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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.07.28 20:40:00 -
[1]
BSAC Stock Exchange (BSE) û Over 100,000 Hits and 236 Billions in transactions
Since we started keeping track of the number of hits in our exchange website, we now have over 100,000 hits!
Over 236 Billion ISK has been transacted without a single ISK gone missing.
BSE is the only real-time exchange in the Eve universe. Trades occur instantly and best of all there are no trading fees. Join today.
New Fund Approved
TITANS4U has been approved for trading. Register your shares today and commence trading.
Mutual Funds
We are looking for Fund Managers. Create and manage your own Fund within the exchange. Contact me if you think you have what it takes to launch and manage your own mutual fund.
Stock Listing
You think you have a hot stock that would like to see listed in the Exchange? If your stock meets the minimum requirements, then register your stock and start trading in the Exchange; is that simple.
Any Questions?
DonÆt hesitate to ask questions in this thread.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2010.07.28 21:38:00 -
[2]
Impressive numbers Block. Good to see a great idea thriving. 
--------------------------------------
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Smelly Bait
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Posted - 2010.07.29 12:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Smelly Bait on 29/07/2010 12:44:35
nice :) but how does it work?
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.29 12:48:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ambo
Impressive numbers Block. Good to see a great idea thriving.
Or as that one dude allways said: 'I love it when a plan comes together'
Nice work indeed block and keep it up
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.07.30 00:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Smelly Bait
how does it work?
It's very simple. Open an account, then begin trading. You can create as many Buy/Sell orders as you like. There are no trading fees.
Details can be found under our Information Desk menu.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.07.30 02:06:00 -
[6]
Softball Questions:
How would being involved in this fund help me as a:
1.Miner
2.Producer
3.Trader
4.Pure Investor
I await your answers.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.07.30 02:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Patri Andari
How would being involved in this fund help me as a:
1.Miner
2.Producer
3.Trader
4.Pure Investor
The Exchange is geared towards people interested in profiting from trading in the secondary market. It offers a place for investors to trade shares in real time. A novel feature of the Exchange is the stock splits, which allows people with a smaller budget to invest in the secondary market.
As for benefits to miners, producers, and traders, the Mineral Indices serve as a guide to regional mineral prices. We also offer an ore income page to help miners determine the most profitable ore to mine.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.07.31 01:08:00 -
[8]
I'm looking for one share of TITANS4U for the Exchange so I can track dividends. Please contact me if you don't mine selling me one.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.31 01:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I'm looking for one share of TITANS4U for the Exchange so I can track dividends. Please contact me if you don't mine selling me one.
You now have 1 share  Consider it a donation for all your hard work.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.07.31 01:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Breaker77
You now have 1 share Consider it a donation for all your hard work.
Your donation is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Netherfiend
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Posted - 2010.08.02 10:08:00 -
[11]
Dear sir,
Thank you for an excellent share trading platform.
I have one question however, now that LyII is closing down,
do i need to sell my shares back ?
I see an buy order in your exchange but i believe the liquidation was completed ?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.02 23:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Netherfiend
... now that LyII is closing down,
do i need to sell my shares back ?
No. A liquidation payment has been made. Those shares are now obsolete.
Originally by: Netherfiend
I see an buy order in your exchange but i believe the liquidation was completed ?
All orders have been terminated and trades made after liquidation payment were reverted.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 03/08/2010 00:15:44
Could you please expand a little about mutual funds facilities you implement, costs etc?
Edit: any chance to being able to convert those mutual funds into ETFs?
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Could you please expand a little about mutual funds facilities you implement, costs etc?
The basic idea is to have a Mutual Fund manager trade shares that are listed in the Exchange. The Fund manager will decide the name of the Fund, its size and outstanding shares, what to invest in, when to pay dividend, managerÆs fees, etc. The Exchange simply provides the tools necessary to accomplish these tasks. ShareholderÆs list, NAV, ISK dividend form, etc, is all integrated within the Exchange.
At present, BSAMT is looking for a fund manager. BSAMT is a mineral index mutual fund, so itÆs limited to index shares.
We are interested in having at least one Mutual Fund manager to test our system.
At this stage, there will be no cost associated with creating a Mutual Fund. However, we would like no more than two managers at this time.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
any chance to being able to convert those mutual funds into ETFs?
Perhaps at a later time, once the fund manager tools are debugged.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Redshift XIII
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Posted - 2010.08.03 02:19:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Redshift XIII on 03/08/2010 02:19:27
Block, I'm sorry if this is a noob question:
I checked out the BSAC site and I want to register an account. Per the instructions on the site I sent an in-game mail to BSAC MMM regarding registration and I didn't see any CSPA charge or CSPA msg, so I then sent 1mil to BSAC MMM using "Give Money" - did I do that right? I have a feeling I misunderstood the instructions, as dumb as that may be :(
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DJ Markus
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:05:00 -
[16]
i believe you did it correctly but it will take him a week to get back to you... it says thats somewhere too that all accounts will be created at 01:00 eve time on sturdays i think :)
i hope that helps :)
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Redshift XIII
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: DJ Markus
i believe you did it correctly but it will take him a week to get back to you... it says thats somewhere too that all accounts will be created at 01:00 eve time on sturdays i think :)
i hope that helps :)
Right, I read that too & I was hoping that was the case. I just wanted to make sure I didn't screw up ;)
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.04 00:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Redshift XIII
I just wanted to make sure I didn't screw up ;)
ISK recieved and account details sent.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.04 02:57:00 -
[19]
Fund in Development
New Horizon Investments Mutual Fund
Ticker: NHIMF
Manager: Skarii TuThess
ETA: August 06, 2010. Have your accounts ready for the weekend!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Azelle Storm'Eye
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Posted - 2010.08.05 15:34:00 -
[20]
Greetings Block
It looks interesting, but I was wondering.
Is it possible to see how many shares have been traded and to what price on the different shares for sale, like we could on RESX.
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Regulator6
Minmatar
3 Red Fish
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Posted - 2010.08.05 16:11:00 -
[21]
This is a great site. If you don't have much isk to throw around or if you're worried about the risks so far this has only benifited me. Easy and simple to use too. Thanks Block for all your hard work.
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Scott Callari
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:20:00 -
[22]
Hi Block,
I am really interested in investing but I am not really that familiar with how exchanges work as far as how money is made.
My main interest at first would be your mutual funds but I am a bit confused by how I would make money from the investment. Is there some pay out that occurs on a specific day according to how many shares one has? Part of my confusion is I am still learning exactly how shares work in game as well.
Thanks and sorry if this is a nub question.
Scott-
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Scott Callari
Hi Block,
I am really interested in investing but I am not really that familiar with how exchanges work as far as how money is made.
My main interest at first would be your mutual funds but I am a bit confused by how I would make money from the investment. Is there some pay out that occurs on a specific day according to how many shares one has? Part of my confusion is I am still learning exactly how shares work in game as well.
Thanks and sorry if this is a nub question.
Scott-
Scott, don't be sorry. I started 1 year and half ago in your same situation and now thanks to MD forum heaps of knowledge I am trading RL securities 
Just ask politely, be patient, separate the good info from the bad.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Annabelle Horiz
New Horizon Investments
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Posted - 2010.08.05 20:23:00 -
[24]
NHIMF has opened. Please see the following thread for details:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1364522
Remember that all purchases occur within the BSAC exchange itself. To purchase shares you must open an account! Will be happy to answer any questions anyone may have in the linked thread. Block will no doubt be better able to answer many of the questions than me of course!
[NHI] Investing in the sunny days of tomorrow. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.06 01:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Scott Callari
Hi Block,
I am really interested in investing but I am not really that familiar with how exchanges work as far as how money is made.
My main interest at first would be your mutual funds but I am a bit confused by how I would make money from the investment. Is there some pay out that occurs on a specific day according to how many shares one has? Part of my confusion is I am still learning exactly how shares work in game as well.
Thanks and sorry if this is a nub question.
Scott-
The Exchange works very similar to the Eve Market, except that you sell and buy stocks. Just like the Eve Market, where individuals make money from trading items by buying low and selling high, you can make money by trading stocks in the Exchange.
In addition to the potential earnings from trading stocks, most stocks pay dividends and increase in value over time. Therefore, it is not completely necessary to trade stocks in order to make money. Some investors simply purchase stocks and hold on to them for their dividends.
Some stocks are good for trading, others are good for dividends. You will need to research each stock and determine which trading style best suits you.
Investing in stock involves two types of risk. One is scam risk, where the stock CEO goes missing after selling you the corporation shares. The second is investment risk, which is determined by the type of business the corporation does. So it is very important that you do your research before investing.
Mutual funds are ideal if you want a broad investment. Typically, a mutual fund invests in various stocks and its dividend payment comes from its stock portfolio. Your dividend payment will be based on the number of shares you own relative to the total number of outstanding shares.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.06 01:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Azelle Storm'Eye
Greetings Block
It looks interesting, but I was wondering.
Is it possible to see how many shares have been traded and to what price on the different shares for sale, like we could on RESX.
A "Recent Trades" history of the last five trades has been added. Is that what you were looking for?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Fund in Development
New Horizon Investments Mutual Fund
Ticker: NHIMF
Manager: Skarii TuThess
ETA: August 06, 2010. Have your accounts ready for the weekend!
IPO SOLD OUT!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.09 21:30:00 -
[28]
TITANS4U issued a dividend of 217.54 ISK per share.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.09 21:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Block Ukx
TITANS4U issued a dividend of 217.54 ISK per share.
To prevent confusion, I think it would be best if you'd specify that this concerns the 1/100th shares on BSAC and not the ingame shares.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.09 21:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Block Ukx
TITANS4U issued a dividend of 217.54 ISK per share.
To prevent confusion, I think it would be best if you'd specify that this concerns the 1/100th shares on BSAC and not the ingame shares.
Yes, very good point. Registered shares have a stock split of 100 registered share per in-game share to allow higher volume and more economic trading. Current - bid: 12,025 - ask:12,975, so no need to spend millions if you want to venture into the secondary market.
For details visit the TITANS4U Exchange page.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.12 19:16:00 -
[31]
We are currently developing new features for the Exchange:
- Savings
- Credit Rating
- Short Selling Minerals
ETA Mid-September
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.15 02:06:00 -
[32]
IMPORTANT
I'll be away with no access to eve and until August 26. Poison will be taking care of the Exchange during my absence. You should contact him directly for deposits. No new accounts will be created till my return. Poison will process all withdraw requests.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.29 18:25:00 -
[33]
Everything is back to normal. We will be adding a "Cash Reserve" option for investors to gain interest on deposited ISK.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
LeonessDarkpaw
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Posted - 2010.08.30 02:12:00 -
[34]
What will this cash reserve option mean?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
What will this cash reserve option mean?
You will be able to transfer ISK from your account wallet (ISK Available) into a Cash Reserve that will earn interest daily. A large part on the Cash Reserve will be managed by Poison (BSAC BOD Chairman). Part of the Cash Reserve will be used to provide liquidity for the upcomming short selling. Interest rates around (1% - 3%) to be determine.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
LeonessDarkpaw
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Posted - 2010.08.31 00:00:00 -
[36]
What safe guards will be in place since poison will involved and does he have any experience? 3% is not bad and I assume isk can be withdrawn at anytime?
Thank You
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.08.31 01:20:00 -
[37]
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
What safe guards will be in place since poison will involved and does he have any experience? 3% is not bad and I assume isk can be withdrawn at anytime?
Thank You
As with any investment, there are no ôsafe guardsö in place that would prevent a scam or lost of ISK due to poor management. However, I will oversee the Cash Reserve management, followed the progress via API software, and prepare a monthly report.
Poison has extensive experience in trading and manufacturing and I have no doubts that he will be very successful at managing the Cash Reserve. About 40% of the Cash Reserve will remain 100% liquid, while the rest will be used in short and long term projects. The exact distribution will be published in the monthly reports.
In addition, Poison is heavily invested in BSAC, is the chairman of the Board of Directors, and the designated Trustee of BSAC in the event IÆm not able to return to Eve.
ISK in the Cash Reserve can be withdrawn at any time.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
LeonessDarkpaw
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Posted - 2010.08.31 19:27:00 -
[38]
When will this be taken into effect? Will this isk include divs paid on electrionic shares that are in the web site? Is the rate caped at 3% can it go higher? What if someone wants to withdraw like 50b isk? I would assume there would be some kind of delay for cashing this type of amount?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.01 00:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
When will this be taken into effect?
Release date is Mid-to-Late September. Right now IÆm testing the code.
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
Will this isk include divs paid on electrionic shares that are in the web site?
No. Dividend payments on registered shares are deposited into the main account wallet (ISK Available). You will need to login and transfer the ISK from ôISK Availableö to ôCash Reserveö.
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
Is the rate caped at 3% can it go higher?
Interest rates will be variable and eventually caped at a Š 0.2 % monthly change. The idea behind the variable rate is twofold. One to ensure the Cash Reserve remains profitable, and second, to control the amount of ISK in the Cash Reserve.
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
What if someone wants to withdraw like 50b isk? I would assume there would be some kind of delay for cashing this type of amount?
As always, l recommend people to contact me ahead of time if you plan a large withdraw so we can sell our assets. Since 40% of the assets will remain highly liquidable (20% ISK and 20 % short-sell), I would suggest to limit your deposit to 20% of the Cash Reserve NAV.
BSAC does have a ôPotentially disruptive redemptionsö policy in place. BSAC reserves the right to delay payment off all or part of a redemption for up to fourteen calendar days if BSAC reasonably believe that a cash redemption would disrupt operations or performance or that the shareholder may be engaged in illegal trading. Please contact BSAC before you attempt to redeem a large ISK amount, you may avoid delayed payment of your redemption.
We have yet to delay any ISK withdrawal in our four years of operations.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Quadrantid
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Posted - 2010.09.02 22:23:00 -
[40]
Just by means of a shameless bump for this thread -- just wanted to say I put a little money into this the other day, and I'm really enjoying playing around in there. Thanks for putting together an interesting and useful service :D
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.04 03:06:00 -
[41]
NEW Cash Reserve Open
ISK deposited in the cash reserve accumulates 0.000658% daily interests (approximately 2% monthly). Interest rates are subject to change monthly. Interests are paid after the end of the month. ISK removed prior to the PAYOUT day will not earn interst. There are no transfer fees.
Under Development
We are currently developing new features for the Exchange:
- Credit Rating
- Short Selling Minerals
Delisted
TITANS4U
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.04 16:53:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Under Development
We are currently developing new features for the Exchange:
Projects Blog |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 16:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Credit Rating
Please don't implement this willy-nilly, the cool factor it may have for you is far outweighed by the damage it could cause the larger EVE market investment community.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:19:00 -
[44]
This is obviously a scam, if not immediately then at some point in the future. Mark my words people.
---
☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻ |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Captain Pompous
This is obviously a scam, if not immediately then at some point in the future. Mark my words people.
Quick, post this in every thread so you'll be proven right eventually.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:59:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Captain Pompous
This is obviously a scam, if not immediately then at some point in the future. Mark my words people.
Quick, post this in every thread so you'll be proven right eventually.
Block has been planing on expanding the web site for a while. We talked about how the latest scam was going to hurt us in the short term. All we can do is continue looking long term. Block has yet to scam anyone after years of service. Some people enjoy scaming in eve. Block and I enjoy helping everyone in eve. Its the main reasons why we continue playing the game. But lets remember, its only a game.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.05 01:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Block Ukx
Credit Rating
Please don't implement this willy-nilly, the cool factor it may have for you is far outweighed by the damage it could cause the larger EVE market investment community.
The credit rating will be an internal number used to determine margin requirements and individual short selling interest rates. The higher your stake in BSAC the higher your rating will be. Also, the more short positions you close the higher your rating will be. If you fail to maintain adequate margins, or if we have to buyout your short position, then your rating will be decline.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
LeonessDarkpaw
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Posted - 2010.09.06 20:44:00 -
[48]
Hello,
I noticed you added on the web site cash reserve balance. I assume this is what the reserve has currently or what it needs currently?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.07 01:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
Hello,
I noticed you added on the web site cash reserve balance. I assume this is what the reserve has currently or what it needs currently?
Cash reserve balance is the actual balance of deposits in the Cash Reserve.
Login details sent.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting
United Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.08 03:30:00 -
[50]
Is this stock exchange active? I sent an Eve mail over a week ago, but I haven't heard any response.
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting CEO
Blog, @vol_jbolaz |
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.08 03:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Vol Jbolaz
Is this stock exchange active? I sent an Eve mail over a week ago, but I haven't heard any response.
What char did you send the mail too. I recomend BSAC MMM or Block as the logs in the most with those.
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Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting
United Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.08 03:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Poison
What char did you send the mail too. I recomend BSAC MMM or Block as the logs in the most with those.
I sent it to Block, on the 31st. He could be really really busy, I don't know.
It is also possible he just thinks my corp is a scam.
Could be possible that his stock exchange is a scam and he politely ignores any real companies until he can make way with teh lootz. 
Eh... it is no biggie. I'll go check into LLSE if I don't hear back in a few (more) days. 
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting CEO
Blog, @vol_jbolaz |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vol Jbolaz
Originally by: Poison
What char did you send the mail too. I recomend BSAC MMM or Block as the logs in the most with those.
I sent it to Block, on the 31st. He could be really really busy, I don't know ...
Yes, always busy. Reply sent. It is best to email BSAC MMM.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:20:00 -
[54]
My site report from norton 360...
fyi..
Threat Report
Total threats found: 9
Small-whitebg-red Viruses (what's this?)
Threats found: 6
Here is a complete list: (for more information about a specific threat, click on the Threat Name below)
Threat Name: W32.Pinfi
Location: http://www.sicateam.webege.com/download/download/mig33/AMMC%203.6%20%20Api.exe
Threat Name: Downloader
Location: http://www.westsidestory.co.kr/download/westsidestory_weblaunch.cab
Threat Name: W32.Virut!html
Location: http://bandlegend.webege.com/About.php
Threat Name: W32.Virut!html
Location: http://bandlegend.webege.com/
Threat Name: W32.Virut!html
Location: http://bandlegend.webege.com/Reg.php
Threat Name: Direct link to W32.Virut!html
Location: http://bandlegend.webege.com/
Small-whitebg-red Drive-By Downloads (what's this?)
Threats found: 3
Here is a complete list: (for more information about a specific threat, click on the Threat Name below)
Threat Name: HTTP Gumblar Request
Location: http://ygourcuff.webege.com/videos/
Threat Name: Downloader
File name: c:\windows\temp\icd1.tmp\westsidestory_weblaunch.dll
Location: http://normal.webege.com/
Threat Name: HTTP MS Office Web Components Code Exec 1
Location: http://isuruhost.webege.com/
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:23:00 -
[55]
me thinks you need to do a little house cleaning...
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:38:00 -
[56]
Block has been talking about changing hosting companies. Maybe now is a good time.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.08 19:43:00 -
[57]
Running a web tracker while actually navigating the site I don't get any of these files or web locations popup.
I think the problem is Norton360 is scanning the host - webege.com and it's finding these. When you use the exchange or the website you don't get linked to bandlegend.webege.com/ or sicateam.webege.com/ or any of the others.
When you connect specifically to bandlegend.webege.com my virus protection lights up.. Block doesn't own the hosting company so other website on the same domain are clearly having issues but bsacse.webege.com/ is clear from what I can see.
If the hosting company doesn't keep ALL the websites clean however, It would be a good time to switch over.
Amarr for Life |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.09.08 20:41:00 -
[58]
Problem is that he (and I) tried several of these free sites "No ads PHP + DB hosting" and sooner or later they crash and have no backup policy or are used by scammers / hackers and so on.
Of course the best choice would be to get into a nice "real" hosting, but I calculated that I'd need to shell like 30-40 euros a month for the features I need (including SSL certificates, term and more). Who wants to spend 300 euros a year for some zero income site with 10 hits a day?
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.09 00:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kaaii
My site report from norton 360...
fyi..
Threat Report ...
I contacted the hostmaster and sent him your thread report. Hopefully they'll clean it up.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.12 21:55:00 -
[60]
FYI, Poison is doing a great job managing the Cash Reserve; already netting well over the required 2% interests.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
|
Dichotomi
|
Posted - 2010.09.13 11:39:00 -
[61]
I would like to know if the exchange will be offering (and requiring from listed corps) any kind of prospectus on the stocks that are available?
i.e. I want to know what I am investing in before I do so.
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.13 19:33:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Dichotomi
I would like to know if the exchange will be offering (and requiring from listed corps) any kind of prospectus on the stocks that are available?
i.e. I want to know what I am investing in before I do so.
We only list corporations that have published their business plan in the MD forums with a positive review, and are at least one month old. You should be able to find a link to their prospectus and/or their business plan in their respective Exchange page.
A new requirement is a full API key for review purposes.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Poison
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.14 01:41:00 -
[63]
Starting Today I would like to ask block to raise the cash reserve rate to 3%
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Machete Visor
|
Posted - 2010.09.14 04:17:00 -
[64]
Block, I may have missed in (just read the entire thread). For the liquid ISK portion that you hold on behalf of investors (I think you said 20%), who holds that ISK? Is it someone outside of the operation?
I know I'd feel a ton better knowing that there is atleast 20% backstopping any critical failure to the investment strategy (as compared to 0). So long as the person holding it doesn't run off with it...
Thinking about putting ISK in, so this is not just a trolling question.
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.15 00:24:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Machete Visor
... For the liquid ISK portion that you hold on behalf of investors (I think you said 20%), who holds that ISK? Is it someone outside of the operation?
The idea is for me to keep 20% liquid ISK, and another 20% for shortselling. At this point, Poison is holding 95% of the Cash Reserve ISK and has been doing a great job multiplying it. He is the largest investor in BSAC and have no reason to beleive he will run with it.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Dalden V
Blue Lounge Industries
|
Posted - 2010.09.15 15:06:00 -
[66]
Hi Block, some questions.
I can't seem to find a place on the website where the current value of the Cash Reserve is listed. Where should I click? :)
You also mention that Poison is currently heavily invested in BSAC. If he does decide to run off with the Cash Reserve, will his BSAC investments be liquidated to cover the loss, and are you able to make this total invested value public to assist in assessing the risk of investing in the Cash Reserve fund?
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.15 19:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dalden V
Hi Block, some questions.
I can't seem to find a place on the website where the current value of the Cash Reserve is listed. Where should I click? :)
You also mention that Poison is currently heavily invested in BSAC. If he does decide to run off with the Cash Reserve, will his BSAC investments be liquidated to cover the loss, and are you able to make this total invested value public to assist in assessing the risk of investing in the Cash Reserve fund?
The Cash Reserve Balance is displayed in the "Home" page.
If he runs off with the ISK, yes, BSAC will confiscate his assets. I would not make his investment public; he can tell you that himself.
I would like to point out that Poison's BSAC investment will not be used as a collateral to cover any operational loss. So, please don't assume that the ISK is secure in anyways.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Dalden V
Blue Lounge Industries
|
Posted - 2010.09.15 20:04:00 -
[68]
Thanks for the clarification. I'll give him a bit more ISK to play with, and see what he can do :).
Oh, is the 3% interest Poison mentioned official?
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.15 20:16:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Dalden V
Oh, is the 3% interest Poison mentioned official?
Yes, for October.
September 2%
October 3%
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Poison
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 04:39:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Poison on 16/09/2010 04:39:17
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Dalden V
Hi Block, some questions.
I can't seem to find a place on the website where the current value of the Cash Reserve is listed. Where should I click? :)
You also mention that Poison is currently heavily invested in BSAC. If he does decide to run off with the Cash Reserve, will his BSAC investments be liquidated to cover the loss, and are you able to make this total invested value public to assist in assessing the risk of investing in the Cash Reserve fund?
The Cash Reserve Balance is displayed in the "Home" page.
