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Will Dust514 players destroy any planet-side building we do now?

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Oratassi Caldari Oratage Star Grid	Posted - 2010.10.14 07:36:00 - [61] Edited by: Oratassi on 14/10/2010 07:40:13 Edited by: Oratassi on 14/10/2010 07:39:11 Some thoughts on the contracting money. Galatic operation will cost more than being on a planet, not to say a small colony inside a planet. Such would fit with rl situation. There's one thing also called 'planetary monetary', if u recall the soe epic arch's hostage mission, which is 'worth much less than isk', and u got the 'a lot of money' item carrying with you on your ship for the ransom on that misson. So I surppose the hiring price would be cheap. Maybe..
Ira Infernus	Posted - 2010.10.14 14:02:00 - [62] Perhaps the option to contract NPC's will be there, aswell as open contracts to player mercs, seems a more viable and usable option?
Larofeticus The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.14 21:14:00 - [63] With the current form and function of PI, adding dust to it would be completely pointless. It's a sideshow mini game that you can make a little bit of isk with. Much more functionality MUST come to PI to even justify the concept of dust. And not just better extractors and mucking about with commodities; something like territorial claim units or infrastructure hubs that are placed on the surface of planets. Sovereignty has to be incorporated somehow.
Barakkus	Posted - 2010.10.14 22:32:00 - [64] I believe DUST is going to be integrated into Sov mechanics, I don't think highsec stuff is going to be affected much. There was a dev post somewhere around here hinting at that. Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus? Wait a minute...
Nahkep Narmelion Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2010.10.14 22:55:00 - [65] Edited by: Nahkep Narmelion on 14/10/2010 22:57:25 Holy necro batman!! Originally by: SurrenderMonkey You shouldn't, of course. Seriously. Your stuff is just going to be blown up by a bunch of foul-mouth tweens, and you'll be cheated out of your investment. Dust is obviously going to render PI a completely pointless, profitless exercise for Eve players. In fact, I would encourage everyone to just go ahead and preemptively abandon PI in protest right now. I see what you did there. Well played sir, well played.
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.10.15 02:28:00 - [66] I wouldnt worry that much, if it is true and DUST players can blow up our stuff, It would require people to actually be playing the game. Hardly anyone apart from eve players are going to buy it anyway. To your average console gamer, it will just be another one in a long line of rubbish futuristic FPS games, and it most definatly wont be the best.
Ned Black	Posted - 2010.10.15 08:04:00 - [67] Originally by: Mike TheMiner I wouldnt worry that much, if it is true and DUST players can blow up our stuff, It would require people to actually be playing the game. Hardly anyone apart from eve players are going to buy it anyway. To your average console gamer, it will just be another one in a long line of rubbish futuristic FPS games, and it most definatly wont be the best. Word! Personally I think Dust will go down in flames real fast after releast... especially if they expect to get a monthly subscription from it. Why should any snot faced kid out there pay every month to play a game they have no real connection to? I certainly wont play Dust as long as it is consols only. There are only a few things that would make dust even remotely interresting. * PC client - Making this a consoles only game is a HUGE mistake in my book. As mentioned before in this thread consol gamers are not exactly loyal to a game, as soon as a new one pops out they switch and the first game ends up collecting dust (pun intended). If they had a PC version then perhaps current eve players could get involved a little now and then. * Dust must have a significant impact on gameplay... if the extent of dust is to disrupt PI then it will fail y. If they would make it so that you had to use Dust to take down POS/SOV structures instead of bashing them for hours on end it could be interresting... if there was a PC client or integrated into eve itself... * Did I mention a PC client? Incarna just paves the road for Dust... I don't see any real need to have walking in stations as long as you can't do anything else than walk ond/or watch pixel **** as your crossdressing alt dances... I got bored with second life after about 10 minutes gametime... I have no reason to think walking in stations will affect me diffrently. I will probably take a short stroll outside my ship to watch the scenery when incarna comes along... and then most likely never leave my ship again. There need to be a significant advantage to me leaving my ship in order to make me do it. Watching the scenery does not count. I would much rather see all the time they have put into Incarna and dust would be put into things that would make our gameplay better, like a total POS permission revamp, fixing lag and balancing issues, discard the idea of Capitals online etc. but thats just me I guess...
My Postman	Posted - 2010.10.15 10:04:00 - [68] I hope that they will be able to destroy colonies. Preferably mine. I will pay them for, if noone else give order on day one. I already wasted 10 days of skilling, which was the worst desicion i made in eve. Ever.
