EVE Search - Whats the point flying a high end cruiser...

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Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:48:00 - [61] Kayosoni, no offence, but 30 feet or 30km i can smash frigates without thought - and thats with railguns. the "cant track in-close" just doesnt work anymore.
Morkt Drakt Caldari Black Omega Security	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:48:00 - [62] Kayosoni, no offence, but 30 feet or 30km i can smash frigates without thought - and thats with railguns. the "cant track in-close" just doesnt work anymore.
Kayosoni	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:50:00 - [63] Well, it works less for me. I can still hit for 150 at 1km but not nearly as often as 10km or more. And scy, the game already shoudl work like that. The optimal range IS the reverse fall-off point in a way... though apparently it doesn't work very well... Scy, what you are basically saying is that Frigs take out battleships, cruisers take out frigates, and battleships take out cruisers. The one problem with this is that we can never have such a high-scale battle to allow for the amount of each ship type required to take out the other type. There aren't going to be 50 people battles like you could have in an RTS like homeworld. You will say that you could do it with perhap 10 players, 1 battleships, 3 cruisers, 6 frigates. The one problem with this is that battleships and cruiser have so much more defense than a frigate that such a small amount of frigates would have no chance of ever killing their targets. Edited by: Kayosoni on 28/06/2003 00:56:32 ----------------------------------- Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:50:00 - [64] To expand on other people's suggestions, here's what I'm thinking: A 250mm Rail for example, with an optimum range of 25km, should have 20km falloff that would work both ways. By the time something is 10km away from your cruiser, you do say 75% damage, and by the time it's within 5km, you hardly do any at all. This way, cruisers will have to slightly specialize. The ion blasters etc will become frigate swatters, while 250mm rails will be more for cruiser to cruiser combat. Battleships should have an optimum range of 40km, falloff 30km, and absolutely NO battleship gun should hit anything within 2km of it. Oh and this would definitely take a lot of chaos testing with say 1 cruiser vs 3 frigates, 1 battleship vs 3 cruisers, etc etc, and I volunteer :D Edited by: Master Scy on 28/06/2003 00:52:17 ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Master Scy Caldari	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:50:00 - [65] To expand on other people's suggestions, here's what I'm thinking: A 250mm Rail for example, with an optimum range of 25km, should have 20km falloff that would work both ways. By the time something is 10km away from your cruiser, you do say 75% damage, and by the time it's within 5km, you hardly do any at all. This way, cruisers will have to slightly specialize. The ion blasters etc will become frigate swatters, while 250mm rails will be more for cruiser to cruiser combat. Battleships should have an optimum range of 40km, falloff 30km, and absolutely NO battleship gun should hit anything within 2km of it. Oh and this would definitely take a lot of chaos testing with say 1 cruiser vs 3 frigates, 1 battleship vs 3 cruisers, etc etc, and I volunteer :D Edited by: Master Scy on 28/06/2003 00:52:17 ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:50:00 - [66] Well, it works less for me. I can still hit for 150 at 1km but not nearly as often as 10km or more. And scy, the game already shoudl work like that. The optimal range IS the reverse fall-off point in a way... though apparently it doesn't work very well... Scy, what you are basically saying is that Frigs take out battleships, cruisers take out frigates, and battleships take out cruisers. The one problem with this is that we can never have such a high-scale battle to allow for the amount of each ship type required to take out the other type. There aren't going to be 50 people battles like you could have in an RTS like homeworld. You will say that you could do it with perhap 10 players, 1 battleships, 3 cruisers, 6 frigates. The one problem with this is that battleships and cruiser have so much more defense than a frigate that such a small amount of frigates would have no chance of ever killing their targets. Edited by: Kayosoni on 28/06/2003 00:56:32 ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:54:00 - [67] Kay - yeah but the "Not nearly as often" doesn't matter when one broadside obliterates any frigate even with a "scratch".. even so i "know" im hitting frigates too often with railguns up close... it doesn't feel anything like it should - or how i used to rough up cruisers from the other side. "Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from 3 feet away" is what it should be like. (doubly/trebly so for a battleship) EDIt: Unless using close-quarter weapons obviously Edited by: Morkt Drak on 28/06/2003 00:55:40
Morkt Drakt Caldari Black Omega Security	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:54:00 - [68] Kay - yeah but the "Not nearly as often" doesn't matter when one broadside obliterates any frigate even with a "scratch".. even so i "know" im hitting frigates too often with railguns up close... it doesn't feel anything like it should - or how i used to rough up cruisers from the other side. "Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from 3 feet away" is what it should be like. (doubly/trebly so for a battleship) EDIt: Unless using close-quarter weapons obviously Edited by: Morkt Drak on 28/06/2003 00:55:40
Pudee	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:57:00 - [69] I always imagined it would be as Jash has said. I even remember quotes from the devs specificaly saying that if a frigate was lucky enough to get close to a cruiser it could cause it some real problems, so where did it all go wrong ? Are tracking speeds broken, I remember taking on NPC cruisers in beta with a rifter and once you got in to a tight orbit on them you noticed a reduced amount of hits. Ah well who knows I suppose we'd all better just get used to being 3 or 4 hit kills for the next class up.
