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OfTheQuietCity
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Posted - 2010.07.23 21:23:00 -
[1]
Will Dust514 players destroy any planet-side building we do now?
That seems to be the character of interaction between EVE and Dust? My first impression is "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?"
Does anyone know? I've searched and also asked on the in-game-help, but not been able to find info. Thanks  |
iciingdeath
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Posted - 2010.07.23 23:05:00 -
[2]
;p that would be just funny if thats how both games interact. Personally I have already got bored with Planet Mining, seems to be just a load of clicking.
If your write that dUST PLAYER can destroyer ur mining sites, I would then agree that it might kill of at least high sec planets. unless theirs a way to defend ur assets and how does Dust effect 00 planet that people in high sec can't access if their not in the allaince that holds sov
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Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.07.24 00:50:00 -
[3]
Dust players will be able to destroy stuff - that's the purpose.
My expectations are that Merc teams will be about 20-30 players ... and raids take 60 minutes to organize and complete, on average. If one wanted to "guesstimate" the long term Dust players to 10k per day, with each playing for 2 hours... that's roughly 1k colonies that could be attacked. BUT there are also going to be defense contracts, so maybe half on attack and half on defense. 500 colonies per day? If half of the attacks are successful - that's 250 colonies per day popped.
But that's just playing with numbers. Insert whatever numbers you feel reasonable and come up with your own conclusions.
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"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.07.24 01:49:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: OfTheQuietCity
? My first impression is "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?"
You shouldn't, of course. Seriously. Your stuff is just going to be blown up by a bunch of foul-mouth tweens, and you'll be cheated out of your investment. Dust is obviously going to render PI a completely pointless, profitless exercise for Eve players.
In fact, I would encourage everyone to just go ahead and preemptively abandon PI in protest right now.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Rho Epsilon
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Posted - 2010.07.24 03:01:00 -
[5]
They will be able to take over planets, but probably not in high sec. Likely there will be some mechanism to limit this, similar to the way you need to declare war today.
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Wonton Willie
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Posted - 2010.07.24 03:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
Originally by: OfTheQuietCity
? My first impression is "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?"
You shouldn't, of course. Seriously. Your stuff is just going to be blown up by a bunch of foul-mouth tweens, and you'll be cheated out of your investment. Dust is obviously going to render PI a completely pointless, profitless exercise for Eve players.
In fact, I would encourage everyone to just go ahead and preemptively abandon PI in protest right now.
WTF is the deal with you thin skinned language ****'s? Cussing like a sailor builds character.
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SCLZ
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Posted - 2010.07.24 09:34:00 -
[7]
Too early to say for sure but I would guess each battle takes place at one structure at a time, not one colony at a time. I.E. At most one battle will knock out an extractor or processing plant, not the entire colony.
I would also guess that if the attack is successful the structure is not destroyed but rather disabled or incapacitated in some way and we'll be able to effect some sort of repair to get it back online so you only lose a bit of efficiency rather than the whole structure.
Though some structures are more vital than others like Launchpads and Storage units which if knocked out of commission can effectively shut down the whole colony. To that I would guess each structure has automated defenses and the more vital ones have better defenses than your basic extractor. Also I'd guess you can setup defense contracts ahead of time with other Dust514 players so that if your colony is attacked something pops up for other Dust514 players to defend your colony in exchange for ISK.
But that's just how I'm guessing it's going to go, there'll be plenty of details as Dust gets closer to launch I'm sure.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.24 10:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ari Chu
Dust players will be able to destroy stuff - that's the purpose.
My expectations are that Merc teams will be about 20-30 players ... and raids take 60 minutes to organize and complete, on average. If one wanted to "guesstimate" the long term Dust players to 10k per day, with each playing for 2 hours... that's roughly 1k colonies that could be attacked. BUT there are also going to be defense contracts, so maybe half on attack and half on defense. 500 colonies per day? If half of the attacks are successful - that's 250 colonies per day popped.
But that's just playing with numbers. Insert whatever numbers you feel reasonable and come up with your own conclusions.
