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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2010.08.03 07:15:00 -
[1]
Hard to understand how anyone could have playtested the click-fest maintenance of planetary structures and not have objected. Hope there are some improvements coming, since much of PI is actually interesting game.
Until then, here are some ideas to not go bananas with the clicking:
1. Set a limit of how many structures you will build. My personal limit is five structures, at present. (I.e., no PI for alts). No need to train Interplanetary Consolidation past level IV. Probably could have stopped at level III. Other players will have different tolerances for numbers of clicks.
2. Plant your limited number of structures in losec or nullsec. With careful scouting, the extraction rate is high enough that you may be able to limit the number of extractors to each planet to eight, or at most ten. Even fewer at good null sec sites. This will also increase the amount of isk you get for the time invested.
3. Do not be too anal about meeting some tight schedule to restart the extractors. They will still be there when you get to it.
4. Just forget it. PI is not a fantastic isk machine, anyway.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.03 09:29:00 -
[2]
I had my fifth (5) alt skilled up for PI 2 days ago. So i have 5 chars with 5 planets each and i am running 5h cycle on 20 of them.
It is on average 17 extractors on each planet (2-3p rocessors, 1 launchpad), exept for the 2 manufacture-planets i have (1 for P1 -> P2 and one for P2 -> P4).
At the start of all this madness i set out to test...test..PI 
Sudddenly i find myself crying in a corner after spend nearly 1billion isk (counting buyorders not filled) and clicky-finger on strike!
Well... the money does not bother me, it is more where it came from. But the clicking and the INSANELY BRIGHT LIGHT from gasplanets that has caused me to have headaces EVERY NIGHT!!!
I like PI a lot (what it can become, not as is) but the clicking and all the other anoying gameruining stuff needs some serious tweaking.
To sum up:
25 planets
17 extraactors on each (425 pcs)
4 clicks each extractor
3-4 times a day.
= 6800 clicks each day (On reseting the extractors alone).
Yes.. it is my own choice, but i wish CCP could make a litle more userfriendly 
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Bernard Schuyler
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
I had my fifth (5) alt skilled up for PI 2 days ago. So i have 5 chars with 5 planets each and i am running 5h cycle on 20 of them.
It is on average 17 extractors on each planet (2-3p rocessors, 1 launchpad), exept for the 2 manufacture-planets i have (1 for P1 -> P2 and one for P2 -> P4).
At the start of all this madness i set out to test...test..PI
Sudddenly i find myself crying in a corner after spend nearly 1billion isk (counting buyorders not filled) and clicky-finger on strike!
Well... the money does not bother me, it is more where it came from. But the clicking and the INSANELY BRIGHT LIGHT from gasplanets that has caused me to have headaces EVERY NIGHT!!!
I like PI a lot (what it can become, not as is) but the clicking and all the other anoying gameruining stuff needs some serious tweaking.
To sum up:
25 planets
17 extraactors on each (425 pcs)
4 clicks each extractor
3-4 times a day.
= 6800 clicks each day (On reseting the extractors alone).
Yes.. it is my own choice, but i wish CCP could make a litle more userfriendly
Not that I will disagree with the sentiment that the system could be improved... But your own example is kind of not the best to judge it by. You are doing FIVE characters a day. That would not be entirely different than someone complaining that combat should be streamlined so that they could 5 box better :-p
The thing is, honestly... If they made it easy to do 5, wouldn't someone be here complaining that doing 10 characters a day was too time consuming? 
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Commander Nina
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Posted - 2010.08.03 14:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
Not that I will disagree with the sentiment that the system could be improved... But your own example is kind of not the best to judge it by. You are doing FIVE characters a day. That would not be entirely different than someone complaining that combat should be streamlined so that they could 5 box better :-p
The thing is, honestly... If they made it easy to do 5, wouldn't someone be here complaining that doing 10 characters a day was too time consuming?
