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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.05 15:45:00 -
[1]
I had originally just wrote this ship off as like the other black ops just a covert jump bridge.
But according to evemon it has a +30% ECM strength modification. This is on par with the rook and falcon. So my question is:
Has anyone used this as a super mega death rook? Granted you can't do this with alot of tank but it just seems that for small gang warfare this would be the game changer if this landed in the middle.
With 8 racial jammers, and torps, and no tank I got a jam str of 13.5 each and 1143 DPS.
This ship now just looks like a fun thing to land in the middle of a skirmish. Assuming less than 5 vs 5 of course.
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Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2010.08.05 15:55:00 -
[2]
If you realy want to drop nearly half a billions worth of hull into a small gang fight then props to you for having the balls! You will, of course, be insta-primary. I wouldn't though, I'm much happier using mine purely as a covert bridge, maybe occasionaly throwing some jam cycles at the resulting fight from 70km-ish while staying alligned to something!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.08.05 17:51:00 -
[3]
Problem is, whilst it has an extra mid over the rook, it loses out to it quite substantially on scan resolution. Locking speed is a key factor in being an effective jammer.
it's pretty potent, but - effectively untanked like you're suggesting - it will melt startlingly fast if there's a ship that doesn't get jammed - 23k ehps does not go far when you're talking a 5 way BS fight.
You'd probably be better off just throwing a carrier away - it'll last longer, and you'll get a better insurance payout.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:04:00 -
[4]
You have a valid point with the scan res.
Still might do it one day with a DC II and a couple of 1600mm plates on.
Only 80 days of training.
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Petra Katell
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:54:00 -
[5]
Widow is a torp raven with a jump drive, fit it as such.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Petra Katell Widow is a torp raven with a jump drive, fit it as such.
People will make fun of you if you do this, but that's my approach too.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Footoo Rama
Gallente Cast-a-Ways.
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:37:00 -
[7]
The Widow is by far the most usefull of the the Bo ships, the question is though if you are not using it for BO, why not just use the scorp, sure the ehp is less and it is not quite as good of a jamming platform. I have seen Widows used effectively in gate camps, and roaming with an RR gang, but I think for the cost even the slightly gimped ecm of the scorp makes it a better though less sexy choice. ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Footoo Rama The Widow is by far the most usefull of the the Bo ships, the question is though if you are not using it for BO, why not just use the scorp, sure the ehp is less and it is not quite as good of a jamming platform. I have seen Widows used effectively in gate camps, and roaming with an RR gang, but I think for the cost even the slightly gimped ecm of the scorp makes it a better though less sexy choice.
Clearly makes sense...
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:09:00 -
[9]
if black ops BS were actually meant to be used in pvp, they would be able to fit covert cloaks.
it's a bridger and pve-in-safe-place ship, nothing more.
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Petra Katell
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Petra Katell on 05/08/2010 21:43:26
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Petra Katell Widow is a torp raven with a jump drive, fit it as such.
People will make fun of you if you do this, but that's my approach too.
-Liang
I know.. they're the ones that have never actually used them in combat.
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local 81
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:57:00 -
[11]
I dont have much experience to offer in this thread for sure, but I find the nature of the design to be very impressive in action. Im a new eve member, but with military experience, I can tell you the use of right tool, in the correct manner will be very effective. The widow just looks bad ass to me and the class ship, Black ops, Is just hardcore and stealthy. If used properly, I do not see why it wouldnt or couldnt help lay pilots to rest as they pop into their pods.
I cant wait to skill up for this class ship, and finally learn to pilot one myself. :)
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.08.05 22:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: pmchem if black ops BS were actually meant to be used in pvp, they would be able to fit covert cloaks.
it's a bridger and pve-in-safe-place ship, nothing more.
Not sure I agree. The one thing the have, that no other ship can do is the jump drive - if you're basing your PvP around that jump drive, then ... well, nothing else can do it.
I reckon with an covert cyno Arazu, supported by a couple of blackops - redeemers maybe? They work nicely at the 'point' range of an Arazu with scorch megapulses - you could probably kill a target, and be ready to jump clear before the session change timer expires.
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Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente The Darkness Within Death Rhubarb
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Posted - 2010.08.06 02:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: James Lyrus The one thing the have, that no other ship can do is the jump drive - if you're basing your PvP around that jump drive, then ... well, nothing else can do it.
If your PvP consists entirely of hotdropping small/solo camps with bombers from a few (in-region) jumps away, yeah it does that. But that's all it can do. The jump drive and bridge is too inefficient and too short to be able to do anything useful, and you certainly wouldn't be able to plan a PvP op around it unless you had either placed fuel at each jump or 25% of your fleet consists of covert haulers
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2010.08.06 06:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: James Lyrus Problem is, whilst it has an extra mid over the rook, it loses out to it quite substantially on scan resolution. Locking speed is a key factor in being an effective jammer.
it's pretty potent, but - effectively untanked like you're suggesting - it will melt startlingly fast if there's a ship that doesn't get jammed - 23k ehps does not go far when you're talking a 5 way BS fight.