I have a hard time seeing how the defensive contract will work.
EVE player: "I think my installation will be attacked within the next week, I want to hire a defensive team of 30 characters."
Dust players "Schedule the fight for Monday 20.00 GMT."
"No, I can be attacked at any time of the week."
"You want us to stay at your facility for a week hoping for a fight that maybe will never happen? Are you mad?"
The Dust players will want immediate fights after logging, the EVE player will want week long defensive contracts.
So, as I see it, it will end with the EVE attacker hiring the Dust team of mercs he want to attack the facility, while the defender will have to put up a "open" contract that get activated when the facility is attacked on the lines of "If I am attacked I need a team of defender, I offer 100.000 isk for each defender up to 40 characters" and get whatever he get.
When the attacker team sign in for the attack a "dungeon" is generated and the defending squad has X time to be filled up.
About destroying the structures, it can be one of the options, a raid to steal the products could be another.
It seem a problematic mechanic and probably in favor of the attacker that will get a cohesive force against a defensive force randomly throw together.
I have no experience on FPS on line so I have no idea if there is some alternative way to set up the fight, but I hardly see a way to select a defensive team so that it was on line whn the fight happen.
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Lazer Rider
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Posted - 2010.07.24 11:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Lazer Rider on 24/07/2010 11:31:03
I have played FPS for along time and in almost every game i have played if you have Clan's/Guild's/Corp's which have train's together they will end any map in very short order against player's that are just thrown together... ie if they us 100 ticket with capable flags/base i would expect to win within 20 ticket,s against a random player side.
But my concern about Dust is even if you pay the top 100 fps player's in America to defending your outpost what do you do if they are attacked at 5 am in the morning when everybody/most are asleep?
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Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.07.24 13:10:00 -
[10]
Well, there have to be defensive contracts - or it will be difficult to have the DUST players shooting at each other.
Though, the very act of having Defensive contracts will mean a lot of very stupid things for DUST as it works within the EVE world...
I'd guess that the process will work something like:
1) EVE player writes contract for xxx ISK requesting attack on ZZZZ target.
2) When the Contract is accepted, the target is given an email saying "Yo, yer junk is gonna get esploded".... but the attack doesn't start for 24 (or something) hours.
3) Defender has that window of opportunity to try and hire a band of mercs to defend.
BUT, if the above is correct, then it will ruin one of the biggest incentives to attack colonies - the opportunity to nail large quantities of product that are planet-side. If the defender gets advanced notice, they can just launch all the crap into space and it will only cost ~10mil to rebuild the colony and then drop everything back planetside to continue production.
Maybe when attack contracts are accepted, CCP will say that the colony is first attacked by some "Insert Sci Fi nonsense" that disables the Launch Pads of the colony so that things can't be exported. This would be a good idea, to make colonies actually worth attacking.
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"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
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Svarty II
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.24 15:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: OfTheQuietCity
Will Dust514 players destroy any planet-side building we do now?
That seems to be the character of interaction between EVE and Dust? My first impression is "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?"
Does anyone know? I've searched and also asked on the in-game-help, but not been able to find info. Thanks
Judging by how cluelessly CCP have implemented PI, they haven't got any idea what Dust 514 will be like even though they are making it.
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Cid Mutation
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Posted - 2010.07.24 15:58:00 -
[12]
You have to think also that they have to move to the planet the contract is targeting so it leaves you with a open window to hire your defence. If you are not online my gest is that you'll have NPC defending your colony.
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Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2010.07.24 16:47:00 -
[13]
I don't know about you guys, but I have not seen sufficient pay out from my four planets to justify their defense. Honestly, if there are ground troops running around clobbering my extractors and/or other structures, this endeavor has to produce a lot more than something considered to be a "passive income stream".
Has anyone been making a lot of ISK from the Planet stuff yet? I keep comparing my planets to my R&D income. Four datacores a day --> ~1.2 million ISK/day. Let's assume my four planets make that much, then a horde of Dust guys comes in and destroys my installations twice a week. I'm losing money big time. So say I pay for defenses - I could easily be setting up a good time for the Dust guys, and making little to no profit, perhaps losses, for all the effort involved.
