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d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.07 22:53:00 -
[1]
Do you engage your counterpart Amarr ships like the Harbinger and Zealot? After EFT'ing, I found that with selectable damage types, Minmatar ships need to do about 75% - 85% of their Amarr counterpart's damage to win. Damage is distance with Minmatar ships, however, so they need to be closer than they usually prefer when soloing. The actual damage% to win may be higher due to damage taken while closing.
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Tom Willson
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Posted - 2010.08.08 00:03:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tom Willson on 08/08/2010 00:04:23
In my Cane I do attack Harb's, yes. Seeing as how all these new setups seem to involve pure focused medium pulse lasers with scorch. This means that you can, if you're really on the go, keep at that magical 22-24km range.
If not I usually go with either a cheap faction warp disruptor that let's me use that 30km range from the Barrage M without having to overheat my point while wearing him down. There is always the skirmish warfare mindlink + interdiction manuvers link to concider if you're with a buddy or two, which let's your T2 warp disruptor go up to 29.4km:ish without overheating, which basically let's you fly circles around the Harb, laughing.
As for the zealot: It's got lasers, your resists as a Vagabond towards EM/Thermal is quite high while at the same time letting you pick EMP/PP to finish that sucker off first. If the other guy is not armor fitted you can always hope it's not warp scrambler/web fitted, but this is a gamble. Don't get close to him.
Then again it's not all set in stone, so don't underestimate the opponent.
tldr:
Harb's can be somewhat tricky without proper means but is certainly soloable for a Cane/Vaga.
Zealot: Usually a piece of cake for a Vaga/zzz-fest for a Cane.
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Lexa HeIIfury
Incura
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.08 00:14:00 -
[3]
Zealots are easy, Harbs are scary.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.08 09:42:00 -
[4]
Speaking as a nanocane pilot:
Zealot: hell yes. Nanocane vs. Zealot is going to be a short and brutal execution unless the Zealot pilot is nano fit and snaked as well. And hey, my ship is cheaper so even if the Zealot pilot is a god of PvP I'm willing to take the risk.
Harbinger: yes. A Harbinger has a good chance of winning this fight if properly PvP fit, but I'm faster by a huge margin so it's usually worth going for it to see if they might be weak enough to get the kill.
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Aerilis
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.08.08 10:57:00 -
[5]
Armor tank your Cane.
Laugh at Harbs 
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Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.08 11:00:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Aerilis
Armor tank your Cane.
Laugh at Harbs
Armor tank your Cane.
Die to all camps
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d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.08 16:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Intigo
Originally by: Aerilis
Armor tank your Cane.
Laugh at Harbs
Armor tank your Cane.
Die to all camps
Really? What's the difference between you taking 1 more second to align and the enemy taking 1 less second to lock?
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:02:00 -
[8]
It is more like 5seconds slower align time.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:03:00 -
[9]
Pretty much every BC/HAC is a valid target for a Shield tanked Cane, especially a Harbi (assuming you fit it right and have good skills).. The only BC that should really give you problems if you are solo is a Drake, simply because they can out tank you and your speed/range has little effect on them.
Remember neuts are Amarr's worst nightmare.. typically the shield tanked Cane is meant to stay out of scram range but with certain targets it's worth breaking that rule to kill their cap with your 2 med neuts.
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d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
It is more like 5seconds slower align time.
With 800mm Steel Plate II, it's +1.3s. If you can fit 1600mm Steel Plate I, it's +2.6s. With shield extenders and rigs, the enemy will lock about 0.5s faster.
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d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:37:00 -
[11]
How do you usually engage the Harbinger? If you're warping to a nearby object and need to close, it seems like you'll have to disengage. The Harbinger will burn away as you close and you'll be in the 25km - 18km where he out damages you for a long time. If you're probing, I assume you warp in around 17km and out damage him the whole fight.
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.08 17:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: d00m2
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
It is more like 5seconds slower align time.
With 800mm Steel Plate II, it's +1.3s. If you can fit 1600mm Steel Plate I, it's +2.6s. With shield extenders and rigs, the enemy will lock about 0.5s faster.
Evading gatecamps is usually about burnign back to the gate and jump out or burn away from the campers, rather than just warp off and hope noone locks and points you.