If he runs off with the ISK, yes, BSAC will confiscate his assets. I would not make his investment public; he can tell you that himself.
I would like to point out that Poison's BSAC investment will not be used as a collateral to cover any operational loss. So, please don't assume that the ISK is secure in anyways.
If it makes you feel better I have over 100b isk in blocks mineral reserve alone. Feel free to verify this block.
|
|
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 21:48:00 -
[71]
Short selling release date will be postpone to Mid-October.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting
United Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.09.22 02:02:00 -
[72]
Have I been forgotten, or rejected?
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting CEO
Blog, @vol_jbolaz |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.23 02:35:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vol Jbolaz
Have I been forgotten, or rejected?
Your Fund is now listed in the Exchange
New Fund
Odinsdagrting
Ticker: ODNDT
Manager: Vol Jbolaz
STOCK SPLIT 100 registerd shares per in-game shares
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting
United Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.09.23 03:49:00 -
[74]
Woot. I'll have to keep the stock conversion in mind. And anyone buying shares on this exchange will need to keep that in mind when looking at the balance sheets and monthly reports.
Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting CEO
Blog, @vol_jbolaz |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.26 16:22:00 -
[75]
Trading its easy. Open an account Today!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.09.29 20:15:00 -
[76]
The new 3% savings rate will be effective October 1.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Lucyna
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.09.29 22:36:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The new 3% savings rate will be effective October 1.
I'm lovin it
_________
Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.01 21:52:00 -
[78]
October Interest Rate 3%
This morning, I found a bug in the code that recorded the PAYOUT interest. It's fixed now and PAYOUT interest recorded properly.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Ardaeik Marconea
Caldari
Akimamur Industries
|
Posted - 2010.10.01 22:41:00 -
[79]
Great site and easy to use even for a luddite like me. Another EVE addiction to play around with now
|
Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.01 23:58:00 -
[80]
I just got back on the site after a bit of a break.
I have assets(?) in MRD MEGIF MEXIF ZYDIF, but can't seem to place sell orders, have I missed something?
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
|
|
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.02 01:20:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kaaii
I just got back on the site after a bit of a break.
I have assets(?) in MRD MEGIF MEXIF ZYDIF, but can't seem to place sell orders, have I missed something?
1) Make sure you are on the correct website: http://www.bsacse.webege.com/exchange/index.php
2) You must login (Top menu).
3) You can view your assets under "MY ACCOUNT / BALANCE"
4) To place buy/sell orders you need to visit the stock page under "STOCKS" or "FUNDS". Buy/Sell orders is located in the right menu.
Contact me if you still having problems. Join our in-game channel BSACPUBLIC.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
|
Posted - 2010.10.02 09:29:00 -
[82]
Cash Reserve
This IPO/Bond receives a A credit rating. This investment is/has Upper medium grade and is Investment Grade.
A brief introduction of the credit rating system used for this rating can be found here IPOs/Bonds: Analysis and introduction to Credit Ratings, discussion of credit rating system can be found here Thread. Jita Trade and Research Institute shall not be responsible for any loss arising from any investment based on any recommendation, further disclaimer regarding any recommendations can be found in aforementioned document; including details of conflict of interest practices.
|
Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.02 10:03:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kaaii
I just got back on the site after a bit of a break.
I have assets(?) in MRD MEGIF MEXIF ZYDIF, but can't seem to place sell orders, have I missed something?
1) Make sure you are on the correct website: http://www.bsacse.webege.com/exchange/index.php
2) You must login (Top menu).
3) You can view your assets under "MY ACCOUNT / BALANCE"
4) To place buy/sell orders you need to visit the stock page under "STOCKS" or "FUNDS". Buy/Sell orders is located in the right menu.
Contact me if you still having problems. Join our in-game channel BSACPUBLIC.
Ok I used the link, got to the page, which appeared the same. Nav'd down to my portfolio.
It seems I don't have a right menu any more....
Im running firefox Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.10) Gecko/20100914 Firefox/3.6.10 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
I can send you a screen shot if needed. Is there a missing plugin perhaps?
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.02 15:31:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Kaaii
It seems I don't have a right menu any more....
Im running firefox Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.10) Gecko/20100914 Firefox/3.6.10 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
I can send you a screen shot if needed. Is there a missing plugin perhaps?
I think you are in the stock summary page (right after you click STOCK in the top menu: http://www.bsacse.webege.com/exchange/stocks/index.php ).
You then need to select a stock page from the left menu. That will take you to the stock exchange page (for instance: http://www.bsacse.webege.com/exchange/stocks/index.php?id=ISOIF)
In there you will see the ORDER FORM in the right menu.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.02 15:37:00 -
[85]
Originally by: 49473
Cash Reserve
This IPO/Bond receives a A credit rating. This investment is/has Upper medium grade and is Investment Grade.
Nice!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.02 15:45:00 -
[86]
Yes ;/
I'm sorted now....thanks Block
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 02:19:00 -
[87]
New Listing
Technetium 60 B Bond 6% interest
Ticker: PFBOND
Manager: PinkFish
Link: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1396004
Collateral: 500,000 units Technetium
Bond can be purcahsed directly from PinkFish. Smaller volumes are available at the Exchange. Bond is fully tradable in the Exchange. All discussions regarding the bond should be done on the above thread.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 20:03:00 -
[88]
I'm looking for BMBE and EMFI shares to list in the Exchange.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
herot
Fortunis - Redux
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 16:56:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I'm looking for BMBE and EMFI shares to list in the Exchange.
BMBE still have 285 ôtreasuryö shares listed (since RayÆs buy-back program).
If I have understood correctly, these are still for sale (at NAV), so you could probably buy some straight from Tornsoul.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 02:03:00 -
[90]
Cash Reserve near 50 B mark.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
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Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 02:41:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Cash Reserve near 50 B mark.
I cannot find any information on this product. Other posts have implied that there is a market risk, but nowhere does it says what this fund is invested in. Seems like buying a pig in a poke to me. Does the fund manager have a track record? How much of the 50B represents insiders?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 13:49:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
I cannot find any information on this product. Other posts have implied that there is a market risk, but nowhere does it says what this fund is invested in. Seems like buying a pig in a poke to me. Does the fund manager have a track record? How much of the 50B represents insiders?
Cash Reserve Information
The Cash Reserve is similar to a savings account, currently paying 3% in interests. You can deposit or withdraw without any fees. The only restriction is that, while interest rates are compounded daily, interests are paid at the beginning of the preceding month. Money withdrawn looses its accumulated interest for that month.
I have Poison's API key and I have been tracking his progress. He has consistently achieved well over the required 3% interest. I will continue to monitor the Fund to make certain it remains profitable.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 15:21:00 -
[93]
You have not answered any of my questions. Seems like someone trying to startup a bank would expect a little more scrutiny.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 15:38:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
You have not answered any of my questions.
He answered most of them.
|
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 16:04:00 -
[95]
I find it funny that just as Ray spoke up, I was finding this little blast from the past.
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49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 16:36:00 -
[96]
Originally by: 49473
Cash Reserve
This IPO/Bond receives a A credit rating. This investment is/has Upper medium grade and is Investment Grade.
A brief introduction of the credit rating system used for this rating can be found here IPOs/Bonds: Analysis and introduction to Credit Ratings, discussion of credit rating system can be found here Thread. Jita Trade and Research Institute shall not be responsible for any loss arising from any investment based on any recommendation, further disclaimer regarding any recommendations can be found in aforementioned document; including details of conflict of interest practices.
This investment has received a new credit rating; in light of updated information. The new credit rating can be found here
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 16:55:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
I find it funny that just as Ray spoke up, I was finding this little blast from the past.
Your definition of funny must be different to the rest of ours. It's okay though, clearly you think you're special and insightful and what is life but one big illusion.
|
Poison
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 17:24:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
I find it funny that just as Ray spoke up, I was finding this little blast from the past.
Are you here to ask questions or just attempt to troll?
|
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 20:23:00 -
[99]
In post #67 Block implies that the Cash Reserves has a market risk:
Originally by: Block Ukx
I would like to point out that Poison's BSAC investment will not be used as a collateral to cover any operational loss. So, please don't assume that the ISK is secure in anyways.
Is it so unreasonable to ask what is that market risk? Or, to put it another way, under what conditions would depositors not get their money back?
I pointed out the old post because I thought it only fair to hold you and Block to the same standards you wanted to hold Ebank to. And I thought it was hilarious that Ray chose that moment to come to your defense. Excuse me if you don't like my sense of humor.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 21:54:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
You have not answered any of my questions.
Let me try again to answer your questions. I apologize for not giving you a full response.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
I cannot find any information on this product.
A description of the Cash Reserve can be found in this thread ([37], [39]) and in the Cash Reserve section of our website.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Other posts have implied that there is a market risk, but nowhere does it says what this fund is invested in.
At present, 15% of the funds remain as ISK, the rest of the funds is vested in liquidable assets. The exact nature of the assets will not be revealed. The Fund is exposed mainly to asset value loss due to market volatility. The asset depreciation risk is mitigated by investing in various sectors of the market.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Does the fund manager have a track record?
Poison joined BSAC in January 29, 2007, and it is currently the chairman of the Board of Directors. Part of BSACÆs success is due in part by his valuable contributions. He also successfully audited Proton PowerÆs Luck yourself into Isk. The venture was closed with a positive outcome to investors.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
How much of the 50B represents insiders?
Of the 50 B, about 24.75 B has been invested by the members of the Board of Directors.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Seems like someone trying to startup a bank would expect a little more scrutiny.
The Cash Reserve may look like a Bank, but it isnÆt. It is more like a bond than a bank.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
In post #67 Block implies that the Cash Reserves has a market risk:
Originally by: Block Ukx
I would like to point out that Poison's BSAC investment will not be used as a collateral to cover any operational loss. So, please don't assume that the ISK is secure in anyways.
That statement was intended to highlight that there isnÆt any arrangement to liquidate PoisonÆs assets to recover losses. If the Cash Reserve proves unprofitable due to his losses, then it will either have to reduce interest rates or reduce its size.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Is it so unreasonable to ask what is that market risk?
It is a very good question, but unfortunately there is no way for investors to asses that risk without me disclosing the FundÆs portfolio. The main risk is asset value loss due to price declines in the market.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Or, to put it another way, under what conditions would depositors not get their money back? .
BSAC is committed to do its best to deliver withdraws promptly. However, BSAC has the right to cease an account and hold funds indefinitely if there is probable cause the account has been used illegally.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
I pointed out the old post because I thought it only fair to hold you and Block to the same standards you wanted to hold Ebank.
One thing I learned from that thread was that a major EBANK failure was due to improper record keeping. I have PoisonÆs API key and I do record all his transactions and keep backups of the data. I also make sure the reserve is profitable. So far I have been very impressed with PoisonÆs performance.
DonÆt hesitate to ask questions.
Regards,
Block Ukx
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.10.17 03:54:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
In post #67 Block implies that the Cash Reserves has a market risk:
Originally by: Block Ukx
I would like to point out that Poison's BSAC investment will not be used as a collateral to cover any operational loss. So, please don't assume that the ISK is secure in anyways.
Is it so unreasonable to ask what is that market risk? Or, to put it another way, under what conditions would depositors not get their money back?
I pointed out the old post because I thought it only fair to hold you and Block to the same standards you wanted to hold Ebank to. And I thought it was hilarious that Ray chose that moment to come to your defense. Excuse me if you don't like my sense of humor.
We have nothing aginst Ray at all and figured you just wanted to troll. Hope block has responded to all your questions.
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 08:00:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
And I thought it was hilarious that Ray chose that moment to come to your defense.
It's awesome how you construe pointing out one party's mistake as defending the other.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 23:44:00 -
[103]
As described earlier, the Cash Reserve has a variable interest rate policy. The interest rate for November will remain at 3.00%
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
BSAC MMM
EVE Mineral Reserve
|
Posted - 2010.10.20 20:29:00 -
[104]
New stocks welcome.
Main listing requirements are:
1) IPO plan posted in this forum
2) Positive feedback from MD community
3) CEO approved
BSAC MinMa Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.22 02:10:00 -
[105]
New short term bonds will be starting to appear this month.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 03:34:00 -
[106]
Trying to revive mineral futures. If interested in participating in futures please fill out the form:
Futures Form
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 07:26:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 26/10/2010 07:33:45
Originally by: Block Ukx
Trying to revive mineral futures. If interested in participating in futures please fill out the form:
Futures Form
I am interested but you did not put any isotopes in the sheet and that was the market I was interested in.
Also, minerals are in a perpetual run to lower value, are you going to introduce leverage to deal with it? Otherwise I only see an aborted futures market where everyone want to sell and no one wants to remain with overpriced contracts in his hands.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 22:53:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I am interested but you did not put any isotopes in the sheet and that was the market I was interested in.
Isotopes are a good idea. Perhaps will be added later.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Also, minerals are in a perpetual run to lower value, are you going to introduce leverage to deal with it? Otherwise I only see an aborted futures market where everyone want to sell and no one wants to remain with overpriced contracts in his hands.
Yes, there will be margin requirements to accept a contract.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.10.27 12:04:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Also, minerals are in a perpetual run to lower value, are you going to introduce leverage to deal with it? Otherwise I only see an aborted futures market where everyone want to sell and no one wants to remain with overpriced contracts in his hands.
Yes, there will be margin requirements to accept a contract.
I was asking about leverage (the only way to exploit fluctuations in an otherwise monotonous market) not just about margin.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.27 19:27:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I was asking about leverage (the only way to exploit fluctuations in an otherwise monotonous market) not just about margin.
Leverage is inversly proportional to margin.
In the case of Futures, margin (M) will be the difference between the contract price (C) and the market price (P); M = ABS ( C û P ). Minimum margin will be 1% of contract price.
Leverage (L) is the ratio of the contract price and the margin; L = C /M.
As you can see, maximum leverage will be 100:1.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.10.29 20:46:00 -
[111]
Open an account with the Stock Exchange and invest Today!
BSAC Stock Exchange - The Place to Invest
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.03 20:07:00 -
[112]
October Financial Report
Please post your questions here.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.05 01:07:00 -
[113]
The Cash Reserve (CR) reached its liability limit and will not accept additional deposits until a new limit is approved. ISK deposited in the CR will continue to acumulate interests as usual. ISK can be withdrawn at any time.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.10 02:40:00 -
[114]
We are planning to increase the Cash Reserve liability from 50 B ISK to 100 B ISK.
Please post any questions, concerns, and/or criticisms.
Thanks is advanced.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.11 04:12:00 -
[115]
Expansion will take place in December.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.15 19:36:00 -
[116]
We are still alive!
Zydrine trading higher lately.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.16 02:52:00 -
[117]
BMBE made affordable by the Exchange!
For the first time, purchasing BMBE shares is less expensive due to the 1,000:1 stock split in the Exchange. While a single in-game BMBE share is currently valued at 115 M ISK, registered shares are priced near 115,000 ISK. Best of all, dividends are not affected by the stock split.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.18 04:12:00 -
[118]
BMBE shares instant hit!
The few shares placed for sale sold in less than a day. More shares coming soon.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.19 04:09:00 -
[119]
The Cash Reserve 50B Expansion will take place December 2nd.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.20 17:59:00 -
[120]
More BMBE shares available for sale.
|
|
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LeonessDarkpaw
|
Posted - 2010.11.20 20:22:00 -
[121]
Edited by: LeonessDarkpaw on 20/11/2010 20:22:49
Hello,
Is it possible to reserve isk for the CR before next month?
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.21 01:51:00 -
[122]
Originally by: LeonessDarkpaw
Is it possible to reserve isk for the CR before next month?
Unfortunately no. However, make sure you have an account open and deposit ISK by Dec 1st, so youÆll be ready Dec 2nd.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.24 02:31:00 -
[123]
We plan to list ticker BSAC in the near future.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Tlazolteott
|
Posted - 2010.11.24 02:34:00 -
[124]
Good service.
I've just invested.
I'm impressed so far.
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Tanaka Kharn
|
Posted - 2010.11.26 10:45:00 -
[125]
Having probs with your site ?
Rarely works for me making it unusable for me tbh.
Any news on this?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.27 01:56:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Tanaka Kharn
Edited by: Tanaka Kharn on 26/11/2010 15:45:26
Having probs with your site?
Edit) ah sites working great again. please ignore.
I have no control over the webserver. They claim to be up "99% uptime guarantee".
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Tanaka Kharn
|
Posted - 2010.11.27 23:27:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Tanaka Kharn on 27/11/2010 23:28:13
Yea itÆs been fine since, guess i just hit a bad spot.
Ok wanted to ask a question about poison and some things in general since IÆm interested in dropping some isk into the cash reserve on the 2nd and please forgive any stupid questions this is all new to me as I normally trade etc. with my isk and all these IPOs and bonds are a new beast to me.
Doing my best to learn fast as I can.
- First what eve time will the cash reserve's liability be jumping up to 100 bil.
- Should something happen to poison (hit by a train etc. or runs off with the 100bil) will his investment within the mineral reserve be used to cover his investors in the cash reserve? IÆm not talking operation lossÆs IÆm aware thatÆs just the risk of the investment.
- Will there ever be a buy back of mineral reserve shares or is the only opportunity to get out by selling to other traders?
- Have you and poison ever been audited? Sorry to ask as I said IÆm new to all this.
Again please forgive my stumbling about here on the MD forums.
Also bump
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.28 13:54:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Tanaka Kharn
- First what eve time will the cash reserve's liability be jumping up to 100 bil.
Around 01:00 eve time.
Originally by: Tanaka Kharn
- Should something happen to poison (hit by a train etc. or runs off with the 100bil) will his investment within the mineral reserve be used to cover his investors in the cash reserve? IÆm not talking operation lossÆs IÆm aware thatÆs just the risk of the investment.
The two situations, hit by a train and scam, will have a different effect on BSAC.
If he becomes inactive (hit by a train), he has told me to liquidate assets not related to BSAC that I have access in the corporation and use them to cover the Cash Reserve.
If he scams, depending on the mineral market, there might not be enough assets to cover the Cash Reserve. In addition, his investments with BSAC are not locked down, so he might chose to increase or decrease his investment. Therefore, the level of PoisonÆs collateral held by BSAC is variable rather than fixed. In case Poison scams, I would do my best to return the ISK back to investors as quickly as possible, but nothing in eve is 100% secured.
Originally by: Tanaka Kharn
- Will there ever be a buy back of mineral reserve shares or is the only opportunity to get out by selling to other traders?
Buy back of Reserve shares is guaranteed at 60% NAV (around 60,000 ISK per share). Most shares are traded to other investors. However, BSAC has bought shares off the market when we believe trading prices are too low.
Originally by: Tanaka Kharn
- Have you and poison ever been audited? Sorry to ask as I said IÆm new to all this.
IÆm currently tracking PoisonÆs wallet and journal via the API to ensure that he remains profitable.
I have never been audited by another player, but BSAC CSF assets are locked down in a shell corporation and accessible by several members of the BOD. I do internal audits on my books, or audit user accounts whenever a discrepancy occurs. The BSAC Exchange has its own auditing tool accessible to BSAC BOD and is 100% transparent to the BOD. Exchange fund managers have their own auditing tools. All FundsÆ assets are published monthly. The only thing I donÆt disclosed is the amount of minerals held by the Reserve.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Tanaka Kharn
|
Posted - 2010.11.28 14:02:00 -
[129]
Thx and sent some isk.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.11.29 02:33:00 -
[130]
Deposits processed. New accounts will be issued tomorrow.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:23:00 -
[131]
The Cash Reserve will resume accepting deposits at 01:00 eve time Dec 2nd.
Less then 16 hours away
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Tanaka Kharn
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:30:00 -
[132]
Expectin a rush ?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 21:55:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Tanaka Kharn
Expectin a rush ?
Not a rush, but by the amount of isk idle, I think it will be filled fairly quick.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.02 01:19:00 -
[134]
The Cash Reserve is now accepting deposits.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.02 03:41:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The Cash Reserve is now accepting deposits.
New cash liability reached. Therefore, the Cash Reserve will not be accepting aditional deposits. ISK will continue to earn interests and can be withdraw at any time.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.03 20:18:00 -
[136]
PFBOND closed at 1,123,600.00 ISK.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 01:21:00 -
[137]
Login details sent.
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.12 15:17:00 -
[138]
I was away on travel. I hope to give out those login details tonight. Withdraw requests have been proccessed.
NOTE: Take advantage of the under priced BSAMR shares for sale.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 01:34:00 -
[139]
I was away this weekend. Login details sent.
Cheap BSAMR shares sold out.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.17 02:31:00 -
[140]
Login details sent. Please contact BSAC MMM if you did not recieved your login details.
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 22:10:00 -
[141]
Login details sent.
Schedule Ahead
In preparation for the 2010 annual report, BSAC will close its books on Dec 27, 2010. The monthly report is schedule for publication Dec 28, 2010. Our yearly report will be published Jan 3, 2011. There will be no Exchange accounts created the last week of December.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 23:01:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
Can you explain why you are actively urging people not to invest in my bonds please?
Does the exchange offer any protection or guarantees against bonds or IPOs scamming or defaulting?
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Ave Volta
Perkone
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 23:10:00 -
[143]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Block Ukx
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
Can you explain why you are actively urging people not to invest in my bonds please?
Does the exchange offer any protection or guarantees against bonds or IPOs scamming or defaulting?
I am curious about this as well.
--------------------------------
chown -R us:us /yourbase |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.23 00:06:00 -
[144]
Originally by: RAW23
Can you explain why you are actively urging people not to invest in my bonds please?
Does the exchange offer any protection or guarantees against bonds or IPOs scamming or defaulting?
No, the Exchange does not offer any guarantees against IPOs scamming or defaulting.
However, the Exchange has served as a third party holding collateral against defaults, provided auditing services to some IPOs, prepared financial statements using the data collected via API, and verified the ventureÆs profitability.
The Exchange guarantees the accuracy of bond repayments, share liquidation, dividend payments, and historical information. It also offers a transparent environment for share and bond trading.
And the slogan ôNot in the Exchange, don't invest!ö is meant to encourage shareholders and CEOs to list in the Exchange.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.27 23:57:00 -
[145]
Dividends Issued by various BSAC Funds. Great month for PYEIF and MEXIF returning 17.4% and 15.2%, respectively.
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:36:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The Exchange guarantees
It's a one man operation, right?
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 13:19:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: RAW23
Can you explain why you are actively urging people not to invest in my bonds please?
Does the exchange offer any protection or guarantees against bonds or IPOs scamming or defaulting?
No, the Exchange does not offer any guarantees against IPOs scamming or defaulting.
However, the Exchange has served as a third party holding collateral against defaults, provided auditing services to some IPOs, prepared financial statements using the data collected via API, and verified the ventureÆs profitability.
The Exchange guarantees the accuracy of bond repayments, share liquidation, dividend payments, and historical information. It also offers a transparent environment for share and bond trading.
And the slogan ôNot in the Exchange, don't invest!ö is meant to encourage shareholders and CEOs to list in the Exchange.
Could I ask you to change your slogan please? Given that the exchange provides no security for its listed stocks I don't see any reason to encourage people not to invest in non-listed bonds or IPOs. Content free advertising is fine but advertising with no positive content that directly attacks non-listed bond issuers is not, in my opinion. If you want to encourage people to list their bonds on the exchange then make a positive case for it rather than attempting to create an environment in which investors are scared off from investing in non-listed bonds for no good reason.
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 15:52:00 -
[148]
Originally by: RAW23
Sup?
Not in the Exchange, don't invest! |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 20:12:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Kalrand
It's a one man operation, right?
No
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 22:25:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
It's a one man operation, right?
No
Is your operational structure detailed anywhere?
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|
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.29 00:28:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Kalrand
Is your operational structure detailed anywhere?
Borad of Directors
In addition, Poison is in charge of the Cash Reserve and CSF sales, Annabelle Horiz is in charge of NHIMF, and I do all the mineral trades and website development.
