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RAW Materials 10bil Loan Bond - 120% collateral

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Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:04:00 - [91] Raw - Do you think 3% is appropriate for an unsecured bond in general? -GV
Krythas	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:40:00 - [92] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Raw - Do you think 3% is appropriate for an unsecured bond in general? -GV Does it matter if RAW thinks so or not ? I guess it is the investors that decide if it is appropriate or not and as an investor, I would answer 'yes' to this question in this instance. Keeping in mind of course that 'unsecured' and '3%' are not the only criteria taken into consideration when offering up investment capital.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.09 05:25:00 - [93] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 09/10/2010 05:27:56 Originally by: Krythas Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Raw - Do you think 3% is appropriate for an unsecured bond in general? -GV Does it matter if RAW thinks so or not ? I guess it is the investors that decide if it is appropriate or not and as an investor, I would answer 'yes' to this question in this instance. Keeping in mind of course that 'unsecured' and '3%' are not the only criteria taken into consideration when offering up investment capital. You don't look like RAW... Besides, that answer doesn't address the question. A better answer would be "It is appropriate to give investors whatever the lowest interest they will accept." This would both communicate your message AND actually respond to the question - that is... if you were RAW. -GV
RAW23	Posted - 2010.10.09 07:43:00 - [94] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Raw - Do you think 3% is appropriate for an unsecured bond in general? -GV No, I don't think there is any appropriate general rate. Rates will, primarily, be dependent on the actual offering and the market value of the offerer's debt. However, two other factors, each of which might pull in different directions, also need to be considered. Firstly, the interest rate that the business model can sustain - in the case of a financing business anything much over 3% will simply be unworkable. On the other hand, I am currently playing around with the data I collected on offerings to see whether the risk profiles of certain size offerings demand certain interest levels in order to be sensible investments. I am undecided on this issue at the moment but priliminary findings (such as the JTRI analysis of the investment market) suggest that low interest rates in certain brackets do not undermine the viability of the investment market as a whole and, so, are not 'irresponsible' (whether or not the responsibilty would lie with the offerer or investor if the findings were different is another matter). In any case, I would hope to offer somewhat higher interest rates in the future as and when my business models allow. What is your view on this? On another note, if you expect me to provide civil answers to your questions, please don't be rude to my investors. If you don't like what someone says on a public forum then feel free to ignore them. But don't tell them they have no right to post just because your question was addressed to a particular individual. If you want a private convo on these questions then mail or convo me in game. If you want to post questions publicly then you have to expect the normal rules of public discourse to apply, which will include other people chipping in.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.09 08:47:00 - [95] Originally by: RAW23 No, I don't think there is any appropriate general rate. Rates will, primarily, be dependent on the actual offering and the market value of the offerer's debt. It seems, strangely, that as debt increases the required interest rate in order to get funding actually seems to go down. I think this is counter intuitive at first, but I guess interest rates are more a matter of perceived trust almost entirely irrelevant of amount currently owed. I think the offeror is dispostive on the issue. Originally by: RAW23 However, two other factors, each of which might pull in different directions, also need to be considered. Firstly, the interest rate that the business model can sustain - in the case of a financing business anything much over 3% will simply be unworkable. On the other hand, I am currently playing around with the data I collected on offerings to see whether the risk profiles of certain size offerings demand certain interest levels in order to be sensible investments. I am undecided on this issue at the moment but priliminary findings (such as the JTRI analysis of the investment market) suggest that low interest rates in certain brackets do not undermine the viability of the investment market as a whole and, so, are not 'irresponsible' (whether or not the responsibilty would lie with the offerer or investor if the findings were different is another matter). In any case, I would hope to offer somewhat higher interest rates in the future as and when my business models allow. What is your view on this? I am not trying to suggest that an interest rate would be ôirresponsiblyö low; although I might argue there would be interest rates irresponsibly high û without including scam risk û if it were so oppressive as to not be possible with the business model. Interesting, have you considered that there simply might be a huge surplus of capital people are willing to invest and an insufficient supply of credible investments? It seems a lot of that analysis might run into issues with spurious relationships. Originally by: RAW23 On another note, if you expect me to provide civil answers to your questions, please don't be rude to my investors. If you don't like what someone says on a public forum then feel free to ignore them. But don't tell them they have no right to post just because your question was addressed to a particular individual. If you want a private convo on these questions then mail or convo me in game. If you want to post questions publicly then you have to expect the normal rules of public discourse to apply, which will include other people chipping in. While I am impressed with the valor of your rush to protect your investors (the ppl you depend on to give you apparently almost free isk), I actually missed to part of my response that said anything about claiming someone not to have a right to respond, or the suggestion that they needed you to defend them. On a side note û unfortunately, the subtleties of human emotion are generally lost in written language, but most of the things are post are a sort of teasing attitude at their most malicious. Thus, it hurts a little that you automatically impart rudeness in my posts -GV
