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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
Originally by: GondriA relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
I think that is the point. If it's too many clicks, you're doing too many colonies on too many characters.
For one character with 5 colonies, I've got about 40 extractors. I restart them three times a day. Not overwhelming, and I make a solid profit at it.
Count me in the group that believes that you not being able to do this on 5 different alts without going nuts is by design. And good design, at that. Tone down the OCD a bit and it gets a lot more fun.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:17:00 -
[32]
This is a game, fun has nothing to do with it
As i said in the second post, i am fully aware i did bring this upon myself. However i do not see why PI should be limited down by making it unnecessary difficult to maintain in a larger scale.
Yes it should be hard to make a lot of money doing PI (as hard as any other "career" in EVE), but making us click our brains out is in my humble opinion the wrong way to restrain the outcome. It is also strange to me how CCP can present it as a passive income when so many capsulers are in dire need of the products (eg. POS Fuel). So in a way many are actually being forced into PI due to the need of resources.
It might be just me, but PI is as i see it not at all what CCP said it would be (newbiefriendly, passive and totally optional to all).
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:01:00 -
[33]
Why SHOULDN'T it be harder to maintain in scale? The vast majority of things in the game are. Running five ships in different complexes at the same time is harder. Mining with five ships at the same time is harder. Maintaining 5 POSs is harder. Trying to run trade routes with 5 characters is harder. There's a solid case that features which aren't harder (such as research point collection) are an aberration which need to be fixed.
Are there other options to provide the limitation? Certainly. But most of them are either MORE work and/or have been done. They certainly could have required outside fuels and materials to keep extractors running. It would have provided the same limit, but required even more effort and just been POSs all over again.
Let's consider your three points on what PI should be.
Newbie-friendly: How can you even suggest that it's not? You can be fully involved in PI with only a few days skill training and less investment than most cruisers. It's probably the newbie-ist friendly feature in EVE.
Passive: This is entirely your choice. Long cycle times don't produce as much, but they are certainly passive. IMHO they nailed it - you can choose your level of involvement based on desired profit.
Totally optional: Suggesting it's not option is pretty much nuts. Sorry. So long as there are sources for the materials you need, you can buy them without setting up your own colonies. By the standard you seem to be applying, mining is non-optional for everyone in the game, because everyone needs minerals.
Is it a perfect system? No, I don't think so. Not by a long shot. But there's a very fine line to walk in creating a system to allow hands-off production. It may not be the new selling point of EVE, but it's a pretty acceptable system for what it is. It only becomes unacceptable when you move outside the intended constraints.
And that's part of the problem. People are completely wound up over how the constraints were implemented, rather than addressing the constraints themselves. If you want to have a debate over whether you should be able to have 25 colonies all producing ISK for you for weeks while you don't even log in, then fine - have that debate. But arguing that all the clicks are bad because they mean you can't run 25 colonies is missing the point.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:45:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ulstan on 06/08/2010 18:47:46
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
Originally by: GondriA relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
I think that is the point. If it's too many clicks, you're doing too many colonies on too many characters.
For one character with 5 colonies, I've got about 40 extractors. I restart them three times a day. Not overwhelming, and I make a solid profit at it.
Count me in the group that believes that you not being able to do this on 5 different alts without going nuts is by design. And good design, at that. Tone down the OCD a bit and it gets a lot more fun.
I agree that it's not real bad with just one character. I think not being able to run 3 alts on 4 diff accounts on PI easily is by design - it's passive income. It NEEDS to have a limit to how well it scales or you break the economy utterly.
If CCP lets you restart all the extractors on a planet with one click, they'll need to add in something else so a single person doesn't just manage 40 planets passively...I don't have any other good alternatives to the click fest that have the same effect of not being terribly onerous on one person using PI 'as intended' while curtailing people trying to run it on 3 alts per account for multiple accounts.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Verkala Ven Why SHOULDN'T it be harder to maintain in scale? The vast majority of things in the game are. Running five ships in different complexes at the same time is harder. Mining with five ships at the same time is harder. Maintaining 5 POSs is harder. Trying to run trade routes with 5 characters is harder. There's a solid case that features which aren't harder (such as research point collection) are an aberration which need to be fixed.