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.10.15 11:59:00 - [69] Speculatron a go go... Short answer no one knows yet Long answer It's been shown in the past that just because something is said or appears on the test server doesn't mean it'll ever make it into the full game so why should Dust be any different. My views If all the PI stuff could be destroyed at random by people playing Dust, that'd be pretty awesome. It'd make it harder to do PI as an afk investment and mean that you'd have to worry about protection from ebils. Sure that'd put some people off but if less people are doing it then there's less supply and if the demand for the materials stays the same, given the number of towers that need fueling out there, then the price should climb and those sticking at PI will make more money. In all honesty though, DUST really needs to be something otherwise it'll just fail from the start and sink like all the other generic FPS's out there. -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Rellana1	Posted - 2010.10.15 12:49:00 - [70] Personally I don't see this happening in low-sec that's populated by a large alliance,as the said residents are going to be more than happy to shoot the dust-transport ship entering there space. Also I wouldn't be suprised if we are giuven the option to install defnse turrents on our colonies,as the amount of rat loot that I can get,I wouldn't be suprised if there some kind of option to adapt it for planetary defense as it gets closer to dust getting released.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.10.15 12:51:00 - [71] >Implying people will actually play Dust for more than 3 months
Dharh Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2010.10.15 17:34:00 - [72] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Ari Chu Dust players will be able to destroy stuff - that's the purpose. My expectations are that Merc teams will be about 20-30 players ... and raids take 60 minutes to organize and complete, on average. If one wanted to "guesstimate" the long term Dust players to 10k per day, with each playing for 2 hours... that's roughly 1k colonies that could be attacked. BUT there are also going to be defense contracts, so maybe half on attack and half on defense. 500 colonies per day? If half of the attacks are successful - that's 250 colonies per day popped. But that's just playing with numbers. Insert whatever numbers you feel reasonable and come up with your own conclusions. I have a hard time seeing how the defensive contract will work. EVE player: "I think my installation will be attacked within the next week, I want to hire a defensive team of 30 characters." Dust players "Schedule the fight for Monday 20.00 GMT." "No, I can be attacked at any time of the week." "You want us to stay at your facility for a week hoping for a fight that maybe will never happen? Are you mad?" The Dust players will want immediate fights after logging, the EVE player will want week long defensive contracts. So, as I see it, it will end with the EVE attacker hiring the Dust team of mercs he want to attack the facility, while the defender will have to put up a "open" contract that get activated when the facility is attacked on the lines of "If I am attacked I need a team of defender, I offer 100.000 isk for each defender up to 40 characters" and get whatever he get. When the attacker team sign in for the attack a "dungeon" is generated and the defending squad has X time to be filled up. About destroying the structures, it can be one of the options, a raid to steal the products could be another. It seem a problematic mechanic and probably in favor of the attacker that will get a cohesive force against a defensive force randomly throw together. I have no experience on FPS on line so I have no idea if there is some alternative way to set up the fight, but I hardly see a way to select a defensive team so that it was on line whn the fight happen. It can work like insurance. You place a contract out there for defense of your bases for X amount. There is competition where mercs see a list of jobs while in matchmaking and choose which one to participate in based on the amount of reward you put in for successful defense (or takeover) of a structure/colony. If you put too low of reward, you might only get NPCs defending your base, which will most likely lose. If you get attacked alot then higher rewards might get you well defended, but could cost you more than the colony returns.
Dharh Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2010.10.15 17:36:00 - [73] Originally by: Helicity Boson >Implying people will actually play Dust for more than 3 months If the gameplay is good, I certainly will. If they make a compelling growth path for our characters and corps, it could have good long term success.
EdTeach	Posted - 2010.10.18 12:51:00 - [74] A lot of FPS games/maps have auto-defenses. Each level of CC could get a turret for up to five turrets near/attached to a CC. When DUST goes online, it is possible that there could be defenses that can be built next to your extractors/etc. Each defensive unit could have a PG/CPU cost. There could be various mission maps, such as Link kills, Factory or Extractor assaults and the big daddy CC attack, each with 'plug-in' defenses that match the target's capabilities. One could postulate that keeping your colony as tightly-built as possible will not only save link costs, but allow for easier defense. Remember that PI installations are dirt cheap and insta-build. If you lose a few buildings, big deal. The costs for replacement of structures will be passed on to the consumer. If some players stop doing PI, the remaining PI users will benefit more. I want to fly some sort of aerospace fighter to go after Gas Planet CCs.
Bernard Schuyler	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:42:00 - [75] Originally by: iciingdeath ;p that would be just funny if thats how both games interact. Personally I have already got bored with Planet Mining, seems to be just a load of clicking. If your write that dUST PLAYER can destroyer ur mining sites, I would then agree that it might kill of at least high sec planets. unless theirs a way to defend ur assets and how does Dust effect 00 planet that people in high sec can't access if their not in the allaince that holds sov LOL I am imaginging CONCORD bombing planets in High Sec where DUST players aggress :-p
Greg Huff	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:28:00 - [76] I'd like to see.... - Use Marines and other "goods" to create a defense force - Expand the available goods to include other troops, vehicles, etc. - Contract DUST players to overtake a Command Center. - Allow EVE players to operate as many occupied PI centers as they can of their own. - Allow contracts for picking up PI goods from remote Customs Offices, and delivering of defensive goods. This also permits remote operation of launching pads on occupied colonies.
