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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.12.24 12:28:00 -
[601]
 Originally by: Luc Boye
Disco, you apoc hoe, easy for you to say.
Great, now we have a ship that we can ESCAPE A LOT in. Can CCP change description to something like "Megathron is great cargo runner when correctly fitted" etc.
7 wcs mega ftw.
sry, not my fault that gallente have such****gy ships =/
anyway, +300% struct is more then the rest get, it's a good thing (an added bonus, if you will) 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.12.24 12:28:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Disco, you apoc hoe, easy for you to say.
Great, now we have a ship that we can ESCAPE A LOT in. Can CCP change description to something like "Megathron is great cargo runner when correctly fitted" etc.
7 wcs mega ftw.
sry, not my fault that gallente have such****gy ships =/
anyway, +300% struct is more then the rest get, it's a good thing (an added bonus, if you will)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.24 12:49:00 -
[603]
Originally by: DREAMWORKS
I ask myself this:
How is CCp going to prevent people just sit at a gate waiting for their agro timer to wear off and jump or when you slam on a webi, they still crawl to the gate and make it.
uhm we could remove instant jumps instead  and make the agro timer last longer ...
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.24 12:49:00 -
[604]
Originally by: DREAMWORKS
I ask myself this:
How is CCp going to prevent people just sit at a gate waiting for their agro timer to wear off and jump or when you slam on a webi, they still crawl to the gate and make it.
uhm we could remove instant jumps instead and make the agro timer last longer ...
Greetings Grim |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.12.24 14:30:00 -
[605]
We could.
Or we could chose NOT to open this can of worms in the first place.
There's SO much which'll be screwed by this I think we'll still be having problems months down the line
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.12.24 14:30:00 -
[606]
We could.
Or we could chose NOT to open this can of worms in the first place.
There's SO much which'll be screwed by this I think we'll still be having problems months down the line
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Digiblast
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Posted - 2004.12.24 15:37:00 -
[607]
Ok lets say u boost up the ships armor and shield... will u nerf them again when u add in the bigger ships?
Why not just leave this alone and add more ships that are more powerfull!!
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Digiblast
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Posted - 2004.12.24 15:37:00 -
[608]
Ok lets say u boost up the ships armor and shield... will u nerf them again when u add in the bigger ships?
Why not just leave this alone and add more ships that are more powerfull!!
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.12.24 23:33:00 -
[609]
To everyone whining that Gallente are getting the shaft, have you even looked at the numbers? not only does everyone get a 100% increase to their shields and armor (in total) gallente get an EXTRA 200% bonus to structure, 300% more structure, not going to matter? give me a break! So many times in my taranis have I fought another interceptor and won the fight with my in half my structure and the enemy messaging me wondering why the hell I wasnt dead. Sure with Exodus it tells you their structure, that is still a huge increase in health, i really dont mind it as long as gal isnt getting gimped on shield and armor bonus : )
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.12.24 23:33:00 -
[610]
To everyone whining that Gallente are getting the shaft, have you even looked at the numbers? not only does everyone get a 100% increase to their shields and armor (in total) gallente get an EXTRA 200% bonus to structure, 300% more structure, not going to matter? give me a break! So many times in my taranis have I fought another interceptor and won the fight with my in half my structure and the enemy messaging me wondering why the hell I wasnt dead. Sure with Exodus it tells you their structure, that is still a huge increase in health, i really dont mind it as long as gal isnt getting gimped on shield and armor bonus : )
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Percivs
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Posted - 2004.12.24 23:38:00 -
[611]
Edited by: Percivs on 24/12/2004 23:46:46
Originally by: HitGirl
here is a small suggestion?
Amarr: 200%Armor 150%Structure
Caldari: 100%Shield 50%Armor 50%Structure
Gallente: 75%Shield 75%Armor 250%Structure
Minmatar: 75%Shield 75%Armor 150%Structure
 Amarrfanboi
How is this not more in favor of Amarr than the present proposal?
Amarr Armor tanks (assuming 5k armor, now has 15k armor), vs Minmatar (assuming 5k shield, now has 8750) which is forced to Shield tank ineffectively due to insufficient med slots (compared to Amarr low slots) and because shield tanking is mathmatically less effective than armor tanking (cap relay 1s reduce max cap HP to get cap recharge rate bonus where Armor tanking does not suffer the same penalty.)
woot, Amarr now 2x as effective as Minmatar.
Edit: Typos
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"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Percivs
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Posted - 2004.12.24 23:38:00 -
[612]
Edited by: Percivs on 24/12/2004 23:46:46
Originally by: HitGirl
here is a small suggestion?
Amarr: 200%Armor 150%Structure
Caldari: 100%Shield 50%Armor 50%Structure
Gallente: 75%Shield 75%Armor 250%Structure
Minmatar: 75%Shield 75%Armor 150%Structure
Amarrfanboi
How is this not more in favor of Amarr than the present proposal?