Fund Managers are welcome.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Poison
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.29 00:41:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Poison on 29/12/2010 00:41:59
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
Is your operational structure detailed anywhere?
Borad of Directors
In addition, Poison is in charge of the Cash Reserve and CSF sales, Annabelle Horiz is in charge of NHIMF, and I do all the mineral trades and website development.
Fund Managers are welcome.
In addition you can find prospectus and Reports here
BSAC Info
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 03:49:00 -
[153]
December report published. Annual report scheduled for Jan 3rd. No new accounts till Jan 4.
Not in the Exchange, don't invest! |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:35:00 -
[154]
Cash Reserve Open. 3% Interests in January.
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 02:39:00 -
[155]
BSAC continues to be the leader in the secondary market, and the BSAC Stock Exchange remains the only real-time stock exchange in EVE available to pod pilots. A Cash Reserve was launched in September, which proved to be an instant success. With over 438 billion ISK transacted in the Exchange, trading shares has never been easier.
Read our 2010 Annual Report
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 15:34:00 -
[156]
Grats on the epic year!
Your slogan still sucks though and I wince every time I read it. With me, at least, it has had the opposite of its desired effect. I was gearing myself up to list all my future offerings on the exchange but I'm afraid I won't support a service that advertises itself by making groundless attacks on other businesses and attempts to use its reputation to make life difficult for anyone pursuing a different approach.
Just to emphasise how nonsensical the slogan is, if any investor were swayed by it they would find themselves restricted to investing in only four businesses other than your various in-house stocks (two of the six listings haven't paid out any dividends in over a year, although I thought EMFI's CEO had reappeared some months ago - do you have any procedure for delisting dead stocks?).
An approach that I'm sure would be much more successful would be to simply remind all new bond issuers of your service by advertising it positively in their thread. It's a great service and deserves to be sold on its real merits.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.04 21:12:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Poison on 04/01/2011 21:12:47
Originally by: RAW23
Grats on the epic year!
Your slogan still sucks though and I wince every time I read it. With me, at least, it has had the opposite of its desired effect. I was gearing myself up to list all my future offerings on the exchange but I'm afraid I won't support a service that advertises itself by making groundless attacks on other businesses and attempts to use its reputation to make life difficult for anyone pursuing a different approach.
Just to emphasise how nonsensical the slogan is, if any investor were swayed by it they would find themselves restricted to investing in only four businesses other than your various in-house stocks (two of the six listings haven't paid out any dividends in over a year, although I thought EMFI's CEO had reappeared some months ago - do you have any procedure for delisting dead stocks?).
An approach that I'm sure would be much more successful would be to simply remind all new bond issuers of your service by advertising it positively in their thread. It's a great service and deserves to be sold on its real merits.
We got the point. We are sorry you dont agree with the slogan. If you have any further questions or concerns about the slogan please start your own anti slogan thread.
|
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 21:22:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Poison
Edited by: Poison on 04/01/2011 21:12:47
Originally by: RAW23
Grats on the epic year!
Your slogan still sucks though and I wince every time I read it. With me, at least, it has had the opposite of its desired effect. I was gearing myself up to list all my future offerings on the exchange but I'm afraid I won't support a service that advertises itself by making groundless attacks on other businesses and attempts to use its reputation to make life difficult for anyone pursuing a different approach.
Just to emphasise how nonsensical the slogan is, if any investor were swayed by it they would find themselves restricted to investing in only four businesses other than your various in-house stocks (two of the six listings haven't paid out any dividends in over a year, although I thought EMFI's CEO had reappeared some months ago - do you have any procedure for delisting dead stocks?).
An approach that I'm sure would be much more successful would be to simply remind all new bond issuers of your service by advertising it positively in their thread. It's a great service and deserves to be sold on its real merits.
We got the point. We are sorry you dont agree with the slogan. If you have any further questions or concerns about the slogan please start your own anti slogan thread.
Your dismissive comment really didn't address any of the issues he raised.
And I'll raise another:
Are people able to withdraw shares from your exchange?
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.01.04 21:26:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Poison
We got the point. We are sorry you dont agree with the slogan. If you have any further questions or concerns about the slogan please start your own anti slogan thread.
Since you are using your thread to repeatedly and explicitly tell people not to invest in my businesses (and those of many others) your thread seems the appropriate place to respond. I would suggest that you avoid posting indefensible statements, or at least try to defend your claim that people shouldn't invest in non-listed offerings.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 00:53:00 -
[160]
Originally by: RAW23
Grats on the epic year!
Thanks.
Originally by: RAW23
à I'm afraid I won't support a service that advertises itself by making groundless attacks on other businesses and attempts to use its reputation to make life difficult for anyone pursuing a different approach.
The listing process is very simple and has no cost associated with it. There are no trading fees. However, the information about corporation dividends, shares traded, and number of outstanding shares is made available to the entire eve population via the Exchange. CEOs listing in the Exchange are making a conscious decision of becoming more transparent. Similarly, there is significant transparency with bonds listed in the Exchange.
I like my slogan. It reflects my personal opinion that not listing in the Exchange raises a red-flag.
Originally by: RAW23
Just to emphasise how nonsensical the slogan is, if any investor were swayed by it they would find themselves restricted to investing in only four businesses other than your various in-house stocks (two of the six listings haven't paid out any dividends in over a year, à
Interesting, and how did you noticed that ôtwo of the six listings haven't paid out any dividends in over a yearö?
This kind of information is readily available to anyone in eve via our Exchange. So listing does have its advantages. Avoiding listing in the Exchange is avoiding transparency. I have yet to hear any reasonable reason NOT to list in the Exchange.
Originally by: RAW23
à although I thought EMFI's CEO had reappeared some months ago - do you have any procedure for delisting dead stocks?).
Yes. For instance, TITANS4U was delisted from the Exchange.
Originally by: RAW23
An approach that I'm sure would be much more successful would be to simply remind all new bond issuers of your service by advertising it positively in their thread. It's a great service and deserves to be sold on its real merits.
This ôserviceö is available not only to CEOÆs but to shareholders as well. A shareholder can list a stock if the IPO/BondÆs business plan is posted in this forum with a positive feedback.
Listing in the Exchange does not guarantees against scams or defaults (nothing in eve does), but it does offer a level of transparency regarding dividend payments, share information, IPO/Bond information, and outstanding debts/payments that is not available anywhere else.
Nothing to Hide, List in the Exchange!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
|
Poison
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 00:54:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Poison on 05/01/2011 00:54:39
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Poison
Edited by: Poison on 04/01/2011 21:12:47
We got the point. We are sorry you dont agree with the slogan. If you have any further questions or concerns about the slogan please start your own anti slogan thread.
Your dismissive comment really didn't address any of the issues he raised.
And I'll raise another:
Are people able to withdraw shares from your exchange?
Most of bsac shares that are on the exchange are only traded on the exchange so withdraw is not possible.(AKA Vitural Shares) Only isk is deposited and withdrawn.
As for the slogan I am sorry I thought block was clear, it will remain.
\
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 02:48:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Poison
Edited by: Poison on 05/01/2011 00:54:39
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Poison
Edited by: Poison on 04/01/2011 21:12:47
We got the point. We are sorry you dont agree with the slogan. If you have any further questions or concerns about the slogan please start your own anti slogan thread.
Your dismissive comment really didn't address any of the issues he raised.
And I'll raise another:
Are people able to withdraw shares from your exchange?
Most of bsac shares that are on the exchange are only traded on the exchange so withdraw is not possible.(AKA Vitural Shares) Only isk is deposited and withdrawn.
As for the slogan I am sorry I thought block was clear, it will remain.
\
I understand that your custom funds are not withdrawable, that makes sense.
What I am referring to are the bonds and shares that are issued and managed using the in-game share system, such as CRCH, withdrawable from the exchange?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 03:26:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Kalrand
What I am referring to are the bonds and shares that are issued and managed using the in-game share system, such as CRCH, withdrawable from the exchange?
No. This has been discussed at length previously; only option is CEOs block withdrawals.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 04:29:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Block Ukx
BSAC continues to be the leader in the secondary market, and the BSAC Stock Exchange remains the only real-time stock exchange in EVE available to pod pilots. A Cash Reserve was launched in September, which proved to be an instant success. With over 438 billion ISK transacted in the Exchange, trading shares has never been easier.
Read our 2010 Annual Report
Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
Enjoyed the read, appreciated the graphs; thank you.
My recollection is that at some point you advised that Nocx reserves were dwindling. What were the max and min Nocx holdings over the past year (measured in in units of Nocx, rather than value), and when were those extremes?
Far Ranger [FARR]: Always slogan-free! D'oh! Well, until now, at least.
á
á
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 08:20:00 -
[165]
Quote:
I have yet to hear any reasonable reason NOT to list in the Exchange
I have some considerations about the Exchange. They might be wrong of course.
- I have not found any interoperability facility. WoW had intrinsic internal API to fetch data, EvE got external API, BSAC got?
Without interoperability it's hard to do anything but buy and hold and hope.
- Text only, which could be good enough if the above did not apply.
- Free in everything. This immediately kills any future alternative exchange establishing a de facto monopoly.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 11:27:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
What I am referring to are the bonds and shares that are issued and managed using the in-game share system, such as CRCH, withdrawable from the exchange?
No. This has been discussed at length previously; only option is CEOs block withdrawals.
What procedures do you have in place for the common investor, if they have a loss of confidence in your organization, but not in the underlying funds that they hold?
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RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 11:30:00 -
[167]
Edited by: RAW23 on 05/01/2011 11:32:39
Edited by: RAW23 on 05/01/2011 11:30:25
Originally by: Block Ukx
The listing process is very simple and has no cost associated with it. There are no trading fees. However, the information about corporation dividends, shares traded, and number of outstanding shares is made available to the entire eve population via the Exchange. CEOs listing in the Exchange are making a conscious decision of becoming more transparent. Similarly, there is significant transparency with bonds listed in the Exchange.
I like my slogan. It reflects my personal opinion that not listing in the Exchange raises a red-flag.
This kind of information is readily available to anyone in eve via our Exchange. So listing does have its advantages. Avoiding listing in the Exchange is avoiding transparency. I have yet to hear any reasonable reason NOT to list in the Exchange.
à
Listing in the Exchange does not guarantees against scams or defaults (nothing in eve does), but it does offer a level of transparency regarding dividend payments, share information, IPO/Bond information, and outstanding debts/payments that is not available anywhere else.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I certainly agree that all the things the exchange provides are excellent services and are useful to potential investors. However, it seems to me that these features provide more in the way of an easily accessible information service rather than actually increasing transparency to a significant degree (compared to the transparency provided by audits, for instance, the transparency offered by the exchange would be marginal to my decisions to invest). As an investor the information on the exchange is great because it is consolidated in one place but it is not information that is unavailable elsewhere.
Quote:
Interesting, and how did you noticed that ôtwo of the six listings haven't paid out any dividends in over a yearö?
I already knew that EMFI and Katiana Swan's IPO were not paying out dividends because I follow the forums. This is not to underplay the value of having a one stop shop for checking up on this data though. And nor is it to downplay the primary attraction of the exchange which is precisely to allow for the easy purchase and sale of stakes in companies.
However, just because of the value of the service you provide there are some dangers. Once it becomes the industry standard to list on the exchange, as may well happen, then a great deal of power over the investment market in eve will be concentrated in your hands. If the exchange becomes the standard means for launching publicly funded businesses you will be in a position to deny a listing to offerings and make them non-viable. I would be interested to know whether you have planned any safe-guards looking ahead to the eventuality of the exchange becoming the dominant medium for investment transactions.
Quote:
Originally by: RAW23
à although I thought EMFI's CEO had reappeared some months ago - do you have any procedure for delisting dead stocks?).
Yes. For instance, TITANS4U was delisted from the Exchange.
T4U was a fairly clear cut case as the CEO happily admitted to scamming. But are there any procedures for delisting in the more problematic cases where a CEO simply disappears and stops paying out without liquidating. Katiana went silent after less than a month, iirc, but people are still trading her shares, albeit in token quantities, at more than twice their face value. Isn't there a risk that continuing to list shares like these long after the company has gone silent encourages people to buy in to something with no value? Of course, investors would have no one to blame but themselves and I understand that passing judgement on the death of a silent business is a tricky matter but do you intend to keep these listings up indefinitely?
Quote:
Nothing to Hide, List in the Exchange!
Nice :-)
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2011.01.05 14:31:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Listing in the Exchange does not guarantees against scams or defaults (nothing in eve does), but it does offer a level of transparency regarding dividend payments, share information, IPO/Bond information, and outstanding debts/payments that is not available anywhere else.
I can't find any dividend info for the cash reserve.
Also, I've noticed that the cash reserve has tripled in size since it was started. How does that compare to the size of the secured collateral.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 20:41:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Block Ukx
Listing in the Exchange does not guarantees against scams or defaults (nothing in eve does), but it does offer a level of transparency regarding dividend payments, share information, IPO/Bond information, and outstanding debts/payments that is not available anywhere else.
I can't find any dividend info for the cash reserve.
Also, I've noticed that the cash reserve has tripled in size since it was started. How does that compare to the size of the secured collateral.
If you look on the very first post on this form I think you will find the div info about the CR. December DIV will not change. I will let Block explain again about the collateral.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.06 01:39:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Thoraemond
My recollection is that at some point you advised that Nocx reserves were dwindling. What were the max and min Nocx holdings over the past year (measured in in units of Nocx, rather than value), and when were those extremes?
The Nocxium reserve peaked at 702 Million units by the end of January 2,010. We had our largest stockpile drop in October, with a net change of 274 Million units of Nocxium. Our lowest Reserve stock was in December (amount not to be disclosed at this time). Currently, we are targeting a fix Nocxium level, while we hopefully wait for the price to reach 800 ISK.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
- I have not found any interoperability facility. WoW had intrinsic internal API to fetch data, EvE got external API, BSAC got?
I know you requested such feature sometime ago, and I thought it was a great idea. Currently, BSAC got a few ôprivateö API request functions to fetch xml data. I think you have a clearly good idea of what sort of data you would like to fetch from the Exchange, and I would like to discuss with you the request format for testing.
I think implementing your NEISIN idea would work great for fetching Exchange data.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1441688
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
- Free in everything. This immediately kills any future alternative exchange establishing a de facto monopoly.
I like the ôgoogleö and ôWikipediaö model, and I donÆt think they are ôa de facto monopolyö.
Originally by: Kalrand
What procedures do you have in place for the common investor, if they have a loss of confidence in your organization, but not in the underlying funds that they hold?
As I have mentioned before and have been discussed at length by others (Hexxx comes to mind), registered shares are a key component of a real-time Exchange. Registered shares cannot be withdrawn from the Exchange unless a CEO initiates a block withdrawal.
Investors would need to convince the CEO to execute a block withdrawal. Once the shares leave the Exchange, it is the sole CEO responsibility to return shares to its rightful owners.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.06 01:41:00 -
[171]
Originally by: RAW23
à it seems to me that these features provide more in the way of an easily accessible information service rather than actually increasing transparency à
Transparency is only achieved when the information is easily accessible.
Originally by: RAW23
à to a significant degree (compared to the transparency provided by audits, for instance, the transparency offered by the exchange would be marginal to my decisions to invest).
Typically, audits are done once before the Bond/IPO launches, and do not provide any information regarding continuing dividends, trading volumes, nor earnings per share. I donÆt rely on audits to make my investment decisions. The decision to invest is always a personal one.
Originally by: RAW23
As an investor the information on the exchange is great because it is consolidated in one place but it is not information that is unavailable elsewhere.
Again, I donÆt call it transparency if you have to dig under the rug to find the information you are looking for. And some information is NOT available elsewhere. For instance, earnings per share are only available to the shareholder and not to the entire eve population. Historical information is also hard to find.
Originally by: RAW23
If the exchange becomes the standard means for launching publicly funded businesses you will be in a position to deny a listing to offerings and make them non-viable. I would be interested to know whether you have planned any safe-guards looking ahead to the eventuality of the exchange becoming the dominant medium for investment transactions.
It is not the goal of the exchange to become ôthe standard means for launching publicly funded businessesö. A major requirement for listing in the Exchange is having a positive review of the business plan in the MD forums. Obviously, businesses shut down by the MD forums will not be listed. The power to deny listing in the Exchange will always remain within the MD community.
Originally by: RAW23
But are there any procedures for delisting in the more problematic cases where a CEO simply disappears and stops paying out without liquidating.
The Board of Directors has the power to delist a stock from the Exchange. We rely on the MD forums to decide whether or not to delist a stock.
Originally by: RAW23
Isn't there a risk that continuing to list shares like these long after the company has gone silent encourages people to buy in to something with no value?
Historical information is provided in the Exchange for investors to make their own decisions. Listing in the Exchange does not guarantee against scams or defaults; nothing in eve does.
Originally by: RAW23
à a silent business is a tricky matter but do you intend to keep these listings up indefinitely?
Since delisting has the most effect on shareholders, they can contact any member of the Board of Director and request a stock to be delisted.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.06 01:44:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
I can't find any dividend info for the cash reserve.
Good point. The information is now available in the Cash Reserve page under the Information Desk.
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Also, I've noticed that the cash reserve has tripled in size since it was started. How does that compare to the size of the secured collateral.
There is no ôsecure collateralö. Currently, there is a 100 B maximum liability. Poison is vested 132 B in BSAMR, and his 31 B investment in the Cash Reserve is not taken into account for liability purposes. In addition, 20% is kept liquid to process withdrawals.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.06 10:09:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Block Ukx
As I have mentioned before and have been discussed at length by others (Hexxx comes to mind), registered shares are a key component of a real-time Exchange. Registered shares cannot be withdrawn from the Exchange unless a CEO initiates a block withdrawal.
Investors would need to convince the CEO to execute a block withdrawal. Once the shares leave the Exchange, it is the sole CEO responsibility to return shares to its rightful owners.
If I am correct, anyone can deposit shares, even if they are not the CEO, right? In the case of a CEO who takes a laissez faire attitude towards your exchange, do you have something in place for people who deposit when the CEO isn't involved?
Also, when Titans4U was delisted from your exchange, what happened to the shares you held?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.06 14:30:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Kalrand
If I am correct, anyone can deposit shares, even if they are not the CEO, right?
Yes, anyone can deposit shares in the Exchange as long as the IPO/Bond meets the listing requirements.
Originally by: Kalrand
In the case of a CEO who takes a laissez faire attitude towards your exchange, do you have something in place for people who deposit when the CEO isn't involved?
No.
Originally by: Kalrand
Also, when Titans4U was delisted from your exchange, what happened to the shares you held?
The shares held in trust will remain in the custody of the Exchange. Shareholders will remain the owners of the shares, as is clearly visible in their account balance sheet.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.06 15:35:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
If I am correct, anyone can deposit shares, even if they are not the CEO, right?
Yes, anyone can deposit shares in the Exchange as long as the IPO/Bond meets the listing requirements.
Originally by: Kalrand
In the case of a CEO who takes a laissez faire attitude towards your exchange, do you have something in place for people who deposit when the CEO isn't involved?
No.
So, in essence, you've stolen them at that point.
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kalrand
Also, when Titans4U was delisted from your exchange, what happened to the shares you held?
The shares held in trust will remain in the custody of the Exchange. Shareholders will remain the owners of the shares, as is clearly visible in their account balance sheet.
So not only can they not trade their shares on your exchange (say for collector's value), they can't withdraw them either.
But oh! You've left a notation on your register for them.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.06 16:53:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Kalrand
So, in essence, you've stolen them at that point.
No. This point has been made very clear early on to everyone, and I will repeat it again:
Shares can only be withdrawn by the CEO via block purchases.
Originally by: Kalrand
So not only can they not trade their shares on your exchange (say for collector's value), they can't withdraw them either.
It is worthless to BSAC to hold on to shares that have no intrinsic value. It is impossible to withdraw 10 shares of TITANS4U because of the 1:100 stock-split. If anyone is interested in making a block purchases on de-listed shares they should contact the BOD.
I have always worked with shareholders to meet their expectations and go to great lengths to resolve their issues. Besides, it is worthless for BSAC to hold on to de-listed shares. If you have any issues regarding your investment in the Exchange, then you should contact the BOD.
Not in the Exchange, Don't Invest!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.06 18:21:00 -
[177]
It's in the Exchange?!? You'll Never Get It Out!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.06 22:13:00 -
[178]
Quote:
I think implementing your NEISIN idea would work great for fetching Exchange data
If you so desire, I have a PHP source to both create and check (NE)ISINs.
Quote:
I think you have a clearly good idea of what sort of data you would like to fetch from the Exchange
Yes I do, and I'd hate to waste my unbearably small free time to duplicate your work just to add some things.
If it's possible to work out something we can talk about I'd be glad to detail my ideas.
Quote:
I like the ôgoogleö and ôWikipediaö model, and I donÆt think they are ôa de facto monopolyö.
Google iirc had multiple monopoly charges already.
Wikipedia is structured as a vastly less ambitious (in financial terms) project and has yet to use its dominant position.
Quote:
As I have mentioned before and have been discussed at length by others (Hexxx comes to mind), registered shares are a key component of a real-time Exchange. Registered shares cannot be withdrawn from the Exchange unless a CEO initiates a block withdrawal.
Investors would need to convince the CEO to execute a block withdrawal. Once the shares leave the Exchange, it is the sole CEO responsibility to return shares to its rightful owners.
In the most common case of an IPO, shares should be well defined in the prospectus.
It's rare to see an investee state his shares contract, in RL people can exercise options and shares may be purchased back and destroyed or (commonly) become treasury shares ready for future buyers (or to bypass investors).
Maybe... bah, it's useless to post a difficult blurb here, we should just talk in game about this issue as well, which is also related to the lack of fees and generally of options (in the financial term).
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.07 03:53:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Yes I do, and I'd hate to waste my unbearably small free time to duplicate your work just to add some things.
If it's possible to work out something we can talk about I'd be glad to detail my ideas.
Ok. What is the best eve-time to reach you in-game?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.07 08:01:00 -
[180]
I'll send you an eve mail with details.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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|
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.08 04:05:00 -
[181]
BSAC Stock Exchange moving to a new location Jan 15, 2011.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
KAAII-NET
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Posted - 2011.01.09 09:57:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Block Ukx
BSAC Stock Exchange moving to a new location Jan 15, 2011.
To where?
Also, Block I have a small(?) feature request.....
Would it be possible to have a graph under our accounts for the things like stocks, Funds, etc? A performance tool I guess, with a time line of something like a year or so?
I'm a visual person so, sometimes numbers don't do it for me...
thx!
Kaaii
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.09 10:11:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Not in the Exchange, Don't Invest!
I can't believe you still have this slogan up when Titans4U was registered on your exchange, with absolutely no oversight or auditing on your behalf.
Talk about being pulled over by the weight of your own balls.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.09 21:13:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Kaaii
To where?
We are moving from a free webhost to a paid hosting site. We are doing some final tests before we release the URL.
Originally by: Kaaii
Would it be possible to have a graph under our accounts for the things like stocks, Funds, etc? A performance tool I guess, with a time line of something like a year or so?
Yes, that is something in my list of things to implement. Adding new features is slow because of my limited time to code.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.09 23:07:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Block Ukx
Not in the Exchange, Don't Invest!
I can't believe you still have this slogan up when Titans4U was registered on your exchange, with absolutely no oversight or auditing on your behalf.
Talk about being pulled over by the weight of your own balls.
You may notice that the BSAC staff won't respond to criticism that they have previously dismissed as "discussed". As in, previously dismissed out of hand.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:22:00 -
[186]
Like I said before, the slogan represents my believe that if it is not in the Exchange, donÆt invest.
Nothing to Hide, List in the Exchange!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:23:00 -
[187]
Actually, the more I think of it, the arrogance, relative opacity of operations, and pressure to get people to move capital and assets into their closed system mirrors a pre-Ricdic's (sp?) theft E-Bank fairly well.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:26:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Nothing to Hide, List in the Exchange!