What's the speed difference? Mind you aligntime also indicates acceleration.
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d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Khors
Originally by: d00m2
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
It is more like 5seconds slower align time.
With 800mm Steel Plate II, it's +1.3s. If you can fit 1600mm Steel Plate I, it's +2.6s. With shield extenders and rigs, the enemy will lock about 0.5s faster.
Evading gatecamps is usually about burnign back to the gate and jump out or burn away from the campers, rather than just warp off and hope noone locks and points you.
What's the speed difference? Mind you aligntime also indicates acceleration.
Ah OK. I'm clueless but very curious how these engagements work.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: d00m2
How do you usually engage the Harbinger? If you're warping to a nearby object and need to close, it seems like you'll have to disengage. The Harbinger will burn away as you close and you'll be in the 25km - 18km where he out damages you for a long time. If you're probing, I assume you warp in around 17km and out damage him the whole fight.
The Harbi will be much slower than a shield tanked Cane and assuming you are using 2 TE's and 425mms you will be hitting at the same ranges he hits at. It takes no time at all burning into to a slow ship like that, less than 10 seconds if you are 30km away.
TBH, the Shield tanked Cane is a ship that takes a bit of finesse to fly because it's fairly fast for a BC and you are typically playing in the 15km to 24km range meaning you don't have a lot of room for mistakes and you have to be on the ball and Maxed Navigation skills are what make the ship shine along with all the other needed skills.
The Harbi is one of the easiest targets to kill aside from a Brutix, assuming you are using 2 Med neuts. The BC's that worry me the most are other Canes and Myrmidons and of course Drakes.
If you aren't sure how to kill the Harbi it's likely because you aren't ready for the ship just yet, pilot/experience wise. The Shield cane is a ship that needs practice, so I'd suggest fitting out some Shield tanked Ruptures and running 425's with 2 TE's and 1 Gyro. This will give you less damage but more importantly the same range as the Cane and a relatively cheap & more agile ship to practice with.
Just go out kill some Frigs & Cruisers with it, to get your practice then step up to the Cane once you get the hang of it.
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d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ralnik
Edited by: Ralnik on 08/08/2010 18:12:16
Originally by: d00m2
How do you usually engage the Harbinger? If you're warping to a nearby object and need to close, it seems like you'll have to disengage. The Harbinger will burn away as you close and you'll be in the 25km - 18km where he out damages you for a long time. If you're probing, I assume you warp in around 17km and out damage him the whole fight.
The Harbi will be much slower than a shield tanked Cane and assuming you are using 2 TE's and 425mms you will be hitting at the same ranges he hits at. It takes no time at all burning into to a slow ship like that, less than 5 seconds if you are 30km away.
TBH, the Shield tanked Cane is a ship that takes a bit of finesse to fly because it's fairly fast for a BC and you are typically playing in the 15km to 24km range meaning you don't have a lot of room for mistakes and you have to be on the ball.
The Harbi is one of the easiest targets to kill aside from a Brutix, assuming you are using 2 Med neuts. The BC's that worry me the most are other Canes, Myrmidons and of course Drakes.
If you aren't sure how to kill the Harbi it's likely because you aren't ready for the ship just yet, pilot/experience wise. The Shield cane is a ship that needs practice, so I'd suggest fitting out some Shield tanked Ruptures and running 425's with 2 TE's and 1 Gyro. This will give you less damage but more importantly the same range as the Cane and a relatively cheap & more agile ship to practice with.
Just go out kill some Frigs & Cruisers with it, to get your practice then step up to the Cane once you get the hang of it. You will likely lose a lot less ships doing it this way and gain a lot more experience.
I'm still a long ways off from flying BCs, let alone flying them well.
If the Harbinger is MWDing away, it takes a long time to close the 25km-18km gap. With high enough skills and without cap injectors, EFT tells me the Harbinger can MWD and still shoot long enough to kill a Hurricane.
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Bro Diddley
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Posted - 2010.08.08 18:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: d00m2
...EFT tells me...
EFT also tells you you can fit capital reps to battleships.
/o\
~
fk you |
Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2010.08.09 09:43:00 -
[17]
Assuming an armour tanked harbie and you in a shield tanked cane, you can always drop a LSE for a tracking disruptor with range script if you know in advance you are likely to engage a harbie. Eats em for breakfast. Sit and point at around 20k with total impunity, kill his drones with yours.