Eh,
this was just an extrem example to show whats wrong with the system. I am dealing with only 3 stupid planets and 10 extractors each, and it already stresses me. It takes much to much time to restart the extractors. Its plain silly.
My 50cent
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:38:00 -
[5]
well.. yeah, i did bring myself into this mess by using 5 chars 
But i liked PI and wanted to see if it was worth digging in deep. My issue is concerning the level of complexity and unnecessary clicking involved.
If one had the option to reset ones extractors with a simple click would not make me engage 10 more chars into it, but i would enjoy it more (a lot more).
Also... if the intention for CCP was to make this for use with only 1 char, then there would be a serious shortage of certain items (after the removal of NPC-goods).
I know CCP stated PI would not be a major income, but why make it almost impossible to make some profit without killing the players fingers and mouses?
Also i wonder about the idea to launch PI as a newbiefriendly system when any newb getting into it soon will get out of it due to the immense clicking? Dont get me wrong, i dont say PI is boring or ridiculous.. it is just to troublesome!
And by all means (i cant speak for anyone but myself) as a first-timer in EVE.. will you play with dots and pins on eye-killing backgrounds? Or would you fly around in a beautiful spaceship looking at planets, gates, fights etc.. in a beautiful environment?
In my head you are not mentally sane if paying 15$ a month for a internet spaceshipgame (developed true 7 years for spaceships only) and play with PI is what you do.
I do not say that i should only be spending 1 sec with PI a day and make gazillions, but there has to be a middle-road here somewhere.. 
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heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:44:00 -
[6]
I wouldnt say the PI click fest was that bad unless you have alot of chars doing it.
double clicking each extractor twice, once a day or once every three days is not that bad at all.
Every single activity in eve requires alot of clicking or have i been doing something wrong all these years ?
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Strazdas Unstoppable
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:04:00 -
[7]
what i woudl suggest ccp ADD is "export all" "import all" buttons and being able to select all your extractors and set the extraction time for all of thme at once, thus making it 4 clips per planet.
Quote:
4. Just forget it. PI is not a fantastic isk machine, anyway.
i disagree. with current market prices i make 147-290 millions per week from PI only.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: heheheh
Every single activity in eve requires alot of clicking or have i been doing something wrong all these years ?
It is not about the amount of clicks, it is about the amount of *unneccessary* clicks.
Doing a mission requires hundreds of clicks, but many players are perfectly happy running missions because each click involves some kind of decision. Almost none of the clicks in PI involve a decision, they are completely unneccessary and setup up as a artificial barrier.
Click Theory
Having people click the undock button 5 times before you can actually undock would seriously **** people off and discourage them from undocking.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:41:00 -
[9]
The repeated clicking per processor is certainly annoying, but bearable, with just one character running planets. With multiple characters it becomes awful and I can't imagine doing it with 5 different characters.
That could be a deliberate decision by CCP to limit people abusing alts to rack in tons of passive income, but if so, what an insidious way of doing it!
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RandomxDot
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:44:00 -
[10]
IMHO the whole planetary interaction should be far more passive than it is anyways. Your setting up factories, etc etc , even robotic workers should be bright enough to take away over half the clicks that are required. CCP needs to strip down the running of these things to "setup , make delivery routes, start extractors, come back in xx hours to hit launch. The rest of the crap in between is just busy work for CCP to keep people occupied.
I understand that the profits from PI are supposed to be much larger, but comparing it to Research is not uncommon , and lets face it, research is "mission to get to required level for agent, talk to agent, afk for six months, talk to agent , collect cores, profit".
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Seith Silverstein
Something Rotten
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:46:00 -
[11]
I make ~100mil a week with 4 mining planets and a production planet. I run the mining planets on 2-3 5hr extraction cycles every day (2 on weekdays, 3 on weekends), and move it all to my production planet. If I woke up early to get my 3rd cycle in on weekdays (damn you down time!), I'd be making 150mil a week with almost *no* effort. 10 minutes twice a day to restart extractors and 30 minutes twice a week to move things between planets: 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 190 minutes a week. That's 31.5 million ISK per hour of "work". Add that to the fact that you can do other things while it's making you money, and I'd say either keep clicking or shut up.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I am literally the internet
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.08.03 19:18:00 -
[12]
I trained 3 toons. Set up colonies in .4, then moved to .1. Made a few hundred million ISK over a month or so...