It's in the Exchange?!? You'll Never Get It Out!
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:32:00 -
[189]
To list in the Exchange, all it takes is a positive review in the MD forums and one share (which I pay for) to keep track of dividends and outstanding shares.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.10 04:34:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Block Ukx
To list in the Exchange, all it takes is a positive review in the MD forums and one share (which I pay for) to keep track of dividends and outstanding shares.
You have the ability to do that with whatever investments you're willing to pay for, what I don't understand is why you don't have all recent offerings in your exchange then.
My major criticism with your group is that you restrict share "withdrawals" from the same people you encourage to "deposit" them.
I don't think this is as much a sign of laziness as it is an attempt to keep funds and shares within your closed system, where no one has any idea if there really is anything to back up all of the "account balances".
I predict that you and your group will be the next major MD failure of the megabillion variety.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.10 12:59:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Kalrand on 10/01/2011 12:58:52
wrong thread.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.10 20:09:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Kalrand
à what I don't understand is why you don't have all recent offerings in your exchange then.
BSAC doesnÆt have a share of all recent offerings. In case you missed it; to list in the Exchange, all it takes is a positive review in the MD forums and one share to keep track of dividends and outstanding shares.
Originally by: Kalrand
My major criticism with your group is that you restrict share "withdrawals" from the same people you encourage to "deposit" them.
I don't think this is as much a sign of laziness as it is an attempt to keep funds and shares within your closed system, where no one has any idea if there really is anything to back up all of the "account balances".
The restriction on share withdrawal has been in place since inception, and everyone is aware of it. I understand that you donÆt like it, but this policy was adopted to implement stock splits and to reduce administration load of the real-time stock exchange.
Share balances held in Trust are verifiable via third-party upon BOD approval at your own expense.
Before you continue on you relentless attack of my integrity, I suggest you stop for a moment and consider the viable options for a real-time stock Exchange. When we looked at creating an exchange, we considered the results of previous stock exchanges (EGSE and RESX), the reasons why they went out of business, and the work load associated with share transfers.
To create a practical real-time stock exchange, we addapted two concepts to EVE that we believe made a significant progress in the secondary market. One was share registration, and the second was stock splits. Registered shares are a key innovation towards a fully electronic stock exchange with minimal administration. It also allows for share dividends, fully automated ISK dividends, tradable bonds, and the creation of out-of-game shell corporations. Future projects include the development of share API, futures, and short selling, all which are missing in EVE.
Stock splits, which are almost impossible to do in EVE, and are essential for a healthy stock exchange. You no longer need 100,000,000 ISK to buy one share; you can easily invest with 10,000 ISK. With larger volumes and lower investment minimums you increase trading volume and player participation. In addition, transferring 100 M ISK share is risky and can end up costing the exchange billions.
Before launching the stock exchange, I participated in the previous stock exchanges, and spend hours transferring shares. I understand and know how dangerous and time consuming is to run a stock exchange where shares must be transfer manually. In a few occasions, I made transfers that could have cost me billions, but the investors were kind to return the shares.
The BSAC Stock Exchange offers pod pilots a unique alternative to investing in the only real-time stock exchange. It is an easy to use system where you can trade shares and place your own buy/sell share or bond orders. EVERY ACCOUNT HOLDER IS AWARE THAT SHARES CANNOT BE REMOVED FROM THE EXCHAHGE.
ISK CAN BE WITHDRAWN ANY TIME
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:02:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Before you continue on you relentless attack of my integrity, I suggest you stop for a moment
Let me be absolutely clear:
I believe your have mismanaged the funds currently under your management so that the only way you can stay afloat is to continually add to your assets under management. Be that through your various bonds, shares, "stock exchanges", "mineral reserves" or whatever else you dress up people sending you isk and assets to hold in care for them.
Originally by: Block Ukx
SHARES CANNOT BE REMOVED FROM THE EXCHAHGE.
I believe this validates my slogan:
It's in the Exchange?!? You'll Never Get It Out!
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:30:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Kalrand
Let me be absolutely clear:
I believe your have mismanaged the funds currently under your management so that the only way you can stay afloat is to continually add to your assets under management.
That is an absolutely unfounded accusation that is an obvious attempt to smear my reputation. Your continued attacks show clearly your motive. I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.11 03:46:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Block Ukx
That is an absolutely unfounded accusation that is an obvious attempt to smear my reputation. Your continued attacks show clearly your motive. I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
Your right. There is no way to tell one way or another if your ridiculously opaque, largely two man operation is actually using 700+ Billion in assets in a responsible manner.
Except for the fact that you are always looking for more capital. At your size and your self proclaimed levels of "success" you should be able to generate any needed funds internally.
So prove me wrong.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:47:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Kalrand
Your right. There is no way to tell one way or another if your ridiculously opaque, largely two man operation is actually using 700+ Billion in assets in a responsible manner.
Except for the fact that you are always looking for more capital. At your size and your self proclaimed levels of "success" you should be able to generate any needed funds internally.
So prove me wrong.
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.11 03:56:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Kalrand on 11/01/2011 03:55:52
Originally by: Block Ukx
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
I can't decide which is a more pertinent comparison to this statement:
Originally by: Wizard of Oz
Do not arouse the wrath of the great and powerful Oz.
Originally by: Bernard "Bernie" Madoff
In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules.
edit: formatting
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:57:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Kalrand
Edited by: Kalrand on 11/01/2011 03:55:52
Originally by: Block Ukx
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
I can't decide which is a more pertinent comparison to this statement:
Originally by: Wizard of Oz
Do not arouse the wrath of the great and powerful Oz.
Originally by: Bernard "Bernie" Madoff
In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules.
edit: formatting
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.11 04:16:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
Since you refuse to respond to criticisms of the size and how you are running your organization, I think you may find the public money spigot turning off.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.11 04:23:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
Since you refuse to respond to criticisms of the size and how you are running your organization, I think you may find the public money spigot turning off.
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.11 04:28:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I have no interest in discussing the matter any further with you.
Then consider what I say to not be towards you, but towards anyone who may have money invested in you or your group's products.
And that would be:
Take your money out now, before Block and BSAC decides the charade is too much trouble to keep up.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.11 21:52:00 -
[202]
Quote:
Google iirc had multiple monopoly charges already.
Wikipedia is structured as a vastly less ambitious (in financial terms) project and has yet to use its dominant position.
Quote:
As I have mentioned before and have been discussed at length by others (Hexxx comes to mind), registered shares are a key component of a real-time Exchange. Registered shares cannot be withdrawn from the Exchange unless a CEO initiates a block withdrawal.
Investors would need to convince the CEO to execute a block withdrawal. Once the shares leave the Exchange, it is the sole CEO responsibility to return shares to its rightful owners.
Small comment here...
Monopolies are not a bad thing in EVE. 
Projects Blog |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.01.11 22:06:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Hexxx
If it was me, I would ensure that shares only went one way: into the exchange, never out of it.
This is similar to Ebank and isk, correct?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.01.11 22:15:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Hexxx
If it was me, I would ensure that shares only went one way: into the exchange, never out of it.
This is similar to Ebank and isk, correct?
About as similar to EBANK as you are to an intelligent human being.
Roughly.
Projects Blog |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.01.13 00:47:00 -
[205]
No new accounts will be created between now and Jan 15. There will be a small interruption in service during the switch. Login will be disallowed in the old site while we do the move.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Machete Visor
|
Posted - 2011.01.13 01:18:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Block Ukx
No new accounts will be created between now and Jan 15. There will be a small interruption in service during the switch. Login will be disallowed in the old site while we do the move.
Whee! If there is a crash between the server move and client data is corrupted, damaged or lost... or if the exchange vaporizes and never reappears on a new URL.... that'll be a nice finale.
Quite a rollercoaster ride. I'm glad I didn't decide to put money in the cash reserve... that whole -0- collateral backing a cash reserve... yeah.
Bravo though on achieving what essentially the securities houses on wall street achieved 2004-2008 with the auction rate securities market. Basically you've been able to create a completely isolated market, with you as the broker. So long as you stand in the middle, the market will be there. A very lucrative position economically.
What makes it even MORE lucrative in eve is the lack of rules/laws/regulations, that essentially allows one to dip into the cookie jar. Makes sense, there is no way to pay yourself a 'bonus'.
702B - i gotta go find that last expansion thread.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.13 01:28:00 -
[207]
The data is backed up. After the move, the old ulr will remain available for investors to make sure there hasn't been any issues during the transfer.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Erin Eraser
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Posted - 2011.01.13 01:32:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Nothing to Hide, List in the Exchange!
That was more than a bit snarky. Is this a joke?
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.13 01:48:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Erin Eraser
Originally by: Block Ukx
Nothing to Hide, List in the Exchange!
That was more than a bit snarky. Is this a joke?
Welcome to the party. You might want to take a look at this thread here.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:22:00 -
[210]
The BSAC Stock Exchange will be moving to a new URL tonight.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:31:00 -
[211]
The BSAC Stock Exchange and All BSAC Stocks and Bonds Are Part Of A Ponzi Scheme.
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Marko box
Caldari
SniggWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.01.14 22:30:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Kalrand
The BSAC Stock Exchange and All BSAC Stocks and Bonds Are Part Of A Ponzi Scheme.
Hello just posting to say that you are a disgrace to all the goon trols which inhabit the eve-o forum and the few posts i read from you make my toe nails curl in desperation. Your posts in bsac treads look like a work of a 15 year old who is jelaous at the other kids shiney toy. Pls revisit your posts in such way that its:
A) More trolish but not obvious (so more people will bite)
B) Makes ppl who read it laugh/gigle/rage producing more lols from ppl who rage along the way
C) Produce more drama leading to B)
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.14 22:39:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Marko box
stuff
I don't think Kalrand put it up as a troll, it's just there as a kind of mandatory risk warning for a financially unsound product.
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.15 02:11:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Marko box
stuff
I don't think Kalrand put it up as a troll, it's just there as a kind of mandatory risk warning for a financially unsound product.
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
Maybe if you did your homework you would know why there was a 60% buy back on the shares..
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.15 03:34:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Kalrand on 15/01/2011 03:34:02
Originally by: Poison
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
Maybe if you did your homework you would know why there was a 60% buy back on the shares..
And just how is that different?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.15 03:39:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 15/01/2011 03:40:27
The BSAC Stock Exchange New URL
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2011.01.15 08:18:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Kalrand
The BSAC Stock Exchange and All BSAC Stocks and Bonds Are Part Of A Ponzi Scheme.
I somehow doubt that needed to be reiterated.
If people don't bother to conduct a proper research prior to investing, then it's their fault alone for losing their money.
Black Sun Empire |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.15 12:39:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Machete Visor
Originally by: Block Ukx
No new accounts will be created between now and Jan 15. There will be a small interruption in service during the switch. Login will be disallowed in the old site while we do the move.
Whee! If there is a crash between the server move and client data is corrupted, damaged or lost... or if the exchange vaporizes and never reappears on a new URL.... that'll be a nice finale.
Quite a rollercoaster ride. I'm glad I didn't decide to put money in the cash reserve... that whole -0- collateral backing a cash reserve... yeah.
So how'd that work out?
Projects Blog |
Juda Decartes
Syndicate Holdings
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:29:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Marko box
stuff
I don't think Kalrand put it up as a troll, it's just there as a kind of mandatory risk warning for a financially unsound product.
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
Let me be the first to say I love a good smear campaign and a truly well crafted coup d'Ttat just makes my day. I have yet to see though any actual merit to your, or other accusations against the exchange. My group has complete several successful transaction within the stock exchange, and never have we been subject to any means of farce. With a 3 year standing record of scam free operations why now, at this point has a smear campaign been initialized. Who is behind this endeavor, and why now?
Yet, here I see a select few perpetuating ill intend against a time proven establishment without any real cause whatsoever. My favorite line a few pages back was something to the effect that the new site will never come back online... to be honest the statement made me wonder. You guys are good at what you do, next time you intend to smear a reputable organization though, if I may be so bold, I'd recommend you bring some sort of, any type of, evidence that would show previous scam efforts, or intent to scam efforts.
Don't be so lazy as to try and bring down an organization on forums alone. You could try and infiltrate, collect Intel, make a case etc. etc. Until then though all this ill intent seems to me to be a pretty petty part of some larger unsuccessful smear campaign.
w/e floats your boat though.
Then again, for all I know this was just a publicity stunt, in which case I'd say well done to the puppet masters.
Juda
D.F.C.S. |
Jimmina
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Posted - 2011.01.16 02:19:00 -
[220]
Congrats on the smooth transition to the new site!
I've had a relatively small portfolio since the summer, and done fairly well. I mainly trade the mineral indexes and I really look forward to short selling. I'd be doing a lot of that in about a month or so, but the new cash reserve comes in handy until that option becomes available.
Keep up the good work!
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Dirk Decartes
Syndicate Holdings
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Posted - 2011.01.16 04:23:00 -
[221]
I dislike puppeteers a great deal...
-.-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovVoJw6z1i4
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2011.01.16 04:43:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Marko box
stuff
I don't think Kalrand put it up as a troll, it's just there as a kind of mandatory risk warning for a financially unsound product.
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
The share price is supposed to fluctuate with the value of the business and the overall desire to invest from the public. That "withdraw fee" is a limited buyback offer such that if you are unable to sell your shares to another investor and cannot wait then you have some method of getting out. The design of the system, like in real life, is that when you want to sell you have to do so at the price of the highest buyer.
Once your shares are sold there is no fee to withdraw ISK from the exchange.
This allows Block to operate a business with a fixed capitol investment while allowing the share price to fluctuate accordingly. It is a smart move and to the benefit of all investors. If he offered full immediate buyback then he may have to liquidate investments to cover withdraws; at which point those who are still invested lose out on the value of their return.
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Ave Volta
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
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Posted - 2011.01.16 07:02:00 -
[223]
Originally by: PinkFish
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Marko box
stuff
I don't think Kalrand put it up as a troll, it's just there as a kind of mandatory risk warning for a financially unsound product.
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
The share price is supposed to fluctuate with the value of the business and the overall desire to invest from the public. That "withdraw fee" is a limited buyback offer such that if you are unable to sell your shares to another investor and cannot wait then you have some method of getting out. The design of the system, like in real life, is that when you want to sell you have to do so at the price of the highest buyer.
Once your shares are sold there is no fee to withdraw ISK from the exchange.
This allows Block to operate a business with a fixed capitol investment while allowing the share price to fluctuate accordingly. It is a smart move and to the benefit of all investors. If he offered full immediate buyback then he may have to liquidate investments to cover withdraws; at which point those who are still invested lose out on the value of their return.
Yep.
--------------------------------
chown -R us:us /yourbase |
Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.16 07:40:00 -
[224]
Originally by: PinkFish
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Marko box
stuff
I don't think Kalrand put it up as a troll, it's just there as a kind of mandatory risk warning for a financially unsound product.
It's also factually true - locking in isk through a 40% withdrawl fee is a ponzi no matter what way you look at it.
The share price is supposed to fluctuate with the value of the business and the overall desire to invest from the public. That "withdraw fee" is a limited buyback offer such that if you are unable to sell your shares to another investor and cannot wait then you have some method of getting out. The design of the system, like in real life, is that when you want to sell you have to do so at the price of the highest buyer.
Once your shares are sold there is no fee to withdraw ISK from the exchange.
This allows Block to operate a business with a fixed capitol investment while allowing the share price to fluctuate accordingly. It is a smart move and to the benefit of all investors. If he offered full immediate buyback then he may have to liquidate investments to cover withdraws; at which point those who are still invested lose out on the value of their return.
Yes this is why. This was meant to be a long term investment and block didnt want to have to worry about having to go liquid very fast as this would create a negitive return. BSACAMR has always been set up for a long term investment.. the 60,000 buy back was to be used in an emergency. BSAC is a stock though so offering a 60,000 buy back is unheard off. You dont see IBM offering a type of buyback...
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2011.01.16 08:51:00 -
[225]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 16/01/2011 08:51:20
Originally by: Hexxx
So how'd that work out?
Considering that we've exercised due diligence and performed an audit (we did, didn't we?), I'd regard this fortuitous turn of events as a confirmation of the sheer awesomeness of Hexxx's tarot skills.
Black Sun Empire |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.16 13:38:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 16/01/2011 13:40:30
To clarify,
The 60% guaranteed buy-back only applies to BSAMR and BSAMT. This means you get 60% at anytime. However, remember investors have been getting share distributions and ISK dividends since inception.
MRD and Mineral Indices are 100% liquid - you get 100% of its current price.
BSAC CSF has no buy back. However, I have been buying them back at IPO price.
There is no withdrawal fee in any of the funds.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.16 14:30:00 -
[227]
Originally by: PinkFish
The share price is supposed to fluctuate with the value of the business
The problem here is that investors have no idea what the actual business is worth. Even the Board of Directors are prohibited from checking how much the business is worth.
So how are investors supposed to value their investment?
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.16 17:23:00 -
[228]
My two isk...
Anyone who has ever used the player donation option ingame for an investment knows (or at least should) that they might never see that money again. Is it possible that at some point anyone could decide to walk with whatever public money they have? Of course. Does this apply to Block (again yes), but lets look at some facts here.
The business has been operating strong for several years, not months, for which I think Block should be congratulated and celebrated for, not torn down. It is always possible something fishy is going on in any business (RL or ingame), but without evidence illustrating this (people trolling doesn't count), I think he's earned the right for some benefit of the doubt. He's made his shareholders a lot of isk, and as such doesn't deserve the crap he's getting here.
He's looking out for the business (and his investor's money) by being protective of how he earns it. Rather than just resort to trolling him, if people are generally concerned about something, let's come up with a reasonable way to find a solution.
I think the people that have concerns about his business should state exactly what would satisfy them, and the BOD could see what could be done to provide this information.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.16 17:38:00 -
[229]
Originally by: CRNA
My two isk...
Anyone who has ever used the player donation option ingame for an investment knows (or at least should) that they might never see that money again. Is it possible that at some point anyone could decide to walk with whatever public money they have? Of course. Does this apply to Block (again yes), but lets look at some facts here.
The business has been operating strong for several years, not months, for which I think Block should be congratulated and celebrated for, not torn down. It is always possible something fishy is going on in any business (RL or ingame), but without evidence illustrating this (people trolling doesn't count), I think he's earned the right for some benefit of the doubt. He's made his shareholders a lot of isk, and as such doesn't deserve the crap he's getting here.
He's looking out for the business (and his investor's money) by being protective of how he earns it. Rather than just resort to trolling him, if people are generally concerned about something, let's come up with a reasonable way to find a solution.
I think the people that have concerns about his business should state exactly what would satisfy them, and the BOD could see what could be done to provide this information.
All of these points have been addressed already by people, if the 'BOD' and shareholders truly wanted to address the concerns they could have done so by now .. The previous business successes does nothing to guarantee the value is still there in the business - why the hefty public funding increases recently? The increases in borrowing that far outstrip the payouts btw, leading many to think of the ponzi scheme. Nobody has 'earned the right for some benefit of the doubt' when in EVE there has not been one single successful major corporation. All these years could just simply mean it's MORE LIKELY that they will now turn to scamming, as they've done the fun part for long enough and now want a quick 'out' ? There's no trolling in this thread, just people poking holes in a flimsy business that when it came down to it closed the doors to public scrutiny.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.16 18:06:00 -
[230]
CRNA - The three things I've asked for are:
1. To know how much public money BSAC holds. This is not a difficult figure to provide but for some reason Block is unwilling to give it. He simply repeats 704bil which is emphatically NOT the amount of public isk invested as it includes his own stake and that of Poison. He is asking people to trust him with more isk when he is unwilling to lay out how much isk he has been trusted with in the past, preferring instead to give a figure he knows is not correct and that inflates the real figure considerably.
2. Independent verification that sufficient assets exist to cover the public investments. This should be easy to do without revealing any vital info about the mineral reserve once 1. has been answered. If we know that the directors own half the reserve then they will only have to show the half that corresponds to the public stake to an independent auditor. Thus they will be able to conceal the sensitive data such as what proportions of each mineral make up the total reserve. Unfortunately, however, whilst Block at first said that the whole business was open to audit except the mineral reserve, Poison has since added that whilst a limited audit of the mineral reserve might be possible, the 150bil cash reserve will now be off limits instead. However, even this might not be a problem if they give a real answer to question 1 as they need only show total assets matching total public (i.e. non director) liabilities.
3. I have asked who within the organisation has access to how much isk. This question is important since Block has stated that he will not compensate investors for scams by other directors who have access to investor isk. However, he has refused to provide this information. I have no idea why or in what way this could be considered sensitive.
All these bits of data can be supplied very easily and without harming the business.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2011.01.16 18:43:00 -
[231]
Originally by: RAW23
CRNA - The three things I've asked for are:
1. To know how much public money BSAC holds. This is not a difficult figure to provide but for some reason Block is unwilling to give it. He simply repeats 704bil which is emphatically NOT the amount of public isk invested as it includes his own stake and that of Poison. He is asking people to trust him with more isk when he is unwilling to lay out how much isk he has been trusted with in the past, preferring instead to give a figure he knows is not correct and that inflates the real figure considerably.
2. Independent verification that sufficient assets exist to cover the public investments. This should be easy to do without revealing any vital info about the mineral reserve once 1. has been answered. If we know that the directors own half the reserve then they will only have to show the half that corresponds to the public stake to an independent auditor. Thus they will be able to conceal the sensitive data such as what proportions of each mineral make up the total reserve. Unfortunately, however, whilst Block at first said that the whole business was open to audit except the mineral reserve, Poison has since added that whilst a limited audit of the mineral reserve might be possible, the 150bil cash reserve will now be off limits instead. However, even this might not be a problem if they give a real answer to question 1 as they need only show total assets matching total public (i.e. non director) liabilities.
3. I have asked who within the organisation has access to how much isk. This question is important since Block has stated that he will not compensate investors for scams by other directors who have access to investor isk. However, he has refused to provide this information. I have no idea why or in what way this could be considered sensitive.
All these bits of data can be supplied very easily and without harming the business.
The problem is that before you even came along Block Ukx had laid out what his terms were for audits. You voiced your concern, which is fine, but he repeated his stance that he is not allowing audits of the actual mineral reserve. HE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THIS. There is no public charter that requires him to do otherwise. The BOD is not in here demanding an audit. About a page ago you should have realized this was an 'agree to disagree' scenario and simply decided not to invest.
I don't know why you have the preconception that the BOD is supposed to hold assets. It has been my experience that the BOD is just a group that makes decisions about direction and executive staffing. Managing assets is the job of the staff. Since corporations are held by CEOs and not directors, BOD in EVE should be taken as executive advisor.
If you are serious about convincing BSAC to make more information public or to allow more information to be audited (at your expense), then you should be directly approaching Block and the directors to make your case, not flaming them publicly. Try to act like a responsible businessman, not like a 60 minutes "news" reporter.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.16 18:47:00 -
[232]
Originally by: PinkFish
The BOD is not in here demanding an audit.
They are asking for more money to enter into this closed system, so they should expect public questions.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.16 19:22:00 -
[233]
Originally by: PinkFish
The problem is that before you even came along Block Ukx had laid out what his terms were for audits. You voiced your concern, which is fine, but he repeated his stance that he is not allowing audits of the actual mineral reserve. HE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THIS. There is no public charter that requires him to do otherwise. The BOD is not in here demanding an audit. About a page ago you should have realized this was an 'agree to disagree' scenario and simply decided not to invest.
It doesn't matter what Block said initially. He is looking to raise MORE funds û another 50bil on top of the 150bil he has raised in the last four months. That he said two years ago, before he raised an additional large sum of money, that he wouldn't have an audit is not a real reason to not challenge him on the issue now. The last word on the audit, btw, was that the reserve could have a limited audit but the cash reserve was now out of bounds û was that arrangement in the charter? Situations change and so must responses to those situations.