Pudee	Posted - 2003.06.28 00:57:00 - [70] I always imagined it would be as Jash has said. I even remember quotes from the devs specificaly saying that if a frigate was lucky enough to get close to a cruiser it could cause it some real problems, so where did it all go wrong ? Are tracking speeds broken, I remember taking on NPC cruisers in beta with a rifter and once you got in to a tight orbit on them you noticed a reduced amount of hits. Ah well who knows I suppose we'd all better just get used to being 3 or 4 hit kills for the next class up.
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.06.28 01:04:00 - [71] Kayosoni, the frigates could of course be replaced by cruisers equipped for close range combat, but this way frigates would always have a place.. They will be a viable strategy for sinking solo battleships.. Sacrifice someone to get a nice bookmark, distrubute the bookmark, and have 10 frigates warp in too close to a battleship for it to kill them before they get within 2km :) Edited by: Master Scy on 28/06/2003 01:05:53 ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Master Scy Caldari	Posted - 2003.06.28 01:04:00 - [72] Kayosoni, the frigates could of course be replaced by cruisers equipped for close range combat, but this way frigates would always have a place.. They will be a viable strategy for sinking solo battleships.. Sacrifice someone to get a nice bookmark, distrubute the bookmark, and have 10 frigates warp in too close to a battleship for it to kill them before they get within 2km :) Edited by: Master Scy on 28/06/2003 01:05:53 ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.28 01:34:00 - [73] The other thing about the situation that I described is it's more likely to include more people across the playerbase in the fighting, which makes things more fun. It provides a role for everyone at the level they're able to participate. As for the lag issues and large scale battles, we have to believe eventually CCP will figure out what's wrong in their code and fix it. But even before they fix it, even small scale battles would be more frequent and more enjoyable as everyone would be able to participate at some level. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.28 01:34:00 - [74] The other thing about the situation that I described is it's more likely to include more people across the playerbase in the fighting, which makes things more fun. It provides a role for everyone at the level they're able to participate. As for the lag issues and large scale battles, we have to believe eventually CCP will figure out what's wrong in their code and fix it. But even before they fix it, even small scale battles would be more frequent and more enjoyable as everyone would be able to participate at some level. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Salgurdar	Posted - 2003.06.28 04:56:00 - [75] Another solution to this problem would be to have damage and "to hit" modifiers dependent on the size difference of a ship. Battleships could be at a disadvantage trying to target lower class ships, unless they are equiped with similar class weapons. ie. A battleship armed with 1200mm arties should find it very difficult to hit a smaller craft, as large class turrets are designed to target large class ships. And the reverse could be applied to smaller weapons with respect to damage (as it really is already). Firing a dual 250mm 'scout' artillery at a battleship would simply result in a nice plinking sound, and that's about it. Staggering the modifiers so that a, say, a cruiser armed with medium weapons would be destroyed quite quickly (not in 4 seconds) having done a reputable amount of damage to a battleship would extend combat alot. The battleship would miss quite a bit, but when it hit, it would really hurt the cruiser, but the cruiser would hit more often than it would against another cruiser (seems logical, shoot a rifle at a mini, then shoot at a bus, which is easier to hit) but would do a slightly lower average damage. This is a tested method for combat, as many tabletop games use size modifiers to make combat less of a "he who has the biggest stick wins" affair. This would also at least give a solo cruiser pilot a fighting chance to retreat from a battleship, rather than "Oooo look I'm being targetted by something, let me see what the info says....." BOOM BOOM BOOM. Now there are alot of tactics that can be employed by cruiser pilots, there is even a tactic that will allow a single cruiser to take out a a single battleship. Jamming, weapon disruption etc. But as it stands, if you're equipped for npc hunting in a cruiser, you will always be owned by a battleship before you have time to react. Needs to be fixed. "We all know what we are, we're just haggling about the price" - W.C. Fields Rolschau > anyway... because some jerk today... (it is soon 5 am) will turn on the smoke alarm all over the place and then go inside our room to check.. then I will stay up and not get a shock while sleeping and die.... I will be playing eve untill the jerk shows up
