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TomB
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:42:00 -
[1]
This is currently not on the Test Server (Singularity) for testing - removed for other balance changes that are being tested: projectile upgrades, interceptor upgrades, shield booster upgrades, these need more attention before the HP changes will get into testing.
Dev Blog on ship HP increase can be found here, this thread is for the community to give us feedback on gameplay changes, post issues that might/will occur etc.
Remember before replying; we are looking at problems before we start doing the balance, do not get frustrated at values in the dev blog, its open for posting your thoughts and open discussion on values.
===============================================
Amarrian ships would be getting primary armor bonus, Khanid might get mixed.
Amarr: +10%Shield +80%Armor +75%Structure
Ammatar: +30%Shield +70%Armor +65%Structure
Khanid: +50%Shield +60%Armor +50%Structure
Blood Raiders: +30%Shield +70%Armor +75%Structure
Sanshas Nation: +85%Armor +85%Structure
Caldari shield, we will try and have a look at shield recharge in the way.
Caldari: +80%Shield +10%Armor +50%Structure
Mordus Legion: +70%Shield +30%Armor +60%Structure
Guristas: +85%Shield +40%Structure
Gallente mostly armor as well as Amarr but some might get blend, but all still alot of structure, even if it's useless, why i don't know 
Gallente (Low Slotted): +20%Shield +75%Armor +125%Structure
Gallente (Blend): +50%Shield +60%Armor +100%Structure
Serpentis: +15%Shield +80%Armor +135%Structure
ORE: +85%Armor +145%Structure
Minmatar ships differ for armor/shield tanking usage, as would their hp increases, cyclone for example is better of with more shield, tempest can do both very well etc.
Minmatar (Low Slotted): +30%Shield +70%Armor +40%Structure
Minmatar (Blend): +60%Shield +50%Armor +25%Structure
Angel Cartel: +60%Shield +50%Armor +35%Structure
and trade spams will be deleted as well...
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:42:00 -
[2]
This is currently not on the Test Server (Singularity) for testing - removed for other balance changes that are being tested: projectile upgrades, interceptor upgrades, shield booster upgrades, these need more attention before the HP changes will get into testing.
Dev Blog on ship HP increase can be found here, this thread is for the community to give us feedback on gameplay changes, post issues that might/will occur etc.
Remember before replying; we are looking at problems before we start doing the balance, do not get frustrated at values in the dev blog, its open for posting your thoughts and open discussion on values.
===============================================
Amarrian ships would be getting primary armor bonus, Khanid might get mixed.
Amarr: +10%Shield +80%Armor +75%Structure
Ammatar: +30%Shield +70%Armor +65%Structure
Khanid: +50%Shield +60%Armor +50%Structure
Blood Raiders: +30%Shield +70%Armor +75%Structure
Sanshas Nation: +85%Armor +85%Structure
Caldari shield, we will try and have a look at shield recharge in the way.
Caldari: +80%Shield +10%Armor +50%Structure
Mordus Legion: +70%Shield +30%Armor +60%Structure
Guristas: +85%Shield +40%Structure
Gallente mostly armor as well as Amarr but some might get blend, but all still alot of structure, even if it's useless, why i don't know
Gallente (Low Slotted): +20%Shield +75%Armor +125%Structure
Gallente (Blend): +50%Shield +60%Armor +100%Structure
Serpentis: +15%Shield +80%Armor +135%Structure
ORE: +85%Armor +145%Structure
Minmatar ships differ for armor/shield tanking usage, as would their hp increases, cyclone for example is better of with more shield, tempest can do both very well etc.
Minmatar (Low Slotted): +30%Shield +70%Armor +40%Structure
Minmatar (Blend): +60%Shield +50%Armor +25%Structure
Angel Cartel: +60%Shield +50%Armor +35%Structure
and trade spams will be deleted as well...