Quote:
I don't know why you have the preconception that the BOD is supposed to hold assets. It has been my experience that the BOD is just a group that makes decisions about direction and executive staffing. Managing assets is the job of the staff. Since corporations are held by CEOs and not directors, BOD in EVE should be taken as executive advisor.
I don't have a preconception of any type on this issue. I am responding to Block's explicit statement that directors do, at various times, have access to assets. I would have absolutely no problem if Block said what you have just said but he did not. He made it clear that directors do potentially have access to assets and that investors would not be compensated if directors stole any of those assets. It is perfectly reasonable to enquire about how much exposure there is on this front and about who exactly investors are trusting their isk to.
Quote:
If you are serious about convincing BSAC to make more information public or to allow more information to be audited (at your expense), then you should be directly approaching Block and the directors to make your case, not flaming them publicly. Try to act like a responsible businessman, not like a 60 minutes "news" reporter.
Why should I respond to a public request for public funds privately? I hate the idea of an old boy's network where the public can screw themselves and deals are done behind closed doors. A lack of public scrutiny has contributed to the failure of pretty much EVERY SINGLE business on MD the size of BSAC. I do not think a good case can be made for anything other than the most minute examination of businesses that hold hundreds of billions and ask for hundreds of billions more. The idea that this should be done away from the public gaze is one that is consistently rejected when small offerings ask not to answer questions in the thread but to address them personally ingame. Why should big, risky offerings get specially lax treatment?
I have made my case and asked questions. Block has evaded some questions, flat out refused to answer others and been dishonest in his responses to some. He has accused me variously of a) trying to get an audit done so I can know what's in his reserve and profit from it (without explaining how I would get this information); b) attempting to destroy BSAC when the questions I have asked are no different to those asked of 1bil offerings; and c) of somehow masterminding a large-scale attack on him by numerous people.
Audit aside, don't you think that he should at least make clear how much public isk he holds? So far I've had no luck getting even this bit of info out of him.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2011.01.16 20:12:00 -
[234]
Originally by: RAW23
I don't have a preconception of any type on this issue. I am responding to Block's explicit statement that directors do, at various times, have access to assets. I would have absolutely no problem if Block said what you have just said but he did not. He made it clear that directors do potentially have access to assets and that investors would not be compensated if directors stole any of those assets. It is perfectly reasonable to enquire about how much exposure there is on this front and about who exactly investors are trusting their isk to.
You are asking what assets directors hold, not what assets they have access to. Access is what lets investors recover if the CEO goes missing. Holding involves some sort of partnership. Quote:
Why should I respond to a public request for public funds privately? I hate the idea of an old boy's network where the public can screw themselves and deals are done behind closed doors. A lack of public scrutiny has contributed to the failure of pretty much EVERY SINGLE business on MD the size of BSAC. I do not think a good case can be made for anything other than the most minute examination of businesses that hold hundreds of billions and ask for hundreds of billions more. The idea that this should be done away from the public gaze is one that is consistently rejected when small offerings ask not to answer questions in the thread but to address them personally ingame. Why should big, risky offerings get specially lax treatment?
You've moved past the point of questioning. What you're doing now is hounding Block because you don't like the answer he gave you. You've made your point three or four times. It no longer seems like you are trying to persuade Block Ukx to allow an audit but rather you are taking the roll of pit-bull to attract public attention. Block is reasonable if you talk to him, and you may have been able to convince him if you approached him civilly. You are creating this drama and attempting to assign blame for it to BSAC, but it is clear that you (and the goon) are the only dissatisfied parties. Quote:
I have made my case and asked questions. Block has evaded some questions, flat out refused to answer others and been dishonest in his responses to some. He has accused me variously of a) trying to get an audit done so I can know what's in his reserve and profit from it (without explaining how I would get this information); b) attempting to destroy BSAC when the questions I have asked are no different to those asked of 1bil offerings; and c) of somehow masterminding a large-scale attack on him by numerous people.
Audit aside, don't you think that he should at least make clear how much public isk he holds? So far I've had no luck getting even this bit of info out of him.
You approach him with hostility and attempt to round up public support (mob) for your witch hunt. Then you wonder why he is uncooperative with you.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.16 20:37:00 -
[235]
Edited by: RAW23 on 16/01/2011 20:37:39
Originally by: PinkFish
You are asking what assets directors hold, not what assets they have access to. Access is what lets investors recover if the CEO goes missing. Holding involves some sort of partnership.
Access implies investor risk. I don't see why the question of who has it should be secret. Please explain.
Quote:
You've moved past the point of questioning. What you're doing now is hounding Block because you don't like the answer he gave you. You've made your point three or four times. It no longer seems like you are trying to persuade Block Ukx to allow an audit but rather you are taking the roll of pit-bull to attract public attention. Block is reasonable if you talk to him, and you may have been able to convince him if you approached him civilly. You are creating this drama and attempting to assign blame for it to BSAC, but it is clear that you (and the goon) are the only dissatisfied parties.
I have to admit I'm sick of the sound of my own voice on this, which is why I have refrained from continuing to post except in response to those who tell me that I shouldn't be posting or in response to new information.
Quote:
You approach him with hostility and attempt to round up public support (mob) for your witch hunt. Then you wonder why he is uncooperative with you.
That is complete crap. Read the thread and please indicate to me where I approach Block with hostility. I suggest you also pay attention to his failures to answer legitimate questions and his deceitful responses, particularly the question about director stakes in the business on the very first page. But I suppose it's ok for Block to give inaccurate answers to direct questions is it? As I asked you before, don't you think that the question of how much public money he holds is pretty much the most basic one that could be asked?
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.16 23:03:00 -
[236]
For what it's worth, Block's responses to RAW23 and Kalrand's probing convinced me they were right far, far more than anything they themselves said.
This is, imho, PR nightmare mode for BSAC, and without an audit done by a third party, I see no hope of resolving it for (new) investors.
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AnakieNine
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Posted - 2011.01.17 04:54:00 -
[237]
Edited by: AnakieNine on 17/01/2011 04:58:58
With most 100b+ public offering all being scams I think players have earn't the right to discloser over the person running it. If the person involved in running the scheme doesn't want to provide information to even a few auditing MD then MD in general should do everything they can to prevent future investment in any fund/bond/project etc.
Private investment and public investment should not be included together. It is either a private or a public scheme not both. Don't rig the math by mixing your numbers to prop things up. It is too easy to both hide stuff and profit personally. After all I'll invest "my isk" in noc as its going up, while your isk sadly was invested in pyrite that went down. In games like this you don't have a regulator so your always going to get the owners of large funds using their own isk first in order to personally gain the most before working the fund. still best to keep the private stuff out of it.
I hope brock resolves his issues however seems concerning atm to me.
As for why the question now. Well its probably the size of the fund 500b+ and the lack of questions in the past. I'm sure I remember Block telling me the fund was about 400b not long ago. I'll do a search and either confirm this or removed it shortly.
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Clementina
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:47:00 -
[238]
I guess I must say something about the BSAC Stock exchange, and about operations like this in general.
On The BSAC Stock Exchange
A share on the BSAC stock exchange is not the same thing as a real Eve corporation share. They are not the same because they have different risk profiles. A BSAC stock exchange share should be thought of as a derivative against the underlying real share.
The risks of a real share are; That the underlying business will collapse, and that The owners or the people who they have hired will steal the underlying isk, plus user error risk (mistrading shares to a person who won't give them back)
The risks of a share traded in the BSAC Stock Exchange are the same as the risks of a real share, plus the risk that Block Ukx or Poision will steal the shares or isk underlying the shares on the BSAC Exchange, minus the user error risk.
The liquidity is supposedly better on the BSAC Stock exchange, that would also alter the difference in price between the real share and the BSAC share.
Because the risk profiles of these two investments are different, there should be a difference in the price of these investments.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
On Investments Which Require the person Operating the Investment to go Into a Wallet, Type Someone's Name, and Send Isk.
Investments which require the person running the investment to go into their wallet (Or an alt's wallet, or a corporate wallet), Actually type your name, and hit the send isk button have what I will call 'Trolling' risk. Trolling risk is the perceived risk that the person running the investment will continue to give isk to other people, but deny you isk because you have displeased them. If investors think there is trolling risk, they will become timid about questioning the management of the investment. If you are going to put money into investments of this type, one needs to put money only into people who appear to be resistant to the types of trolls and flame present on the Market Discussion's forum at the very least.
Regular stocks, which require the person running the investment to type a pile of isk and hit the cut dividends button do not have this risk, such an investment cannot deny isk to one person without denying isk to all people. Also, if the person running the investment is different than the person cutting the isk, then there is less trolling risk.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
On Investments Which have a Website where Isk is Tabulated, but not Paid Out Unless the Investors Request It.
These websites have done good things for the Market Discussions community. However, it must be acknowledged that these websites also can become tools to extend an embezzlement for a long period of time. Basically, crediting an investor's account doesn't cost anything, and can be done if there is actual isk to do so or not. An investor can be 'given' money promised without the person running the investment needing to earn money. The Bezzle grows. Days of reckoning can be put off into the future as long as enough confidence exists in the investment for everyone to not demand their isk at once.
There are of course even more direct ways to steal if you control such a website. One can be simply 'given' isk as easily as modifying a database table.
In the future technology as well as businesses will also have to be audited, which interestingly enough is the situation which developed with real life auditing, for real life accounting firms.
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.19 04:13:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Caldariftw123
All of these points have been addressed already by people, if the 'BOD' and shareholders truly wanted to address the concerns they could have done so by now .. The previous business successes does nothing to guarantee the value is still there in the business - why the hefty public funding increases recently? The increases in borrowing that far outstrip the payouts btw, leading many to think of the ponzi scheme. Nobody has 'earned the right for some benefit of the doubt' when in EVE there has not been one single successful major corporation. All these years could just simply mean it's MORE LIKELY that they will now turn to scamming, as they've done the fun part for long enough and now want a quick 'out' ? There's no trolling in this thread, just people poking holes in a flimsy business that when it came down to it closed the doors to public scrutiny.
I respectfully disagree with a lot of the things said here. I do think previous business successes have some weight in future value. His reasons for increased funding could be for fishy reasons, but could also be for regular business expansion, I don't think this in and of itself is suspect (just more data to consider). I'd hope that borrowing outstrips payouts, otherwise wouldn't really be a business, right :) ?
In my opinion he has earned the right (as I said in my post), not sure what you mean by one single successful major corporation, I can think of several. Saying that because something has gone one way is now more likely to reverse I believe is called gambler's fallacy, or at least similar to it, but I do see your point on that one. I don't think that risk is any different than any other large scale investment though. Considering the website moved and was updated, I think if he has going to run in the short term most likely wouldn't have gone to the trouble.
It seems that the PR needs to be sorted out for the corporation, but I don't think its fair to call any of the BSAC related businesses flimsy. Raw did mention what would satisfy him, seems like the next logical step would be to see how much of that could be satisfied, if any.
At least now we have helped define the 'problem' in what data is requested, would just need to work to see if a 'solution' can be generated. In the end though, any investment involves risks, so people should act accordingly. If people aren't interested in investing, after making your point and exhausting any possible solutions, all you really should do is move on...
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.19 12:44:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 19/01/2011 12:45:38
Originally by: CRNA
Originally by: Caldariftw123
All of these points have been addressed already by people, if the 'BOD' and shareholders truly wanted to address the concerns they could have done so by now .. The previous business successes does nothing to guarantee the value is still there in the business - why the hefty public funding increases recently? The increases in borrowing that far outstrip the payouts btw, leading many to think of the ponzi scheme. Nobody has 'earned the right for some benefit of the doubt' when in EVE there has not been one single successful major corporation. All these years could just simply mean it's MORE LIKELY that they will now turn to scamming, as they've done the fun part for long enough and now want a quick 'out' ? There's no trolling in this thread, just people poking holes in a flimsy business that when it came down to it closed the doors to public scrutiny.
I respectfully disagree with a lot of the things said here. I do think previous business successes have some weight in future value. His reasons for increased funding could be for fishy reasons, but could also be for regular business expansion, I don't think this in and of itself is suspect (just more data to consider). I'd hope that borrowing outstrips payouts, otherwise wouldn't really be a business, right :) ?
In my opinion he has earned the right (as I said in my post), not sure what you mean by one single successful major corporation, I can think of several. Saying that because something has gone one way is now more likely to reverse I believe is called gambler's fallacy, or at least similar to it, but I do see your point on that one. I don't think that risk is any different than any other large scale investment though. Considering the website moved and was updated, I think if he has going to run in the short term most likely wouldn't have gone to the trouble.
The point about the successful business not having any weight is DUE to the public borrowing. When an eve corp constantly seeks more public investment than it has paid out in that time in dividends it very quickly starts to look like a ponzi scheme, and with no proof otherwise, and with this being EVE and all, you'd be stupid to keep filing money away into it just crossing your fingers hoping "this time it WONT be a ponzi!" despite the fact that when was the last time this scenario cropped up and it did NOT turn into some sort of scam? Name any major MD investment of this magnitude that has not blown up in the investors faces? Even the 'they didn't technically scam' lot like Ji Sama have yet to pay back their investors (where is that guy, seriously?)
For all the herpderp about "not in the exchange, don't invest!" due to the exchange having more transparency, etc., when it came down to answering questions about their own business .. well you see what happened in this thread. They decided to make personal attacks against the people asking the questions and made all sorts of accusations, and have made it quite clear they will not be showing whether the CLAIMED assets are still there. Having a spreadsheet saying "we made X amount today! dividends paid!" when those dividends could EASILY be covered and then some by the public expansions, well how do you know they haven't spent all the rest of the money on officer fit vindicators and gone to town in lowsec with it for lols? You don't. That is the point of all the comments made in this thread. Nobody knows, not even the so-called BOD.
As for 'moving on' well if we did that in every iffy-looking investment in MD then it'd give scammers are much easier time, all they'd have to do is ignore people a little bit hten carry on on page 3 and hope nobody reads the questions on page 1 and 2 :) That happens more than you think and is a key reason why people do NOT leave investments alone until satisfactory answers are given or it is run into the ground :P you come here seeking 'public isk' well .. welcome to the public.
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:48:00 -
[241]
Caldari -
I understand your point, and I do wish that the issues here would be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. My point is more that just because other people have scammed isn't evidence that another person will. I also think guilty until proven innocent might help protect your isk, but I think the way some things are being said on here (not specifically referring to you) are a bit out of line.
I think there is a line between "I don't like the recent issues, I'm not investing" and "He's definitely a scammer, everyone run!!!!one!". I suppose that is really my point.
In my humble opinion, it is the name-calling and trash talking that probably provoked the reaction from bsac, right or wrong.
Either way, guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do with their isk, but again would be nice to see everyone's questions answered
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.19 15:02:00 -
[242]
Originally by: CRNA
Caldari -
I understand your point, and I do wish that the issues here would be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. My point is more that just because other people have scammed isn't evidence that another person will. I also think guilty until proven innocent might help protect your isk, but I think the way some things are being said on here (not specifically referring to you) are a bit out of line.
I think there is a line between "I don't like the recent issues, I'm not investing" and "He's definitely a scammer, everyone run!!!!one!". I suppose that is really my point.
In my humble opinion, it is the name-calling and trash talking that probably provoked the reaction from bsac, right or wrong.
Either way, guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do with their isk, but again would be nice to see everyone's questions answered
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.19 21:08:00 -
[243]
We added a new feature to the Stock Exchange. Intrinsic price charts for the previous 30 and 90 days have been added to the Mineral Indices, MRD, and BSAMR.
We will be adding stock trade charts soon.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 03:25:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
Caldari -
I understand your point, and I do wish that the issues here would be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. My point is more that just because other people have scammed isn't evidence that another person will. I also think guilty until proven innocent might help protect your isk, but I think the way some things are being said on here (not specifically referring to you) are a bit out of line.
I think there is a line between "I don't like the recent issues, I'm not investing" and "He's definitely a scammer, everyone run!!!!one!". I suppose that is really my point.
In my humble opinion, it is the name-calling and trash talking that probably provoked the reaction from bsac, right or wrong.
Either way, guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do with their isk, but again would be nice to see everyone's questions answered
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
Are you not happy because my text isn't big and colored red, because we all know that makes what you say true and important.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 04:28:00 -
[245]
Originally by: CRNA
Originally by: Kalrand
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
Are you not happy because my text isn't big and colored red, because we all know that makes what you say true and important.
Obviously you're well informed about the criticisms against BSAC, and feel that they aren't germane. That really would make you an idea investor.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 04:35:00 -
[246]
Automatic Deposit coming soon!
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 05:22:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
Originally by: Kalrand
You sound like an ideal candidate to invest in BSAC securities.
Are you not happy because my text isn't big and colored red, because we all know that makes what you say true and important.
Obviously you're well informed about the criticisms against BSAC, and feel that they aren't germane. That really would make you an idea investor.
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 05:57:00 -
[248]
Originally by: CRNA
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
I read it.
The problem with this thread isn't with what I wrote, how I wrote it, anything Raw wrote, or anything else.
It's the fact that in the face of criticism from several people, the only responses from BSAC, when they have come, have been very misdirective at best.
Rigged elections, talking about Boards of Trustees who are really at best business advisers, referring people to large piles of documents to answer basic questions, raising money at an ever greater clip, having various alts post in support, and especially decreasing the amount to be raised when trouble brews, are all the hallmarks of a con.
The fact that you see this as "some things being said on here are a bit out of line" means you missed the very early parts of the discussion where simple, basic questions and criticms were all we are talking about.
Your complete lack of research into this topic with the exception of browsing the last few posts is what makes you the best kind of investor for BSAC.
People didn't start screaming ponzi until Block and Poison started acting like this was a ponzi. A very big ponzi.
If the only thing that would make you believe that this is a con is for the first check to bounce, than just hang out for a while.
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 16:28:00 -
[249]
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 16:29:57
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
I read it.
The problem with this thread isn't with what I wrote, how I wrote it, anything Raw wrote, or anything else.
It's the fact that in the face of criticism from several people, the only responses from BSAC, when they have come, have been very misdirective at best.
Rigged elections, talking about Boards of Trustees who are really at best business advisers, referring people to large piles of documents to answer basic questions, raising money at an ever greater clip, having various alts post in support, and especially decreasing the amount to be raised when trouble brews, are all the hallmarks of a con.
The fact that you see this as "some things being said on here are a bit out of line" means you missed the very early parts of the discussion where simple, basic questions and criticms were all we are talking about.
Your complete lack of research into this topic with the exception of browsing the last few posts is what makes you the best kind of investor for BSAC.
People didn't start screaming ponzi until Block and Poison started acting like this was a ponzi. A very big ponzi.
If the only thing that would make you believe that this is a con is for the first check to bounce, than just hang out for a while.
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you. Just because you think they're acting like its a Ponzi, doesn't make it so. I've never claimed anything either way, besides the fact you're just jumping to conclusions. You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct. Just because BSAC isn't reacting how you feel they should, doesn't automatically make it a scam.
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions. You've decided I haven't read the thread, that this is a Ponzi, and several other things I'm sure.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:07:00 -
[250]
Originally by: CRNA
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you.
Oh I picked up on that.
Originally by: CRNA
you're just jumping to conclusions.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions.
You may write a lot of words, but you sure do repeat yourself a lot.
Look, you're right, I don't have the BSAC super secret records. No one does who isn't already playing with a giant pile of money and asking for even more money.
I still think that this is a ponzi. I'm open to someone showing me that I'm wrong.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:01:00 -
[251]
Originally by: CRNA
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 16:29:57
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I think you need to re-read (or read for the first time) what I actually wrote. I'm more saying I'm not sure either way, and that people shouldn't start screaming its a Ponzi without any evidence...
I read it.
The problem with this thread isn't with what I wrote, how I wrote it, anything Raw wrote, or anything else.
It's the fact that in the face of criticism from several people, the only responses from BSAC, when they have come, have been very misdirective at best.
Rigged elections, talking about Boards of Trustees who are really at best business advisers, referring people to large piles of documents to answer basic questions, raising money at an ever greater clip, having various alts post in support, and especially decreasing the amount to be raised when trouble brews, are all the hallmarks of a con.
The fact that you see this as "some things being said on here are a bit out of line" means you missed the very early parts of the discussion where simple, basic questions and criticms were all we are talking about.
Your complete lack of research into this topic with the exception of browsing the last few posts is what makes you the best kind of investor for BSAC.
People didn't start screaming ponzi until Block and Poison started acting like this was a ponzi. A very big ponzi.
If the only thing that would make you believe that this is a con is for the first check to bounce, than just hang out for a while.
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you. Just because you think they're acting like its a Ponzi, doesn't make it so. I've never claimed anything either way, besides the fact you're just jumping to conclusions. You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct. Just because BSAC isn't reacting how you feel they should, doesn't automatically make it a scam.
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions. You've decided I haven't read the thread, that this is a Ponzi, and several other things I'm sure.
So when an MD offering looks EXACTLY like a ponzi scheme, people are supposed to sit back and not say anything about it, let the offering continue on course, etc., because "you shouldn't jump to conclusions!" ?? Ok, makes sense. Not. Guilty until proven innocent in EVE/MD, that';s the way it HAS to work to help reduce the amount of scams. BSAC at this moment is guilty and are unwilling to prove otherwise. 'Flaming' is a consequence they'll have to deal with :D
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:18:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
The funny part about your response, is you're misunderstanding my post. The people I was talking about as out of line was you.
Oh I picked up on that.
Originally by: CRNA
you're just jumping to conclusions.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to feel with tremendous self importance that just because you think something is a certain way, it must be correct.
Originally by: CRNA
You seem to have a pattern of making assumptions.
You may write a lot of words, but you sure do repeat yourself a lot.
Look, you're right, I don't have the BSAC super secret records. No one does who isn't already playing with a giant pile of money and asking for even more money.
I still think that this is a ponzi. I'm open to someone showing me that I'm wrong.
Jumping to a conclusion, making an assumption, and you being a self-important person who makes statements that aren't backed up by evidence are all three separate things. If you'd like to consider them all the same and I am repeating myself, it is most likely due to the fact you're not the best at reading comprehension.
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:25:00 -
[253]
Originally by: CRNA
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
Lets just focus on this point and stop fighting.
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:26:00 -
[254]
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 19:27:52
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
Lets just focus on this point and stop fighting.
Fair enough, back before there were some things raw brought up, which would be great if a BSAC rep would address...
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:49:00 -
[255]
Originally by: CRNA
Edited by: CRNA on 21/01/2011 19:27:52
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: CRNA
I'd like to see more information provided here as well, that much we can agree.
Lets just focus on this point and stop fighting.
Fair enough, back before there were some things raw brought up, which would be great if a BSAC rep would address...
Cap ships will soon be ready to audit.Then we are going to work on a plan to make minmal audit able with out showing the strategy. Then an auditor will need to be found and paid for by my guess amarr155
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:54:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Poison
Cap ships will soon be ready to audit.Then we are going to work on a plan to make minmal audit able with out showing the strategy. Then an auditor will need to be found and paid for by my guess amarr155
I don't think anyone is questioning that you "have some isk", it's that you've raised 700b so far.
Just because you stuff some cash into a ready made corp you have doesn't mean everything else is all hunky dory.
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Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
KAAII-NET
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:25:00 -
[257]
What a troll...
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:40:00 -
[258]
Please keep this thread on topic. The purpose of this thread is for questions and announcements regarding the BSAC Stock Exchange.
Regarding the controversy,
BSAC has been running for almost Five years, and has been operating within its guidelines. We offer a variety of investment products; some of them are 100% liquid û no other investment in eve offers 100% liquid stocks. We had many zero coupon bonds and ventures successfully ended, and have collaborated with others on their own bonds. We managed the only real-time stock exchange (no trading fees). We publish the ore income table where prices are based on our regional trades. As the leader in the secondary market, we are planning to launch futures and short selling.
