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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:48:00 -
[241]
Caldari -
I understand your point, and I do wish that the issues here would be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. My point is more that just because other people have scammed isn't evidence that another person will. I also think guilty until proven innocent might help protect your isk, but I think the way some things are being said on here (not specifically referring to you) are a bit out of line.
I think there is a line between "I don't like the recent issues, I'm not investing" and "He's definitely a scammer, everyone run!!!!one!". I suppose that is really my point.
In my humble opinion, it is the name-calling and trash talking that probably provoked the reaction from bsac, right or wrong.
Either way, guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do with their isk, but again would be nice to see everyone's questions answered
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.19 15:02:00 -
[242]
 Originally by: CRNA
Caldari -
I understand your point, and I do wish that the issues here would be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. My point is more that just because other people have scammed isn't evidence that another person will. I also think guilty until proven innocent might help protect your isk, but I think the way some things are being said on here (not specifically referring to you) are a bit out of line.
I think there is a line between "I don't like the recent issues, I'm not investing" and "He's definitely a scammer, everyone run!!!!one!". I suppose that is really my point.
In my humble opinion, it is the name-calling and trash talking that probably provoked the reaction from bsac, right or wrong.
Either way, guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do with their isk, but again would be nice to see everyone's questions answered
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.19 21:08:00 -
[243]
We added a new feature to the Stock Exchange. Intrinsic price charts for the previous 30 and 90 days have been added to the Mineral Indices, MRD, and BSAMR.
We will be adding stock trade charts soon.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 03:25:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
Caldari -
I understand your point, and I do wish that the issues here would be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. My point is more that just because other people have scammed isn't evidence that another person will. I also think guilty until proven innocent might help protect your isk, but I think the way some things are being said on here (not specifically referring to you) are a bit out of line.
I think there is a line between "I don't like the recent issues, I'm not investing" and "He's definitely a scammer, everyone run!!!!one!". I suppose that is really my point.
In my humble opinion, it is the name-calling and trash talking that probably provoked the reaction from bsac, right or wrong.
Either way, guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do with their isk, but again would be nice to see everyone's questions answered
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
Are you not happy because my text isn't big and colored red, because we all know that makes what you say true and important.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 04:28:00 -
[245]
Originally by: CRNA
Originally by: Kalrand
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
Are you not happy because my text isn't big and colored red, because we all know that makes what you say true and important.
Obviously you're well informed about the criticisms against BSAC, and feel that they aren't germane. That really would make you an idea investor.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 04:35:00 -
[246]
Automatic Deposit coming soon!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 05:22:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
Originally by: Kalrand
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
Are you not happy because my text isn't big and colored red, because we all know that makes what you say true and important.
Obviously you're well informed about the criticisms against BSAC, and feel that they aren't germane. That really would make you an idea investor.
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 05:57:00 -
[248]
Originally by: CRNA
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
I read it.
The problem with this thread isn't with what I wrote, how I wrote it, anything Raw wrote, or anything else.
It's the fact that in the face of criticism from several people, the only responses from BSAC, when they have come, have been very misdirective at best.
Rigged elections, talking about Boards of Trustees who are really at best business advisers, referring people to large piles of documents to answer basic questions, raising money at an ever greater clip, having various alts post in support, and especially decreasing the amount to be raised when trouble brews, are all the hallmarks of a con.
The fact that you see this as "some things being said on here are a bit out of line" means you missed the very early parts of the discussion where simple, basic questions and criticms were all we are talking about.
Your complete lack of research into this topic with the exception of browsing the last few posts is what makes you the best kind of investor for BSAC.
People didn't start screaming ponzi until Block and Poison started acting like this was a ponzi. A very big ponzi.
If the only thing that would make you believe that this is a con is for the first check to bounce, than just hang out for a while.
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 16:28:00 -
[249]
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 16:29:57
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
I read it.
The problem with this thread isn't with what I wrote, how I wrote it, anything Raw wrote, or anything else.
It's the fact that in the face of criticism from several people, the only responses from BSAC, when they have come, have been very misdirective at best.
Rigged elections, talking about Boards of Trustees who are really at best business advisers, referring people to large piles of documents to answer basic questions, raising money at an ever greater clip, having various alts post in support, and especially decreasing the amount to be raised when trouble brews, are all the hallmarks of a con.