You'd probably be better off just throwing a carrier away - it'll last longer, and you'll get a better insurance payout.
And dropping a carrier in the middle of a fight would probably be more useful lol.
If you want to stay sub cap you would get more use out of a faction BS i think though in any case you would probably still become primary.
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Strangely Mean
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: pmchem if black ops BS were actually meant to be used in pvp, they would be able to fit covert cloaks.
it's a bridger and pve-in-safe-place ship, nothing more.
both sad, and true
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demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:56:00 -
[16]
hanger candy count as a use?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:12:00 -
[17]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 06/08/2010 16:13:57
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Petra Katell Widow is a torp raven with a jump drive, fit it as such.
People will make fun of you if you do this, but that's my approach too.
-Liang
People made fun of the guy who fit noses on his dominix, and threw away the hybrid damage bonus, once upon a time...
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen
Originally by: James Lyrus The one thing the have, that no other ship can do is the jump drive - if you're basing your PvP around that jump drive, then ... well, nothing else can do it.
If your PvP consists entirely of hotdropping small/solo camps with bombers from a few (in-region) jumps away, yeah it does that. But that's all it can do. The jump drive and bridge is too inefficient and too short to be able to do anything useful, and you certainly wouldn't be able to plan a PvP op around it unless you had either placed fuel at each jump or 25% of your fleet consists of covert haulers
*shrug*. They've got enough fuel to jump in and out, and a rapid deployment/nigh unscoutable strike team isn't entirely valueless.
Just a bit limited, which I guess would be the point of the thread.
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Petra Katell Widow is a torp raven with a jump drive, fit it as such.
People will make fun of you if you do this, but that's my approach too.
-Liang
Pretty much. Although you have to remember it only cost half the amount of fuel to jump a widow as it does to bridge a falcon.
That's more a failing of the fuel use on a covert bridge being equal to a titan than a posative of the widow, but it does count :) ***The EVE servers and their patches***
[b]"The data does not suggest that polished content sells better th |
Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em Stellar Defense Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Strangely Mean really, its only function is bridge-guy
Actually they do pritty good at jamming 4 sleeper BS's in WH's.
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ArcDragon
Caldari Ghost Data Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2010.08.07 01:20:00 -
[20]
I just picked up the Black Op skill book for 57M today, not because I went for it, but because, by accident I qualified for it.
So I immediatly used eve HQ and imported popular fits for it.
I have to say I'm SORELY dissapointed in it.
Ships that take less than HALF the skill set offer better returns than the Black Op BS series.
I remember there being a complaint thread on it years ago and nothing came of it, and I'm positive nothing will come of this thread either, this makes me a sad panda.
Other posters are correct when they say a scrop is a better choice. Only the covert bridge makes this thing worth buying, but then again, is that worth putting a billion into a ship that, in my humble opinion, should at the very least be able to use a covert op cloaking device??
I'm not getting into the other points as I would rather save my energy for something more useful to complain about, but damn, really? 1 Bill and all you get is a bridge ship with a tank of 27? If it has a SAVE button...I'm not interested. |
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.08.07 08:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 07/08/2010 08:39:43
Originally by: James Lyrus
I reckon with an covert cyno Arazu, supported by a couple of blackops - redeemers maybe? They work nicely at the 'point' range of an Arazu with scorch megapulses - you could probably kill a target, and be ready to jump clear before the session change timer expires.
The only way i've really seen them used* is the above description, or variations of it that offset their risk of value by using distance. Bombers for cheap tackle, some Recons at mid range (tackle/anti-tackle support), the main source of range-oriented Recons and BOps at distance with Tech 3 support.
In that scenario, i've seen them going for ranged weapon setups since they're capable of 400-500 dps weapon damage up to 75-100km distances (at which supported Arazus can still point). That includes Widows with LolCruise.
Edit*, i should say used effectively or planned in gangs with a clear BOps focus, since you obviously see them dropped left and right in ganks or w/e.
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Lubomir Penev
TTSP.x.X.x.RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.07 22:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: pmchem if black ops BS were actually meant to be used in pvp, they would be able to fit covert cloaks.
wtf would you use the covert cloak for?
You bridge, jump, gank, jump out. At no moment you used the cloak.
Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended8/9/2010← the missing space is original CCP material |
Footoo Rama
Gallente Cast-a-Ways.
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Posted - 2010.08.07 22:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Footoo Rama on 07/08/2010 22:59:24 Black Ops are fine they where never meant to be OMFG pvp mobiles. They serve a great purpose and can be used very effectively in trained hands. Sure they could use a jump fuel bay( i think it has bot been added yet)... but a Sin makes a great bridger, and an awesome logistics station while deep in enemy territory. The others work fine in their role. They do not need the ability to cloak while jumping sure it would be nice, but then they might be a tad OP, and have the ability to solo penetrate behind enemy lines.
The Widow is the only one that can be really effective in PvP with its great ecm ability but is somewhat tempered by the lock times. I have seen Widows used on gate camps and in RR fleets, the issue is the Scorp costs a fraction of the price and is almost as effective, making using a widow in a fleet over a scorp and potentially very costly decision.