Amarr Armor tanks (assuming 5k armor, now has 15k armor), vs Minmatar (assuming 5k shield, now has 8750) which is forced to Shield tank ineffectively due to insufficient med slots (compared to Amarr low slots) and because shield tanking is mathmatically less effective than armor tanking (cap relay 1s reduce max cap HP to get cap recharge rate bonus where Armor tanking does not suffer the same penalty.)
woot, Amarr now 2x as effective as Minmatar.
Edit: Typos
---
"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Percivs
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Posted - 2004.12.24 23:41:00 -
[613]
Originally by: John McCreedy
.
.
.
Isn't the idea behind this to compensate for Tech 2 weapons? If a Raven can 1 vs 1 an Appoc atm with the right set up, a Raven with Tech 2 missiles will be able to solo an Appoc with the same setup. If this is the case, it would probably be a good idea to increase the percentages beyond compensation of T2 weapons in order to make combat last longer.
Can you just vote to nerf the dmg to TL1 guns instead? I think that would have less impact to the balance of the game and would extend combat for TL1-to-TL1 engagements.
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"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Percivs
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Posted - 2004.12.24 23:41:00 -
[614]
Originally by: John McCreedy
.
.
.
Isn't the idea behind this to compensate for Tech 2 weapons? If a Raven can 1 vs 1 an Appoc atm with the right set up, a Raven with Tech 2 missiles will be able to solo an Appoc with the same setup. If this is the case, it would probably be a good idea to increase the percentages beyond compensation of T2 weapons in order to make combat last longer.
Can you just vote to nerf the dmg to TL1 guns instead? I think that would have less impact to the balance of the game and would extend combat for TL1-to-TL1 engagements.
---
"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.12.25 00:45:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Nybbas
So many times in my taranis have I fought another interceptor and won the fight with my in half my structure and the enemy messaging me wondering why the hell I wasnt dead.
Good for you. Tarranis is not megathron tho.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.12.25 00:45:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Nybbas
So many times in my taranis have I fought another interceptor and won the fight with my in half my structure and the enemy messaging me wondering why the hell I wasnt dead.
Good for you. Tarranis is not megathron tho.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
JoCool
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Posted - 2004.12.25 02:04:00 -
[617]
I like the idea of structure if it is balanced by effective hitpoint percentage.. with the Gallente having more *effective* hitpoints as a whole to compensate for this in the end. Make it an advantage with a penalty.
An idea to support this would be to allow Armor Repairers to switch to Hull Repair mode - thus a Megathron or other armor tanks can repair the structure after combat.
Stay creative, diversification is the best ;)
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.12.25 02:04:00 -
[618]
I like the idea of structure if it is balanced by effective hitpoint percentage.. with the Gallente having more *effective* hitpoints as a whole to compensate for this in the end. Make it an advantage with a penalty.
An idea to support this would be to allow Armor Repairers to switch to Hull Repair mode - thus a Megathron or other armor tanks can repair the structure after combat.
Stay creative, diversification is the best ;)
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Digiblast
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Posted - 2004.12.25 02:51:00 -
[619]
Just Add new ships that have these Extra Shield/armor/Strugture
IS that so DAMN HARD????????????
The game is getting so damn boring because there are so few ships!
Atleast the bigger types and give us better haulers also....
And Talking about Balance can't u nerf the Lasers if u add the extra armor on the amarr f*****...!!!
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Digiblast
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Posted - 2004.12.25 02:51:00 -
[620]
Just Add new ships that have these Extra Shield/armor/Strugture
IS that so DAMN HARD????????????
The game is getting so damn boring because there are so few ships!
Atleast the bigger types and give us better haulers also....
And Talking about Balance can't u nerf the Lasers if u add the extra armor on the amarr f*****...!!!
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2004.12.25 05:20:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Percivs
Edited by: Percivs on 24/12/2004 23:46:46
Originally by: HitGirl
here is a small suggestion?
Amarr: 200%Armor 150%Structure
Caldari: 100%Shield 50%Armor 50%Structure
Gallente: 75%Shield 75%Armor 250%Structure
Minmatar: 75%Shield 75%Armor 150%Structure
Amarrfanboi
How is this not more in favor of Amarr than the present proposal?
Amarr Armor tanks (assuming 5k armor, now has 15k armor), vs Minmatar (assuming 5k shield, now has 8750) which is forced to Shield tank ineffectively due to insufficient med slots (compared to Amarr low slots) and because shield tanking is mathmatically less effective than armor tanking (cap relay 1s reduce max cap HP to get cap recharge rate bonus where Armor tanking does not suffer the same penalty.)
woot, Amarr now 2x as effective as Minmatar.
Edit: Typos
I won't comment on the first part of your post, but I have 3 questions.
1) You actually use Cap Relay's?