Need more facts...
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jakejekel
Caldari
Night Breed Pack
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Posted - 2010.07.24 18:04:00 -
[14]
it's pretty simple, it is a way to control the market for pi items. think about it, a bunch of tweens have xbox's but a much smaller number of adults play eve. now introduce the fact that all pos modules now need a massive amount of pi items to be built, and you have amassive increase in the price of even the smallest raw materials produced by pi.
Mass murder makes me happy!
Dead bodies make me happy!
Until eternity!
I'll always have juggalo family! |
Svarty II
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.24 20:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Svarty II on 24/07/2010 20:57:20
Originally by: jakejekel
it's pretty simple, it is a way to control the market for pi items. think about it, a bunch of tweens have xbox's but a much smaller number of adults play eve. now introduce the fact that all pos modules now need a massive amount of pi items to be built, and you have amassive increase in the price of even the smallest raw materials produced by pi.
My prediction:
Dust will attract a number of console players to begin with, but as more and better FPSes are released for the console, and said consoles move into their next generations, Dust will live up to it's name. The few who will play at this stage will be those already playing Eve and who probably pay themselves.
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SirRalph
Minmatar
Nomadic Freelancers
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Posted - 2010.07.24 21:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: SirRalph on 24/07/2010 21:57:23
Originally by: OfTheQuietCity
Will Dust514 players destroy any planet-side building we do now?
That seems to be the character of interaction between EVE and Dust? My first impression is "Why invest in planet-side stuff if a load of newbie First-Person-Shooter characters introduced to the EVE universe will just destroy it?"
Does anyone know? I've searched and also asked on the in-game-help, but not been able to find info. Thanks
1st go watch Dust trailer. There you see what Dust guys are doing.
The deal is this.
EVE players will be able to contract Dust players to destroy other EVE players PI buildings.
So Dust 'clan' accepts a contract, EVE player hauls them into target planet, they wtfbbq the noobs defending the PI stuff there and the contract is finished.
EDIT: And I guess that there will not be reinforcement timers, as we know FPS games are all about the instant action.
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Leiara Knight
Gallente
The Oblivion Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.24 22:46:00 -
[17]
I think it will be a new type of FPS - one where you set a circular jogging distance (ie. 3 metres from target) and toggle your guns with the Function keys. Additionally, if you fail to throw a lasso around your target they will be able to sprint away at an incredible pace.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.07.24 23:28:00 -
[18]
You know that part where they said that the only interaction between EVE and DUST would be a one way ISK supply from EVE to DUST? Yeah, that part ruins every theory in this thread. They know they can't **** over EVE players to appease console kids nor make us rely on them, at most I foresee negative modifiers to your colonies that will make them less valuable.
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EPark Finner
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:23:00 -
[19]
A mechanism that might work would be to have a standing contract to attack or defend a target (extractor, space port, etc) and when the DUST players log on they could choose their game on the basis of the value of the contract and qualifying skills. If they win, the contract value gets apportioned to the players on the basis of what they did -- kills, things destroyed, and the like.
In that kind of scheme a clan might choose to come together for a particular level of contract and pick-up gamers could get "matched" on the basis of contract value and skill level so even in pick-up games there could be a chance of reasonable competition. Clans might get "skill levels" on the basis of past performance and some kind of leader board so they would be well matched.
Still -- it's all hot air. We just don't know :(
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Kyle Sucks
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.26 03:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I have a hard time seeing how the defensive contract will work.
Probably more like "Haul X amount of "soldiers" (amount of spawns/points available to the dust session) to your planet-****, and have a slightly improved chance of keeping it."
That's how I'd imagine it. Although, I did just make this up off the top of my head...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.26 06:54:00 -
[21]
Note that the Dust players will not be hauled to/from the planet by EVE players.
