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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 09:57:00 -
[61]
Lugalzagezi666, instead of posting something with no value, please share your wisdom.
You think I'm wrong. Okay. I could be. Do explain what your problem with what I've said is. |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:05:00 -
[62]
It has value, its advice for other ppl to ignore your posts because you are clueless. I cba to comment all bull**** you posted but this should be enough :
 Originally by: Goumeka Ghalvia
Damage the Ishkur does without 5 combat drones is pathetic and it will take you 3 minutes to drill through the medium extender.
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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:16:00 -
[63]
You're a genius. Try it with 3 Ions and tell me how long it takes to bust the Jaguar open. I did last night. True troll without a clue. Ofcourse it's not 3 minutes. But it's too long to work in a real situation. And even that isn't the problem. 1 missed jamming cycle and you will need to pull more ECM drones out of your drone bay. The fight took me 7(!) cycles. It was a test fight. Next we tried if drones were the primary. Didn't work even a tiny bit. Guess why? Drones were dead too fast. Next person please.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Goumeka Ghalvia
...
You are incompetent, keep posting so i can lol more m8.
Also ions
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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:46:00 -
[65]
I do apologize. Perhaps it was simply a case of misuderstanding. I meant that the damage that the Ishkur does with ECM drones and no Combat ones it very low. Relativly to the max damage of course. And it really does take too long to get through a buffered Jaguar. Too long in fact for it to be an option in combat. I have seen ECM drones used very effectivly but they fail to impress against a Jaguar (even thought it's Minmattar).
Hope I cleared it out. |
Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:52:00 -
[66]
Happy to amuse you. Would you like to bring your Ishkur to fight a Jaguar and prove me wrong or is there just nothing left in that tiny little head of yours? Original poster basically made a guide from stats and personally experience. Many posters added valuable info for which I as an Ishkur pilot thank you. Still looking forward to testing the double-rep version. |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:18:00 -
[67]
Why not, ill be online after dt, will need some time to buy ship and mods though /i think im in amarr so it shouldnt take long/. Convo me or mail me then.
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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:39:00 -
[68]
We'll see. I'll convo you after DT and see if we can work out when and where. |
Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2010.08.10 13:02:00 -
[69]
I commend you, gentlemen, as you are about to test your respective theories through the noble art of tearing each other apart.
Kudos to you both, and please return to the forum quickly with a detailed description of the fight, fittings, and conclusions.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2010.08.10 13:48:00 -
[70]
People passive tank their Jags?
I guess stock piling gisti small boosters back when they were dirt cheap was a good idea. Active tanked Jags can generally kill Ishtars....
~~
Hyey
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.08.10 14:47:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 10/08/2010 14:50:32
Originally by: Goumeka Ghalvia
You're a genius. Try it with 3 Ions and tell me how long it takes to bust the Jaguar open. I did last night. True troll without a clue. Ofcourse it's not 3 minutes. But it's too long to work in a real situation. And even that isn't the problem. 1 missed jamming cycle and you will need to pull more ECM drones out of your drone bay. The fight took me 7(!) cycles. It was a test fight. Next we tried if drones were the primary. Didn't work even a tiny bit. Guess why? Drones were dead too fast. Next person please.
I hope you are trolling; if not, then you must be clueless. If your viewpoint is based off your, pvp experiences; then i cant argue with your conclusions. In my opinion though, i suggest getting into, more myrids of engagements and discovering the plethora of diffrent situations you could find yourself in. It may, alter your conclusions.
Engagements are often to dynamic, along with a wide range of setups, experience level and skill level; to be quantifiable.
-My 2 cents
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.08.10 14:53:00 -
[72]
ishkur, with puny optimal+falloff and that large gaping hole in explosive resist can't hold against a dual MSE jaguar firing RF fusion rounds. Period.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 15:50:00 -
[73]
PUT REPS ON SHIPS!
Jesus christ, so few people fit frickin reps on pvp ships anymore. My enyo with a NOS, AB, and small rep can run them all indefinately...failing that, a long damn time.
More than enough to invalidate any 200mm plate.