2) Have you forgotten shields have a natural recharge rate, and armor does not?
3) You actually use Cap Relay's?
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2004.12.25 05:20:00 -
[622]
Originally by: Percivs
Edited by: Percivs on 24/12/2004 23:46:46
Originally by: HitGirl
here is a small suggestion?
Amarr: 200%Armor 150%Structure
Caldari: 100%Shield 50%Armor 50%Structure
Gallente: 75%Shield 75%Armor 250%Structure
Minmatar: 75%Shield 75%Armor 150%Structure
Amarrfanboi
How is this not more in favor of Amarr than the present proposal?
Amarr Armor tanks (assuming 5k armor, now has 15k armor), vs Minmatar (assuming 5k shield, now has 8750) which is forced to Shield tank ineffectively due to insufficient med slots (compared to Amarr low slots) and because shield tanking is mathmatically less effective than armor tanking (cap relay 1s reduce max cap HP to get cap recharge rate bonus where Armor tanking does not suffer the same penalty.)
woot, Amarr now 2x as effective as Minmatar.
Edit: Typos
I won't comment on the first part of your post, but I have 3 questions.
1) You actually use Cap Relay's?
2) Have you forgotten shields have a natural recharge rate, and armor does not?
3) You actually use Cap Relay's?
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.25 07:23:00 -
[623]
the reason why this change is simple. We got extra large wepons coming and got tech 2 ammo no ones whats to see a bs go down in 2 shots
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.25 07:23:00 -
[624]
the reason why this change is simple. We got extra large wepons coming and got tech 2 ammo no ones whats to see a bs go down in 2 shots
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2004.12.25 10:28:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I won't comment on the first part of your post, but I have 3 questions.
1) You actually use Cap Relay's?
2) Have you forgotten shields have a natural recharge rate, and armor does not?
3) You actually use Cap Relay's?
1) He cant use caprelays, even if he had free lowslots
2) The natural recharge rate wont save you in a battle (unless you try to make a natural recharge tank o_0 )
3) even without the apoc shipbonus, the apoc can use 2-3 meds and 2-3 lows for caprecharge items, this way it will always recharge faster then a shield who literally has only pdu's or has to sacrify medslots for caprecharge purpose.
The original poster also stressed out the "imbalance" in giving 1 race 100% "usefull" i.e. hardened hps while spreading the hps on both armor and shield for another.
Noone tanks shield and armor so he will clearly have a disadvantage as half of the hps die quicker under fire.
All in all ive so far in this whole thread not read a single "pro" argument for the change, if we exclude "you can better npc". What good will it do to battles and specifically to which kind of battles (fleet - gank - duel - small/skirmish) ?
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2004.12.25 10:28:00 -
[626]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I won't comment on the first part of your post, but I have 3 questions.
1) You actually use Cap Relay's?
2) Have you forgotten shields have a natural recharge rate, and armor does not?
3) You actually use Cap Relay's?
1) He cant use caprelays, even if he had free lowslots
2) The natural recharge rate wont save you in a battle (unless you try to make a natural recharge tank o_0 )
3) even without the apoc shipbonus, the apoc can use 2-3 meds and 2-3 lows for caprecharge items, this way it will always recharge faster then a shield who literally has only pdu's or has to sacrify medslots for caprecharge purpose.
The original poster also stressed out the "imbalance" in giving 1 race 100% "usefull" i.e. hardened hps while spreading the hps on both armor and shield for another.
Noone tanks shield and armor so he will clearly have a disadvantage as half of the hps die quicker under fire.
All in all ive so far in this whole thread not read a single "pro" argument for the change, if we exclude "you can better npc". What good will it do to battles and specifically to which kind of battles (fleet - gank - duel - small/skirmish) ?
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KompleX
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Posted - 2004.12.25 12:54:00 -
[627]
I say just leave the ships armor/shield/struct as it is, messing with it will cause a hell of a lot of unexpected problems. Is it really needed in the first place? I don't see alot of whining about ships having to little hp...
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KompleX
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Posted - 2004.12.25 12:54:00 -
[628]
I say just leave the ships armor/shield/struct as it is, messing with it will cause a hell of a lot of unexpected problems. Is it really needed in the first place? I don't see alot of whining about ships having to little hp...
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Leam
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Posted - 2004.12.25 14:42:00 -
[629]
Originally by: KompleX
I say just leave the ships armor/shield/struct as it is, messing with it will cause a hell of a lot of unexpected problems. Is it really needed in the first place? I don't see alot of whining about ships having to little hp...
but we have had long threats about fights ending too quick 
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Leam
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Posted - 2004.12.25 14:42:00 -
[630]
Originally by: KompleX
I say just leave the ships armor/shield/struct as it is, messing with it will cause a hell of a lot of unexpected problems. Is it really needed in the first place? I don't see alot of whining about ships having to little hp...
but we have had long threats about fights ending too quick
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