The fact that you see this as "some things being said on here are a bit out of line" means you missed the very early parts of the discussion where simple, basic questions and criticms were all we are talking about.
Your complete lack of research into this topic with the exception of browsing the last few posts is what makes you the best kind of investor for BSAC.
People didn't start screaming ponzi until Block and Poison started acting like this was a ponzi. A very big ponzi.
If the only thing that would make you believe that this is a con is for the first check to bounce, than just hang out for a while.
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you. Just because you think they're acting like its a Ponzi, doesn't make it so. I've never claimed anything either way, besides the fact you're just jumping to conclusions. You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct. Just because BSAC isn't reacting how you feel they should, doesn't automatically make it a scam.
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions. You've decided I haven't read the thread, that this is a Ponzi, and several other things I'm sure.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:07:00 -
[250]
Originally by: CRNA
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you.
Oh I picked up on that.
Originally by: CRNA
you're just jumping to conclusions.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions.
You may write a lot of words, but you sure do repeat yourself a lot.
Look, you're right, I don't have the BSAC super secret records. No one does who isn't already playing with a giant pile of money and asking for even more money.
I still think that this is a ponzi. I'm open to someone showing me that I'm wrong.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:01:00 -
[251]
Originally by: CRNA
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 16:29:57
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
I read it.
The problem with this thread isn't with what I wrote, how I wrote it, anything Raw wrote, or anything else.
It's the fact that in the face of criticism from several people, the only responses from BSAC, when they have come, have been very misdirective at best.
Rigged elections, talking about Boards of Trustees who are really at best business advisers, referring people to large piles of documents to answer basic questions, raising money at an ever greater clip, having various alts post in support, and especially decreasing the amount to be raised when trouble brews, are all the hallmarks of a con.
The fact that you see this as "some things being said on here are a bit out of line" means you missed the very early parts of the discussion where simple, basic questions and criticms were all we are talking about.
Your complete lack of research into this topic with the exception of browsing the last few posts is what makes you the best kind of investor for BSAC.
People didn't start screaming ponzi until Block and Poison started acting like this was a ponzi. A very big ponzi.
If the only thing that would make you believe that this is a con is for the first check to bounce, than just hang out for a while.
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you. Just because you think they're acting like its a Ponzi, doesn't make it so. I've never claimed anything either way, besides the fact you're just jumping to conclusions. You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct. Just because BSAC isn't reacting how you feel they should, doesn't automatically make it a scam.
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions. You've decided I haven't read the thread, that this is a Ponzi, and several other things I'm sure.
So when an MD offering looks EXACTLY like a ponzi scheme, people are supposed to sit back and not say anything about it, let the offering continue on course, etc., because "you shouldn't jump to conclusions!" ?? Ok, makes sense. Not. Guilty until proven innocent in EVE/MD, that';s the way it HAS to work to help reduce the amount of scams. BSAC at this moment is guilty and are unwilling to prove otherwise. 'Flaming' is a consequence they'll have to deal with :D
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:18:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you.
Oh I picked up on that.
Originally by: CRNA
you're just jumping to conclusions.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions.
You may write a lot of words, but you sure do repeat yourself a lot.
Look, you're right, I don't have the BSAC super secret records. No one does who isn't already playing with a giant pile of money and asking for even more money.
I still think that this is a ponzi. I'm open to someone showing me that I'm wrong.
Jumping to a conclusion, making an assumption, and you being a self-important person who makes statements that aren't backed up by evidence are all three separate things. If you'd like to consider them all the same and I am repeating myself, it is most likely due to the fact you're not the best at reading comprehension.
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:25:00 -
[253]
Originally by: CRNA
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
Lets just focus on this point and stop fighting.
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:26:00 -
[254]
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 19:27:52
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
Lets just focus on this point and stop fighting.
Fair enough, back before there were some things raw brought up, which would be great if a BSAC rep would address...
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:49:00 -
[255]
Originally by: CRNA
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 19:27:52
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
Lets just focus on this point and stop fighting.
Fair enough, back before there were some things raw brought up, which would be great if a BSAC rep would address...