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 16:23:00 -
[74]
Proxyyyy, I was only refering to the suggested way of jamming the Jaguar in order to win. There are many other ways to fit an Ishkur but unfortunatly in my experience they fail in most cases. MWD kiting an AB Jaguar will work but as mentioned above it is rather boring and no always effective. The scheduled fight happend but the results were less than conclusive. A rematch might put everything in it's place. To the suggestion of putting an AR on the Ishkur I would like to say that it's nearly always there. But a single one will not be able to tank the Jaguar DPS. Double-rep Ishkur still remains to be tested. As for the Enyo it has the added bonus of a 4th low slot. Perfect for boosting the explosive resistance. However that ship is not under discussion now. Thank you all for your input and I would like to hear more people defending the Ishkur.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.10 17:28:00 -
[75]
Jag died. I had 2/9 hobgoblins left, 90% shields. Im ready for rematch where i will use only ecm drones if you are interested. Also fit scrambler like real pvp fit would do.
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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.10 17:35:00 -
[76]
There was no scram? Really? Uh. Didn't oversee that. Our friend wasn't on top of his game that time. I feel there's much room for improvement. As for what you want to use it's up to you. This isn't a test of a single fitting but rather of what has been written here so far. Will let you know when we can do a rematch.
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.08.10 18:19:00 -
[77]
You girlfriends, should make out! Setting up dates on the Eve-o forums; is-very-gay. Also, say N0-H0mo, next time.
-Duels, are lame
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.10 19:05:00 -
[78]
Duels are still better than your fits.
Also i was doing that just to show that :
...And fights between ishkurs and jags are always very interesting since they can be fitted in many ways...
Saying that jag cannot be killed by ish or that its not worth to try it is stupid, something like this post :
Originally by: VanNostrum
ishkur, with puny optimal+falloff and that large gaping hole in explosive resist can't hold against a dual MSE jaguar firing RF fusion rounds. Period.
Period.
Only that first rail ishkur you meet will kill you because you cant control engagement without web.
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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:49:00 -
[79]
Lugalzagezi666 you are right about the web. Jaguar without one can be beat with different setups but I see quite a few Jaguars with full tackle. And it still has more tank. The reason I agree with Mauvais is because every time I won a fight against a Jaguar it was because he screwed up. Fitting issues or sudden ideas of changing ammo while in my optimal and so on. However when he knew what to do I went down in flames. Jaguar has too many advantages when facing an Ishkur. Railgun fitted Ishkurs without MWD will lose if the Jaguar gets in at 500m. Tracking issues and overall less DPS will contribute to that. Plus that awful explosive hole doesn't help the situation. So yes of course Ishkurs win sometimes. But it's a lot more up to the Jaguar pilot to screw up than it is for the Ishkur pilot to do his best. |
Terik Voth
Caldari
Easy Co.
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Posted - 2010.08.11 18:53:00 -
[80]
The ishkur is my favorite assault frig. This is the setup I've been using for a while.
[Ishkur, My Ishkur]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Warrior II x4
Warrior II x1
Hornet EC-300 x4
With my skills and hardwirings I get 250 dps and 7600 ehp (195 dps with 4 ecm drones out).
It's a good setup; but it is not the best setup. If I saw a jag somewhere I would fight it.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.11 19:29:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Zhilia Mann on 11/08/2010 19:29:44
Originally by: Terik Voth
With my skills and hardwirings I get 250 dps and 7600 ehp (195 dps with 4 ecm drones out).
Yikes. Train your drone skills up a bit. I get 264 with the Warrior IIs and only 185 with the ECMs on that thing (edit: no relevant implants). 24 DPS from five low-damage scout drones pretty much screams "train DI 5".
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Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.11 23:19:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Goumeka Ghalvia on 11/08/2010 23:24:42
Terik, there are a few problems with that fitting.
1. MWD and blasters. Jaguar will scram and then even if it's webless you're not going to get close
2. Very closely tied to 1. You NEED to get close for this one to work. Jaguar won't let you do that so all that blaster DPS is gone. Consider it was never there.
3. Adaptive Nano Membrane doesn't do much for your Explosive hole in armor. Which brings your EHP way down. Always consider EHP for your worst resistance.
4. ECM drones work on a Jaguar but unless you possess extreme luck it won't be perma-jammed. First time they fail is the last time you see them.