Then burned out and just quit.
I didn't delete anything. All the colonies are still there, P1s in the spaceports ready to be exported and picked up.... But, I just can't be bothered to do it.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.08.03 20:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Seith Silverstein
I make ~100mil a week with 4 mining planets and a production planet. I run the mining planets on 2-3 5hr extraction cycles every day (2 on weekdays, 3 on weekends), and move it all to my production planet. If I woke up early to get my 3rd cycle in on weekdays (damn you down time!), I'd be making 150mil a week with almost *no* effort. 10 minutes twice a day to restart extractors and 30 minutes twice a week to move things between planets: 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 190 minutes a week. That's 31.5 million ISK per hour of "work". Add that to the fact that you can do other things while it's making you money, and I'd say either keep clicking or shut up.
that sounds like alot of clickin for little isk.
rather just go run a mission or 2.
--
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
-John Wooden |
Sonkut
Minmatar
The Motley Few
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Posted - 2010.08.04 12:51:00 -
[14]
Yet another moan topic, yes i agree. I've been runing 5 planets from the start and i recently trained an alt to have a further three.
There are means by which to streamline it, there are also means to get a lot more money for overall time spent, if i compared income from overall time spent on PI a week to running say, high sec L4 missions - I get more cash from high sec missions. However it's more for me about playing the systems and understanding how it all works, the payout at the end is just something that makes me happy.
In the first few weeks i earned a stupid amount of ISK from doing PI. now not so much, but it's also fun to delete and rebuild the systems on your planets to see how else you can get good supplies of stuff.
Have fun
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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2010.08.04 16:42:00 -
[15]
There are a handful of players who seem to get a kick out of the tedium of clicking over, and over, and over again. Good for them.
Most players of this game, or any game, do not want to click just for the sake of clicking. Thus, the plethora of "moaners" threads on all the forums.
There is sure no thread labeled, "Why I like all the clicking in PI". Or, "I really need all the finger exercise from clicking". Or, "Why I love clicking and do not have a life".
PI will be fixed. Just a matter of time.
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Milan Nantucket
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Posted - 2010.08.04 17:19:00 -
[16]
Well if they fix PI I hope they fix everything. I am tired of clicking to warp, clicking to jump, clicking to build stuff, clicking to dock, and most importantly clicking pods to blow up... why can't I just have a smart autopilot that does all my **** for me |
Toldain
Gallente
Skyforger
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.08.04 17:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Forge Trader
There are a handful of players who seem to get a kick out of the tedium of clicking over, and over, and over again. Good for them.
Most players of this game, or any game, do not want to click just for the sake of clicking. Thus, the plethora of "moaners" threads on all the forums.
There is sure no thread labeled, "Why I like all the clicking in PI". Or, "I really need all the finger exercise from clicking". Or, "Why I love clicking and do not have a life".
PI will be fixed. Just a matter of time.
I haven't seen too many forum posts of the nature of "I love using my T2 BPO's" or "I love afk cloaking" either. It's kind of contrary to the spirit of EVE to post a thread saying, "I love this aspect of the game and I'm making tons of ISK, and you can too!" Unless you add, "for a small fee..." that is. In fact, one could argue that forums are for moaning. Which is fine.
I have only one character. I run 5 planets, I spend about 15 minutes per day running my planets and I get a pretty decent return for that 15 minutes. That 15 minutes includes picking up goods, mind you.
You can count me as someone who doesn't think PI is particularly broken. If people find it tiresome to do 5 planets on each of 5 characters, my gut reaction is "Great!" Everyone is talking their book, including me.
