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Open Letter to Hilmar PFtursson CCPGAMES (CEO)

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Ascendic Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.14 05:25:00 - [91] Originally by: Jack Coutu To all of you saying "be happy with what they gave you" I wish you would think before you speak. It is BECAUSE people are not trusting a small group of people that have written some terribad code, made some really idiotic mistakes, and proposed some driveling ** ideas that you even have a workable game. MMO's seem to operate poorly because of a design team to you, but TBH the playerbase has a lot to do with it. People playing this game make it what it is, and if you had taken whatever they said, you'd have Dev's like Nozh ruining Eve for you. Everyone in here PAYS in some way to play this game. Everyone is posting to see it get better. Don't waste time saying "it's fine stop crying". These aren't features that were stated that we don't like and are crying about because we don't understand them, they are FLAWS in the game, broken code, half finished products, and we demand them to be fixed because alot of it is easy to improve. All you zero IQ kids out there and barely functional freaks hanging out in dark rooms need to realize that some of us don't like "features" and would rather imagine EVE dying than letting it get much much worse. Proposals like this make sense, your poasting "support CCP" does not. Yep. Just hit the nail on the head. I wish EVE had more dudes like you instead of the infestation of "its fine" "go cry more" "ccp is doing its best" "ccp does not owe you anything" morons that run around the forums all the time. If I am paying them for something they better damn well be providing the service. If you paid a mechanic guy to fix your car and he does a half assed job and it is still broken but tells you he installed some new shinies in the car instead of fixing all the broken stuffs how *ed would you be? They are taking YOUR money that you PAY to PLAY EVE and spending it on a stupid CONSOLE fps and useless content when the core game is still busted. BADLY. Until the lag and other idiotic bugs it was not so bad. But this past year and a half has been a complete cluster fck from CCP. Get your sh*t together k? thx.
Ralnik Mutineers	Posted - 2010.07.14 05:36:00 - [92] Edited by: Ralnik on 14/07/2010 05:37:54 While I don't agree with everything that has been posted it is clear IMO that CCP really should rethink their stance on the ratio of new Shiny vs Fix broken stuff. It really annoys me that things like doing something about low sec and even doing "something/anything" to faction warfare are on a back burner to Dust. Console games are allays crap money grabs by developers because the player base is transient. Console kiddies always buy the next new hot game then get bored with it 3 weeks later and are off to the next. It's really a bad decision IMO to put so much investment into Dust which likely will not keep long term subscribers while continuing to ignore the long term stable customer base of EVE Online. It's bad business and a very dumb move.
Ascendic Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.14 05:44:00 - [93] Exactly. There is a reason there are very few mmos on consoles. They player base moves on too quickly and platforms change too quickly. By the time dust is released they will have 2 years tops before next gen consoles come out. Also not alot of 12 year olds can convince their parents to pay for them to play their new toy online. Especially if they are already paying xbox live fees.
Tarasina	Posted - 2010.07.14 05:44:00 - [94] Edited by: Tarasina on 14/07/2010 05:45:02 IMHO, running an MMO has two distinct parts to it. 1. Providing more content 2. Making fixes If either is lacking, it is no longer worthy of the name MMO. It's an unwritten contract to me. Break either "promise" and I can no longer support you. You don't support me, I don't support you. Simple as that. What's among the first words when describing Blizzard? Polish! IMHO, same is true with Bioware. Learn from them.