I have answered RAW23 questions within the limitations set by our policies and investment strategies. Certain information RAW23 requested cannot be provided without me breaching our privacy policy. While, RAW23 disagree with this policy, he has not labeled BSAC as a scam.
BSAC BOD has ALWAYS had an advisory role. This is not something new like some people may try to make. Although, IÆm the CEO, I have always followed the BODÆs decisions. In addition, the BOD has access to confidential Exchange records but is not at liberty to disclose any account/trade information.
I have no issues with people disagreeing with our policies, because it is useful. The BOD is working on a plan to address some of the concerns raised by the public. However, disagreeing with our policies give people no right to initiate a smearing campaign.
Post after post, Karland has shown that he is attempting to misinform the public. I would suggest researching Karland, and you may understand his obsession with labeling BSAC as ponzi scheme. He has been continuously trolling this thread seeking attention. I have no respect for his opinion and have already informed him that IÆm not interested in discussing anything with him.
Investing is a personal decision. If BSAC is not the right investment for you, then I respect your decision not to invest. You can join our in-game public channel, BSACPUBLIC. IÆm usually online 00:00 û 02:00 evetime.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:47:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Post after post, Karland has shown that he is attempting to misinform the public. I would suggest researching Karland, and you may understand his obsession with labeling BSAC as ponzi scheme. He has been continuously trolling this thread seeking attention. I have no respect for his opinion and have already informed him that IÆm not interested in discussing anything with him.
Please feel free to research me. Also, try to get my name right in the future.
I'd love to know what you think my motivation is.
(Hint: It starts with your own hypocrisy in another thread.)
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:56:00 -
[260]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 21/01/2011 23:05:53
Originally by: Block Ukx
Post after post, Karland has shown that he is attempting to misinform the public.
could you point us to a specific example of deliberate misinformation by Kalrand?
or are you just throwing around the term "misinformation" because some of his considerations do not match with your super-sekrit company records and you don't want to (or cannot) provide any substance to prove him wrong?
I like to think I am pretty well aware of what's going on on this forum and I have no idea what Kalrand's nefarious agenda is supposed to be or what information "researching" Kalrand would yield (and a quick look through his eve-search records don't lead me to believe that I have missed any major thread he posted in).
edit: also, trying to turn RAW23's comments into some sort of endorsement ... 
He probably won't call your venture a scam until you yourself have declared it to be one (as until then there is still room for doubt that it is legit, just bad business practices that are disadvantageous for the investors, a business failure, ...).
As far as I am aware he didn't even call the current EBANK management directly "scammers" despite them withholding customers' ISK for an excessive period of time.
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:22:00 -
[261]
Unbelievable, now I have to prove to you that Kalrand is wrong.
And I wasnÆt aware that trade secrets must be disclosed. Is that your new rule? So if someone doesnÆt tell you how he makes money trading, then he is a scammer till he shows you his trade secrets? Good luck!
If you are in for a serious discussion then you need to do better than that.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:36:00 -
[262]
Once again the misinformation campaign .. not by Kalrand, but by the BSAC 2 :) You may not like what's being posted in your thread, but it's not "trolling" it is perfectly legitimate concerns and questions, that you have repeatedly avoided and dodged. It is in the interest of those in MD that a supposed/alleged company with a public exposure amounting to 700billion isk is not allowed to just sweep under the carpet issues raised by calling the people involved trolls or the like. It's your right, Block, to post in MD with regards to your corp but it's our right to use your PUBLIC forum thread to make sure the message stays on track to the benefit of the public and not your own private concerns (fancy telling people to keep out of your thread when you are using a public forum to profit of just because you dislike valid criticism!) and that track is simple .. This looks from every angle to be a ponzi scheme, and you have thus far been unwilling to prove otherwise. You can write all the spreadsheets you want but they mean nothing without verification.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:43:00 -
[263]
And who is going to verify this information? You? I wouldnÆt trust you with 10 ISK, let alone with the entire operation.
And stop lying about me not answering questions. Start reading.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Molic Blackbird
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Posted - 2011.01.22 00:27:00 -
[264]
Assume an audit is done and proves that the BSAC has 700b ISK. Would that prove that the BSAC is not a ponzi scheme? Not at all. It can prove he has 700b ISK worth of goods. That is it. An audit can not prove nor disprove that the BSAC will scam at some point down the road.
If an audit is done and proves Block's valuation correct, will everyone in this thread that is being critical of the BSAC shut up with the ponzi claims?
I've had many in game conversations with Block over 2-3 years. Based on that and also paying close attention to mineral buy and sell orders I have no doubt the numbers being reported are accurate.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:07:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Assume an audit is done and proves that the BSAC has 700b ISK. Would that prove that the BSAC is not a ponzi scheme? Not at all. It can prove he has 700b ISK worth of goods. That is it. An audit can not prove nor disprove that the BSAC will scam at some point down the road.
If an audit is done and proves Block's valuation correct, will everyone in this thread that is being critical of the BSAC shut up with the ponzi claims?
I've had many in game conversations with Block over 2-3 years. Based on that and also paying close attention to mineral buy and sell orders I have no doubt the numbers being reported are accurate.
And that is exactly what would prove it is not a ponzi scheme, DOH! ;) There is no way an audit will stop him walking away with that 700billion but many of us doubt he even has the 700billion anymore and that is the point - is this a ponzi or not?
His response about "who would I trust? you? not with 10 isk!" goes to show more how unwilling to cooperate he is - he knows damn well there are trusted third parties he could turn to to verify his claims, so he is simply muddying the water with that comment. As for 'stop lying and read' I have read, and so can everyone else read through the 'discussions' that were had .. ;)
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:21:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 01:23:22
You prove my point that you are not reading what itÆs been posted. We are working on the audit, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. First step is to move BSAC CSF to a separate account, which we are doing right now.
Obviously, you have no interest in a serious discussion since you already made up your mind.
EDIT: Would you care to mention the trusted third parties you referring to?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:27:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 22/01/2011 01:27:42
Originally by: Block Ukx
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 01:23:22
You prove my point that you are not reading what itÆs been posted. We are working on the audit, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. First step is to move BSAC CSF to a separate account, which we are doing right now.
Obviously, you have no interest in a serious discussion since you already made up your mind.
EDIT: Would you care to mention the trusted third parties you referring to?
Your audit is only going to be partial and will not prove 700billion isk exists, C/D? :) Exactly .. the ponzi-claim still stands.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:34:00 -
[268]
Keep up your misinformation propaganda, and continue to lie.
You keep repeating the word ponzi, believing that if you keep saying it would become true.
It would be a current asset audit as it has been mention before.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:38:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Keep up your misinformation propaganda, and continue to lie.
You keep repeating the word ponzi, believing that if you keep saying it would become true.
It would be a current asset audit as it has been mention before.
You have said it will show certain parts, not others .. if you are now saying it will be a FULL audit of all your assets, thus proving 700billion isk, then that is fantastic.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:45:00 -
[270]
Let me be very clear as I don't want any more misinterpretations.
It would be a current asset audit, where only total NAV be disclosed, nothing less, nothing more. So it would be his best estimation of the value of the corporation.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:59:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Poison on 22/01/2011 01:59:18
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Block Ukx
Keep up your misinformation propaganda, and continue to lie.
You keep repeating the word ponzi, believing that if you keep saying it would become true.
It would be a current asset audit as it has been mention before.
You have said it will show certain parts, not others .. if you are now saying it will be a FULL audit of all your assets, thus proving 700billion isk, then that is fantastic.
ANd I hope you put your money where your mouth is and help other pay for the audit.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.22 03:57:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Let me be very clear as I don't want any more misinterpretations.
It would be a current asset audit, where only total NAV be disclosed, nothing less, nothing more. So it would be his best estimation of the value of the corporation.
If this accounting is done at arms length, and shows over 700 billion isk, I will withdraw my claim BSAC is a ponzi scheme.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 03:58:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
Let me be very clear as I don't want any more misinterpretations.
It would be a current asset audit, where only total NAV be disclosed, nothing less, nothing more. So it would be his best estimation of the value of the corporation.
If this accounting is done at arms length, and shows over 700 billion isk, I will withdraw my claim BSAC is a ponzi scheme.
So who do you have in mind?
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CRNA
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Posted - 2011.01.22 05:08:00 -
[274]
Looks like we're making some progress here, information is forth coming and the wheels are turning. I'm glad that the corp is working on providing the information. If everything checks out, a few apologies would probably be in order to the BSAC staff in general.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.22 05:17:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Poison
Originally by: Kalrand
If this accounting is done at arms length, and shows over 700 billion isk, I will withdraw my claim BSAC is a ponzi scheme.
So who do you have in mind?
VV, raw, myself, corestwo, chribba, cosmoray.
I'm open to ideas. |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.01.22 06:34:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Poison
Originally by: Kalrand
If this accounting is done at arms length, and shows over 700 billion isk, I will withdraw my claim BSAC is a ponzi scheme.
So who do you have in mind?
VV, raw, myself, corestwo, chribba, cosmoray.
I'm open to ideas.
Per my original request, I want VV (I might be able to slide with Cosmoray as well).
IMO, Kalrand and Raw are too emotionally attached to this issue and Chribba has said before that he doesn't do audits....he does veldspar....in da butt.
Also, I just want you all to know that I'm not on some crusade or any of that other nonsense that others seem to be on. I'd really just like to see an audit conducted on a large organization by an external entity.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.01.22 07:22:00 -
[277]
I can audit, the last audit I did showed just over 700b in assets, so you'll be safe there...
Not in the Exchange, don't invest! |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.22 08:57:00 -
[278]
If it's just a NAV statement it does not take a long time, I could do that in about 1.5 weeks.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 10:02:00 -
[279]
External verification of total NAV would be a great thing and will, I think, put your corporation in a stronger position than it was in before. I would suggest VV for the audit. Certainly not myself. Questions of partiality aside, I can't even get EMMA to install and do my own NAVs by going through the assets tab with a paper, pen and calculator.
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Kilkara
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
KAAII-NET
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Posted - 2011.01.22 11:17:00 -
[280]
Id support any audit, just so mouth-o-goon would stfu............
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.22 11:28:00 -
[281]
Well, colour me cynical but I'm not convinced, not in the slightest. And the attempt to make this into a Kalrand thing when multiple people have raised the same questions as him is just cringeworthy. Responding to your critics by trying to isolate and discredit them will only create a Voltaire or a Cicero.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.01.22 12:42:00 -
[282]
Interesting concept, to say i'm impressed that youve managed to pull off, what looks to be a stable, real time stock exchange in EvE would be an understatement.
That being said, Ive always said about a stock exchange in Eve that two questions need to be answered.
1. What prevents the CEOs from simply pocketing the ISK and running away (IRL this is called embezzling money and will get you thrown in jail w/o another toon to log onto and play) - It seems you've answered this question the only way possible, Nothing prevents it from happening and if you invested in a bad company that's your fault. . . understandable.
2. What are the prices of the stock based on? (I realize all price is based on perception, but there are usually market indicators and third party auditors to give potential shareholders an indication as to the company's strength) - As there is no way that I know of to do a third party audit of a corporation, and you (for obvious reasons) dont want to post all of your assets for the world to see, how do you guys get around this?
Looks great guys I cant wait for the response
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 12:48:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 12:50:09
LE,
IÆm not surprised. So, you support groundless attacks and calling people scammers without a shred of evidence.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.22 13:06:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 22/01/2011 13:07:53
Originally by: Block Ukx
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 12:50:09
LE,
IÆm not surprised. So, you support groundless attacks and calling people scammers without a shred of evidence.
You did, in fact, give inconsistent and misleading information out in public. You did this regarding your balance sheet, regarding the role of your directors, and on the issue of an audit.
If a person bringing a one-billion-isk offering to MD evaded, ignored and mislead as much as you have done then they would be questioned and called a scammer if they failed to respond properly.
And remember - you are the one who coined the slogan "not in the exchange, don't invest". You are the one who claimed to have some mythically high standard of "openness" and "accountability".
And also, you have still not answered a single question that was asked of you or resolved any of the [very basic] issues. So there are no groundless attacks or lack of evidence [except the lack of real information that you have chosen to create]. The fact that you consider all the criticism to be groundless just implicates you even more.
Edit: typo
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 13:15:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 12:50:09
LE,
IÆm not surprised. So, you support groundless attacks and calling people scammers without a shred of evidence.
It is not really the case that the attacks were groundless and had not a shred of evidence to support them, although the evidence certainly fell short of conclusive. The biggest problem / piece of evidence was that you responded to comments in precisely the way that most people would expect someone who was actually running a scam to respond. This does not make it a scam but, when combined with the historical rate of scams and failures in businesses of this size, such answers meant that it was not entirely unreasonable to think the worst (which is not to say that it was entirely reasonable either).
You have to bear in mind the context you are operating in - when the rate of scam and failure is so high people would be fools to give you the benefit of the doubt. Asking you to prove that you are legit and that accusations are not true is not an unreasonable request. Previous scammers and defaulters have created a situation where the raw odds, taken in the absence of other information, are heavily in favour of any large public investment vehicle being a scam. The onus is definitely on you to differentiate yourself from the historical norm, not on the public to assume such a differentiation.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 13:33:00 -
[286]
The accusations were neither groundless, made by just kalrand and nor were they the only side of the argument - you called into question the motives and character of people in this thread like RAW which imo is utterly ridiculous at this point.
A full NAV assessment, as VV has said he will do, would put to bed a lot of this and, for me at least, close the issue of this being a ponzi. Look forward to the results of it!
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 14:05:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 22/01/2011 14:05:49
Well, I disagree.
The accusations are groundless and my responses are not misleading and are within the limits of our privacy policy. LE, you are simply lying to the public about our balance sheets, director roles, and the audit. But again, I donÆt expect anything else from you, but groundless attacks. Where is your evidence?
All you have done is continue this propaganda, and the little respect I had for you is now gone.
And please, stop pretending that you can possibly know if someone is running a scam because IÆm not telling you confidential information.
So, go ahead and keep scream ponzi scam.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Zero Uptick
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Posted - 2011.01.22 14:54:00 -
[288]
bittergoon posts itt
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.22 16:38:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Block Ukx
LE, you are simply lying to the public about our balance sheets, director roles, and the audit. But again, I donÆt expect anything else from you, but groundless attacks.
Why do you keep picking a random critic to blame for these questions, when you could simply be answering them and shutting everyone up.
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Molic Blackbird
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:14:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Molic Blackbird on 22/01/2011 18:19:10
I keep hearing complaints about unanswered questions. Which questions remain unanswered?
Edit-> I have a feeling I can find in these threads where Block has answered any questions that are claimed to be unanswered.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:41:00 -
[291]
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 18:43:36
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 18:42:45
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Edited by: Molic Blackbird on 22/01/2011 18:19:10
I keep hearing complaints about unanswered questions. Which questions remain unanswered?
Edit-> I have a feeling I can find in these threads where Block has answered any questions that are claimed to be unanswered.
Really? Cool ...
Let's start with how much public money BSAC holds. That's a biggie! (edit - this figure cannot include the investments of the directors, esp. Poison and Block)
Edit - May as well throw a second one in: who has access to how much investor isk within the organisation?
Good luck - I think you will need it.
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Molic Blackbird
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Posted - 2011.01.22 19:39:00 -
[292]
Originally by: RAW23
Really? Cool ...
Let's start with how much public money BSAC holds. That's a biggie! (edit - this figure cannot include the investments of the directors, esp. Poison and Block)
From post 31 of the expansion discussion thread:
"I suggest that you use 702.58 B as the largest ISK of total public loss."
From Post 61:
"Investors should base risk on 702 B ISK"
Post 124:
"people should use 700 B ISK for their risk assessment"
Post 187:
"The total public loss in the event of a scam is 702 B. No matter how many times you ask this question the answer is the same; 702 B ISK.
You keep demanding to know how much the BOD has at stake and I already told you BSAC policy is NOT to disclose investorÆs account information."
Quote:
Edit - May as well throw a second one in: who has access to how much investor isk within the organisation?
From Post 31 of the discussion thread:
"Our current security arrangement is not intended to ôlimitö how much access a member of the Board of Directors (BOD) has, but it is based on a ôneed to have accessö. Depending on the level of involvement, some members have great access while others have less access. Some assets are locked down not with the intention of preventing theft by the BOD, but to allow usage by the BOD if the occasion requires it. The assets can be unlocked by me or Poison if needed."
Post 39:
"They need to trust my management skills. And Poison with 80% of the Cash Reserve."
Post 124:
"As the CEO, I allocate assets as I see fit in accordance to our financial goals. Investors need to trust that I will be making the proper management decisions when it comes to asset allocation. They need to trust that I will manage 700 B ISK properly. They need to trust that I will not disclose information that will be potentially harmful to their investment."
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:28:00 -
[293]
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 20:32:15
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 20:30:55
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 20:29:33
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Originally by: RAW23
Really? Cool ...
Let's start with how much public money BSAC holds. That's a biggie! (edit - this figure cannot include the investments of the directors, esp. Poison and Block)
From post 31 of the expansion discussion thread:
"I suggest that you use 702.58 B as the largest ISK of total public loss."
From Post 61:
"Investors should base risk on 702 B ISK"
Post 124:
"people should use 700 B ISK for their risk assessment"
Post 187:
"The total public loss in the event of a scam is 702 B. No matter how many times you ask this question the answer is the same; 702 B ISK.
You keep demanding to know how much the BOD has at stake and I already told you BSAC policy is NOT to disclose investorÆs account information."
Quote:
Edit - May as well throw a second one in: who has access to how much investor isk within the organisation?
From Post 31 of the discussion thread:
"Our current security arrangement is not intended to ôlimitö how much access a member of the Board of Directors (BOD) has, but it is based on a ôneed to have accessö. Depending on the level of involvement, some members have great access while others have less access. Some assets are locked down not with the intention of preventing theft by the BOD, but to allow usage by the BOD if the occasion requires it. The assets can be unlocked by me or Poison if needed."
Post 39:
"They need to trust my management skills. And Poison with 80% of the Cash Reserve."
Post 124:
"As the CEO, I allocate assets as I see fit in accordance to our financial goals. Investors need to trust that I will be making the proper management decisions when it comes to asset allocation. They need to trust that I will manage 700 B ISK properly. They need to trust that I will not disclose information that will be potentially harmful to their investment."
That's not an answer - that is a refusal to answer. The answer to the question of how much public money BSAC holds is not found in any of the posts you quote. Including your OWN isk in a figure for how much you could scam is ridiculous and does not, in any way, answer the question of how much isk belonging to OTHER people you could walk off with.
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:01:00 -
[294]
Very funny. You got your answer; you just donÆt want to accept NO for an answer.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:05:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Poison on 22/01/2011 21:06:17
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 20:32:15
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 20:30:55
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 20:29:33
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Originally by: RAW23
Really? Cool ...
Let's start with how much public money BSAC holds. That's a biggie! (edit - this figure cannot include the investments of the directors, esp. Poison and Block)
From post 31 of the expansion discussion thread:
"I suggest that you use 702.58 B as the largest ISK of total public loss."
From Post 61:
"Investors should base risk on 702 B ISK"
Post 124:
"people should use 700 B ISK for their risk assessment"
Post 187:
"The total public loss in the event of a scam is 702 B. No matter how many times you ask this question the answer is the same; 702 B ISK.
You keep demanding to know how much the BOD has at stake and I already told you BSAC policy is NOT to disclose investorÆs account information."
Quote:
Edit - May as well throw a second one in: who has access to how much investor isk within the organisation?
From Post 31 of the discussion thread:
"Our current security arrangement is not intended to ôlimitö how much access a member of the Board of Directors (BOD) has, but it is based on a ôneed to have accessö. Depending on the level of involvement, some members have great access while others have less access. Some assets are locked down not with the intention of preventing theft by the BOD, but to allow usage by the BOD if the occasion requires it. The assets can be unlocked by me or Poison if needed."
Post 39:
"They need to trust my management skills. And Poison with 80% of the Cash Reserve."
Post 124:
"As the CEO, I allocate assets as I see fit in accordance to our financial goals. Investors need to trust that I will be making the proper management decisions when it comes to asset allocation. They need to trust that I will manage 700 B ISK properly. They need to trust that I will not disclose information that will be potentially harmful to their investment."
That's not an answer - that is a refusal to answer. The answer to the question of how much public money BSAC holds is not found in any of the posts you quote. Including your OWN isk in a figure for how much you could scam is ridiculous and does not, in any way, answer the question of how much isk belonging to OTHER people you could walk off with.
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
How about this Raw23... Its not public record who owns how much in bsac. If investers want to come forward to tell you how much they own, thats fine. all you need to worry about is the total amount invested is 700B isk. That does in fact answer your question.
Stop flaming. When an auditor comes forward and the corp is set up for an audit i cant wait until you eat your own words... But i am sure you will come up with another "Question" that you will say was not answered.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:29:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Very funny. You got your answer; you just donÆt want to accept NO for an answer.
The person I responded to asked what the unanswered questions are. The public liability in BSAC is still an unanswered question. 'NO' is an answer to 'Will you answer my question?' It is not an answer to the question about the liability. Please don't pretend that saying 'I'm not going to answer your question' counts as answering the question. It looks a bit pathetic.
Originally by: Poison
How about this Raw23... Its not public record who owns how much in bsac. If investers want to come forward to tell you how much they own, thats fine. all you need to worry about is the total amount invested is 700B isk. That does in fact answer your question.
Please, this is getting a little sad. It's ridiculous to claim that giving a figure that includes director stakes answers the question of what the figure is without director stakes. You are just embarrassing yourselves now. I gave a range of reasons why it might be relevant if you are inflating the amount of isk that you have been trusted with but none of these concernes were responded to.
Quote:
Stop flaming. When an auditor comes forward and the corp is set up for an audit i cant wait until you eat your own words... But i am sure you will come up with another "Question" that you will say was not answered.
What words, exactly, will I have to eat? I have made no accusations against you except in the sphere of intellectual dishonesty. Please find a single claim I have made that will be disproved by an audit. I haven't made any such claims and I welcome an audit as it is exactly what I encouraged you to get. I'm very glad you are going along with that suggestion, despite your initial response to the suggestion being that I wanted to steal your ideas and making various other bizarre claims about my motivations. Of course, if the auditor does not answer the question (the fact that you put it in 'scare quotes' really says something about the level of discussion here) of BSAC's public liabilities then I will point out that this very basic question remains unanswered.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:54:00 -
[297]
You got an answer regarding liabilities in accordance with our privacy policy. You donÆt like the answer and therefore you are simply ignoring it. The information will not be disclosed no matter if you continue with your attempt at forcing your way into the information. I think I have being very clear and consistent as to what information we chose to disclose.
You keep asking a question about information that will not be disclosed, and then using this fact to turn things around and argue that IÆm not answering your question. I think you have lost your objectivity.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:04:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Block Ukx
You keep asking a question about information that will not be disclosed, and then using this fact to turn things around and argue that IÆm not answering your question. I think you have lost your objectivity.
Do you even understand what you just wrote? REFUSING TO DISCLOSE THE ANSWER IS NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
Claiming that you have answered the question by refusing to answer it and then posting repeatedly that all questions have been answered so there is nothing for investors to be concerned about is simply and straightforwardly dishonest.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:27:00 -
[299]
Do you understand that the information will not be disclosed? Do you understand this was a known fact well before this thread started? Somehow this fact is not getting to you. Now you come here to ask a question you knew well ahead what the answer was going to be. The only numbers I can give you are the ones that have been previously disclosed.
You may fool people around but you are not moving this discussion forward. All you are doing is flaming this thread.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:35:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Do you understand that the information will not be disclosed? Do you understand this was a known fact well before this thread started? Somehow this fact is not getting to you. Now you come here to ask a question you knew well ahead what the answer was going to be. The only numbers I can give you are the ones that have been previously disclosed.