Sometimes I spend more time on it, thinking about how to rearrange things to be more efficient, but that's fun stuff, yes?
One of the things I like about PI is that it doesn't give an advantage to players with 50 million skill points, or to players with multiple accounts. If you want to do more, you can put in more work. Furthermore, the returns are scaled such that someone with a highly developed character might not find the returns worth the effort. But someone with a lower income earning potential, like me, does.
So, I think it's pretty much working as intended. Clickiness is a distraction. Really, the complaint is about how long it takes to cycle extractors. That time spent is an intended feature of the design. A careful reading of the recent summit minutes shows that.
Honestly, I wonder how many of the complaints are from people trying to make fuel for their technetium moon POSes. For crying out loud, just buy it from the market and spend your time on other stuff that has more income potential. Because if you are that wealthy, those opportunities are surely available to you.
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http://toldaintalks.blogspot.com - Because reading me sure beats working!
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.08.04 17:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ulstan on 04/08/2010 17:42:38
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
well.. yeah, i did bring myself into this mess by using 5 chars
But i liked PI and wanted to see if it was worth digging in deep.
There are many things that are fun and worth doing, but that aren't fun or worth doing with 5 separate characters. I think CCP probably wants to discourage people from having 15 alts on 5 accounts each running 5 planets passively in the background and just easily generating money.
I'm not saying the click fest is a particularly good solution, mind you, just that I would be surprised if CCP meant for it to be painless to run dozens of planetary installations. That probably *should* be almost impossible for a single person to handle. Otherwise I don't see the PI market being really worth it for new players to get into.
The system works quite well as long as you have one character only running 5-6 planets and aren't doing cycles of less time than 5 hours.
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Cind Moltarr
Glowing Goat
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.08.04 18:47:00 -
[19]
I read somewhere, that you can double-click the extractors to start scanning and selecting the amount in the table. It also works on setting up the routing and probably on more actions.
Well, that info alone didn't reduce the ˝click-finger-ache+. So I moved the double-click to one of the side mouse buttons. Result: only half the clicks, on the thumb -> very relaxing PI.
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clixoras
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Posted - 2010.08.04 19:21:00 -
[20]
What i don't understand. After setting up 1 planet or whatever you start to realize how much time and effort is involved right? Asking CCP to do something about it is useless as i'm pretty sure this is by design. Especially if you look at the other 'tasks' in Eve. Be it invention, manufacturing etc. It all involves a lot of clicking.
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Jypsie
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Posted - 2010.08.04 20:14:00 -
[21]
I had two accounts in use when PI launched for the many reasons in Eve that dual boxing assists with. When I delved into PI I began training up the various alts and I agree that there is a point where trying to maximise PI with every available character becomes a huge headache. Its just finding the equilibrium where it becomes easy enough to maintain. For myself, that's several set ups that run on 23hr cycles, a few on 5hrs twice daily and one that I run on 5hr cycles with 30min cycles during my actual playtime on the occasions that allow me to do so.
Trying to run every character on multiple accounts at a maximised rate is not the ideal way to participate in PI unless that is your only goal in the game, which I can't imagine a person enjoying it that much. But who knows, someone might. I think CCP doesn't imagine people doing it either and therefore doesn't intend for it to be done that way.
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CAPSLOCKBROKE
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.04 20:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Milan Nantucket
Well if they fix PI I hope they fix everything. I am tired of clicking to warp, clicking to jump, clicking to build stuff, clicking to dock, and most importantly clicking pods to blow up... why can't I just have a smart autopilot that does all my **** for me
Lets just go watch the new Startrek movie.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CAPSLOCK, BECAUSE SOMETIMES REGULAR FONT JUST, ISN'T, GOOD ENOUGH. |
Krum Ygrovick
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Posted - 2010.08.04 23:44:00 -
[23]
thx for the tips.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.05 07:17:00 -
[24]
I would recomend all PI-users to invest in a mouse that can be programmed to "dobbel-click" when only clicking one time.
