that they also all have the exact same potential production quantity per hour.. OK. That's one theory I guess.. What's your theory? simple numbers please, no 2-3 paragraph convoluted reasoning. My theory is also consistent with what happens in eve already. Invention, for example, is fairly consistent at about 650-750 mil/month regardless of which mod is being made.. whether it is consumed in the thousands per day or hundreds per day. Do most people swap to whatever makes the most money constantly? Of course not. But people making less money are more likely to quit/move to a different product and people starting invention are more likely to make whatever has the highest profit margin. There is a bit more spread in invention because its harder to see the margin at a glance whereas determining which P2 to make w/ PI is pretty bloody easy.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.10 19:17:00 - [54] Edited by: SencneS on 10/07/2010 19:18:11 Originally by: Vilgan Mazran What's your theory? simple numbers please, no 2-3 paragraph convoluted reasoning. Reasons why your theory is a little "off". --------------------- 1 - You have Two stakes of equal quantity, One of Enriched Uranium, one of Mechanical Parts. You place them on the market at the same time for the same price. Because the Market (According to your theory) will be about the same price. What happens? Mechanical parts burns out twice as fast as Enriched Uranium. Which means you have 100% profits from Mechanical Parts and only 50% of the total Profit from EU. But you can't make more of ether until you sell 100% of your products. For that matter since they can be produced at the same rate, lets assume you're buying P1, and making them. Your production capacity is only so much. SO why would you make EU even though it's the same price as MP, when you can sell twice as much MP in the same time frame.. --------------------- 2 - You along with 999 others all produce the exact amount of EU and MP required to fuel all of EVE. You all have 6 planets and the exact same production setup. 4 For production MP, 2 for producing EU (This is going with your theory that production will meet demand in a equal state, forcing prices to be about the same) Why would you as the producer make EU, when you could make nothing but MP, sell for the same price but you sell turn over your inventory at a faster rate, in the same time frame? --------------------- Well my theory is simple, the highest demand item will be priced higher then the lowest demand item, and not by only a few %, but by a lot. Because for PI, the production is equal, which means it's a buyers market, whatever the buyer demands the most off they'll pay more for. Amarr for Life
J'J'J'Jita	Posted - 2010.07.10 19:33:00 - [55] Originally by: ZeJesus Originally by: J'J'J'Jita I agree with this. I thought CE would push Robotics up (and it has), but now it appears that after Consumer Electronics is done doing that, there will be a rubber-band effect and Robotics will pull CE up even more. This is allowed to happen when both related products are underpriced. Great investment chance, I bought some. Trying to offload a few million units of CE? :) No, just disappointed I'm out of isk to buy more.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.07.10 20:05:00 - [56] Originally by: J'J'J'Jita Originally by: ZeJesus Originally by: J'J'J'Jita I agree with this. I thought CE would push Robotics up (and it has), but now it appears that after Consumer Electronics is done doing that, there will be a rubber-band effect and Robotics will pull CE up even more. This is allowed to happen when both related products are underpriced. Great investment chance, I bought some. Trying to offload a few million units of CE? :) No, just disappointed I'm out of isk to buy more. If you want to use yours as collateral for a loan so you can buy even more, let me know.
Icanti	Posted - 2010.07.10 21:01:00 - [57] Edited by: Icanti on 10/07/2010 21:00:53 So how long before these top out in price? Are we talking weeks or months? Right now the price in Dodixie is over 40k.
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.07.10 21:55:00 - [58] Weeks. Maybe less time, at that.
Haio	Posted - 2010.07.10 23:01:00 - [59] Well I am acutaly already succesfuly selling robotics at 50 000 - 60 000 in regions other than Forge. And there is not much of competition.
ZeJesus	Posted - 2010.07.10 23:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Haio Well I am acutaly already succesfuly selling robotics at 50 000 - 60 000 in regions other than Forge. And there is not much of competition. And you are sharing this valuable info for the common good, right? For the betterment of us all.

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