You may fool people around but you are not moving this discussion forward. All you are doing is flaming this thread.
It's really quite obvious to anyone that reads this thread that RAW is not hassling you for an answer, you have made it clear you wont be as transparent as you demand other people are about their own IPOs ("not in the exchange, don't invest!" ring a bell? lol) but he is arguing the fact that you are claiming you have answered, when you have NOT.
What you have done is RESPOND which is not the same as giving an answer - it is misleading to claim you already answered him because anyone reading the latest posts in this will think "Oh he gave the number already so it's all ok" when what you have done is given the vague FULL amount of 700billion, which INCLUDES director liabilities and does NOT ANSWER the question as to what the PUBLIC exposure is. It is misleading and dishonest to repeatedly claim you have properly answered.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:47:00 -
[301]
What I find very dishonest is people coming here to ask a question of a fact that is well known and then pretend they didnÆt know. Our privacy policy is not to disclose account information. This is not something new. Our business is very transparent and if you think any other business out there give a better wealth of information, then go ahead and invest with them. IÆm not going to stop you. Perhaps you could tell people where to invest their money. Show them all those businesses that are so transparent like you claim. So come here and give your opinion. Tell me of all those great places to invest.
As for the slogan, yes I like my slogan. I wasnÆt aware I could not tell people my opinion in my own thread.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:53:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Block Ukx
What I find very dishonest is people coming here to ask a question of a fact that is well known and then pretend they didnÆt know. Our privacy policy is not to disclose account information. This is not something new. Our business is very transparent and if you think any other business out there give a better wealth of information, then go ahead and invest with them. IÆm not going to stop you. Perhaps you could tell people where to invest their money. Show them all those businesses that are so transparent like you claim. So come here and give your opinion. Tell me of all those great places to invest.
As for the slogan, yes I like my slogan. I wasnÆt aware I could not tell people my opinion in my own thread.
a) if you broke the figure down and said "OUR investment amounts to XXX therefore the public amount is YYY" I don't see how that would breach PRIVACY, unless you think your own stake in this company is a privacy issue? As you will not be revealing individual investment amounts, you will merely be clarifying the PUBLIC exposure in this company.
b) All that irrelevant stuff, just because there is not another company doing this and doing it better, does not mean you are doing it great - you are doing it one way, but it could be better
c) Not revealing this information goes very much AGAINST your supposed transparency, as it is a very fundamental aspect to any risk assessment - how much would the public lose if your an off with isk is the very first question infact, and you are outright saying nobody can have access to that information. Claiming "the full 700billion is what people should use" is blatantly incorrect because you cannot steal your own isk if you run off with it, so your own investments do NOT count. Imagine if another MD IPO launched and said "I wont tell you how much isk I get from this, all investments are private" and the crapstorm that would ensure about "this is clearly a scam" - well guess what, you are not privileged, why should you not disclose how much OUTSIDE investors have put in?
d) use the slogan all you want, but it is hypocritical to claim transparency is important for you to invest but you will not give out the same information in return about your own company
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:55:00 -
[303]
You still didn't answer my question.
Tell people where to invest their money. Show them all those businesses that are so transparent like you claim.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:04:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Block Ukx
You still didn't answer my question.
Tell people where to invest their money. Show them all those businesses that are so transparent like you claim.
Flippant and avoiding the valid points made, how could I expect anything else at this point? These discussions started on very simple questioning terms and have devolved completely since then, it is very clear to me now and many others that you are a misleading and deceitful person and anyone reading through the 2 threads will see this for themselves.
Until your total NAV is independently verified and your PUBLIC exposure is clearly stated you look no different to all the other scams/business flops that have occurred in MD before and I see no reason to treat you as otherwise and warn anyone off investing in what is most likely either a failing or a ponzi ship.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:10:00 -
[305]
Go ahead and continue your agenda of labeling BSAC as a ponzi scheme. Somehow you don't find that misleading.
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Claiming "the full 700billion is what people should use" is blatantly incorrect because you cannot steal your own isk if you run off with it, so your own investments do NOT count.
Statements like that show how ignorant you are.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:17:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Go ahead and continue your agenda of labeling BSAC as a ponzi scheme. Somehow you don't find that misleading.
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Claiming "the full 700billion is what people should use" is blatantly incorrect because you cannot steal your own isk if you run off with it, so your own investments do NOT count.
Statements like that show how ignorant you are.
.. so you are trying to tell us that you can steal your own isk? lol
That's laughable. The PUBLIC exposure does not include your own isk, that is pretty simple to comprehend.
Stop making a fool of yourself Block, anyone reading the thread can see the truth of what has happened here, you look either incompetent or worse a liar and continuing is just bad business sense. Answer the fundamental questions, get the audit.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:21:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Block Ukx
Go ahead and continue your agenda of labeling BSAC as a ponzi scheme. Somehow you don't find that misleading.
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Claiming "the full 700billion is what people should use" is blatantly incorrect because you cannot steal your own isk if you run off with it, so your own investments do NOT count.
Statements like that show how ignorant you are.
.. so you are trying to tell us that you can steal your own isk? lol
That's laughable. The PUBLIC exposure does not include your own isk, that is pretty simple to comprehend.
Stop making a fool of yourself Block, anyone reading the thread can see the truth of what has happened here, you look either incompetent or worse a liar and continuing is just bad business sense. Answer the fundamental questions, get the audit.
Yes, you are so smart. Somehow you can prevent me from selling my own stake in BSAC. Hmmà
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:22:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Block Ukx
Go ahead and continue your agenda of labeling BSAC as a ponzi scheme. Somehow you don't find that misleading.
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Claiming "the full 700billion is what people should use" is blatantly incorrect because you cannot steal your own isk if you run off with it, so your own investments do NOT count.
Statements like that show how ignorant you are.
.. so you are trying to tell us that you can steal your own isk? lol
That's laughable. The PUBLIC exposure does not include your own isk, that is pretty simple to comprehend.
Stop making a fool of yourself Block, anyone reading the thread can see the truth of what has happened here, you look either incompetent or worse a liar and continuing is just bad business sense. Answer the fundamental questions, get the audit.
Seems your the fool. You have yet to prove that block is running a ponzi scheme... Other than the fact he wont tell you what he holds or who has invested.
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Molic Blackbird
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:24:00 -
[309]
Originally by: RAW23
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
Is it really that hard to determine who has access to what based on Block's replies? Seems very clear that Block has access to everything as CEO. Poison has access to 80% of the cash reserve and everything in the BSAC capital ship building project. I doubt Poison has access to the mineral reserve as he wouldn't need access. Nor would he have access to anything related to the stock exchange. No one else has access to anything.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:25:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 22/01/2011 23:25:25
Originally by: Poison
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Block Ukx
Go ahead and continue your agenda of labeling BSAC as a ponzi scheme. Somehow you don't find that misleading.
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Claiming "the full 700billion is what people should use" is blatantly incorrect because you cannot steal your own isk if you run off with it, so your own investments do NOT count.
Statements like that show how ignorant you are.
.. so you are trying to tell us that you can steal your own isk? lol
That's laughable. The PUBLIC exposure does not include your own isk, that is pretty simple to comprehend.
Stop making a fool of yourself Block, anyone reading the thread can see the truth of what has happened here, you look either incompetent or worse a liar and continuing is just bad business sense. Answer the fundamental questions, get the audit.
Seems your the fool. You have yet to prove that block is running a ponzi scheme... Other than the fact he wont tell you what he holds or who has invested.
hahahaha ok sure, that's a valid response, I've not proven it's a ponzi, it's just been shown repeatedly that it is utterly impossible to distinguish this from what is a ponzi scam and therefore deserves to be treated as such until YOU prove otherwise. Prove otherwise with a NAV audit and answering the questions, anything else makes you look like fools .. and these childish responses you and block are now coming up with are just making the case even more solid that you simply don't give a **** about your supposed transparency, good business practices, etc. and it's all a charade .. feel free to PROVE otherwise though.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:29:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Originally by: RAW23
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
Is it really that hard to determine who has access to what based on Block's replies? Seems very clear that Block has access to everything as CEO. Poison has access to 80% of the cash reserve and everything in the BSAC capital ship building project. I doubt Poison has access to the mineral reserve as he wouldn't need access. Nor would he have access to anything related to the stock exchange. No one else has access to anything.
You are correct. The mineral reserve is 100% run by block.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:32:00 -
[312]
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/01/2011 23:35:00
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Originally by: RAW23
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
Is it really that hard to determine who has access to what based on Block's replies? Seems very clear that Block has access to everything as CEO. Poison has access to 80% of the cash reserve and everything in the BSAC capital ship building project. I doubt Poison has access to the mineral reserve as he wouldn't need access. Nor would he have access to anything related to the stock exchange. No one else has access to anything.
If that's the case why doesn't he just say that? I would have been perfectly satisfied with that as an answer (if it was changed from your assumptions to a firm statement from Block) and would have shut up on this particular point a long time ago if he said this.
Edit - The response he actually gave to the question was
Quote:
Our current security arrangement is not intended to ôlimitö how much access a member of the Board of Directors (BOD) has, but it is based on a ôneed to have accessö. Depending on the level of involvement, some members have great access while others have less access. Some assets are locked down not with the intention of preventing theft by the BOD, but to allow usage by the BOD if the occasion requires it. The assets can be unlocked by me or Poison if needed.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:36:00 -
[313]
Edited by: Poison on 22/01/2011 23:37:06
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Originally by: RAW23
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
Is it really that hard to determine who has access to what based on Block's replies? Seems very clear that Block has access to everything as CEO. Poison has access to 80% of the cash reserve and everything in the BSAC capital ship building project. I doubt Poison has access to the mineral reserve as he wouldn't need access. Nor would he have access to anything related to the stock exchange. No one else has access to anything.
If that's the case why doesn't he just say that? I would have been perfectly satisfied with that as an answer (if it was changed from your assumptions to a firm statement from Block) and would have shut up on this particular point a long time ago if he said this.
If you read the Prospectus then you would see that block is in fact the one running things.
I am wondering how Molic Blackbird knew this but you didnt figure it out?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:43:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Poison
Edited by: Poison on 22/01/2011 23:37:06
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Molic Blackbird
Originally by: RAW23
The same is true of the refusals to answer the second question. The question of who has access to the isk remains unanswered. 'I'm not going to tell you' does not constitute an answer to the question, only a reply.
Is it really that hard to determine who has access to what based on Block's replies? Seems very clear that Block has access to everything as CEO. Poison has access to 80% of the cash reserve and everything in the BSAC capital ship building project. I doubt Poison has access to the mineral reserve as he wouldn't need access. Nor would he have access to anything related to the stock exchange. No one else has access to anything.
If that's the case why doesn't he just say that? I would have been perfectly satisfied with that as an answer (if it was changed from your assumptions to a firm statement from Block) and would have shut up on this particular point a long time ago if he said this.
If you read the Prospectus then you would see that block is in fact the one running things.
I am wondering how Molic Blackbird knew this but you didnt figure it out?
I prefer not to make assumptions when I can get greater clarity from a simple answer. If Molic's description is precisely correct (are you confirming this, btw?) then great. I can't for the life of me work out why Block would give the answers he did, though.
So, is it the case that only Block has any access to the mineral reserve and that no one else in BSAC could ever steal the contents? that you have access to 80% of the cash reserve and that none of the other directors have, or will in the future have, access to any BSAC assets at all?
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.23 00:16:00 -
[315]
Edited by: Poison on 23/01/2011 00:16:27
Block has 100% access to the Mineral reserve.
Block currently has 100% access to the capital ship operation. I will have some access later.
I have 80% of the CR isk. Block holds 20%
BOD does not or will have direct access other then what I listed.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:14:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Poison
Edited by: Poison on 23/01/2011 00:16:27
Block has 100% access to the Mineral reserve.
Block currently has 100% access to the capital ship operation. I will have some access later.
I have 80% of the CR isk. Block holds 20%
BOD does not or will have direct access other then what I listed.
Thank you. That's all I wanted to know on that issue.
I suppose it would seem churlish if I tacked on a question about whether there is a hit by a bus contingency plan? |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:46:00 -
[317]
ôhit by a bus contingency plan?ö
You mean as if I die?
- In that case Poison will be in charge of liquidating the company.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:55:00 -
[318]
Edited by: RAW23 on 23/01/2011 15:55:44
Originally by: Block Ukx
ôhit by a bus contingency plan?ö
You mean as if I die?
- In that case Poison will be in charge of liquidating the company.
Thanks. Would he have some way of accessing the mineral reserve in this event or would that part of the business be a lost cause? This is asked purely out of interest and not because I think it is a critical question from an investor perspective.
Since we seem to be moving forward somewhat let me explain my reasoning about asking about director stakes in terms of two suggestions that can be discussed.
Block has indicated that the total exposure should be counted with his own stake included because he could sell off his stake at any point, thus increasing public exposure to a level equal to 700bil. This is by no means unreasonable. However, there are two points that I believe are worth considering here which, if addressed, could increase the transparency of the operation and add to the confidence of investors and potential investors.
Firstly, there is a problem of perception in the lack of clarity about how much public funds are held at a given point in time. As an investor, one of the things I often use to gauge the risk of a new or expanded investment is a comparison of how much is being added to the amount that could be scammed with the highest amount that the individual/corp has held before. Without this information I lose one of my risk gauges. Now, I realise that the current privacy policy allows, although it does not mandate, that this information not be made public. But by waiving this policy both Poison and Block would be able to increase transparency and, thus, make it easier for investors to make more fully informed decisions. I can't, personally, see the benefit of not waiving the right to privacy in their cases (although I do, of course, see the value of the policy for the other investors) but I am completely open to persuasion as to its utility. So, would you consider, as individuals, waiving this right and, if not, could you explain what is gained by keeping this information secret?
Secondly, in a purely hypothetical situation in which a scam was intended, one assumes that the individuals intending to scam would seek to sell off as much of their own stakes as possible in advance, thus maximising the amounts that they could walk off with. Would BSAC consider introducing some reporting mechanism whereby the BOD would be mandated to make a public announcement in the event of any director with access to large amounts of assets (i.e. Poison and Block) liquidating any percentage of their holdings above a certain thresh-hold? This suggestion could be implemented regardless of the first suggestion and would have the benefit for investors of providing an early warning system if someone was looking to cash out and walk off. Again, I can see a benefit here in increasing the flow of information from the corp to investors and potential investors but I can't see a downside. Of course, not being familiar with the internal workings of BSAC there may indeed be a downside of which I am not aware. If this is the case, please explain what the problems with such an approach would be.
So, two suggestions as to how transparency could be increased as starting points for discussion.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:16:00 -
[319]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 23/01/2011 16:23:21
My current stake, in BSAC, as of 1/23/2011 11:00 AM EST is 25,099,649,273.98. That does not includes the 4 B I reserved in the new expansion.
I cannot disclose PoisonÆs stake due to our privacy policy.
Yes, your suggestion of a flagging system is a very good one and IÆm sure our current Exchange auditor will approve of it. IÆll talk to him about implementing this option. But I would like to remind you that IÆm the one doing the withdrawals, so it would be obvious to me if someone is trying to sell off his large stake, unless the character is sold as the account is tied to the characterÆs name. In addition, the BOD has complete access to everyoneÆs stake.
There are many other ways to abuse the system, and I donÆt think it would be a good idea to be advertising them in the forums. However, BSAC holds the right to cease any account if we have probable cause of wrong doing.
EDIT: About Poison the MR, he will be getting the entire MR and MR ISK via an item exchange. |
Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
|
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:14:00 -
[320]
Originally by: RAW23
Secondly, in a purely hypothetical situation in which a scam was intended, one assumes that the individuals intending to scam would seek to sell off as much of their own stakes as possible in advance, thus maximising the amounts that they could walk off with. Would BSAC consider introducing some reporting mechanism whereby the BOD would be mandated to make a public announcement in the event of any director with access to large amounts of assets (i.e. Poison and Block) liquidating any percentage of their holdings above a certain thresh-hold? This suggestion could be implemented regardless of the first suggestion and would have the benefit for investors of providing an early warning system if someone was looking to cash out and walk off. Again, I can see a benefit here in increasing the flow of information from the corp to investors and potential investors but I can't see a downside. Of course, not being familiar with the internal workings of BSAC there may indeed be a downside of which I am not aware. If this is the case, please explain what the problems with such an approach would be.
Originally by: Block Ukx
Yes, your suggestion of a flagging system is a very good one and IÆm sure our current Exchange auditor will approve of it. IÆll talk to him about implementing this option. But I would like to remind you that IÆm the one doing the withdrawals, so it would be obvious to me if someone is trying to sell off his large stake, unless the character is sold as the account is tied to the characterÆs name. In addition, the BOD has complete access to everyoneÆs stake.
I am guessing that is for me to respond to but I am in no way speaking officially as at this stage I have not spoken to Block in detail about this, but I will be pushing it as a publicly viewable system.
There are a few other ideas and possible things in discussion as the Exchange is an on-going project, and I think that I am allowed to say that the Short Selling is likely to be delayed until these ideas are developed and a robust and more "transparent" reporting system for Short Selling is implemented.
Currently, I, and any BoD member, has full access to view shareholdings and transactions on the Exchange. I have flagged a number of tranactions on the Exchange to both Block and Poison (ie. internal), and on one occasion the Exchnge was temporarily closed to investigate. On none of these occasions was anything wrong, but internal reports and systems were tweaked to enable clearer identification of any other problems (apologies to those involved, you probably do not know who you are/were, and we tried to keep things as civil and private as possible).
I must say here and now, and I hope that this does not result in a sacking, I would report any dubious transactions by any of the BoD on the Forums too. However, please bear in mind that as Block and/or Poison are the only ones with real access to assets, any such transactions by them would more than liklely be an accidental coincidence as they could take the money and run anytime (again, that sounds bad, but someone has to hold the money and it comes down to trust in EVE).
Hope that helps, and as Block says; "There are many other ways to abuse the system, and I donÆt think it would be a good idea to be advertising them in the forums. However, BSAC holds the right to cease any account if we have probable cause of wrong doing.". I would cetainly attempt to apply that rule to the BoD too, and hope that through constructive conversation and experience the former can be reduced.
(My avatar did not look that dark when I was making it  ) |
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.01.24 15:30:00 -
[321]
Block - Thank you for your answers. Between the willingness to get an audit, Poison's confirmation on this page of the director security exposure situation, and your willingness to waive the privacy clause and state your stake in the business, nearly all the major concerns I raised and questions I asked have now been addressed. If Poison is willing to state his stake as well I would say that pretty much all the basic information needed to make informed decisions on investing would now be available. There are a number of other bits of information I would also like to see available but none of these are as important as those that have now been addressed so I'll leave them for another time and stop breathing down your necks on this.
Marcus - Thanks for commenting. It is heartening to hear that you would publicly flag any director transactions that you considered worrying. I must admit, though, that now that Block's own stake is a matter of record this particular issue appears to be much less of a concern than it might otherwise have been (if, for instance, his stake had been in the 100bil plus range).
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.24 16:29:00 -
[322]
This is goin places now :D Good to see.
p.s. block the page your sig links to for bsac info, that page still has the exchange link going to your old site.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.28 00:31:00 -
[323]
BSAC Stock Exchange is the only real-time exchange in the Eve universe where trades occur instantly. Best of all, there are no trading fees. Join today!
Important Announcements
1) Automatic Updates: We added a new code to Exchange to do automatic updates using the API journal. At this time, the code will run once a day, but we hope to have it running every three hours after a few days. Please email BSAC MMM if you have any issues regarding missing deposits or withdrawals.
2) New Messaging System: We added a new messaging system to inform the user when a deposit and withdrawal request is processed. The messages will show in your ômy accountö page. We will no longer send emails after processing those requests.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.01.29 01:24:00 -
[324]
Deposits will be checked every six hours.
Login details sent. Please contact me if I did not sent your login details.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:07:00 -
[325]
Important
The in-game BSAC shares will no longer issue dividends. You must be return your BSAC shares to recieve your registered shares, or you will miss your dividend.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 02:55:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Important
The in-game BSAC shares will no longer issue dividends. You must be return your BSAC shares to recieve your registered shares, or you will miss your dividend.
Page 11 of this thread is definitely the best way to get in touch with your investors, especially when the penalty for not finding this notice is that you get to keep some of their money.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.08 04:15:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Block Ukx on 08/02/2011 04:16:54
This notice has been posted in the title of this thread, in the opening post of this thread, in our January Financial Report, In our public website, in the BSACSE, in our in-game channel BSACPUBLIC channel, in the company description, and emailed to shareholders via a corporation vote.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 04:46:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Block Ukx
This notice has been posted in the title of this thread, in the opening post of this thread, in our January Financial Report, In our public website, in the BSACSE, in our in-game channel BSACPUBLIC channel, in the company description, and emailed to shareholders via a corporation vote.
I'm assuming most of your shareholders that don't have their shares on your exchange don't follow you too closely. This would, by nature, mean this post, and your website. You can't tell me your in game channel is all that busy. The corporation vote is a decent avenue.
But then again, you're doing something outside of your prospectus that changes the structure of their investment. That tends to not really be a good thing.
Will you be tracking the dividends owed to the people who have yet to virtualize their shares? Or is that simply lost income to them?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.08 04:51:00 -
[329]
Dividends will go into a Trust account and paid to shareholders when shares are returned.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
khai88
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Posted - 2011.02.08 05:48:00 -
[330]
Edited by: khai88 on 08/02/2011 05:49:48
any info when is the next BSAC 200000 share on sell??? miss the first IPO which sell out way too fast.
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Xeoniya
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Posted - 2011.02.08 18:12:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Xeoniya on 08/02/2011 18:12:52
Not to mention most of us shareholders have recieved an eve mail telling us to contact him. It is reassuring to know there is a trust/escrow account established. These 2 together should inform anyone returning after a long period away what is going on. Additionally Block is a very visable character so not exactly difficult to get a hold of. I am not sure if the new contact info was put into the company detail, but I am fairly confident it has, so there is that route to finding out what is going on with shares as well.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.09 03:36:00 -
[332]
The next set of shares will likely be issued in mid-March.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.10 18:02:00 -
[333]
Remember to contact BSAC MMM for instructions on how to return your shares.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.12 01:16:00 -
[334]
Don't forget to turn in your shares.
New accounts created. Contact BSAC MMM if you did not recieve your login details.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.16 03:14:00 -
[335]
The API Journal is having some technical difficulties. As a result deposits might be delayed more than 48 hrs. See API Patch notes for details.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.17 03:44:00 -
[336]
Please, don't forget to turn in your shares.
New accounts created. Contact BSAC MMM if you did not recieve your login details.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.21 02:44:00 -
[337]
Please, don't forget to turn in your BSAC shares. Contact BSAC MMM for details.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.21 03:01:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Please, don't forget to turn in your BSAC shares. Contact BSAC MMM for details.
Hows that "Super Ultimate Transparency" thing your working on going?
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.21 03:29:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Block Ukx
Please, don't forget to turn in your BSAC shares. Contact BSAC MMM for details.
Hows that "Super Ultimate Transparency" thing your working on going?
Fine, Capital ships almost ready to be audited. You find someone one to do it?
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.21 03:42:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Poison
Fine, Capital ships almost ready to be audited. You find someone one to do it?
Do you know what the word "audit" means?
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.21 04:03:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Poison
Fine, Capital ships almost ready to be audited. You find someone one to do it?
Do you know what the word "audit" means?
Do you know what "constructive" Means?
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.21 04:10:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Poison
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Poison
Fine, Capital ships almost ready to be audited. You find someone one to do it?
Do you know what the word "audit" means?
Do you know what "constructive" Means?