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: jukriamrr on 20/12/2004 16:58:49
Edited by: jukriamrr on 20/12/2004 16:56:19
(no spam inside)
Long time no read from you tomB! 
Why the 300% increase on the Gallente ship's structure? Don't they already have more than enough? I'm sure Gallente pilots would prefer extra armor.
Then again, could you explain the rationale behind those numbers? (RP-wise, maybe)
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: jukriamrr on 20/12/2004 16:58:49
Edited by: jukriamrr on 20/12/2004 16:56:19
(no spam inside)
Long time no read from you tomB!
Why the 300% increase on the Gallente ship's structure? Don't they already have more than enough? I'm sure Gallente pilots would prefer extra armor.
Then again, could you explain the rationale behind those numbers? (RP-wise, maybe)
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:56:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Arud on 20/12/2004 17:08:18
Amarr: 100%Armor 200%Structure
Caldari: 100%Shield 100%Structure
Gallente: 25%Shield 75%Armor 300%Structure
Minmatar: 75%Shield 25%Armor 150%Structure
Edited by: Arud on 20/12/2004 17:00:34
ok, guess the blogitself answered my npc question
sounds good, but I will be killed for saying this, could amarr get 125% armor boost and -25% shield boost because they are so utterly heavily geared towards armor tanking
edt. added the stats
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.12.20 16:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Arud on 20/12/2004 17:08:18
Amarr: 100%Armor 200%Structure
Caldari: 100%Shield 100%Structure
Gallente: 25%Shield 75%Armor 300%Structure
Minmatar: 75%Shield 25%Armor 150%Structure
Edited by: Arud on 20/12/2004 17:00:34
ok, guess the blogitself answered my npc question
sounds good, but I will be killed for saying this, could amarr get 125% armor boost and -25% shield boost because they are so utterly heavily geared towards armor tanking
edt. added the stats
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Artegg
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:01:00 -
[7]
"Gallente: 25%Shield 75%Armor 300%Structure"
I do not really see the point of increasing Structure hit points. Structure is a joke TBH and as a Gallente i find this rather annoying that this what we will recieve forget adding more to the Structure add it somewhere else please.
I will test it but on paper this looks silly
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Artegg
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:01:00 -
[8]
"Gallente: 25%Shield 75%Armor 300%Structure"
I do not really see the point of increasing Structure hit points. Structure is a joke TBH and as a Gallente i find this rather annoying that this what we will recieve forget adding more to the Structure add it somewhere else please.
I will test it but on paper this looks silly
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:04:00 -
[9]
Making combat longer will seriously impact the ability of setups that rely on cap injectors with cap charges (*cough*blasterthron*cough*) to compete with setups that use natural cap regeneration (*cough*amarr*cough*).
 Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:04:00 -
[10]
Making combat longer will seriously impact the ability of setups that rely on cap injectors with cap charges (*cough*blasterthron*cough*) to compete with setups that use natural cap regeneration (*cough*amarr*cough*).
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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flummox
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:13:00 -
[11]
Edited by: flummox on 20/12/2004 17:16:18
possible issue:
check new HP againts sentry gun effectiveness to prevent a free day of empire-ganking. make sure sentries take out perps with th
e desired efficiency...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:13:00 -
[12]
Edited by: flummox on 20/12/2004 17:16:18
possible issue:
check new HP againts sentry gun effectiveness to prevent a free day of empire-ganking. make sure sentries take out perps with th
e desired efficiency...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:23:00 -
[13]
"Why do you guys want the Gallenteans to have so much structure? It's the most useless thing ever."
You just answered your own question, it's very Gallentean to waste resources on something useless and lots of it to boot. ;s
j/k... the changes seem quite evened out -- each race gets total boost of 100% to shield/armour, and then secondary boost to structure, with Gallente receiving the most of it. Nothing to complain imo, gives you more chance to warp out and save your ship when things go wrong...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:23:00 -
[14]
"Why do you guys want the Gallenteans to have so much structure? It's the most useless thing ever."