Cap ships will soon be ready to audit.Then we are going to work on a plan to make minmal audit able with out showing the strategy. Then an auditor will need to be found and paid for by my guess amarr155
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:54:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Poison
Cap ships will soon be ready to audit.Then we are going to work on a plan to make minmal audit able with out showing the strategy. Then an auditor will need to be found and paid for by my guess amarr155
I don't think anyone is questioning that you "have some isk", it's that you've raised 700b so far.
Just because you stuff some cash into a ready made corp you have doesn't mean everything else is all hunky dory.
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Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
KAAII-NET
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:25:00 -
[257]
What a troll...
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:40:00 -
[258]
Please keep this thread on topic. The purpose of this thread is for questions and announcements regarding the BSAC Stock Exchange.
Regarding the controversy,
BSAC has been running for almost Five years, and has been operating within its guidelines. We offer a variety of investment products; some of them are 100% liquid û no other investment in eve offers 100% liquid stocks. We had many zero coupon bonds and ventures successfully ended, and have collaborated with others on their own bonds. We managed the only real-time stock exchange (no trading fees). We publish the ore income table where prices are based on our regional trades. As the leader in the secondary market, we are planning to launch futures and short selling.
I have answered RAW23 questions within the limitations set by our policies and investment strategies. Certain information RAW23 requested cannot be provided without me breaching our privacy policy. While, RAW23 disagree with this policy, he has not labeled BSAC as a scam.
BSAC BOD has ALWAYS had an advisory role. This is not something new like some people may try to make. Although, IÆm the CEO, I have always followed the BODÆs decisions. In addition, the BOD has access to confidential Exchange records but is not at liberty to disclose any account/trade information.
I have no issues with people disagreeing with our policies, because it is useful. The BOD is working on a plan to address some of the concerns raised by the public. However, disagreeing with our policies give people no right to initiate a smearing campaign.
Post after post, Karland has shown that he is attempting to misinform the public. I would suggest researching Karland, and you may understand his obsession with labeling BSAC as ponzi scheme. He has been continuously trolling this thread seeking attention. I have no respect for his opinion and have already informed him that IÆm not interested in discussing anything with him.
Investing is a personal decision. If BSAC is not the right investment for you, then I respect your decision not to invest. You can join our in-game public channel, BSACPUBLIC. IÆm usually online 00:00 û 02:00 evetime.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:47:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Post after post, Karland has shown that he is attempting to misinform the public. I would suggest researching Karland, and you may understand his obsession with labeling BSAC as ponzi scheme. He has been continuously trolling this thread seeking attention. I have no respect for his opinion and have already informed him that IÆm not interested in discussing anything with him.
Please feel free to research me. Also, try to get my name right in the future.
I'd love to know what you think my motivation is.
(Hint: It starts with your own hypocrisy in another thread.)
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:56:00 -
[260]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 21/01/2011 23:05:53
Originally by: Block Ukx
Post after post, Karland has shown that he is attempting to misinform the public.
could you point us to a specific example of deliberate misinformation by Kalrand?
or are you just throwing around the term "misinformation" because some of his considerations do not match with your super-sekrit company records and you don't want to (or cannot) provide any substance to prove him wrong?
I like to think I am pretty well aware of what's going on on this forum and I have no idea what Kalrand's nefarious agenda is supposed to be or what information "researching" Kalrand would yield (and a quick look through his eve-search records don't lead me to believe that I have missed any major thread he posted in).
edit: also, trying to turn RAW23's comments into some sort of endorsement ... 
He probably won't call your venture a scam until you yourself have declared it to be one (as until then there is still room for doubt that it is legit, just bad business practices that are disadvantageous for the investors, a business failure, ...).
As far as I am aware he didn't even call the current EBANK management directly "scammers" despite them withholding customers' ISK for an excessive period of time.
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:22:00 -
[261]
Unbelievable, now I have to prove to you that Kalrand is wrong.
And I wasnÆt aware that trade secrets must be disclosed. Is that your new rule? So if someone doesnÆt tell you how he makes money trading, then he is a scammer till he shows you his trade secrets? Good luck!