Here's a constructive suggestion - don't try to refer to the accounts of a dummy company as an audit. No-one in MD is stupid enough to believe that constitutes an audit when the main business hasn't been checked.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.21 04:16:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Poison
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Originally by: Poison
Fine, Capital ships almost ready to be audited. You find someone one to do it?
Do you know what the word "audit" means?
Do you know what "constructive" Means?
Here's a constructive suggestion - don't try to refer to the accounts of a dummy company as an audit. No-one in MD is stupid enough to believe that constitutes an audit when the main business hasn't been checked.
I guess you must of missed the point that block was focusing on capital ships first before The mineral reserve. He is also not going to stop making isk for our current stock holders while getting it ready for an audit. But I am rather tired of this flame.
I was just letting someone know that it is being worked on.
But then most people here flame vs being constructive
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:04:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Poison
I guess you must of missed the point that block was focusing on capital ships first before The mineral reserve. He is also not going to stop making isk for our current stock holders while getting it ready for an audit. But I am rather tired of this flame.
I was just letting someone know that it is being worked on.
But then most people here flame vs being constructive
It's a waste of everyone's time for you to shuffle some of the investor's assets into a dummy corporation and that have that and only that looked at.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:20:00 -
[345]
Edited by: RAW23 on 21/02/2011 09:25:28
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Poison
I guess you must of missed the point that block was focusing on capital ships first before The mineral reserve. He is also not going to stop making isk for our current stock holders while getting it ready for an audit. But I am rather tired of this flame.
I was just letting someone know that it is being worked on.
But then most people here flame vs being constructive
It's a waste of everyone's time for you to shuffle some of the investor's assets into a dummy corporation and that have that and only that looked at.
My understanding was that the initial and then ongoing audit on the capital ship operation would be used as a trial run for the technology and systems that would then be applied to BSAC as a whole.
I would be very interested to hear more about the methods that are being developed and would suggest that a public discussion of the approach being taken would be a good idea before you finalise it. I understand from Block's post elsewhere that the planned system will be software based with two (?) trustees having oversight. Could either Block or Poison elaborate on the role of the Trustees? I assume that they will have no business dealings with or interests in BSAC, that is, will be neutral third parties, but what exactly will be their role? Will they carry out manual audits to verify the automated data and, if so, will they have unfettered access to all of BSAC? Or will their role be to audit the software that is doing the automated auditing? What are you looking for in the Trustees and do you have anyone in mind? Will the same Trustees be responsible for BSAC and the capital ship fund or different ones?
Edit - Btw, Poison: will you follow Block's example and waive your privacy rights so that you can announce what your stake in BSAC is?
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.21 13:22:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Poison on 21/02/2011 13:22:28
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 21/02/2011 09:25:28
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Poison
I guess you must of missed the point that block was focusing on capital ships first before The mineral reserve. He is also not going to stop making isk for our current stock holders while getting it ready for an audit. But I am rather tired of this flame.
I was just letting someone know that it is being worked on.
But then most people here flame vs being constructive
It's a waste of everyone's time for you to shuffle some of the investor's assets into a dummy corporation and that have that and only that looked at.
My understanding was that the initial and then ongoing audit on the capital ship operation would be used as a trial run for the technology and systems that would then be applied to BSAC as a whole.
I would be very interested to hear more about the methods that are being developed and would suggest that a public discussion of the approach being taken would be a good idea before you finalise it. I understand from Block's post elsewhere that the planned system will be software based with two (?) trustees having oversight. Could either Block or Poison elaborate on the role of the Trustees? I assume that they will have no business dealings with or interests in BSAC, that is, will be neutral third parties, but what exactly will be their role? Will they carry out manual audits to verify the automated data and, if so, will they have unfettered access to all of BSAC? Or will their role be to audit the software that is doing the automated auditing? What are you looking for in the Trustees and do you have anyone in mind? Will the same Trustees be responsible for BSAC and the capital ship fund or different ones?
Edit - Btw, Poison: will you follow Block's example and waive your privacy rights so that you can announce what your stake in BSAC is?
I have a total 195B in assets in BSAC.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:22:00 -
[347]
I have been very busy lately in RL, so I havenÆt done much coding. BSAC has several ventures that are all independent of each other. The idea is to start with CSF, then move to the rest of the ventures. The plan is very simple; make the corporation data available to everyone. The data will be posted in our website, and the Trustees role is to ensure that the posted data is correct. At this time the BOD are the trustees as they already have the API key to the CSF account. In addition, IÆm going to add some coding to do the financial reporting in the website. Again, since everyone has access to the corporation data, then anyone can verify that the financial information is correct.
The main problem at the moment is that there is no contract API. I believe ccp is working on this. Please donÆt hesitate to posts your ideas on this issue.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Proton Power
Amarr
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.02.22 13:58:00 -
[348]
All an audit proves is that he has minerals and bpo's, sells some capitals. It does not provide an actual safeguard against scamming.
If you want a confirmation that he has what he claims, I can pretty much tell you he does, since I haul the majority of his minerals for him for the capital construction, and some for the exchcange when block is moving minerals from one hub to another.
An audit on somthign like this is stupid, but I will gladly volunteer to verify how many of Each Mineral type he holds, aprox value based on current market prices, what BPO's they hold, and that they are selling/buying minerals and capital ships.
Don't see why Block would allow an audit but hey what ever.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.22 19:40:00 -
[349]
The Cash Reserve is accepting deposits.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.22 20:42:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The plan is very simple; make the corporation data available to everyone.
But verified by no-one
Originally by: Block Ukx
The data will be posted in our website,
You already have a mountain of information on your website, why do you think that putting more up will be equal to an audit?
Originally by: Block Ukx
and the Trustees role is to ensure that the posted data is correct.
Translation: Sencnes is our first, last and only line of defence
Originally by: Block Ukx
Again, since everyone has access to the corporation data, then anyone can verify that the financial information is correct.
Everyone except an auditor.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.22 21:25:00 -
[351]
Ok but you seem to forget.... You need to find an auditer any pay for one. In the mean time feel free to make yourself feel important and keep flaming.
Thank you.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.22 22:39:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Poison
Ok but you seem to forget.... You need to find an auditer any pay for one. In the mean time feel free to make yourself feel important and keep flaming.
Thank you.
I believe there have been several offers to pay people to do this.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.22 23:01:00 -
[353]
Edited by: Poison on 22/02/2011 23:02:19
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Poison
Ok but you seem to forget.... You need to find an auditer any pay for one. In the mean time feel free to make yourself feel important and keep flaming.
Thank you.
I believe there have been several offers to pay people to do this.
Pay maybe find? Not yet.. And like Proton brought up you will still call this a ponzi so it does not matter what we do.. Its all about the Flame
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.22 23:04:00 -
[354]
I apologize for interrupting your conversation but...
What is the new Cash Reserve limit, please? 150 bil?
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Fulbert.
Miner - Industrialist |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.02.22 23:14:00 -
[355]
Edited by: RAW23 on 22/02/2011 23:21:35
Originally by: Proton Power
All an audit proves is that he has minerals and bpo's, sells some capitals. It does not provide an actual safeguard against scamming.
If you want a confirmation that he has what he claims, I can pretty much tell you he does, since I haul the majority of his minerals for him for the capital construction, and some for the exchcange when block is moving minerals from one hub to another.
An audit on somthign like this is stupid, but I will gladly volunteer to verify how many of Each Mineral type he holds, aprox value based on current market prices, what BPO's they hold, and that they are selling/buying minerals and capital ships.
Don't see why Block would allow an audit but hey what ever.
Actually, the thing that really needs the audit is BSAC rather than the cap ship production business. The audit system for this business is, I understand, to provide the ground work for a more widespread system for BSAC as a whole.
@Poison - Thank you for the figure re: your stake in the business. Investors can now make their decisions based on the figure of c. 480bil in public isk held by BSAC.
As to the auditor, rather than people just throwing names at you, could you outline what your requirements are and what role the trustee(s) will play in the new system? If, for instance, the system will be such as to require that the software be vetted it will be important to know that in suggesting someone for the role. Can you think of anyone that you would be happy to conduct the audit? Equally, is there anyone you think might be suggested who you would not be happy with? the easiest way to find someone acceptable would be to lay out your requirements in advance.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.22 23:20:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Fulbert
I apologize for interrupting your conversation but...
What is the new Cash Reserve limit, please? 150 bil?
Its been held at 150b but we had a withdraw so now its open up to that again.
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Poison
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.22 23:23:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Poison on 22/02/2011 23:23:42
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Proton Power
All an audit proves is that he has minerals and bpo's, sells some capitals. It does not provide an actual safeguard against scamming.
If you want a confirmation that he has what he claims, I can pretty much tell you he does, since I haul the majority of his minerals for him for the capital construction, and some for the exchcange when block is moving minerals from one hub to another.
An audit on somthign like this is stupid, but I will gladly volunteer to verify how many of Each Mineral type he holds, aprox value based on current market prices, what BPO's they hold, and that they are selling/buying minerals and capital ships.
Don't see why Block would allow an audit but hey what ever.
Actually, the thing that really needs the audit is BSAC rather than the cap ship production business. The audit system for this business, is, I understand, to provide the ground work for a more widespread system for BSAC as a whole.
@Poison - Thank you for the figure re: your stake in the business. Investors can now make their decisions based on the figure of c. 480bil in public isk held by BSAC.
As to the auditor, rather than people just throwing names at you, could you outline what your requirements are and what role the trustee(s) will play in the new system? If, for instance, the system will be such as to require that the software be vetted it will be important to know that in suggesting someone for the role. Can you think of anyone that you would be happy to conduct the audit? Equally, is there anyone you think might be suggested who you would not be happy with? the easiest way to find someone acceptable would be to lay out your requirements in advance.
Block will have to answer this for you since he is the one working on this. I never meant to hide what I had invested and have made parts of what i own public. I am using what I own as back up to cover incase of a scam/hit by a bus.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.23 01:16:00 -
[358]
The Capital Ships Fund (CSF), which was recently expanded, is part of BSAC.
The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.23 09:46:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The Capital Ships Fund (CSF), which was recently expanded, is part of BSAC.
The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
Will trustees have access to the API key used to generate this website data?
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 10:42:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
An audit relies on a review and analysis of source documents. In RL the meaning of source documents is obvious. In EVE it means access to relevant information directly from CCP.
Data posted on your website is not source data, could have errors, or could have been intentionally tampered with.
In short - there's no need to wait for your system. It is impossible to carry out an audit based solely on your website.
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Proton Power
Amarr
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.02.23 13:27:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Varo Jan
Originally by: Block Ukx
The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
An audit relies on a review and analysis of source documents. In RL the meaning of source documents is obvious. In EVE it means access to relevant information directly from CCP.
Data posted on your website is not source data, could have errors, or could have been intentionally tampered with.
In short - there's no need to wait for your system. It is impossible to carry out an audit based solely on your website.
This is what the trustee's are for. To make sure the information on the website is correct and not misleading is the way I understand it.
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 14:15:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Proton Power
Originally by: Varo Jan
Originally by: Block Ukx
The role of the API Trustees is to overview the corporation data supplied in the website. The data posted in the website should be sufficinet for anyone to perform their own audit, or they can chose to pay for someone else to do the audit. This will become more clear once the system is in place.
An audit relies on a review and analysis of source documents. In RL the meaning of source documents is obvious. In EVE it means access to relevant information directly from CCP.
Data posted on your website is not source data, could have errors, or could have been intentionally tampered with.
In short - there's no need to wait for your system. It is impossible to carry out an audit based solely on your website.
This is what the trustee's are for. To make sure the information on the website is correct and not misleading is the way I understand it.
First, I was referring to Block's contention that "anyone" can either audit or pay for an audit based on the data posted on the website. That contention of Block's is completely wrong.
Second, Block has not explicitly stated that a trustee(s) will be tasked with performing regular audits using direct API access. Besides, do any of the trustees have the required skills?
And last, you of all people know exactly how an audit should be carried out. Remember Magnu?
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.23 14:16:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Proton Power
This is what the trustee's are for. To make sure the information on the website is correct and not misleading is the way I understand it.
That's my understanding too, but I was hoping either Block or Poison would explicitly say something to that effect, since with the latest post it could be read that the trustees are incharge of looking at the website data and checking that it matches what Poison/Block says it should be, not what the API is.
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 21:23:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The Cash Reserve is accepting deposits.
Strange name. So you're a pseudo-bank, too? A deposit taker.
Am I right in saying that these are open-ended deposits paying 3% per calendar month, repayable immediately on demand?
Some questions:
1. Do you have the liquidity to repay the full 150B immediately, should there be a need?
2. How are these deposits being used by you? Are they being invested in stable operations with measurable returns, or are they being used for purposes such as mineral speculation?
Whatever the case may be, this makes it imperative that you have regular independent audits. I'd remind you that EBank, Ihatalo (sp?) and others that failed grandly relied on trust alone to scoop up large public funds, looked very pretty with their websites and documentation - and never had audits.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.02.24 02:40:00 -
[365]
The Cash Reserve is managed by Poison under the supervision of BSAC, and is currently caped at around 150 B ISK. Deposits in the cash reserve accumulate daily interests that are paid after the end of the month. Any ISK removed prior to the "PAYOUT" day will not earn interest. Interest rates are subject to change monthly. ISK can be withdrawn at anytime, and there are no transfer fees. An account is needed to deposit ISK in the Cash Reserve.
I process the deposits and withdrawals and I keep 20% of the Cash Reserve as liquid ISK. Large withdrawals can take up to 72 hrs to process, as it requires liquidating some of the CR investments. To ensure that we can pay 3% monthly, the performance of the CR is monitored by me via API custom-made software.
I audit BSAC in a regular basis and keep records of all the transactions to ensure that the financial information we publish is correct.
We plan to increase our transparency by deploying a new system where the corporationÆs data will be published in our website. We plan to publish enough information for anyone to do their own performance check, or you can pay someone to do the audit for you. If you canÆt find the information you need, then you should contact me so I can add it to the website. The data that will be posted in the website will be verified by the API Trustees. Currently, the board of directors is the designated API Trustee. We will invite trusted non-BSAC individuals, like Proton Power for instance, to hold the API key.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
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Posted - 2011.02.24 16:31:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The Cash Reserve is managed by Poison under the supervision of BSAC, and is currently caped at around 150 B ISK. Deposits in the cash reserve accumulate daily interests that are paid after the end of the month. Any ISK removed prior to the "PAYOUT" day will not earn interest. Interest rates are subject to change monthly. ISK can be withdrawn at anytime, and there are no transfer fees. An account is needed to deposit ISK in the Cash Reserve.
I process the deposits and withdrawals and I keep 20% of the Cash Reserve as liquid ISK. Large withdrawals can take up to 72 hrs to process, as it requires liquidating some of the CR investments. To ensure that we can pay 3% monthly, the performance of the CR is monitored by me via API custom-made software.
I audit BSAC in a regular basis and keep records of all the transactions to ensure that the financial information we publish is correct.
We plan to increase our transparency by deploying a new system where the corporationÆs data will be published in our website. We plan to publish enough information for anyone to do their own performance check, or you can pay someone to do the audit for you. If you canÆt find the information you need, then you should contact me so I can add it to the website. The data that will be posted in the website will be verified by the API Trustees. Currently, the board of directors is the designated API Trustee. We will invite trusted non-BSAC individuals, like Proton Power for instance, to hold the API key.
I can confirm that I have been given an API key but have yet to find the time to do an audit on it - why I would like non-BSAC key holders too.
I will say that there was a large withdrawal from the Cash Reserve recently, and it was processed in the time between my two checks. There is currently only one account that exceeds Block's Cash Reserve liquidity of 20% and as far as I am aware it does not belong to any BSAC BoD (or their alts). (Suggestion being made to Block).
I have thrown a few more ideas/suggestions at Block and he is probably getting fed up of me now, but he is continuing to update on what is going on, even if it is in the background.
--
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Einear Lightfingers
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Posted - 2011.03.15 04:09:00 -
[367]
Block, I'm sure you have more than enough going on, but how do you plan to handle the missing dividends from NHIMF. Also do you know if there will be any stocks or dividends paid out on the ore stocks besides MEDIF and MEXIF or if BSAMR will get a dividend this month as well? Thanks for any update. This is not a criticism more of an inquiry. Love the stock exchange, just seeing some stocks getting posted later than others and trying to determine if items above will be getting a late dividend as well.
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Kudlow N'cramer
World Eaters Excavation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:51:00 -
[368]
I have a firm grasp on everything it would take to issue shares of my corp on BSAC: tighten up and audit finances, develop a plan/strategy for issuing and pricing dividends, coming up with a prospectus and attracting investors, etc...
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:20:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
Send a mail to BSAC MMM? He'll violate you in private, then we'll violate you in public when your listing is announced. Sound good?
I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches. |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:24:00 -
[370]
..So what's your position on the exchange Ray? Just wondering.
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:42:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer
I have a firm grasp on everything it would take to issue shares of my corp on BSAC: tighten up and audit finances, develop a plan/strategy for issuing and pricing dividends, coming up with a prospectus and attracting investors, etc...
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
Firstly you would open an account with BSAC, I forget the exact process, I think you send 1m isk to the char 'BSAC MMM', but best to email him first as Ray said.
Once your account is set up, you would let BSAC MMM know you are planning on listing shares on the exchange. He would set that up for you, and when he is ready he would tell you to transfer the shares to him.
Your account would then be listed with virtual shares which you can sell via the exchange. Any isk you make would be put onto your account balance which you can then request be transferred to your eve character, or you could retain it on your account to invest in other shares.
Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:52:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
First open an account (send 1M ISK to BSAC MMM)
Assuming the stock is listed, to deposit shares, email BSAC MMM for instructions.
If the stock is not listed, then it has to meet some minimum listing requirements:
1) Published IPO in this forums
2) Recieved a positive review (ie sold-out is a positive review)
3) At least one share must be registered with the Exchange.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Skarii TuThess
Lansez Innovations
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Posted - 2011.05.12 07:16:00 -
[373]
Hi everyone,
I had to take an unfortunate and sudden break from Eve before christmas. I'm in the process of getting back into Eve, which includes restarting my role as NHIMF manager.
When I left the fund we had just been hit by the T4U scam, and the fund value stood at 800m ISK (ish) from the original 1bn investment. Prior to this my trading strategy had been to mainly focus upon non-BSAC shares, with the emphasis on using my liquidity to set a tighter margin. As a backup I was also making investments into the mineral fund. I considered the latter to be higher risk, and so my purchases were smaller. This was working reasonably well early on, but a general lack of movement in the share market was disappointing.
When the scam hit it wiped a reasonable portion off of the value of the fund. This meant that not only was the fund under the starting position but that dividends were not going to be paid (as these would only be paid upon the value of the fund above the starting point). Due to the lack of mobility of the other shares I altered my trading startegy to focus more upon the mineral fund. In particular it seemed to me that Pyerite seemed underpriced at 4.23 ISK / unit, so I invested heavily here. Zydrine also seemed reasonably priced at 1063 / unit, but had the benefit of regular dividends and seemed a good investment.
At present the Pyerite value is 4.73, whilst the Zydrine value has fallen to 896. Overall, alongside mineral fund dividend payouts, this puts the current fund value at 1,294m ISK. Of this 1,101m is book value of investments held, whilst 193m is held in uninvested ISK.
I would like to apologise to the shareholders for my absence. I am working with Block to gift the fund 250m ISK that can be paid out as a bonus dividend as an apology for the lack of management to the fund from me over the last 5 months. I will be reviewing the fund over the next couple of days to decide what the best strategy is from here on.
Once again sorry for the MIA on this.
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Kudlow N'cramer
World Eaters Excavation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:24:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer
But for the life of me I can't find info on how exactly I would register shares on the exchange and what that process would be like.
First open an account (send 1M ISK to BSAC MMM)
Assuming the stock is listed, to deposit shares, email BSAC MMM for instructions.
If the stock is not listed, then it has to meet some minimum listing requirements:
1) Published IPO in this forums
2) Recieved a positive review (ie sold-out is a positive review)
3) At least one share must be registered with the Exchange.
Thank you. I'm fairly sure I have a grasp on the effort this is going to take to set up. I have a little bit of academic knowledge in finance, but I've been researching stocks for private investment for nearly ten years now. So, if and when I choose to list, it'll be up to snuff.
One last question about the IPO:
According to your prerequisites, I have issue in-game shares via an IPO before I can give the appropriate amount of shares to BSAC for listing? What if those investors quit the game?
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Lando Antilles
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:37:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
Did not know this was possible. So exchange shareholders are notified of corp votes and Block votes their proxy?
If true, that does add more functionality and transparency (though not security) to the exchange.
----------------------
My *locked* EVE CV |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:00:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Kudlow N'cramer
According to your prerequisites, I have issue in-game shares via an IPO before I can give the appropriate amount of shares to BSAC for listing? What if those investors quit the game?
Which shares are you interested in listing?
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Annabelle Horiz
New Horizon Investments
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:46:00 -
[377]
NHIMF Re-establishment report
Introduction
I have now returned and taken an account of the condition of the fund. Overall it is in good condition other than the lack of dividends paid since the creation. This was in part due to my absence, and in part due to the financial loss incurred from the T4U scam.
Net Asset Value
The BSAC stock exchange currently values the NHIMF at 1.251m ISK.
Dividend
Due to my feeling that one of the assets of NHIMF is being overvalued by the exchange I personally feel that a 90% dividend of the 251m ISK profit to be too high, and would therefore put the fund at under the intrinsic share value. My value reduces the asset value of the fund to 1,222m ISK. Therefore at 90% a dividend of 200m ISK has been paid.
Future Tradining Conditions
The stock exchange feels in a better condition that when I left due to the presence of new entries on the fund. Thereffore I feel that there is good trading conidtions to profit from this activity. I have altered my trading strategy to place reduced emphasis on the mineral funds to shift towards taking advantage of these conditions.
I still feel very much that the secondary market is still in an infancy within Eve. Due to the high presence of scams or failures the client base interested in taking part in such ventures are generally very conservative. When they find a venture that they like (which is fairly rare) then they will hold onto it, trusting the dividends rather than risking long term profit loss for a short term gain. There are few exceptions that I have seen to this philosophy.
There is a greater problem on the level of IPOs and the volatility of the secondary market. Ventures less than 5bn ISK tend to be small enough that those lucky enough to get in on the duck shoot will get shares and tend to hold onto them. Larger ventures tend to have much greater volatility, but much less protection. Therefore although trading conditions are good there is a cynical sense that it is only a matter of time for many of these ventures.
In order to increase the activity on the secondary market we would need for more IPOs to be launched on exchanges, such as this one. However it is understandable that there remains a level of caution around this.
AOB
Having spoken with Block I have decided that rather than pay the 250m ISK apology fine through the exchange (as this would distort the performance) I will be paying these in game to the existing stock holders. Once again my apologies for this enforcedbreak - please be assured that business is back to normal.
[NHI] Investing in the sunny days of tomorrow. |
Lando Antilles
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Posted - 2011.05.14 18:58:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
Did not know this was possible. So exchange shareholders are notified of corp votes and Block votes their proxy?
Block,
I'd appreciate a public confirmation or denial of the above functionality.
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My *locked* EVE CV |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.15 00:36:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Lastly if you run votes on your shares, they can be voted on by shareholders within the exchange functionality.
Did not know this was possible. So exchange shareholders are notified of corp votes and Block votes their proxy?
Block,
I'd appreciate a public confirmation or denial of the above functionality.
The functionality exist, however, it has not been used yet for share related votes. Part of the issue is that there is no vote API, so it would be nice if the CEO would email me ahead of time to post the vote before it is issued.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.05.15 06:19:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Block Ukx
there is no vote API
Pull the Notifications API and look for typeID 25.
I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches. |
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.05.18 01:08:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Block Ukx
there is no vote API
Pull the Notifications API and look for typeID 25.
Thanks for the info. I will work on implementing this in the Exchange.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
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