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Zentrie
Minmatar
Department of Redundancy Department
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Posted - 2010.07.15 20:57:00 -
[61]
I am still fairly new to this game but I have been reading around the forums to catch up on some of the news and issues of the past and present.
As far as the learning skills in Eve go, I was wondering if there was ever a suggestion of changing the skill system entirely. Not ripping it apart and starting over, but changing parts of it slightly to modify the learning aspect to work better for others and start off new accounts in the right direction.
Would it be possible for an account in its infancy (30-60 days) to be allowed to train two skills at once. Weather both train at the same speed OR different levels of skills train at different speeds such as 1X will train at 100% - 2X (1st will train at 100% and 2nd will train at 50%) as an example. If the 1x multiplier on learning being classified with too many other skills (which it does share with many) it can be reclassified. OR have learning abilities train at 100% and any and all other abilities train at 25-50% or which ever percent is felt adiquate given the skills.
Its a rough draft idea, but it might solve some of the problem with new people joining the game. They are able to train their learning skills while still learning combat skills, even though the combat skills are being learned at a slower pace, it is cutting back their "space station" time considerably.
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Pantload
Gallente
The Underpants Gnomes
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.07.15 21:00:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Jasdemi
Edited by: Jasdemi on 15/07/2010 20:37:42
So much attention. I luv you guys. :)
And yeah, to stay on-topic, learnings will be removed. <3
Originally by: Jasdemi
I've never said that the removal of learnings is set in stone.
So much for that... 
As always:
"CCP has made no kind of official statement regarding the guaranteed removal of learning skills from the game."
You keep claiming the imminent removal of learnings as though it is a fact. I have challenged you to at least explore other possibilities and other avenues to compromise and you refuse. You continue trolling, annoying, and rumor-mongering. You've been asked to stop but you are apparently enjoying this too much. Which is fine by me because I'm enjoying this immensely. I'll be more than content to debate this with you ad nauseum. Luckily for me, you're not much of a debater. More like a broken record that keeps skipping and playing the same snippet over and over again.
TUG: The Underpants Gnomes.
Buy Corps here
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Pantload
Gallente
The Underpants Gnomes
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.07.15 21:10:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Zentrie
I am still fairly new to this game but I have been reading around the forums to catch up on some of the news and issues of the past and present.
As far as the learning skills in Eve go, I was wondering if there was ever a suggestion of changing the skill system entirely. Not ripping it apart and starting over, but changing parts of it slightly to modify the learning aspect to work better for others and start off new accounts in the right direction.
Would it be possible for an account in its infancy (30-60 days) to be allowed to train two skills at once. Weather both train at the same speed OR different levels of skills train at different speeds such as 1X will train at 100% - 2X (1st will train at 100% and 2nd will train at 50%) as an example. If the 1x multiplier on learning being classified with too many other skills (which it does share with many) it can be reclassified. OR have learning abilities train at 100% and any and all other abilities train at 25-50% or which ever percent is felt adiquate given the skills.
Its a rough draft idea, but it might solve some of the problem with new people joining the game. They are able to train their learning skills while still learning combat skills, even though the combat skills are being learned at a slower pace, it is cutting back their "space station" time considerably.
Something like this has been proposed at least a time or two. From what I recall, CCP shot that idea down straightaway as being something difficult, impossible, or undesirable to implement under the current skill system. Probably not a simple thing to code and could include considerable refactoring/rewriting of portions of the skill training system and the skill system interface. Plus the issues of what exact boundaries to place on allowing this sort of thing. Anyway, sorry to say, that one is probably not happening which is a pity because it's not a bad compromise.
TUG: The Underpants Gnomes.
Buy Corps here
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Askae Boath
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:13:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tarasina
Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 17:15:12
Originally by: Pantload
*snipping*
Why the hell are you entitled to a big fat free bonus?
The current proposal to remove the skill from the game and just give everybody a bonus as though they had them trained to max is nothing but a welfare program. that.
*snip*
Big fat free bonus? Currently it takes 2.5 years for me to see any benefit of training learning skills further. Big? No. Fat? No. Free? I'd be satisfied if my attribs were kept where they are now.
And about the suffering:
If a new player finds the learning skills so detrimental that they will quit the game, I would say that they are suffering and not only that. The GAME itself is suffering.
IME, most of the guys who get so uppity about the learning skills that they quit over them are the same guys I didn't like being surrounded by in other games. The game experience, for me at least, is better for their lack; and I'm guessing that's true for most of the vets as well who are in favor of keeping the learning skills.
It's not about wanting the newbs to suffer as they did; it's about wanting to maintain the ratio of certain personality types in the game.
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Damien Larkspur
Imperial Syndicate Forces
En Garde
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Posted - 2010.07.16 21:16:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Damien Larkspur on 16/07/2010 21:18:56
I doubt that the learning skills will be removed from the game.
1. If they are removed from the game, then everyone would need to be given a bonus amount of attribute points that would match the amount of fully trained skills. Otherwise, all trainings will drops to a snails pace and be slower for EVERYONE.
2. If the attributes are given out to everyone, especially from the beginning, and no compensation is made to the players that took the time to train up the skills "the hard way" that would ultimately be unfair to those who trained the skills versus those who didn't have to train the skills but got the full benefit anyway.
3. If the skill learnings are removed, then you would need to refund the skill points that people trained in the learning skills. If those aren't refunded then EVERYONE who trained those skills will be highly torqued as they will have wasted days and months to train those skills as if they had played the game for 3 months but forgot to train.