5. Neutrons. They have awful tracking problems.
A fitting with a plate and an AR will work more often. MWD is great but then you should go for railguns and kite the Jaguar. Also try the double-rep (still didn't get a chance to test it) and maybe you can give us a detailed report on how well it works. |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.12 10:19:00 -
[83]
1. if you dont fit mwd you got very good chance of dieing to cruiser and bc every time you get off gate or station, for frig fights id go ab ofc, but in 0.0 its very hard to do because ishkur is very slow /also jag if you compare it to dram fotm/
2. ish with neutron blasters will be still doing around 70 GUN dps at 7k + 99 drone dps, jag is doing around 120 dps at 7k, i already showed you how "easy" is to kill drones /btw i have only around 1,2m sp in drones and af 4/
3. standard fit for ish is with explosive hardener anyway, so enjoy your barrage
4. they have 40% chance to jamm you, btw feel free to spend your time shooting drones
5. they have absolutely 0 tracking problems if you know what are you doing /especially if jag is fitted with 200mm acs with barrage/
Question is : Do ecm drones get new jamming cycle when you scoop and redeploy them or you have to wait 20 secs? If they get another cycle /i dont think so/, then just unleash ecm ***otry, if not, then just scoop them, launch combat drones, wait 20 secs and use ecm hornets again. Theres nearly 40% chance of jamm and theres VERY GOOD chance that if you get that jamm /even 1 while fight will most likely last 1 min and 20 - 40s/ it will be decisive moment of the fight.
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Baneken
Gallente
School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.08.12 11:16:00 -
[84]
No just simply order you drones to attack until they succeed (hint: use a hot key for it! ), they start a new cycle each time you order them to attack ... 
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Goumeka Ghalvia
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Posted - 2010.08.12 14:05:00 -
[85]
Will have to confirm the ECM drones info when I get a chance. I just don't use them enough. I did forget how far you can reach with null and neutrons so my bad there. Tracking is going to be ghastly but at that range it should work. I don't see many fittings with an explosive hardner. Most I've seen have an anti-explosive pump rig.
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Hamatitio
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.08.12 16:17:00 -
[86]
You are doing this all wrong, the best AF is by far the retribution.
Originally by: Forest Gump
And that's all I got to say 'bout that.
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Dibbles II
Kathryn Janeway Looks Ridiculous
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Posted - 2010.08.12 16:22:00 -
[87]
I don't agree with alot of the fits shown here for the Jag - the Ishkur imo is very easy and obvious to fit and still kicks ass - its half the reason it is such a revered ship.
Tried alot of Jag fits (out in space, not in theoryland), its really one of my all time favourites and should really be treated as a glorified rifter without the tracking (which makes the rifter awesome) and with an extra mid slot for extra awesome.
Therefore, I've always made the point of compensating somewhat for the tracking, particularly when AB'ing @ 500m range to mitigate damage taken while not messing up your own. Irrespective of the circumstance, better tracking means better hits means more dps than an out-of-game program indiciates.
This has met success in most instances except those occasions where I have ballsed up the initial engangement, or through superior SP from the opponent, or the usual suspect excuses. Avoid destroyers at all costs, fight ishkurs but control the range at 8-9 before closing.
tl;dr from all my waffle.
[Jaguar, Calliphora Vicina]
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II (alternatively a gyrostab II once you feel comfortable)
Coreli B-Type 1MN Afterburner (cold-arc gas just as good, but remember - you are flying a minnie ship and speed is your friend!)
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium Shield Extender II
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I (a field extender if you choose against the damage control)
I cannot stress how important it is to abandon looking at mindless figures and simply get out there and fight. Not every opponent is sitting in maxed out HG slave ishkurs, nor fitting anything remotely close to something that will give a 'gf'. I have fought many uber expensive shield boosted jags but the end result is they sacrifice that slot for a booster instead of web - and therefore can never dictate the range - and never get a kill off a sensible pilot.
P.S. this is an alt before all you kb monkeys start sniffing my bum
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.08.12 18:22:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Dibbles II
I don't agree with alot of the fits shown here for the Jag
I still believe my armor jagfit in page 1 will beat your jag fit ;)
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.08.12 18:22:00 -
[89]
Ab + scram + inject + web = 4 mids...
Also, where are these slaved ishkurs? 
***The EVE servers and their patches***
[b]"the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells b |
Dibbles II
Kathryn Janeway Looks Ridiculous
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Posted - 2010.08.13 09:54:00 -
[90]
Originally by: VanNostrum
Originally by: Dibbles II
I don't agree with alot of the fits shown here for the Jag
I still believe my armor jagfit in page 1 will beat your jag fit ;)
Good for you, although that was my shared universal roam fit and not (topic, OP, entire thread) about Jag v Jag. Belief is very different to knowing.
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