I have a Logitech G5 and it doubleclicks when i turn the mousewheel to the left or right. So that is a 50% reduction in clicking right there.
Still... to much clicking.
And there REALY should be an option to upgrade CC, and also a 12h cycle.
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Davros Fanvor
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.05 08:25:00 -
[25]
I think its fine, takes about a minute really to set off 12 extractors on a planet - routed to a couple of storages - these routed to basic processors that then route those products to the launch pad - the whole process runs itself once you've done your extractors.
Only have to visit the planets twice a week to pick up the processed products. None of this flying products to another planet - which basically costs more by charging you a fee to remove from extraction planet, fee to send to processing plant and fee to bring back up again.
If you end up doing tonnes of visits to the planets to move products around and such then of course you're going to get bored of it, but a few clicks every 5 hours and you don't even have to visit the system - that's something i can live with.
It's the compromise you get, you have to click each extractor but you can do it from far away. If CCP change it to being able to activate everything on a whole planet, they'll make you fly there to do it.
You can't have everything easy, so just go with what you're given
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Tigobitty
Caldari
Australian Mining and industry Corp
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.08.05 15:00:00 -
[26]
fwiw...
I tossed down a colony collecting bacteria a few weeks back, and had no idea what I was doing.
Anyhow, last night I did a little more research about what can be built, and decided to give it another go in the form of some POS fuel components.
I found that by holding CTRL and clicking a PIN, it initiates a new link... this saved a lot of time constructing my fourth colony.. I wish I had come across it when building the first.
*shrugs*
Are there any other shortcut key combos that have been figured out (or listed somewhere I haven't looked?)
Oh... Shameless plug... Continuity Holdings is recruiting! |
Rhavas
Minmatar
Lupus Vires
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:15:00 -
[27]
To me the fix here is a really simple one. Per planet (or even better globally) just create a "repeat last order" button that restarts all the extractors on the same time cycle that they last did. If you want to change cycles do it manually. But otherwise it's a lot for no reason.
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Necrosmith
Gallente
Chunder Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.06 02:37:00 -
[28]
I configured my middle mouse button to do a double click.
It at least cuts the clicking in half.
__________________
Follow me on Twitter
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GondriA
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Posted - 2010.08.06 10:36:00 -
[29]
relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 10:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: GondriA
relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
Originally by: GondriA
relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
I think that is the point. If it's too many clicks, you're doing too many colonies on too many characters.
For one character with 5 colonies, I've got about 40 extractors. I restart them three times a day. Not overwhelming, and I make a solid profit at it.
Count me in the group that believes that you not being able to do this on 5 different alts without going nuts is by design. And good design, at that. Tone down the OCD a bit and it gets a lot more fun.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:17:00 -
[32]
This is a game, fun has nothing to do with it 
As i said in the second post, i am fully aware i did bring this upon myself.
However i do not see why PI should be limited down by making it unnecessary difficult to maintain in a larger scale.
Yes it should be hard to make a lot of money doing PI (as hard as any other "career" in EVE), but making us click our brains out is in my humble opinion the wrong way to restrain the outcome.
It is also strange to me how CCP can present it as a passive income when so many capsulers are in dire need of the products (eg. POS Fuel).
So in a way many are actually being forced into PI due to the need of resources.
It might be just me, but PI is as i see it not at all what CCP said it would be (newbiefriendly, passive and totally optional to all).
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:01:00 -
[33]
Why SHOULDN'T it be harder to maintain in scale? The vast majority of things in the game are. Running five ships in different complexes at the same time is harder. Mining with five ships at the same time is harder. Maintaining 5 POSs is harder. Trying to run trade routes with 5 characters is harder. There's a solid case that features which aren't harder (such as research point collection) are an aberration which need to be fixed.