Salgurdar Amarr STK Scientific	Posted - 2003.06.28 04:56:00 - [76] Another solution to this problem would be to have damage and "to hit" modifiers dependent on the size difference of a ship. Battleships could be at a disadvantage trying to target lower class ships, unless they are equiped with similar class weapons. ie. A battleship armed with 1200mm arties should find it very difficult to hit a smaller craft, as large class turrets are designed to target large class ships. And the reverse could be applied to smaller weapons with respect to damage (as it really is already). Firing a dual 250mm 'scout' artillery at a battleship would simply result in a nice plinking sound, and that's about it. Staggering the modifiers so that a, say, a cruiser armed with medium weapons would be destroyed quite quickly (not in 4 seconds) having done a reputable amount of damage to a battleship would extend combat alot. The battleship would miss quite a bit, but when it hit, it would really hurt the cruiser, but the cruiser would hit more often than it would against another cruiser (seems logical, shoot a rifle at a mini, then shoot at a bus, which is easier to hit) but would do a slightly lower average damage. This is a tested method for combat, as many tabletop games use size modifiers to make combat less of a "he who has the biggest stick wins" affair. This would also at least give a solo cruiser pilot a fighting chance to retreat from a battleship, rather than "Oooo look I'm being targetted by something, let me see what the info says....." BOOM BOOM BOOM. Now there are alot of tactics that can be employed by cruiser pilots, there is even a tactic that will allow a single cruiser to take out a a single battleship. Jamming, weapon disruption etc. But as it stands, if you're equipped for npc hunting in a cruiser, you will always be owned by a battleship before you have time to react. Needs to be fixed. Peace, Love, Yarrrrrr
Molly	Posted - 2003.06.28 05:01:00 - [77] Very good ideas Salgurdar. You might want to repost them in the idea lab or patch review. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Molly Gallente Doomheim	Posted - 2003.06.28 05:01:00 - [78] Very good ideas Salgurdar. You might want to repost them in the idea lab or patch review. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Demangel	Posted - 2003.06.28 08:18:00 - [79] The saddest part is, is how obvious the solutions are to a very obvious problem. Nobody here is saying: A lone frigate should be able to go toe to toe with a cruiser, let alone a battleship and always be able to win. It's plainly simple to anyone who remotely watches the history channel that bigger isn't always better for every role. Do you send in a large bomber to kill 2 dozen fighters? Do you send in one cruiser to knock out 2 dozen frigates? It's all about force multiplication and tactics. As I sit here in my Exequror, I Look at the shields and the weapons slots ETC of this low end cruiser. I think to myself. Ok I have four turrets... 1 Medium 250MM hybrid for the long range shots and for obviouse defense against cruisers. These things do nice damage at the right ranges, making most NPC pirate frigates I tend to run into die in 2-4 shots or less... Thats Just as it should be. But then they get into mid and close range. My shots still tend to hit very often and still do enough damage to be worth shooting with. At 1 KM I might miss quite a lot more, but I should in fact hit maybe 1 out of ten times at best unless the target is sitting still in space... But how often do I hit? more like 4 out of six times, Sure it might not be for 70-190HP damsage like it can do at range, but even if it's pumping out 10 HP hits it's worth the ammo most times. So what else do I use? A pair of 150MM rails (one carbide), and a 125MM rail (also carbide). In theory the 150's should be all but useless at 1KM range, in fact THEY should hit about as often for similar damage as my 250MM rail does. My 125MM should be activated near the end of my optimal firing range of my 150's making up for thier lack of stopping power. How often and how hard do THEY hit at about 1KM? they NEVER miss, and more than 2/3 of the shots do 17 damage or more. Yes I have motion prediction, and yes I do have a damage/turret speed/ROF booster on my ship... But this is insane. I should NEED a blaster or good projectile S turret on my cruiser for the close ranges. But I really don't. IF eve worked properly the following would occur. At ships of equal size if the ship is closer than the proper ranges