Downtym Amarr Ajo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.10.18 17:20:00 - [77] Originally by: OfTheQuietCity "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?" Why do you assume that the players will be newbies?
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.18 17:37:00 - [78] Eve players control the PI. Dust players "control" the labour on planets (aka bonuses for PI). Eve players hire ("control") dust players to gain labour on the planets. At least that's what they have been discussing. Basically it means that you won't lose any planet side buildings, but having efficient dust players "on" your PI means a serious boost in efficiency that it will be profitable to pay the merc companies (dust players) to fight for you. Dust is crowd control. Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
Kobalos	Posted - 2010.10.19 21:19:00 - [79] A few points: I can not remember which CCP Dev. said it, but it was on the PI vid on youtube (I believe) that he would like to see everything in the game made by players and NPC vendors go by the wayside. So, if PI is required for this and NPC vendors dissappear with the introduction of Dust 514 there will be EVERY reason for folks to invest in PI. CCP has already stated that this will not be your typical FPS. You will have skills like capsuleers. There will be a penalty for death (no insta-respawn at least). You will have ISK for your toys comensurate with your actual FPS skill level. For all the FPS e-peens on the block, that's enough reason to show up to the party and stick around long after all the skirt has gone home. CCP has also stated that there will be "player housing" on-board the corp command ship, with a trophy room and all that. There will also be a commander hot-dropping assets onto the battle-field. This leads me to believe that there will be an huge emphasis on belonging to a merc corp, as opposed to going solo. I have a sneaking suspicion that the mercs will not be as dependant upon US as we will be upon THEM. How the matches will be lined up, I do not know. However, I do have a sneaking suspicion that the best merc corps will list THEIR prices and we will go to them when we need something done. Most likely a merccorp will even be able to stick with their client for as long as the contract suits them. Of course, its just a sneaking suspicion. THAT would be very EVE-like. - Kobalos
Cedo Nulli	Posted - 2010.10.20 08:51:00 - [80] Downfall of dust is simply that CCP decided to go for the big halo money with consoles as the platform. Only console owning EVE players will be intrested in it and continue to play it after the initial month. Consoleguys will jump to the next "Specops XX: supersoldiers of badoobaland" shooter. The nature of EVE is long tedious boring waits to do absolutely anything, this translates very badly to a console where your supposed to get ** done in 30min. 24h wait times before getting into anything else but pointless random shootouts ... holy ** you understand a standard consoleplayer cant even imagine that far into the future. If you still hope it will work ... its made by the asian office of CCP .. and you know asians know how to make a good working FPS right ?
Ender Sai Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.10.20 12:28:00 - [81] Well, PI will provide resources to fight over. ie, it motivates conflict (with EVE players), which will be necessary for DUST to work (as part of the EVE universe). I imagine that the DUST players will be informorphs (ie they run around in clones) much like the EVE characters, who knows how that works with the story. So it's easier for them to be at any place where there is a conflict. I don't think DUST will revolve around EVE players, I think what CCP is aiming for, is an environment where the DUST players and EVE players can interact in a way that is mutually beneficial. No doubt the DUST players will have their own forms of NPC mission running and Faction warfare. I think I've even heard that they will have their own industrial activities. (imagine mining rhoids in person? Madness!) Why invest in PI Because you're too poor/ new/ dumb to run moon or other more profitable industrial activities. Also, the investment is really quite small, 10 days and like 20 misk? and I doubt the main purpose of dust players will be to shoot PI buildings.
Kobalos	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:11:00 - [82] Something else that I forgot to mention that I remembered reading/hearing from a Dev. concerning 514 is that they want it to tie into sovereignty.