Are there other options to provide the limitation? Certainly. But most of them are either MORE work and/or have been done. They certainly could have required outside fuels and materials to keep extractors running. It would have provided the same limit, but required even more effort and just been POSs all over again.
Let's consider your three points on what PI should be.
Newbie-friendly: How can you even suggest that it's not? You can be fully involved in PI with only a few days skill training and less investment than most cruisers. It's probably the newbie-ist friendly feature in EVE.
Passive: This is entirely your choice. Long cycle times don't produce as much, but they are certainly passive. IMHO they nailed it - you can choose your level of involvement based on desired profit.
Totally optional: Suggesting it's not option is pretty much nuts. Sorry. So long as there are sources for the materials you need, you can buy them without setting up your own colonies. By the standard you seem to be applying, mining is non-optional for everyone in the game, because everyone needs minerals.
Is it a perfect system? No, I don't think so. Not by a long shot. But there's a very fine line to walk in creating a system to allow hands-off production. It may not be the new selling point of EVE, but it's a pretty acceptable system for what it is. It only becomes unacceptable when you move outside the intended constraints.
And that's part of the problem. People are completely wound up over how the constraints were implemented, rather than addressing the constraints themselves. If you want to have a debate over whether you should be able to have 25 colonies all producing ISK for you for weeks while you don't even log in, then fine - have that debate. But arguing that all the clicks are bad because they mean you can't run 25 colonies is missing the point.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:45:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ulstan on 06/08/2010 18:47:46
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
Originally by: GondriA
relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
I think that is the point. If it's too many clicks, you're doing too many colonies on too many characters.
For one character with 5 colonies, I've got about 40 extractors. I restart them three times a day. Not overwhelming, and I make a solid profit at it.
Count me in the group that believes that you not being able to do this on 5 different alts without going nuts is by design. And good design, at that. Tone down the OCD a bit and it gets a lot more fun.
I agree that it's not real bad with just one character. I think not being able to run 3 alts on 4 diff accounts on PI easily is by design - it's passive income. It NEEDS to have a limit to how well it scales or you break the economy utterly.
If CCP lets you restart all the extractors on a planet with one click, they'll need to add in something else so a single person doesn't just manage 40 planets passively...I don't have any other good alternatives to the click fest that have the same effect of not being terribly onerous on one person using PI 'as intended' while curtailing people trying to run it on 3 alts per account for multiple accounts.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 19:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Why SHOULDN'T it be harder to maintain in scale? The vast majority of things in the game are. Running five ships in different complexes at the same time is harder. Mining with five ships at the same time is harder. Maintaining 5 POSs is harder. Trying to run trade routes with 5 characters is harder. There's a solid case that features which aren't harder (such as research point collection) are an aberration which need to be fixed.
You missunderstood me (or i am terrible to explain).
I did mean it is a lot more tidious work to maintain the same level of income in PI than in other areas like missions, trading or mining. (yes i know it is by design, i just dont agree that it should be like that.
Of course is should be harder to maintain with 5 chars than with one.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Let's consider your three points on what PI should be.
Newbie-friendly: How can you even suggest that it's not? You can be fully involved in PI with only a few days skill training and less investment than most cruisers. It's probably the newbie-ist friendly feature in EVE.
It is not newbiefriendly due to the reason i dont believe any newcomer to EVE is gonna go for PI due to the clickfest. Newcomers wanna learn EVE and fly spaceships (i believe).
And the point are not mine on how it should be, it is CCP's. My point are more or less the opposite.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Passive: This is entirely your choice. Long cycle times don't produce as much, but they are certainly passive. IMHO they nailed it - you can choose your level of involvement based on desired profit.
I agree fully that is is indeed working as intended. Im just not agreeing with it. I believe PI should be able to yield better profit if one is interested in using many hours on it.
I dont see why it should be any less rewarding than other "careers" (based on time/effort used).
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Totally optional: Suggesting it's not option is pretty much nuts. Sorry. So long as there are sources for the materials you need, you can buy them without setting up your own colonies. By the standard you seem to be applying, mining is non-optional for everyone in the game, because everyone needs minerals.