it should get a more or less standard modifier to hit and damage based on movement of course of both parties... If a small weapon is fired at a LARGER ship irregardless of range, it's to hit (but not damage) modifier should be IMPROVED IE a frigate should be able to theoretically hit a cruiser farther away than a frigate. If a cruiser is engaging a frigate however, It's small turrets should behave like a frigates to hit (standard modifier). It's medium turrets should be at a disadvantage when striking frigates, irregardless of range. If that same cruiser goes against another Cruiser the Frigate sized turrets should get the same BONUS a frigate would get for the to hit roll and the medium turrets would get the standard modifiers. Against a battleship the medium turrets would behave like a small turret against a cruiser. They would get a slight boost to the to hit score irregardless of range. The small guns should get an even BIGGER boost than they would against a cruiser. In this way a frigate would have an advantage especialy at close range, a cruiser would have an advatage on a battleship at near range, and both a frigate and a cruiser would have an advantage on a battleship at close range. If the battleship captain forgot his escort, or didn't put at least one medium and small turret on his ship, he should be toastable even by a fairly small number of ships so long as they are in close range. No need to boost damages, reduce damages, boost defenses ETC. Just make range work more like it's advertised. The whole point of eve was that after a few weeks or so of playing you are a valuable member of ANY team in ANY area of the game. Naturaly a cruiser is MORE valuable, but not so much so that 5-10 frigates stand little or no chance against even one lone Exequror If the combat starts with both groups at 25KM from one another. I also say all this because of what I stated above... In real life of course one on one a battleship would obliterate a frigate but thats because a battleship has a minimal compliment of point defense weapons to use against smaller attack craft. It's huge city leveling cannons would not only be a waste of ammo on the frigate, but would likely miss! For those who say so what this is a game... thats fine... But I'm telling you, if the game DOES continue to stay at the current level of strategy (cruisers or better or forget PVP) for more than 6 months, you might as well kiss my subscription goodbye... because unless I find something else worth doing, I know I will not be interested in PVP... Even if I DO have a battleship. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Demangel Gallente	Posted - 2003.06.28 08:18:00 - [80] The saddest part is, is how obvious the solutions are to a very obvious problem. Nobody here is saying: A lone frigate should be able to go toe to toe with a cruiser, let alone a battleship and always be able to win. It's plainly simple to anyone who remotely watches the history channel that bigger isn't always better for every role. Do you send in a large bomber to kill 2 dozen fighters? Do you send in one cruiser to knock out 2 dozen frigates? It's all about force multiplication and tactics. As I sit here in my Exequror, I Look at the shields and the weapons slots ETC of this low end cruiser. I think to myself. Ok I have four turrets... 1 Medium 250MM hybrid for the long range shots and for obviouse defense against cruisers. These things do nice damage at the right ranges, making most NPC pirate frigates I tend to run into die in 2-4 shots or less... Thats Just as it should be. But then they get into mid and close range. My shots still tend to hit very often and still do enough damage to be worth shooting with. At 1 KM I might miss quite a lot more, but I should in fact hit maybe 1 out of ten times at best unless the target is sitting still in space... But how often do I hit? more like 4 out of six times, Sure it might not be for 70-190HP damsage like it can do at range, but even if it's pumping out 10 HP hits it's worth the ammo most times. So what else do I use? A pair of 150MM rails (one carbide), and a 125MM rail (also carbide). In theory the 150's should be all but useless at 1KM range, in fact THEY should hit about as often for similar damage as my 250MM rail does. My 125MM should be activated near the end of my optimal firing range of my 150's making up for thier lack of stopping power. How often and how hard do THEY hit at about 1KM? they NEVER miss, and more than 2/3 of the shots do 17 damage or more. Yes I have motion prediction, and yes I do have a damage/turret speed/ROF booster on my ship... But this is insane. I should NEED a blaster or good projectile S turret on my cruiser for the close ranges. But I really don't. IF eve worked properly the following would occur. At ships