Ascendic Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.14 05:50:00 - [95] Originally by: Tarasina Edited by: Tarasina on 14/07/2010 05:45:02 IMHO, running an MMO has two distinct parts to it. 1. Providing more content 2. Making fixes If either is lacking, it is no longer worthy of the name MMO. It's an unwritten contract to me. Break either "promise" and I can no longer support you. You don't support me, I don't support you. Simple as that. What's among the first words when describing Blizzard? Polish! IMHO, same is true with Bioware. Learn from them. Yes good examples. While I hate the terribad greed stricken parasite Blizzard has turned into since WOW, they do still polish and bug fix like nobody else in the business.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.14 06:57:00 - [96] I am extremely annoyed that CCP deceived us about the amount of resources that are being spent on Incarna, and I very very strongly disagree with the strategy of neglecting the core game for 2 years while it and Dust are implemented. (Actually, if they'd started that strategy after Apocrypha, things would have been almost OK - the game was in a much better state then, and we'd be half way there by now anyway). At the moment, I am deeply considering whether I want to give CCP money for 18 months to develop games I wont play while they flip me and my friends the finger. CCP have 17 working teams and they can't even devote a single team to bug fixes? They put 20 devs on to Evegate, but they only had 1 on the UI until recently? The impression I get is that the devs themselves would love to address many of the issues and improvements the players have raised through the CSM, but that the management have decided otherwise. Not a healthy working environment. Shockingly poor priorities. It's almost as if the CEO sees Bobby Kotick's contempt for his customers as an example to be emulated. The EVE upper management needs to come to realise that there is a strictly finite number of potential new players who can be scammed into subbing up for a few months before leaving because the "New Shiny!" that lured them in doesn't work and will plainly never work. I'm fine with the idea of Incarna. I think it has the potential to be an extremely valuable foundation on which to increase the scope of EVE. Sadly, CCP have shown zero incination to develop potential. It's plain that CCP still want to invest in EVE. It's equally plain that they've lost touch with their own customers and that this investment is largely wasted on ineffectual projects that are never finished. They come up with great concepts, put in a half-finished framework, and then ditch it forever. The waste of creativity is appalling. The waste of developer resources is idiotic. The waste of customer's expectations is corrosive. We'd actually be better off if EVE was transitioned in to CCP's "legacy game", because then at least a small amount of maintainence might get done. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Aliea Konovalev Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.14 07:07:00 - [97] I really don't see why people are at all surprised by this. The writing was on the wall way back when they took on the world of darkness project. CCP is a small company they don't have the resources to develop 3 distinct projects while maintaining/bug fixing another. This is the exact situation people were doomsdaying about back when dust was first announced. Besides it's not like they've ever been all that fast at bug fixes anyway. How long did it take them to fix drones?
Indy Dugg	Posted - 2010.07.14 07:13:00 - [98] Eve online is a great one of a kind game. But i cancled my 2 accounts it always feels like something is missing and i dont want to pay for something that refuses to meet its potential. Giveing us these two most recent useless ships and clicking dots on a planet. I hate complaing about eve but its like... um there is a forum section with a whole lot of ideas/fixees from when the game began.. and we get to click dots on a planet and some dumb ship with 3 cargo bays when i can just use a badger instead. Eve is really nice to look at right now and wish i could do this and that.
Tribunia	Posted - 2010.07.14 10:57:00 - [99] You let me down CCP! I LOVE EVE but youre starting to stray. I feel that you are no longer to be trusted in your communication with the player base, regardless of CSM and whatnot. How can you say that development of eve isnt affected by your other development projects when you also claim that you cant committ any resources to bugfixing or iteration of present features because you are focusing all your efforts on those other projects? It s like a kid lying through his teeth ffs! C'mon CCP! We want bug fixes now! We want iterations to already present features and then some more bug fixes, yesterday! No ... more ... shiney!
3rr0rc0d3 Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.07.14 11:45:00 - [100] EVE is dying, CCP are terrible, and I feel important enough to write an open letter to the CEO on the forums with at least one spelling error per sentence. Seriously, if you're not happy with the way CCP is running EVE and its other projects, contract all your stuff to me, cancel your account and go whine on another MMO forum. TL;DR: RABBLE RABBLE HURRRRDURRRR! ______________________ CCP: Inspired by Iceland.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.14 14:14:00 - [101] I don't feel it is wrong for people to express their disappointment in the direction CCP has decided to push it's resources, after EXPRESSLY telling us that would not happen. Instead we will sit here for 18 months playing a game that is MORE laggy than before the recent "improvements", with tons of unfinished content and broken systems. While the money we pay for the privilege is being used to build a game most of will not even play. You can go and troll the OP, but as a customer he is dead right.