If you are in for a serious discussion then you need to do better than that.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:36:00 -
[262]
Once again the misinformation campaign .. not by Kalrand, but by the BSAC 2 :) You may not like what's being posted in your thread, but it's not "trolling" it is perfectly legitimate concerns and questions, that you have repeatedly avoided and dodged. It is in the interest of those in MD that a supposed/alleged company with a public exposure amounting to 700billion isk is not allowed to just sweep under the carpet issues raised by calling the people involved trolls or the like. It's your right, Block, to post in MD with regards to your corp but it's our right to use your PUBLIC forum thread to make sure the message stays on track to the benefit of the public and not your own private concerns (fancy telling people to keep out of your thread when you are using a public forum to profit of just because you dislike valid criticism!) and that track is simple .. This looks from every angle to be a ponzi scheme, and you have thus far been unwilling to prove otherwise. You can write all the spreadsheets you want but they mean nothing without verification.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:43:00 -
[263]
And who is going to verify this information? You? I wouldnÆt trust you with 10 ISK, let alone with the entire operation.
And stop lying about me not answering questions. Start reading.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Molic Blackbird
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Posted - 2011.01.22 00:27:00 -
[264]
Assume an audit is done and proves that the BSAC has 700b ISK. Would that prove that the BSAC is not a ponzi scheme? Not at all. It can prove he has 700b ISK worth of goods. That is it. An audit can not prove nor disprove that the BSAC will scam at some point down the road.
If an audit is done and proves Block's valuation correct, will everyone in this thread that is being critical of the BSAC shut up with the ponzi claims?
I've had many in game conversations with Block over 2-3 years. Based on that and also paying close attention to mineral buy and sell orders I have no doubt the numbers being reported are accurate.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:07:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Assume an audit is done and proves that the BSAC has 700b ISK. Would that prove that the BSAC is not a ponzi scheme? Not at all. It can prove he has 700b ISK worth of goods. That is it. An audit can not prove nor disprove that the BSAC will scam at some point down the road.
If an audit is done and proves Block's valuation correct, will everyone in this thread that is being critical of the BSAC shut up with the ponzi claims?
I've had many in game conversations with Block over 2-3 years. Based on that and also paying close attention to mineral buy and sell orders I have no doubt the numbers being reported are accurate.
And that is exactly what would prove it is not a ponzi scheme, DOH! ;) There is no way an audit will stop him walking away with that 700billion but many of us doubt he even has the 700billion anymore and that is the point - is this a ponzi or not?
His response about "who would I trust? you? not with 10 isk!" goes to show more how unwilling to cooperate he is - he knows damn well there are trusted third parties he could turn to to verify his claims, so he is simply muddying the water with that comment. As for 'stop lying and read' I have read, and so can everyone else read through the 'discussions' that were had .. ;)
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:21:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 01:23:22
You prove my point that you are not reading what itÆs been posted. We are working on the audit, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. First step is to move BSAC CSF to a separate account, which we are doing right now.
Obviously, you have no interest in a serious discussion since you already made up your mind.
EDIT: Would you care to mention the trusted third parties you referring to?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:27:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 22/01/2011 01:27:42
Originally by: Block Ukx
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 01:23:22
You prove my point that you are not reading what itÆs been posted. We are working on the audit, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. First step is to move BSAC CSF to a separate account, which we are doing right now.
Obviously, you have no interest in a serious discussion since you already made up your mind.
EDIT: Would you care to mention the trusted third parties you referring to?
Your audit is only going to be partial and will not prove 700billion isk exists, C/D? :) Exactly .. the ponzi-claim still stands.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:34:00 -
[268]
Keep up your misinformation propaganda, and continue to lie.
You keep repeating the word ponzi, believing that if you keep saying it would become true.
It would be a current asset audit as it has been mention before.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:38:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Keep up your misinformation propaganda, and continue to lie.
You keep repeating the word ponzi, believing that if you keep saying it would become true.
It would be a current asset audit as it has been mention before.
You have said it will show certain parts, not others .. if you are now saying it will be a FULL audit of all your assets, thus proving 700billion isk, then that is fantastic.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:45:00 -
[270]
Let me be very clear as I don't want any more misinterpretations.
It would be a current asset audit, where only total NAV be disclosed, nothing less, nothing more. So it would be his best estimation of the value of the corporation.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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