of equal size if the ship is closer than the proper ranges it should get a more or less standard modifier to hit and damage based on movement of course of both parties... If a small weapon is fired at a LARGER ship irregardless of range, it's to hit (but not damage) modifier should be IMPROVED IE a frigate should be able to theoretically hit a cruiser farther away than a frigate. If a cruiser is engaging a frigate however, It's small turrets should behave like a frigates to hit (standard modifier). It's medium turrets should be at a disadvantage when striking frigates, irregardless of range. If that same cruiser goes against another Cruiser the Frigate sized turrets should get the same BONUS a frigate would get for the to hit roll and the medium turrets would get the standard modifiers. Against a battleship the medium turrets would behave like a small turret against a cruiser. They would get a slight boost to the to hit score irregardless of range. The small guns should get an even BIGGER boost than they would against a cruiser. In this way a frigate would have an advantage especialy at close range, a cruiser would have an advatage on a battleship at near range, and both a frigate and a cruiser would have an advantage on a battleship at close range. If the battleship captain forgot his escort, or didn't put at least one medium and small turret on his ship, he should be toastable even by a fairly small number of ships so long as they are in close range. No need to boost damages, reduce damages, boost defenses ETC. Just make range work more like it's advertised. The whole point of eve was that after a few weeks or so of playing you are a valuable member of ANY team in ANY area of the game. Naturaly a cruiser is MORE valuable, but not so much so that 5-10 frigates stand little or no chance against even one lone Exequror If the combat starts with both groups at 25KM from one another. I also say all this because of what I stated above... In real life of course one on one a battleship would obliterate a frigate but thats because a battleship has a minimal compliment of point defense weapons to use against smaller attack craft. It's huge city leveling cannons would not only be a waste of ammo on the frigate, but would likely miss! For those who say so what this is a game... thats fine... But I'm telling you, if the game DOES continue to stay at the current level of strategy (cruisers or better or forget PVP) for more than 6 months, you might as well kiss my subscription goodbye... because unless I find something else worth doing, I know I will not be interested in PVP... Even if I DO have a battleship. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.28 08:52:00 - [81] The other problem is that only an extremely foolish person would lose against a lone frigate. And nobody wants to have to admit they're that type of person. I love Rifters. They are powerful and designed for close combat. But in a 1 on 1 fight against a cruiser, even with that things we're talking about, my rifter shouldn't kill even a mediocre cruiser pilot for 1 single extremely good reason: I can't keep you in the fight even if I'm winning. The rifter lacks the powercore and the slots necessary to equip anything that would keep a cruiser in the fight while equipping weapons of any real worth. And the electronic warfare frigates lack the punching power that would be needed to finish a cruiser. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.28 08:52:00 - [82] The other problem is that only an extremely foolish person would lose against a lone frigate. And nobody wants to have to admit they're that type of person. I love Rifters. They are powerful and designed for close combat. But in a 1 on 1 fight against a cruiser, even with that things we're talking about, my rifter shouldn't kill even a mediocre cruiser pilot for 1 single extremely good reason: I can't keep you in the fight even if I'm winning. The rifter lacks the powercore and the slots necessary to equip anything that would keep a cruiser in the fight while equipping weapons of any real worth. And the electronic warfare frigates lack the punching power that would be needed to finish a cruiser. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Spider Jeru	Posted - 2003.06.28 10:00:00 - [83] Cost effectiveness becomes an issue here. Can twenty 200k isk frigates take on one 4 million isk cruiser? Yes. That's plenty to scramble, web, jam, and pick away at the damage. Can 15 10 million isk cruisers take on one 150 million isk battleship? It'd last about ten seconds. My average single-salvo damage is around 500 a pop, and you can't tell me people aren't doing much better than that because i've personally been hit MUCH harder than that (thanks mikhail). You get what you pay for, here and anywhere else.