Cailais Amarr THE ORDAINED	Posted - 2010.07.14 14:36:00 - [102] Originally by: Helicity Boson I don't feel it is wrong for people to express their disappointment in the direction CCP has decided to push it's resources, after EXPRESSLY telling us that would not happen. Instead we will sit here for 18 months playing a game that is MORE laggy than before the recent "improvements", with tons of unfinished content and broken systems. While the money we pay for the privilege is being used to build a game most of will not even play. You can go and troll the OP, but as a customer he is dead right. I'm still not 100% convinced. 'Tons' of unfinished content is just too vague a term. It's just too easy to say "EVE's broken" or to ask for more "polish" without specifically saying what you mean by those terms. I can see value in developing new routes to market for the EVE IP (e.g through DUST / INCARNA) and how that may be more important than tweaking the existing game play experience. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Veriasse Valence Gallente GeoCorp. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.07.14 14:52:00 - [103] Originally by: Cailais I'm still not 100% convinced. 'Tons' of unfinished content is just too vague a term. It's just too easy to say "EVE's broken" or to ask for more "polish" without specifically saying what you mean by those terms. I can see value in developing new routes to market for the EVE IP (e.g through DUST / INCARNA) and how that may be more important than tweaking the existing game play experience. C. The problem is that Incarna IS EVE, and Dust is a big risk. Currently, EVE funds these projects. EVE will be funding these projects during the next 12-18 months. Ignoring your dairy cows health and continuing to milk them for profit to build a big ass chicken coop won`t do you much good when the rate of your cows dropping is ever increasing and may hit a tipping point before you finish that chicken coop.
Cailais Amarr THE ORDAINED	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:05:00 - [104] Originally by: Veriasse Valence Originally by: Cailais I'm still not 100% convinced. 'Tons' of unfinished content is just too vague a term. It's just too easy to say "EVE's broken" or to ask for more "polish" without specifically saying what you mean by those terms. I can see value in developing new routes to market for the EVE IP (e.g through DUST / INCARNA) and how that may be more important than tweaking the existing game play experience. C. The problem is that Incarna IS EVE, and Dust is a big risk. Currently, EVE funds these projects. EVE will be funding these projects during the next 12-18 months. Ignoring your dairy cows health and continuing to milk them for profit to build a big ass chicken coop won`t do you much good when the rate of your cows dropping is ever increasing and may hit a tipping point before you finish that chicken coop. Sorry Im not familiar with farmville, but I guess youre saying that EVE wont be able to fund INCARNA / DUST on the assumption that the player base will drop? My guess is CCP have already done these sums and have decided EVE / CCP can fund development of DUST / INCARNA. Sure it might be a "big risk" but then that's partly what CCP pride themselves upon - EVE Online (back in the day) was a "big risk". Are you saying CCP should now no longer seek to take those risks and become more conventional? C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Kephael Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:06:00 - [105] They are coming out with Incarna which will be one of the largest additions to the game ever.
Ibn Taymiyyah Gallente Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:11:00 - [106] Originally by: Kephael They are coming out with Incarna which will be one of the largest additions to the game ever. Kinda wondered when that "Soon TM" crap would get old with the player base. Guess it's starting to stink up the place and people are getting **ed! All I have to say about this thread is "ABOUT GODDAMN TIME PEOPLE WAKE THE ** UP!" ... Will continue subbing my accounts while I can afford the plex to do so.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:13:00 - [107] Originally by: Kephael They are coming out with Incarna which will be one of the largest additions to the game ever. No they are not. They have been coming out with incarna for YEARS now. But I'm not walking in a station, and in the mean time, my rockets still do not work. See what we are getting at?
F90OEX F9X WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:31:00 - [108] How about having an expansion, that does nothing other then improve Eve, make it more stable and fixes the problem's people would like to see done, then coming out with another expansion that does more harm then good.. I'd vote for that
Kephael Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:32:00 - [109] Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Kephael They are coming out with Incarna which will be one of the largest additions to the game ever. No they are not. They have been coming out with incarna for YEARS now. But I'm not walking in a station, and in the mean time, my rockets still do not work. See what we are getting at? They never provided a release date until relatively recently.