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.09 10:04:00 - [96] Quote: It seems, strangely, that as debt increases the required interest rate in order to get funding actually seems to go down. I think this is counter intuitive at first, but I guess interest rates are more a matter of perceived trust almost entirely irrelevant of amount currently owed. It's because of: 1) Mechanics: it's easy to grind 10% interest on 1B or 7% on 4B but then it gets exponentially harder. This because a) Markets demands are not infinite and thus a glass ceiling appears once you go above 10-20B-ish b) 10% on 1B is 100M, 10% on 20B is 2B. Scaling up of capital does not correspond with same ability (also due to a) to scale up absolute interest amount paid. 2) Financial market: demand and offer meet. There's demand for solid and middle-to-large size investments (big investors don't like to have 200 small investments to pamper) and there's little offer like Raw23, so such offer is prized with a discount. Quote: On a side note û unfortunately, the subtleties of human emotion are generally lost in written language, but most of the things are post are a sort of teasing attitude at their most malicious. Thus, it hurts a little that you automatically impart rudeness in my posts I also post horribly and my posts seem rude. Instead of feeling hurt, I do the opposite and beg for pardon, because it's the others who should feel hurt by my inadeguacy not me. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
flakeys DRAMA Inc Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.10.09 10:08:00 - [97] Risk usually is not accounted for at the amount invested but the amount gained.That should be considered with X % returns on a loan.In other words i am running a high risk profile currently on the loans i have going with Rwz23 and others , however they net me approx 2 bille to 3 bille a month.I believe a lot of investors see it this way.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.11.07 12:17:00 - [98] Interest paid! Quick report: I now have just under 50bil invested and or loaned out with about 45bil of that being fully collateralised. My unsecured public exposure jumped this month from 30 bil (this bond plus a 10bil loan) to 45 bil due to me acting as third party for a bond. This is not something I intend to take on much more of as the payoff (100mil) is pretty low compared to the amount it changes my perceived risk profile (increase in unsecured holdings of 50% - I could be borrowing that and earning rather more dammit!).
flakeys DRAMA Inc Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.11.20 13:32:00 - [99] Confirming i received 10 bille unsecured loan back today from raw.This leaves my input in raw23 with a 15.5 B investment on this offer and a 10 bille secured loan. Thanks again raw23
RAW23	Posted - 2010.11.20 13:58:00 - [100] Just to keep my investors in the loop, my unsecured liabilities are now down to 35bil: this bond (20bil) and the collateral I'm holding for Tiberius Adama's bond (15bil). Depending on demand for loans I may seek to raise additional funds as and when needed but I currently have no plans to go beyond the general liability limits I have operated within so far during this bond.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.12.06 09:33:00 - [101] Interest paid. I have also paid off a fairly long standing secured loan to flakeys this month, so depending on demand I may be looking to raise another secured bond or loan in the near future.
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2010.12.06 10:14:00 - [102] Yup seen it i'll have a chat with you later on and arrange the return of the collateral.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.01.08 21:03:00 - [103] Edited by: RAW23 on 08/01/2011 21:10:27 Edited by: RAW23 on 08/01/2011 21:08:12 Interest paid. Six month anniversary Edit - A quick report on the loans business. Things have been going well on this front and I have consistently had 40bil plus out in loans for the last few months. Last month left a slightly unpleasant taste in my mouth as I had to repossess and liquidate 35bil of collateral, which wasn't much fun at all. The highest figure so far has been 70bil on loan for a month. I'm quite happy to sit at 40bil though (the total of this bond and my secured bond) as I intend to get some industrial projects going soon so I want to use my isk a bit more actively. On a side note, flipping Nyx BPOs is quite rewarding, if anyone wants to give that a try. I turned over three in 2 weeks for a 10% total profit at little effort but, again, decided to withdraw from that market so as to use my cash more actively. Edit2 - Total unsecured exposure is just this bond at present. The 15.3bil of collateral I was holding for the Adama bond has been returned and I have no other unsecured loans outstanding. This does not take into account the collateral I still hold on my own loans though. At present this amounts to something like 10bil over the loan values, so another 10bil that is in my hands unsecured.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.01.21 20:06:00 - [104] A quick note to investors: flakeys has just offered me a 20bil uncollateralised loan so I will be paying off my collateralised bond tomorrow and reclaiming my stuff Current total unsecured liability is now 40bil.