If an armour tanked cane, orbit up close with twin neuts, scram, web and a tracking disruptor with tracking script and proceed to riddle the harbie with withering point-blank autocannon fire while most of the return laser fire misses (Until the harbie caps out anyway.)
Shield tanked twin TE harbies can be a bit tricky to take down with both these fits though.
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.08.09 12:09:00 -
[18]
Dude if it's an armor Harb it's going to have an injector and a web + a neut of its own. I wouldn't run up in its face I'd just kite it and GTFO if I needed. It can never catch you if you don't let it.
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Lord Zekk
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.10 17:20:00 -
[19]
A harb with no ECM drones, close in, overheat + neut. Facemelting damage if you load RF Fusion M and go with 3 Gyros. The same approach works brilliantly against the super rep Myrms especially if you're 2 canes vs 2 Myrms. They can't keep up with 4 medium neuts even when double injecting.
Of course to each their own.
We are recruiting. http://www.22ndbrdu.com
In game channel: Arta-X |
d00m2
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Posted - 2010.08.12 02:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lord Zekk
A harb with no ECM drones, close in, overheat + neut. Facemelting damage if you load RF Fusion M and go with 3 Gyros. The same approach works brilliantly against the super rep Myrms especially if you're 2 canes vs 2 Myrms. They can't keep up with 4 medium neuts even when double injecting.
Of course to each their own.
Zekk,
That's what I thought too. The problem is getting close--even though you're over 150ms faster when you're both MWDing, it still takes a while to close from 25km to 17km where you begin to out damage him. He'll easily be able to shoot + MWD for at least a couple minutes even without a cap injector.
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Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.12 10:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Intigo on 12/08/2010 10:19:52
Originally by: d00m2
Originally by: Lord Zekk
A harb with no ECM drones, close in, overheat + neut. Facemelting damage if you load RF Fusion M and go with 3 Gyros. The same approach works brilliantly against the super rep Myrms especially if you're 2 canes vs 2 Myrms. They can't keep up with 4 medium neuts even when double injecting.
Of course to each their own.
Zekk,
That's what I thought too. The problem is getting close--even though you're over 150ms faster when you're both MWDing, it still takes a while to close from 25km to 17km where you begin to out damage him. He'll easily be able to shoot + MWD for at least a couple minutes even without a cap injector.
Christ.
He's not gonna be MWD'ing away in a straight line kiting you from the very get-go. And if he's doing so then simply turn around, you're outside his optimal and taking no damage and when he turns you back in on him.
Seriously, what kind of stupid scenarios are you putting up in your mind?
Get a grip or stop trolling. Whatever it is.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.08.12 10:38:00 -
[22]
Shield tanked harbi will kill shield cane if fight starts at 15k+, armor tanked harbi will kill shield cane because he WILL have cap booster fitted /or you are talking about lolfits here?/ and he has much better dps/ehp ratio.
But cane can usually disengage if things are going bad.
Ofc if you are doing some ******ed maneuvring you are giving your target chance to warp away too. Not to say that after 1 such try on hpl harbi your shield will most likely be in condition when you are seriously considering to gtfo.
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Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2010.08.12 11:43:00 -
[23]
Quite simple actually.
Start at range, if you see a sebo running and he has you tackled....he dont have cap booster and a scram.
So you can neut cap down, if not you can always disengage with the remaining armor and hull buffer.
I would much rather avoid a harbinger tho, unless he was a **** poor pilot.
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Boundless Faith
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Posted - 2010.08.12 15:12:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Boundless Faith on 12/08/2010 15:14:13
Zealot pilots allowing themselves to get ****d by a cane are terribad Zealot pilots.
Especially considering Zealots shouldnt be in someone's face to begin with.
IF you catch them, they vaporize.
But as stated before, IF you get caught, you suck as a Zealot pilot.
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Sleevedace
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Posted - 2010.08.13 17:31:00 -
[25]
Zealot is a sniper boat...
If you are close to a cane in a zealot your doing it wrong.
Go look at Navy omen....
Also, I fly both canes and harbs and I can easily say that the cane is superior for most engagments.
But this is eve, so any ship can kill any ship under certain circumstances
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