5.If you refund the skill points for those who took the time to train, you would then have to find a way to compensate the older generation for the time they spent without the benefit of the advanced attribute points that newbies would be given. The only way I can see avoiding that revolt would be to a "comp time" system. Basically.figure out the difference in SP from the time you start training the learning skills to when the skills are completed times the amount of time per skill.
Basically... (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 1 learning skill was training)*Time to Train + (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 2 learning skill was training)*Time to Train + (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 3 learning skill was training)*Time to Train + (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 4 learning skill was training)*Time to Train + (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 5 learning skill was training)*Time to Train + (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 1 Int skill was training)*Time to Train + (Skill points/hr when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points/hr when level 1 Mem skill was training)*Time to Train + etc etc etc....
This would, in effect, give the older players a partial compensation from taking the time to train obsolete skills. This would allow older players to think that their time wasn't wasted and that they aren't being penalized harshly for starting the game when they did. Obviously, this formula would only compensate to the skill level trained. If you only trained lvl 4 Learning, you don't get the skill points from (Skill points when Int/Mem/Learning are trained to full - Skill Points when level 5 learning skill was training).
New players no longer have to train learning skills, everyone learns at the same rate, older players are not penalized so harshly by the removal of one of their major timesinks.
This is only a rough proposal, thought up at work, without access to any of my EVE stuff other than these forums, lol, so treat this proposal like you do all other rough drafts. With a grain of salt.
Damien Larkspur |
AngelOfLight
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Posted - 2010.07.18 02:59:00 -
[66]
I'm a vet, I'm not cranky. I don't particularly like the leraning skills.
I see the valid points on both side of the arguement. It is my opinion that the advanced learning skills should be removed and the basics kept intact. I think that ll palyers should have at least the OPTION to train a skill that will help their other training. That said I think that advanced training is silly, if CCP are that concerned about slow training speed they should increase base attributes on all charcters and skill points that were trained on each character in adv leanring can be given back as a skillpoint pool for the player to reallocate.
That way we get to do away with the major timesink of learning while still keeping them relevant to all players.
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Xavia Cameron
Caldari
Capital Core Collectives
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Posted - 2010.07.18 09:13:00 -
[67]
Learning skills, at thier core, act as the first interaction a player has with one of the most important ideals in eve; Look before you leap. Those that ONLY train them because they are told or thing they will fail without,will wind up frustrated and leaving. Good.
They encourage foresight, planning and research in order to remove or punish those who are unwilling to practice them.
The problem is the current advice is apparently "max learning, just do it." As has been said before, that advice needs to be download eve-mon, pick a goal. Do what it says.
I never wasted time getting learning skills, they saved me weeks learning to fly interceptors (My first T2 ship)
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Fix Clone Vat Bays
Fix Local
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Croesus
Caldari
Titan Indurstrial
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Posted - 2010.07.18 19:02:00 -
[68]
Learning skills are stupid. CCP should destroy them.
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Warcoder
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Posted - 2010.07.19 10:30:00 -
[69]
Great stuff, keep going with the system.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.07.19 13:08:00 -
[70]
Nearly maxed out learning skiller (no Presence) here!
Imo those ppl advising newbies "do not undock with your learning skills maxed out" cause a lot of this problem. What is wrong with IMMEDIATLY undocking and doing the tutorials (as i did). You can buy a dessy with those rewards, doing L1 and L2¦s, you can mount mining lasers on it and go right to the belts.
There is NO need to stay docked because of fear, when you stay in highsec and keep your ship insured not even a gank would do too much harm (if you keep in mind Eve¦s rule Nr.1 "dont fly.....").
Now even as a starter you directly can participate in PI clickfest after some skilling.
So, in my mind there¦s nothing wrong atm, all i can see are jealous ppl, not investing to learning skills realizing that +5 implants are expensive as hell and getting destroyed when podded.
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Hoxillian Montgomery
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.07.22 04:32:00 -
[71]
Originally by: My Postman
...So, in my mind there¦s nothing wrong atm, all i can see are jealous ppl, not investing to learning skills realizing that +5 implants are expensive as hell and getting destroyed when podded.
To be fair, them implants are expensive. But that's not enough not to say the whole Learning skill mechanic is broken.
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Dominique Lions
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Posted - 2010.07.22 19:50:00 -
[72]
I started the game about a month ago and have 4/4 learning abilities and I did not stay docked. I got right out there and did the tutorials and even threw in some other skills between learning things so I could use other items while I was moving along. Its all a matter of choice. The people that complain are the people that want the game to be easy right off the bat because they are use to games coming easy.
There are ways to create a compromise and is it necessary? No.
Might they same day, sure.
Will people complain if there is no compromise? Yes
If they did create a compromise, would people still complain about the compromise, OF COURSE!
People will ALWAYS complain. And they say the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but this wheel has grease from what I can see and a lot of people agree. And then there are the folks that just don't seem to like the brand of grease that the CCP used on these wheels.
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Aya Otosaki
Titan Indurstrial
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Posted - 2010.07.22 21:20:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Aya Otosaki on 22/07/2010 21:20:38
these skills are just bad gamedesign. making bad design is a mistake. not rectifying bad design is another. fair does not trump good design.
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Ignorance is my strength. |
Argos Dracon
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.07.23 03:27:00 -
[74]
How long has Learning skills been in the game? About 4-5 years? People please stop whining about them, they're not going anywhere.
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"They say the mind bends and twists to deal with the horrors of life... I think mine bent so much it snapped in two. A man cannot hide from himself; |
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