Caminja	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:41:00 - [110] After each expansion the next expansion should be required to be a fix the cluster f*ck we just made expansion Then every 6 months we get bent over then 6 months later yay happy joy joy. Then bent over. But at least they fix what they break where as right now it is just break this break that inject more sewage here and break more stuffs. Oh look this is still busted but hey look over here more shineys!!!! Pretty soon if they keep releasing more content the bugs they have right now such as lag will get only more impossible to track and fix. Any coder who is not a complete moron knows this. You do not inject more code if you have bugs you need to fix first or it will make your job only more difficult and create more problems.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.14 15:55:00 - [111] Originally by: Kephael Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Kephael They are coming out with Incarna which will be one of the largest additions to the game ever. No they are not. They have been coming out with incarna for YEARS now. But I'm not walking in a station, and in the mean time, my rockets still do not work. See what we are getting at? They never provided a release date until relatively recently. The only thing they've provided a release date for is the avatar creator. They've been working on Ambulation since before I started playing EVE. The winter expansion will be out pretty much on my 4th EVE birthday, and all the Ambulation team will have to show for FOUR YEARS work will be a god damb Avatar Creator. Colour me unimpressed. Seriously, that's all they've committed to. That's what this talk of a "soft rollout" means: it's not ready, and it's not going to be ready this winter either. That means at best it'll launch summer 2011. Given that they're devoting so many resources to this for at least another 9-12 months, one might reasonably ask what the ** they've been doing for the past 4 years? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're sandbagging us. God, I hope they are; I'll be the first to give them a "well played 10/10" for the best troll of the playerbase yet. But to remotely justify the time and resources already spent and yet to be spent, Incarna is going to have to be unbelievably awesome. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always** to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Rage Spear Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.07.14 16:06:00 - [112] Couldn't agree with the OP more tbh and all you "stop whining", "GBTW", "Can I have your stuff" people should probably stop for a second and realise what kind of behavior you are encouraging from CCP. PS Hattip to Helicity for the excellent and related sig
MaxxOmega Caldari Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2010.07.14 16:07:00 - [113] This is nothing than the some old same old bellyaching and complaining. We have a saying in IT. We can do anything you want, ANYTHING. How much are you willing to pay for it? Are you willing to pay say $50.00 a month to play for one account and not be allowed to pay with plex so that they can triple their staff??
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.14 16:47:00 - [114] Originally by: MaxxOmega You can always find the door out anytime and no I don't want yer stuff... Indeed I can. Unsubbing is pretty easy. Ofc I'll keep my stuff in the hope that lag gets fixed again. I dont want to quit EVE, I want to play an EVE that works. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
MaxxOmega Caldari Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2010.07.14 16:51:00 - [115] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: MaxxOmega You can always find the door out anytime and no I don't want yer stuff... Indeed I can. Unsubbing is pretty easy. Ofc I'll keep my stuff in the hope that lag gets fixed again. I dont want to quit EVE, I want to play an EVE that works. I hope you do stay. You have some of the very few posts here I like reading. The more the merrier... However I wonder if CCP is like the rest of us. They simply start tuning people out after awhile...
Veriasse Valence Gallente GeoCorp. -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.07.14 16:54:00 - [116] Originally by: MaxxOmega I hope you do stay. You have some of the very few posts here I like reading. The more the merrier... However I wonder if CCP is like the rest of us. They simply start tuning people out after awhile... Tuning out your playerbase because they've been complaining about broken things is bad. Tuning them out because they've been complaining about the broken things for so long...