You missunderstood me (or i am terrible to explain). I did mean it is a lot more tidious work to maintain the same level of income in PI than in other areas like missions, trading or mining. (yes i know it is by design, i just dont agree that it should be like that. Of course is should be harder to maintain with 5 chars than with one.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Let's consider your three points on what PI should be.
Newbie-friendly: How can you even suggest that it's not? You can be fully involved in PI with only a few days skill training and less investment than most cruisers. It's probably the newbie-ist friendly feature in EVE.
It is not newbiefriendly due to the reason i dont believe any newcomer to EVE is gonna go for PI due to the clickfest. Newcomers wanna learn EVE and fly spaceships (i believe). And the point are not mine on how it should be, it is CCP's. My point are more or less the opposite.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Passive: This is entirely your choice. Long cycle times don't produce as much, but they are certainly passive. IMHO they nailed it - you can choose your level of involvement based on desired profit.
I agree fully that is is indeed working as intended. Im just not agreeing with it. I believe PI should be able to yield better profit if one is interested in using many hours on it. I dont see why it should be any less rewarding than other "careers" (based on time/effort used).
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Totally optional: Suggesting it's not option is pretty much nuts. Sorry. So long as there are sources for the materials you need, you can buy them without setting up your own colonies. By the standard you seem to be applying, mining is non-optional for everyone in the game, because everyone needs minerals.
I was trying to say that it is not optional since the products are needed by so many. Have you not read all the threads from capsuleers shutting down towers due to far to expencive POS-fuel? Yes they can easily create own fuel.. but a lot of them dont want to use PI. Though it is optional (as everything else is) there is a need for someone to do it.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Is it a perfect system? No, I don't think so. Not by a long shot. But there's a very fine line to walk in creating a system to allow hands-off production. It may not be the new selling point of EVE, but it's a pretty acceptable system for what it is. It only becomes unacceptable when you move outside the intended constraints.
And that's part of the problem. People are completely wound up over how the constraints were implemented, rather than addressing the constraints themselves. If you want to have a debate over whether you should be able to have 25 colonies all producing ISK for you for weeks while you don't even log in, then fine - have that debate. But arguing that all the clicks are bad because they mean you can't run 25 colonies is missing the point.
I never said one should be able to not log in for a week and have 25 colonies making gazillions.. I said it should be as rewarding as the other careers in time/effort spendt. eg.
I am not complaining because i cant be bothered doing some hard work on PI, i am complaining mostly about all the clicking needed. I have no good solution to this, but i do reserve my right to discuss the matter.
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Terbulus
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Posted - 2010.08.06 21:12:00 -
[36]
I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 21:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Terbulus I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
Omg you are totally right.. Everyone that cant make 600 million isk per hour should definitely quit EVE since that is obviously the goal here. How come i didnt think of that first..
You sir are a genius... a beautiful mind
If you actually bothered to read more than only the last post you might have seen i have stated mining is boring and that i dont do it. PI on the other hand, i find quite fun to fiddle with (+ missions, exploration, trading).
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Terbulus
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Posted - 2010.08.06 22:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp ]
If you actually bothered to read more than only the last post
I didn't read the last post, I didnt read any of this thread at all. Ive read about a dozen threads already with nearly the exact same topic. Im pretty sure my previous post is an accurate response to any complaints you might have about PI.
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Mocat
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Posted - 2010.08.13 10:57:00 -
[39]
The PI clicking fest is terrible. Could CCP provide PI with a button to restart extractors with 1 button. I normally set all extractors on same time frames so 1 click to restart them all would be very nice. Like it is now, its horrible and turns me completely off.
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Ja'Dur Deathwalker
Minmatar Rookies Academy Rookie Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.13 12:26:00 -
[40]
until i ripped everything up and moved, (not restarted yet) i was doing only 3 clicks per extractor per day, Double Click extractor - Click period for extract - click apply -
If you have set up the routing already you dont need to change it
Trying to live beyond 30 days without being podded again.... |
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:37:00 -
[41]
Anyone making less than 140 million per day with 23h cycles on a character is doing it wrong.
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Feikno
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Posted - 2010.08.13 15:31:00 -
[42]
Now, not to say Planetary Interaction isn't a bit much at times, but I do find it specifically funny with how auto run all of Eve is, that now that there is actually something to do, people are complaining it doesn't run itself like other facets of the game.