Punker Adagear	Posted - 2011.01.24 03:26:00 - [105] Glad to hear things are going good =) ------------------------------------------------ Manchester meet, Sat 19th Feb 2011 Join Ingame channel Manc-meet
RAW23	Posted - 2011.02.08 14:09:00 - [106] Interest paid! Enjoy.
flakeys DRAMA Inc Sev3rance	Posted - 2011.02.08 15:51:00 - [107] received thanks
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.14 02:11:00 - [108] RAW23 tasked me with preparing a full audit of his operation. It has been a massive undertaking so I beg pardon for any accounting glitches you might see. The full audit is available at this location. I strongly suggest to read the above page as it's of much higher visual quality than the forum compatible version. The investment has been assigned NEISIN code MRBHDYZBO078. A forum compatible version will also be posted shortly, please allow me to post all of the parts without replying in between. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.14 02:15:00 - [109] Consulting _________________________________________________ Snapshot audit report for RAW23 business proposal This is Vaerah VahrokhaÆs analysis as of 2011-02-10 20:00 EvE Time. NEISIN code: MRBHDYZBO078. Official discussion: link to investment prospectus. Public Audits Record (PAR) for this investment: backlink. Tools used EvE Wallet Aware jEveAssets EvEMeep EvEMon NEISIN MicrosoftÖ Excel« Blender 3D => LuxRender Paint.NET => Bolt Bait Pack, DPY Plugins, MadJik Pack, Vandermotten Effects Forewords about the Audit RAW23 is an high sec trader but also a manufacturer and much else. Through a series of bonds (this is the 7th) he managed to grow a sensible NAV for a 2009 player. He has asked for a snapshot of his salient data and requested a report about some specific informations. Generalities Main character for this proposal is RAW23. RAW23 has executed an aggressive characters purchasing strategy so that he currently owns six accounts. He has got 18 characters at hand, most of them handpicked with task oriented training, some have a noticeable amount of skill points. Among the various characters, there are skills for basically everything, often in multiple copies. Through his alts, RAW23 may manufacture big time and operate with almost any kind of science and industry. He has also multiple characters for trading, hauling (including Jump Freighters), PvP, PvE (multiple factions), exploreà usually in multiple instances of each specialty. RAW23, is an August 2009 character with just 663,913 SP. This is because RAW23 is the character that has become known on the forums, the ôpublic faceö. Other characters are quite more developed. One of them is an Apr 2005 one and has 51.6M SP, many of the others range from 25M to 33M. The total SP of all his characters at the time of the data snapshot was: 301,486,852 (301M). CharactersÆ history check RAW23 requested an in depth charactersÆ history check. Here are the findings: Total amount of post checked, one by one: 2586. Most of the characters have a sizable employment history and have been bought in the Character Bazaar. RAW has a copious history of posts in that forum (using other alts, some disclosed in his bonds). They are all about buying characters, not selling. One of the characters has been bought and sold at least two times before ending in RAW23 possession. Out of all the characters purchases, all may be easily tracked to RAW23 (using one of the other alts) except three: In one of them, he states he purchased a character with an alt he biomassed later (thus leaving no direct tracks). Two other purchases appear to be made with characters he does not own. He spent a good deal of time explaining the intricacies of his business partnerships that seem to also include characters purchases on behalf of others. There are also some small donations to said player. While the explanation sounded convincing enough, thereÆs no proof nor written record that allow to precisely track the missing links. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.14 02:22:00 - [110] NAV and accounting RAW23 business includes the most diverse activities, including loans and collateral holding. Thus a straight and automatic NAV calculation has not been possible. RAW23 has also asked for some additional entries to be included. Therefore a manual approach has been used, where entries have been API checked (where applicable) and categorized as follows: Characters value Credits => Investment securities Credits => Interest receivable Liabilities => Loans payable Liabilities => Interest payable Collateral kept Donations => Equity transactions Wallets values less the values held for third parties Assets values less the values of the assets held as collateral Net Asset Value As it's possible to see, what follows is a number of accounts that at the end of the document are consolidated into the final NAV statement. Characters value As per RAW23 request, since he considers his characters as something quantifiable (he purchased them), the total SP has been calculated and given an ISK value with his own formula: Value = SP * 250. The total SP at the time of the data snapshot was: 301,486,852 (301M). The total value is: 75,371,713,000 (75.371B). Credits => Investment securities These are outstanding credits to be paid to RAW23. Entries with links point to the relevant investment thread. Cash Lauren Hellfury 0.100B Kei darker 2.000B Arcy Dorei 0.500B Undisclosed () 7.000B Mickov Brat 4.000B Undisclosed () 0.500B Undisclosed () 7.500B Undisclosed () 0.800B Mechtech 9.000B Loan to an undisclosed corporation ()35.000B _________________________________ Total:66.400B* () Confirmed with in game inquiry or API check. Credits => Interest receivable* These are outstanding credits interests to be paid to RAW23. Only published investments and API verificable transactions were included. Total interest receivable: 1.380B. Liabilities => Loans payable These are outstanding loans RAW23 has to pay: Cash Flakeys, Krythas, Martosh Toma20.000B Flakeys20.000B _________________________________________ Total:40.000B Liabilities => Interest payable These are outstanding credits interests to be paid to RAW23. Only published investments and API verificable transactions were included. Total interest receivable: 1.200B. Collateral Kept For privacy reasons the exact assets names and locations wonÆt be disclosed. They have been verified with API and / or contract. Collateral will not be added to the final balance sheet as itÆs not a real RAW23 possession. Assets Blueprints27.805B Collateral made of speculative items17.440B Miscellaneous collateral kept in containers 3.234B _________________________________________________________ Total:48.479B - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.14 02:26:00 - [111] Donations => Equity transactions These would figure as liabilities. Cash Undisclosed ()0.500B Undisclosed ()1.000B VahrokhÆs Ethical Fund of Funds [MRVAHFTFF016]0.100B _________________________________ Total:1.600B () Confirmed with in game inquiry or API check. Assets and balance* These are the RAW23 possessions, excluding all of the other accounts listed in the previous chapters. In previous audits, this chapter is usually called ôNet Asset Value and other balance considerationsö, while in RAW23 case his total assets are just an account among several others. Balance Wallet balance: 8.717B Market sell-orders: 1.458B Market escrow: 0.671B Contracts: 0.000B _________________________________ *Total ():10.846B** Assets Miscellaneous U.S.B.A. (): 3.657B Fleet / ships (unfitted): 3.834B Modules: 1.869B Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice etc.:59.118B Blueprint originals: 2.582B 1985 Blueprint copies (): 1.773B Other* Accessories: 3.276B Charges: 0.114B Commodities: 0.439B Drones: 0.021B Ordered assets under construction: 0.000B Planetary items or resources: 37.638B Ship components: 0.000B General or classified items: 21.134B _________________________________________________ Total:135.455B Estimated assets and balance grand total: 146.301 Billion ISK (**) The above evaluations were made by using The Forge prices as reference. () U.B.S.A. => Undisclosed Business Strategic Assets. (*) 1985 blueprint copies: 78 BPC types were manually searched on contracts and priced with the conservative formula: (Max + Min) 100 / 205 unless they only had one item or all same price items. (**) The Forge prices have been used. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.02.14 02:30:00 - [112] NAV (Net Asset Value) This is the sum of all the previous balances. It is: NAV = Assets û Liabilities. Assets Cash and cash equivalents 10.846B Note receivable 0.000B Investment securities 66.400B Interest receivable 1.380B Due from other funds 0.000B Inventory, personal assets135.455B Inventory, characters 75.371B _________________________________________ Total Assets289.452B Liabilities Note payable 0.000B Loans payable, net 40.000B Interest payable 1.200B Equity transactions 1.600B Refundable advances 0.000B _________________________________________ Total Liabilities 42.800B _________________________________________ Net Asset Value:246.652B Disclaimers Due to stringent EvE API limitations, although the information provided to you on this document is obtained or compiled from sources believed to be reliable, Vahrokh Consulting cannot and does not guarantee the accuracy, validity, timeliness, or completeness of any information or data made available to you for any particular purpose. This Auditor is actively and passionately against any breach of privacy, in particular regarding in game mail API access. Therefore no information will ever be gathered and no audit will ever be released that will contain any element found by eavesdropping someone else's private communications. Neither the information nor any opinion contained in this document constitutes a solicitation or offer by Vahrokh Consulting or its affiliates to buy or sell any securities, assets or services. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2011.02.14 09:21:00 - [113] Well, as one of the guys doing business with raw since 2009 when he was shipping stuff from amarr to jita and supplying me with reasonably priced stuff, i have to say congrats on your very impressive development. Always a pleasure doing business with you! (and damn, boy you are rich ffs )
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2011.02.14 10:43:00 - [114] Congrats RAW
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.02.14 10:47:00 - [115] From shrimp to shrek ..
Kters Tail	Posted - 2011.02.14 13:32:00 - [116] Well done RAW, a most impressive number!
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.02.14 13:38:00 - [117] Congrats RAW, you're richer than I thought before! .. and VV, beautiful work :D
Rykker Bow	Posted - 2011.02.14 13:43:00 - [118] That's quite a NAV! Congrats
egola Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.14 14:04:00 - [119] Bah, i knew raw was just an alt! a JI SAMA ALT!! dun dun dunnnnn
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.14 14:10:00 - [120] Isn't that about as much as Ricdic made off with? When did RAW start again?

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