Spider Jeru	Posted - 2003.06.28 10:00:00 - [84] Cost effectiveness becomes an issue here. Can twenty 200k isk frigates take on one 4 million isk cruiser? Yes. That's plenty to scramble, web, jam, and pick away at the damage. Can 15 10 million isk cruisers take on one 150 million isk battleship? It'd last about ten seconds. My average single-salvo damage is around 500 a pop, and you can't tell me people aren't doing much better than that because i've personally been hit MUCH harder than that (thanks mikhail). You get what you pay for, here and anywhere else.
Ironbuck	Posted - 2003.06.28 11:03:00 - [85] I agree with many of the numerous points made over this thread. However nerfing weapons or cruisers or battleships isnt the answer. Maybe they should add more skills which boost ship stats like shields and hull upgrades but at better modifiers than they are. If weapon setups are doing 1000 dam in volley, then add 300% shields to all ships. The battles would be the same but theyd last a damn sight longer, 20 secs rather than 10 :) basically it is same in many games , a few weeks after release Devs start to see that the weapons and equiptment which they thought was balanced is actually operating very differently in the hands of RL players. But if we all complain we will end with everything so nerfed that frigates will be taking out battleships solo or in small groups !! we dont want that , i mean ok presently all combat is to deadly, and biggest is best. But i prefer that to unrealistic situation of frigates becoming to hard, they are smallest ship type guys ?? think of them as a Rusty short sword (in Fantasy RP terms) and you are getting near their purpose
Ironbuck	Posted - 2003.06.28 11:03:00 - [86] I agree with many of the numerous points made over this thread. However nerfing weapons or cruisers or battleships isnt the answer. Maybe they should add more skills which boost ship stats like shields and hull upgrades but at better modifiers than they are. If weapon setups are doing 1000 dam in volley, then add 300% shields to all ships. The battles would be the same but theyd last a damn sight longer, 20 secs rather than 10 :) basically it is same in many games , a few weeks after release Devs start to see that the weapons and equiptment which they thought was balanced is actually operating very differently in the hands of RL players. But if we all complain we will end with everything so nerfed that frigates will be taking out battleships solo or in small groups !! we dont want that , i mean ok presently all combat is to deadly, and biggest is best. But i prefer that to unrealistic situation of frigates becoming to hard, they are smallest ship type guys ?? think of them as a Rusty short sword (in Fantasy RP terms) and you are getting near their purpose
Macros	Posted - 2003.06.28 11:41:00 - [87] It sounds like most of these problems could be fixed by altering the turret tracking codes. If battleships turrets had slow tracking times they would find it progressively harder to hit fast ships at closer ranges, but would stll be able to bring their weapons to bear at long ranges. The same would hold for cruisers. As it is my cruiser started out with a mix of weapons so that I could engage enemies at all ranges. After my first few fights I switched out as many of my close in weapons for 650mm artillery as possible, range seems to make little or no difference. As pleased as I am with them it is a ridiculous situation, I am using huge long ranged artillery as close in weapons.
Macros Minmatar	Posted - 2003.06.28 11:41:00 - [88] It sounds like most of these problems could be fixed by altering the turret tracking codes. If battleships turrets had slow tracking times they would find it progressively harder to hit fast ships at closer ranges, but would stll be able to bring their weapons to bear at long ranges. The same would hold for cruisers. As it is my cruiser started out with a mix of weapons so that I could engage enemies at all ranges. After my first few fights I switched out as many of my close in weapons for 650mm artillery as possible, range seems to make little or no difference. As pleased as I am with them it is a ridiculous situation, I am using huge long ranged artillery as close in weapons.
Spider Jeru	Posted - 2003.06.28 12:00:00 - [89] But how you gonna balance this whole speed thing? I truck along at 1km/s in my MOA, and can do so for...hell, forever I suppose, i've yet to run out of cap on afterburners. So it's fine and good to say "these little fast frigates" but some of you guys are gonna be horribly disillusioned when a Blackbird goes flying past at a couple km/s and no one can hit it.
Spider Jeru	Posted - 2003.06.28 12:00:00 - [90] But how you gonna balance this whole speed thing? I truck along at 1km/s in my MOA, and can do so for...hell, forever I suppose, i've yet to run out of cap on afterburners. So it's fine and good to say "these little fast frigates" but some of you guys are gonna be horribly disillusioned when a Blackbird goes flying past at a couple km/s and no one can hit it.

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