You just answered your own question, it's very Gallentean to waste resources on something useless and lots of it to boot. ;s
j/k... the changes seem quite evened out -- each race gets total boost of 100% to shield/armour, and then secondary boost to structure, with Gallente receiving the most of it. Nothing to complain imo, gives you more chance to warp out and save your ship when things go wrong...
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Skye North
looks like a fair deal to me, only minmatar might feel a bit left behind. as a PvE player i definitely look forward to those changes
What minmatar get the shaft? man that never happens, are you sure? did one of the developers get dumped by a minmatar girlfriend or something? 
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Skye North
looks like a fair deal to me, only minmatar might feel a bit left behind. as a PvE player i definitely look forward to those changes
What minmatar get the shaft? man that never happens, are you sure? did one of the developers get dumped by a minmatar girlfriend or something?
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:25:00 -
[17]
I understand the motivation for these changes, but they are not so good imho.
first of all, more hitpoints means that you have to be able to tank damage and fire longer, meaning you need more cap. Megathron wont have a chance of taking down tanked raven or apoc before it runs out of cap. The 300% structure is not an issue, since you will be out of cap shooting your blasters (which happen to take more cap then mega pulse lasers) and tanking with your puny cap recharge.
Rather give gallente less structure, and increase in cap recharge rate.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:25:00 -
[18]
I understand the motivation for these changes, but they are not so good imho.
first of all, more hitpoints means that you have to be able to tank damage and fire longer, meaning you need more cap. Megathron wont have a chance of taking down tanked raven or apoc before it runs out of cap. The 300% structure is not an issue, since you will be out of cap shooting your blasters (which happen to take more cap then mega pulse lasers) and tanking with your puny cap recharge.
Rather give gallente less structure, and increase in cap recharge rate.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:25:00 -
[19]
give min 75%/75%/100% maybe??
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:25:00 -
[20]
give min 75%/75%/100% maybe??
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:31:00 -
[21]
Ive only been flying minmatar ships for 5 months (never a battleship, just fancy frigs and cruisers) and ive never managed to tank my shields as effectively as I can tank my armour.
I can attest to the Amarr's armour tanking ability though Tough sonna bIItches. ;)
Give them a -100% armour, then ill be a happy freedom fighter.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:31:00 -
[22]
Ive only been flying minmatar ships for 5 months (never a battleship, just fancy frigs and cruisers) and ive never managed to tank my shields as effectively as I can tank my armour.
I can attest to the Amarr's armour tanking ability though Tough sonna bIItches. ;)
Give them a -100% armour, then ill be a happy freedom fighter.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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evetalon
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:33:00 -
[23]
why make changes to battleships now?
Id rather see such changes in the more advanced battleships such as the mini-titans. Then you can change whatever you like and leave the BSs in tact the way they have been for so long. As of noy almost every BS is properly balanced if things worked correctly. Such as defenders. Or drones.
If you guys would put some time and effort into fixing these small things, it would make certain setups on other ships more possible. By fixing the defender problems and getting drones to attack missles again, you might be onto something. Otherwise even with these balancing changes, the missile boats will still be the best. Missiles cost dirt to buy now so there are no more reasons not to use them.
Sure there are other ships which can deal alot of damage but are susceptable to EW. Such as the arma. There is no logical defense against missles and if target jammed the ship becomes uterly useless. If you target jam a raven or scorp you can still use FoFs. This in turn makes the caldari ships nearly impossible to jam.
end rant.
-----------------------
[LIH]Evetalon
Corporate CEO
Four Horsemen [LIH] |
evetalon
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:33:00 -
[24]
why make changes to battleships now?
Id rather see such changes in the more advanced battleships such as the mini-titans. Then you can change whatever you like and leave the BSs in tact the way they have been for so long. As of noy almost every BS is properly balanced if things worked correctly. Such as defenders. Or drones.