Atkyaz Dreadstalker Minmatar The Lunatic Collective Corcoran State	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:28:00 - [83] I'm not sure exactly how this will work but i got the impression that it would be more of a contract based business interaction rather than dust players directly attacking the assets of EVE players. I'm thinking it will be more like if you want to build a base on a planet you first have to hire a dust team to go in and secure the area before you can claim it or build on it. If several players or corporations want to claim the same area on the same planet they will have to fight over it with the dust players being their army. I think this would mean it would be best for EVE players to get as much infrastructure up as possible before dust is released as it will be much harder to get it built after. It could also be a constant battle for territory control. not losing your base but the more territory you control the more resources you extractors collect per cycle. No actual loss of assets but the more you interact with dust players the higher efficiency you can get from your base. It could also be a case where dust players occupy a planet and you either have to pay the dust corp for mineral rights in there territory or hire another merc corp to clear the area so you can claim it.This would give dust players several options. They could work directly for EVE players fighting as there planet side forces, making money for there corp to buy better equipment or what ever. Or they could fight to claim territory for them selves and basically charge rent to the EVE players for setting up a base in there territory. There are many ways it could be done to promote the fighting form both EVE and Dust without causing a negative effect to the players in EVE. It should be more of a case where the more you interact with the dust players the more profit you can get from it. but if you have minimum interaction with them you can still use planet side bases but they will be far less profitable. The simplest way I can think of to make it work would be to have a bonus to your planet side activities dependent on the control you have over the area. You hire DUST mercenaries to give you that control. If you are the only player on that planet you will have 100% control. but if there are many players with bases on that planet then you need to hire DUST mercenaries to fight for as much control ass possible. If you can not afford to hire them you will get only a base level of efficiency but if you hire the best team your efficiency goes up by a percentage depending on how much of the planet they hold for you. Of course this would mean the best teams from DUST will be able to charge more than a team of noobies as they would be more effective giving the one hiring them a bigger bonus making it worth while to hire a more expensive team. I think it could work very well if done right. To the nay sayers all I can say is think about it from a CCP angle. If they designed DUST in a way that DUST interaction could be more trouble than it is worth for EVE players than EVE players would just not do it. That would be an instant fail of the DUST game. They will not take that risk. Interaction with dust will be set up in a way that it will only benefit the EVE players that chose to interact with it, the only thing you will stand to lose is the ISK you spend on hiring the DUST team. But the reward will be well worth the risk. It has to work that way because that is the only way to guarantee the success of DUST and to keep EVE players interested. I for one am working on getting some decent bases established so I can make some good ISK when DUST goes live. There will have to be potential for huge ISK gains just to guarantee the participation of EVE players.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.20 15:09:00 - [84] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 20/10/2010 15:10:50 Originally by: Downtym Originally by: OfTheQuietCity "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?" Why do you assume that the players will be newbies? Because the game will be new maybe ??
Caldari Acolyte	Posted - 2010.10.20 18:22:00 - [85] Dust, attention span of a 12 year old last maybe 2 months with a game, i give Dust about a year.
Ximano	Posted - 2010.10.22 14:55:00 - [86] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Originally by: OfTheQuietCity ? My first impression is "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?" You shouldn't, of course. Seriously. Your stuff is just going to be blown up by a bunch of foul-mouth tweens, and you'll be cheated out of your investment. Dust is obviously going to render PI a completely pointless, profitless exercise for Eve players. In fact, I would encourage everyone to just go ahead and preemptively abandon PI in protest right now. No. You will be able to use dust players to get the best stuff for you at the planets. Planets will get limits on colonies after dust kicks in.
Gibbeous Moon	Posted - 2010.10.22 22:25:00 - [87] If some buildings start to go >pop< then that's the profit margin gone. Add in the time to rebuild the buildings, add the links again and then to sort out the blasted routes, which are now all over the place thus making Products disappear up their own fundament and then I will kiss PI goodbye. It's hard enough to get PI to work in High Sec without having a snotty pimply youth who, inside of the house, wears baseball hats back to front and who thinks that "awesome" is a good word to use, take it out on my finely crated structures. PI is hard enough as it is without having some brats take the colonies apart because, heaven forbid, the explosions are "cool, dude."
Gamarabi	Posted - 2010.10.23 00:26:00 - [88] Edited by: Gamarabi on 23/10/2010 00:33:11 Edited by: Gamarabi on 23/10/2010 00:30:39 Personally as sort of a safegaurd I added multiple links on my 2 most important colonies. I used a circular ring of links to provide alternative routes as well as provide sort of a wall around the more critical components. So even if certain links are destroyed there are still two or three different ways to reroute products. Also all of my colonies are "somewhat" aesthetically pleasing. I also intentionally put space in between certain colonies to avoid all of them being taken out at once. But of course that may all be pointless if DUST doesn't work in any way I could have expected it to.
Thrassoss	Posted - 2010.10.23 01:38:00 - [89] Previously someone mentioned that FPSer's want to shoot up other players not a bunch of mindless npcs. While that may be true, it might be interesting to see some 'vs. NPC' scenarios where there is a defense vs Sansha Nation zombie-infantry ala Left 4 Dead or some kind of assault type contract in the vein of Doom3, replacing demons with drones reminiscent of the tentacle drones from the matrix movies.
caboaddict	Posted - 2010.10.23 04:31:00 - [90] Right now there can be a limitless number of people on a planet. The only thing that currently changes is the amount of goods you can extract. What would be interesting is if DUST puts a cap on the number of Command Centers that can be deployed on a given planet. In some cases that would mean that in constellations where there is a shortage of a given planet type you would see a surge in the number of attacks against established operations in order to get your operation up and running.

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