I was trying to say that it is not optional since the products are needed by so many. Have you not read all the threads from capsuleers shutting down towers due to far to expencive POS-fuel?
Yes they can easily create own fuel.. but a lot of them dont want to use PI.
Though it is optional (as everything else is) there is a need for someone to do it.
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Is it a perfect system? No, I don't think so. Not by a long shot. But there's a very fine line to walk in creating a system to allow hands-off production. It may not be the new selling point of EVE, but it's a pretty acceptable system for what it is. It only becomes unacceptable when you move outside the intended constraints.
And that's part of the problem. People are completely wound up over how the constraints were implemented, rather than addressing the constraints themselves. If you want to have a debate over whether you should be able to have 25 colonies all producing ISK for you for weeks while you don't even log in, then fine - have that debate. But arguing that all the clicks are bad because they mean you can't run 25 colonies is missing the point.
I never said one should be able to not log in for a week and have 25 colonies making gazillions.. I said it should be as rewarding as the other careers in time/effort spendt.
eg.
I am not complaining because i cant be bothered doing some hard work on PI, i am complaining mostly about all the clicking needed. I have no good solution to this, but i do reserve my right to discuss the matter.
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Terbulus
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Posted - 2010.08.06 21:12:00 -
[36]
I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
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Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.06 21:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Terbulus
I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
Omg you are totally right.. Everyone that cant make 600 million isk per hour should definitely quit EVE since that is obviously the goal here.
How come i didnt think of that first.. 
You sir are a genius... a beautiful mind
If you actually bothered to read more than only the last post you might have seen i have stated mining is boring and that i dont do it.
PI on the other hand, i find quite fun to fiddle with (+ missions, exploration, trading).
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Terbulus
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Posted - 2010.08.06 22:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
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If you actually bothered to read more than only the last post
I didn't read the last post, I didnt read any of this thread at all. Ive read about a dozen threads already with nearly the exact same topic. Im pretty sure my previous post is an accurate response to any complaints you might have about PI.
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Mocat
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Posted - 2010.08.13 10:57:00 -
[39]
The PI clicking fest is terrible. Could CCP provide PI with a button to restart extractors with 1 button. I normally set all extractors on same time frames so 1 click to restart them all would be very nice.
Like it is now, its horrible and turns me completely off.
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Ja'Dur Deathwalker
Minmatar
Rookies Academy
Rookie Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.13 12:26:00 -
[40]
until i ripped everything up and moved, (not restarted yet) i was doing only 3 clicks per extractor per day,
Double Click extractor -
Click period for extract -
click apply -
If you have set up the routing already you dont need to change it
Trying to live beyond 30 days without being podded again.... |
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:37:00 -
[41]
Anyone making less than 140 million per day with 23h cycles on a character is doing it wrong.
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Feikno
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Posted - 2010.08.13 15:31:00 -
[42]
Now, not to say Planetary Interaction isn't a bit much at times, but I do find it specifically funny with how auto run all of Eve is, that now that there is actually something to do, people are complaining it doesn't run itself like other facets of the game.
I stop to think how much I 'click' in other games, and Eve really does have minimal clicks.
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Zelman Axe
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Posted - 2010.08.14 03:05:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Zelman Axe on 14/08/2010 03:08:07
go get laid man you need a life... wow I'm sorry for you.
I did PI for 2...3 days and got feedup with the PI design. CCP devs were on crack when they designed it
they should allow you to group simitar extractors for the same planet goo and then you click once on the group and you're done instead of clicking on every damn single extractor it's just insane.
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
I had my fifth (5) alt skilled up for PI 2 days ago. So i have 5 chars with 5 planets each and i am running 5h cycle on 20 of them.
It is on average 17 extractors on each planet (2-3p rocessors, 1 launchpad), exept for the 2 manufacture-planets i have (1 for P1 -> P2 and one for P2 -> P4).