If you want OMGWTFBBQ pwn mobile BS's get a mach or a nightmare or a vindicator...
------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
Rakshan
Gallente Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 00:47:00 -
[24]
my personal fit for it uses the same tank as my nightmare with a few low officer or faction multispecs. meaning with a vulture in fleet it can tank upwards of 8k more towards 9k and still deal the great dps while having pretty good jam strength against everything.
with my fit, HG crystals, and the best blue pill you would rep your shields from 0 to full in 3-5 cycles..cant remember exactly. imo its a great ship to sit in an enemy ratting system for a few days let them get comfortable with you and then jump their ratters. if they come at you with whatever ratting ships they have in system thinking they can easily break you they will be succeptible to jams and face ****age then you procede to exit stage right or left whichever you prefer. Life is Pain.....Get over it!!!! |
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente The Darkness Within Death Rhubarb
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Posted - 2010.08.08 02:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Footoo Rama If you want OMGWTFBBQ pwn mobile BS's get a mach or a nightmare or a vindicator...
It's not about being a pwn mobile, it's about being able to perform the role they were designed for. You haven't actually seen a black ops used so your speculation about them being useful in the right hands is pretty amusing.
Also note that a covert cloak wouldn't really make it a solo pwn mobile; because of its heavy mass (~50% more than t1) prop mods are terrible on it and the first bubble camp you run into will decloak and blast you. And if they haven't got a bubble, then the improved cloak is already enough to get you past that safely.
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Footoo Rama
Gallente Cast-a-Ways.
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Posted - 2010.08.08 19:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen
Originally by: Footoo Rama If you want OMGWTFBBQ pwn mobile BS's get a mach or a nightmare or a vindicator...
It's not about being a pwn mobile, it's about being able to perform the role they were designed for. You haven't actually seen a black ops used so your speculation about them being useful in the right hands is pretty amusing.
Also note that a covert cloak wouldn't really make it a solo pwn mobile; because of its heavy mass (~50% more than t1) prop mods are terrible on it and the first bubble camp you run into will decloak and blast you. And if they haven't got a bubble, then the improved cloak is already enough to get you past that safely.
I haven't seen one used?? Huh I have been dropped by and on with these. I never said the covert cloak would make it a solo pwn mobile. I said slightly OP as it would make it easier for a BO to get into posit, without needing scouting.
I do not see how a BO does not fullfill its role perfectly, it is meant to jump in other ships and get them out, it was never meant to be a PvP ship. I still stand by that the Widow and to a lessor extent the Sin are the 2 most usefull as the ecm ability on a Widow is really nice, and the logistics support a Sin can do is also really nice. They all still are pretty fail being used for anything other then BO bridging, once cost and effectiveness are thrown in. ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente The Darkness Within Death Rhubarb
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:45:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen on 09/08/2010 00:45:50
Originally by: Footoo Rama I haven't seen one used?? Huh I have been dropped by and on with these.
Your examples were 'gate camping and 'RR roaming fleet ECM'. You have zero knowledge of fitting them. You're going by how they look on paper and it's far from reality.
Quote: I never said the covert cloak would make it a solo pwn mobile. I said slightly OP as it would make it easier for a BO to get into posit, without needing scouting.
Get into position for what? It'll have a fleet of covert, agile ships with it anyway, ready to be dumped onto the target. Or else it'll be cloaked, waiting for said fleet to return.
Quote: I do not see how a BO does not fullfill its role perfectly, it is meant to jump in other ships and get them out, it was never meant to be a PvP ship.
Of course you don't, you haven't tried one out yourself. We're interested in improving its logistical role -- jump drive range and fuel use -- more than its actual combat role. Plenty of ships are good at combat. Only one sub-capital ship is capable of creating a bridge for other ships, and it's so nerfed and short range that black ops pilots feel cheated. But of course you don't know that, and won't until you're a black ops pilot yourself.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.08.09 22:03:00 -
[28]
I fly a Widow, and for the cost of the ship in ISK and Training Time and lets not forget how high on the primary list you are,
The Ship class is useless for anything other than a Covert Jump Bridge.
As far as the Widows ECM goes, you are better off in any other ECM boat. Your "no delayed targeting after de-cloaking" bonus is wasted because of the Scan Resolution penalty, and that means with your 30k to 40k effective hit points and terrible resists, your dead or well on your way there before you get a lock.
I cant speak for the other BO's but the best use for this thing is to sit at a friendly POS and jump in / out more capable combat ships...
A waste of development time as far as I'm concerned, and I want a refund of skill points.
The plus side of the Widow is that it looks cool
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Von Kretschmer
No Trademark
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Posted - 2010.08.09 22:48:00 -
[29]
No, it's just not good at being an ECM boat. Bridge in a Falcon instead.
As stated above, fit it like a torp raven and use your imagination. What region you live in certainly makes a difference.
Niche of course, but far from useless.
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.08.09 23:29:00 -
[30]
ECM burst plus sensor dampener is strong with this one.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
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