I stop to think how much I 'click' in other games, and Eve really does have minimal clicks.
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Zelman Axe
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Posted - 2010.08.14 03:05:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Zelman Axe on 14/08/2010 03:08:07 go get laid man you need a life... wow I'm sorry for you. I did PI for 2...3 days and got feedup with the PI design. CCP devs were on crack when they designed it
they should allow you to group simitar extractors for the same planet goo and then you click once on the group and you're done instead of clicking on every damn single extractor it's just insane.
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp I had my fifth (5) alt skilled up for PI 2 days ago. So i have 5 chars with 5 planets each and i am running 5h cycle on 20 of them.
It is on average 17 extractors on each planet (2-3p rocessors, 1 launchpad), exept for the 2 manufacture-planets i have (1 for P1 -> P2 and one for P2 -> P4).
At the start of all this madness i set out to test...test..PI Sudddenly i find myself crying in a corner after spend nearly 1billion isk (counting buyorders not filled) and clicky-finger on strike! Well... the money does not bother me, it is more where it came from. But the clicking and the INSANELY BRIGHT LIGHT from gasplanets that has caused me to have headaces EVERY NIGHT!!!
I like PI a lot (what it can become, not as is) but the clicking and all the other anoying gameruining stuff needs some serious tweaking.
To sum up:
25 planets 17 extraactors on each (425 pcs) 4 clicks each extractor 3-4 times a day.
= 6800 clicks each day (On reseting the extractors alone).
Yes.. it is my own choice, but i wish CCP could make a litle more userfriendly
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.08.14 18:33:00 -
[44]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 14/08/2010 18:34:01
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
Originally by: GondriA relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
More cliks , more income whats wrong with that ?
Excpet thats dull , but thats not a pionit of discussion here.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.14 18:43:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 14/08/2010 18:42:47 qrawerfqewtfarerwer
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Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
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Posted - 2010.08.14 23:09:00 -
[46]
People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.14 23:21:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
2 five hour cycles extract more than one 23 hour one. do the math
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GondriA
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Posted - 2010.08.15 01:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
2 five hour cycles extract more than one 23 hour one. do the math
Dont forget to do the 5 hour cycle depends if u have the time to doit:p
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Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
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Posted - 2010.08.15 07:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
2 five hour cycles extract more than one 23 hour one. do the math
Say hello to boredom and possibly RSI.
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Aesynil
Caldari The Unit...
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Posted - 2010.08.15 09:12:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Aesynil on 15/08/2010 09:13:31
Originally by: Terbulus I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
I believe this poster is saying that if you translate his hourly wage into GTC's, he would be making 600M an hour, which would mean he makes something around $35 an hour at his job.
Or put it this way. A decent job that a high school kid could get would pay around $8-9 an hour, hopefully. Maybe less, but meh. In four hours, you can make enough real cash to buy one GTC, which sells for 600M ISK. Therefore, you would be making 150M ISK an hour. If your choices are A) Tedious RL job or B) Tedious in-game task that you dislike, why not go with the one that 'makes' more ISK?
The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry. |
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.15 17:09:00 -
[51]
Each to his own really, im not for spending my RL cash on something i can make while enjoying a game. iPlus, id much rather do something boring online than become a dumb ass wage slave.
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Ambaseter Doggy
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Posted - 2010.08.16 02:19:00 -
[52]
Why not make the 1 button only apply to 23 or 37 hour cycles. that way u can still make more with the other 1s but there still active. Agent texas is a bit of a badass |
Soldarius
Independent Coalition OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.16 04:41:00 -
[53]
I have one character and 4 colonies. Even that relatively small amount of clicking is pretty annoying. Haven't touched it in weeks. The passive income available even from POS fuel is hampered by the inordinate amount of clicking required to keep extractors running, and the fixed processing rates of processors.
Solution: We can group weapons, why not extractors? Perhaps not the entire planet. But automate the process a bit. Group like extractors, set them for the same rates, and have at it.
Better Solution: Have different extractors that mine at different rates rather than the current click fest of clicking a scan menu, then clicking the rates shown. The whole scanning thing is silly anyway. Its always the same amount every scan. No more clicking! We have crystals for mining lasers. Why not crystals for mining extractors? Make them more like weapons. Would be nice to group extractors with same crystals (ammo). Make PI like the rest of the game. "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." |
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