At the start of all this madness i set out to test...test..PI
Sudddenly i find myself crying in a corner after spend nearly 1billion isk (counting buyorders not filled) and clicky-finger on strike!
Well... the money does not bother me, it is more where it came from. But the clicking and the INSANELY BRIGHT LIGHT from gasplanets that has caused me to have headaces EVERY NIGHT!!!
I like PI a lot (what it can become, not as is) but the clicking and all the other anoying gameruining stuff needs some serious tweaking.
To sum up:
25 planets
17 extraactors on each (425 pcs)
4 clicks each extractor
3-4 times a day.
= 6800 clicks each day (On reseting the extractors alone).
Yes.. it is my own choice, but i wish CCP could make a litle more userfriendly
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.08.14 18:33:00 -
[44]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 14/08/2010 18:34:01
Originally by: Princess Nimotehp
Originally by: GondriA
relax guys is hard to make some clicks?
And by "some", you are refering to how many clicks pr day to reset extractors? 10? 50? 100? 1000? 6800?
More cliks , more income whats wrong with that ?
Excpet thats dull , but thats not a pionit of discussion here.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.14 18:43:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 14/08/2010 18:42:47
qrawerfqewtfarerwer
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Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
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Posted - 2010.08.14 23:09:00 -
[46]
People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.14 23:21:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
2 five hour cycles extract more than one 23 hour one.
do the math
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GondriA
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Posted - 2010.08.15 01:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
2 five hour cycles extract more than one 23 hour one.
do the math
Dont forget to do the 5 hour cycle depends if u have the time to doit:p
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Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
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Posted - 2010.08.15 07:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
People who restart extractors more often than once per day are doing it wrong.
2 five hour cycles extract more than one 23 hour one.
do the math
Say hello to boredom and possibly RSI.
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Aesynil
Caldari
The Unit...
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Posted - 2010.08.15 09:12:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Aesynil on 15/08/2010 09:13:31
Originally by: Terbulus
I make the equivalent of 600 million ISK per hour. I dont see the need to spend time doing anything boring in EvE to get ISK. Try getting a RL job.
I believe this poster is saying that if you translate his hourly wage into GTC's, he would be making 600M an hour, which would mean he makes something around $35 an hour at his job.
Or put it this way. A decent job that a high school kid could get would pay around $8-9 an hour, hopefully. Maybe less, but meh. In four hours, you can make enough real cash to buy one GTC, which sells for 600M ISK. Therefore, you would be making 150M ISK an hour. If your choices are A) Tedious RL job or B) Tedious in-game task that you dislike, why not go with the one that 'makes' more ISK?
The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry. |
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.15 17:09:00 -
[51]
Each to his own really, im not for spending my RL cash on something i can make while enjoying a game.
iPlus, id much rather do something boring online than become a dumb ass wage slave.
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Ambaseter Doggy
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Posted - 2010.08.16 02:19:00 -
[52]
Why not make the 1 button only apply to 23 or 37 hour cycles. that way u can still make more with the other 1s but there still active.
Agent texas is a bit of a badass |
Soldarius
Independent Coalition
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.16 04:41:00 -
[53]
I have one character and 4 colonies. Even that relatively small amount of clicking is pretty annoying. Haven't touched it in weeks. The passive income available even from POS fuel is hampered by the inordinate amount of clicking required to keep extractors running, and the fixed processing rates of processors.
Solution: We can group weapons, why not extractors? Perhaps not the entire planet. But automate the process a bit. Group like extractors, set them for the same rates, and have at it.
Better Solution: Have different extractors that mine at different rates rather than the current click fest of clicking a scan menu, then clicking the rates shown. The whole scanning thing is silly anyway. Its always the same amount every scan. No more clicking! We have crystals for mining lasers. Why not crystals for mining extractors? Make them more like weapons. Would be nice to group extractors with same crystals (ammo). Make PI like the rest of the game.
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." |
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