That one of the few information released and it is very reasonable or we would have people hiring Dust players and abandoning them for fun on WH planets with no way to leave them.
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JitaArse
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Posted - 2010.07.26 10:03:00 -
[22]
there are could be some standartized body you install at your colony to which your defending crew will simply jumpclone.
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Sir Asterix
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
In fact, I would encourage everyone to just go ahead and preemptively abandon PI in protest right now.
And of course POS don't require fuel to run or anything, I can really see this 'protest' taking off.
If you don't like your planet-side assets being destoryed then hire some dust mercs to defend it. |
Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.07.26 12:09:00 -
[24]
I've heard the "EVE pilots will ship the dust mercs to location" thing before.... and it might even have been something put out by CCP.
But forget it. There's no way such a system would work in EVE. Beyond the obvious griefing of Dust mercs that would happen, such a system would virtually ensure that most 0.0 colonies are VERY safe. And WH colonies?
No, it would only be empire colonies that would be eradicated, and they have lower extraction rates - so really it would only be the manufacturing colonies in empire that would become targets.
Maybe all those "mercenary" and soldier type goods will become the NPC defenders. Drop some into storage and if the colony is attacked, they activate and defend. That probably wouldn't be a bad system. That and automated turrets - Barracks + Turrets probably = use of CPU/Grid that makes colony less able to extract/manufacture more.
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"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2010.07.26 14:58:00 -
[25]
The stupid thing to me, aside from the very short lived attention span most shooters get on consoles, is the pointlessness to a capsuleer of the console gamers efforts.
For example...say an EvE competitor opens a contract to have Dust players blow up my facilities on planet Z...and that occurs. I can have the entire effort erased in minutes by simply rebuilding the whole thing...might cost me upwards of ten million to do that...but really, 10 million ISK is peanuts. One mission. One sale of my planetary commodities. Irrelevant in terms of making a persistent difference to the game.
I'm I misunderstanding the concept or something?
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Hori To
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2010.07.26 15:43:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Hori To on 26/07/2010 15:43:40
edit: spelling mistake
If people drop PI like a hot potato, it will be profitable again. eve needs pos fuel. |
SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.07.26 15:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sir Asterix
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
In fact, I would encourage everyone to just go ahead and preemptively abandon PI in protest right now.
And of course POS don't require fuel to run or anything, I can really see this 'protest' taking off.
If you don't like your planet-side assets being destoryed then hire some dust mercs to defend it.
Next time, I'll have to include explicit <sarcasm> tags.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.07.26 16:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SCLZ
Also I'd guess you can setup defense contracts ahead of time with other Dust514 players so that if your colony is attacked something pops up for other Dust514 players to defend your colony in exchange for ISK.
Which is great right up until someone realizes that the attackers and defenders may be working for the same team... Both teams get paid, the attackers get a cakewalk, both teams split the PI materials, and the PI guy gets screwed.
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.07.26 16:54:00 -
[29]
Also, it's cute that everyone seems to be operating under the assumption that PI's present state is the same as it will be once Dust gets involved. I sincerely doubt the PI "end game" will bear much of a resemblance to what we have now. Realistically speaking, Dust is *at least* 18 months off, and if I recall correctly, the two games aren't going to interact much at all right out of the gate.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Skadi vonNiflheim
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Posted - 2010.07.27 00:22:00 -
[30]
I doubt DUST will be that anti-eve. Since fps people just wont 2 jump strain in2 a fight we might get npc mercenaries. Because no 1 will stay at one post doing noting for weeks on end. Also thel prob be defensive upgrades or something to make it fair for every1.
And you must remember that DUST will be simmer to eve as in the whole cloning system. When we die we wake up in the cloan vat...when thy die its the same so there's no fear in respaws, which makes me feel warm on the inside since fps people are reckless and dont see death that bad coz life is 10 seconds away. Only fear is that either DUST will die out or itl train up ultra good fps's.
But im gona get it anyway so that i can personaly keep an eye on my own investments and mabe do a bit of solo sabotage work
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