If you guys would put some time and effort into fixing these small things, it would make certain setups on other ships more possible. By fixing the defender problems and getting drones to attack missles again, you might be onto something. Otherwise even with these balancing changes, the missile boats will still be the best. Missiles cost dirt to buy now so there are no more reasons not to use them.
Sure there are other ships which can deal alot of damage but are susceptable to EW. Such as the arma. There is no logical defense against missles and if target jammed the ship becomes uterly useless. If you target jam a raven or scorp you can still use FoFs. This in turn makes the caldari ships nearly impossible to jam.
end rant.
-----------------------
[LIH]Evetalon
Corporate CEO
Four Horsemen [LIH] |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:35:00 -
[25]
Afterthought.
Doubled shield size = doubled shield recharge. This might make passive shield tanking interesting...
Oh, and Scorpion with 13.3k hp of base shield looks scary. ^,^
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:35:00 -
[26]
Afterthought.
Doubled shield size = doubled shield recharge. This might make passive shield tanking interesting...
Oh, and Scorpion with 13.3k hp of base shield looks scary. ^,^
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Oveur
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:43:00 -
[27]
Just to keep this thread in context and to answer the "Why are you changing this there is so much else that needs changing/fixing/making etc." here is my previous forum post on the matter:
Originally by: Oveur
Since there were so many threads asking for nerfs or complaining about nerfs I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint everyone. We won't be nerfing or boosting anyone until next year.
Our current agenda is as follows. Some or all might make it into next patch which is scheduled for 2005:
- Missile Overhaul
- EW Overhaul
- Fix some of the projectile turrets
- Tech Level 2 Missiles, Launchers, Drones and EW.
- Increased Hitpoints on all ships
- Tech Level 2 ships and tweaks to them
It's on the agenda. None of it has been decided or when it gets deployed, that all depends on how satisfied we will be with the changes and how much time we have besides fixing.
Until then, we can all have a merry christmas and happy new year!
To make this even more clear:
The people that do balancing and content creation don't do programming and hence don't fix bugs
The people that do programming fix bugs and create underlying systems that enable content creation.
Hence, working in parallel on these two sepearate things is quite possible 
So, lets get back to feedback on the changes that are proposed here and keep them seperate from other issues.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Oveur
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:43:00 -
[28]
Just to keep this thread in context and to answer the "Why are you changing this there is so much else that needs changing/fixing/making etc." here is my previous forum post on the matter:
Originally by: Oveur
Since there were so many threads asking for nerfs or complaining about nerfs I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint everyone. We won't be nerfing or boosting anyone until next year.
Our current agenda is as follows. Some or all might make it into next patch which is scheduled for 2005:
- Missile Overhaul
- EW Overhaul
- Fix some of the projectile turrets
- Tech Level 2 Missiles, Launchers, Drones and EW.
- Increased Hitpoints on all ships
- Tech Level 2 ships and tweaks to them
It's on the agenda. None of it has been decided or when it gets deployed, that all depends on how satisfied we will be with the changes and how much time we have besides fixing.
Until then, we can all have a merry christmas and happy new year!
To make this even more clear:
The people that do balancing and content creation don't do programming and hence don't fix bugs
The people that do programming fix bugs and create underlying systems that enable content creation.
Hence, working in parallel on these two sepearate things is quite possible
So, lets get back to feedback on the changes that are proposed here and keep them seperate from other issues.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
BRUCELLA 2
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:50:00 -
[29]
Quote:
This does only affect player ships, NPC's would not get this change.
When i read this, i think the mission will be more easy.... it's sad :'(
I like the difficulty of the mission at this time
HFB - Horizon Fontaine Blanche
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BRUCELLA 2
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Posted - 2004.12.20 17:50:00 -
[30]
Quote:
This does only affect player ships, NPC's would not get this change.
When i read this, i think the mission will be more easy.... it's sad :'(
I like the difficulty of the mission at this time
HFB - Horizon Fontaine Blanche
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