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.07.14 17:09:00 - [117] Originally by: MaxxOmega Edited by: MaxxOmega on 14/07/2010 16:10:17 This is nothing than the some old same old bellyaching and complaining. We have a saying in IT. We can do anything you want, ANYTHING. How much are you willing to pay for it? Are you willing to pay say $50.00 a month to play for one account and not be allowed to pay with plex so that they can triple their staff?? Originally by: Malcanis At the moment, I am deeply considering whether I want to give CCP money for 18 months to develop games I wont play while they flip me and my friends the finger. Like any other company that develops products you will never use. I could use a better roll of ass wipe if only they would stop wasteing money on new tampon products... You can always find the door out anytime and no I don't want yer stuff... This is such a dumb response that I'm actually have brain convulsions just trying to respond back to it. (1) This isn't the same old belly-aching. This is the playerbase finally really getting ****ed over the fact that CCP seems to be spending most of its efforts on functionality that we don't want, functionality that is half-baked and broken and on a barely related console FPS. This is the playerbase getting annoyed that the CSM meeting minutes pretty much showed that even when the CSM pushes, they still get mostly ignored which by extension means the players mostly get ignored. (2) Thanks for inventing some random math and coming up with $50 a month. Does any other MMO company charge more than $10-15 to provide their customers with a MMO that is stable, cohesive and relatively bug-free? Why wouldn't CCP be able to do it just like anyone else if they put their resources towards Eve and used them smartly? Additionally, I would be GLAD... almost OVERJOYED to spend $30-$40 on an expansion every year or two if it meant the quality and cohesiveness was more in tune with what we want. (3) Paper products companies and the products they produce are barely comparable to a software development companies and the services it provides. What CCP says they will provide us for our $15 a month is pretty much completely unique and trying to make an analogy between them is just dumb. ----- My Blog
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.14 19:59:00 - [118] Quote: They come up with great concepts, put in a half-finished framework, and then ditch it forever. The waste of creativity is appalling. The waste of developer resources is idiotic. The waste of customer's expectations is corrosive. We'd actually be better off if EVE was transitioned in to CCP's "legacy game", because then at least a small amount of maintainence might get done See, when I started the game and I read CCP use SCRUM agile programming I was impressed: "finally a company commited at delivering backtested stuff and in a timely manner". Only later I understood that in reality it was to quickly slap ideas together and meet the 6 month per expansion deadline and then leave it to die. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.14 20:16:00 - [119] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: They come up with great concepts, put in a half-finished framework, and then ditch it forever. The waste of creativity is appalling. The waste of developer resources is idiotic. The waste of customer's expectations is corrosive. We'd actually be better off if EVE was transitioned in to CCP's "legacy game", because then at least a small amount of maintainence might get done See, when I started the game and I read CCP use SCRUM agile programming I was impressed: "finally a company commited at delivering backtested stuff and in a timely manner". Only later I understood that in reality it was to quickly slap ideas together and meet the 6 month per expansion deadline and then leave it to die. yes, SCRUM works great for implementing new product dev. as for continued improvement of said new product dev. or improvement of past products.... well you can imagine. scrum team A throws product together and launches it scrum team B is called in to support it 3 months later, find themselves working on something they've never seen before.... maybe they fix it, maybe they go crazy not understanding what was done before and makes something different, who knows makes me think we have a scrum team working on server performance "so they say the servers are laggy and breaking and stuff. let's have a look...." (insert>wtfamIlookingat.jpg) --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
MaxxOmega Caldari Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2010.07.14 22:57:00 - [120] Edited by: MaxxOmega on 14/07/2010 23:01:16 Originally by: Spectre3353 Originally by: MaxxOmega Edited by: MaxxOmega on 14/07/2010 16:10:17 This is nothing than the some old same old bellyaching and complaining. We have a saying in IT. We can do anything you want, ANYTHING. How much are you willing to pay for it? Are you willing to pay say $50.00 a month to play for one account and not be allowed to pay with plex so that they can triple their staff?? Originally by: Malcanis At the moment, I am deeply considering whether I want to give CCP money for 18 months to develop games I wont play while they flip me and my friends the finger. Like any other company that develops products you will never use. I could use a better roll of ass wipe if only they would stop wasteing money on new tampon products... You can always find the door out anytime and no I don't want yer stuff... This is such a dumb response Stopped reading right there. I'm just like CCP. I don't care what you think either... I wasn't talking to you anyway, go die...whiner...

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