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Miner Jotang	Posted - 2010.08.13 01:39:00 - [1] what is the most profitable thing that I can mine whit no pvp risks
Probing Sam	Posted - 2010.08.13 01:59:00 - [2] Veldspar!
Gekko N	Posted - 2010.08.13 02:20:00 - [3] Unless you can find a way to mine while docked in a station, it is impossible to mine without risk of PvP. If you actually mean mining in HighSec, then the best way to find out is to check the market to see what is worth the most.
Culmen Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.08.13 03:12:00 - [4] Edited by: Culmen on 13/08/2010 03:12:58 Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING. I have Exhumers V and access to 0.0 high end roids and it still isn't profitable enough. But if you really MUST mine, then the answer is that it varies depending on the market. Veldspars usually close to or at the top of that list. On paper Kernite usually come up on top, but the key difference is that Veldspar roids are huge and easy to find. This is a handy tool to check, but im not sure how up to date it is. I strongly suggest that you take up mission running, regardless if you want to continue mining. Mission running is good for mining because missions often spawn extremely large asteroids, usually veldspar. And you will be the only one with a book mark to start with. I've spotted Gneiss in one level 3 mission, and that blows the profitability of all other high sec roids out of the water. and further more why do i even need a sig?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.13 04:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Culmen Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING. Confirming this, especially if you're talking single character work, or even dual-boxing. Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else), and is only really profitable for 8+ accounts (because you can't keep anything else up on that many accounts at the same time if you play honestly), but by then it becomes excruciating. So, yeah, STOP MINING. Really. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.13 06:42:00 - [6] Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/08/2010 06:43:59 Originally by: Culmen But if you really MUST mine, then the answer is that it varies depending on the market. Veldspars usually close to or at the top of that list. On paper Kernite usually come up on top, but the key difference is that Veldspar roids are huge and easy to find. At the moment it's Kernite -> Plagioclase. If you mine in 0.5 and 0.6 systems there's quite a few that have huge enough asteroids of that type. Not saying where my miner is doing her job but there's quite a few systems around. Another advantage of Kernite is that if you can refine 100%, the minerals don't take up a lot of space. It refines into a few mainly expensive ones (25% Trit, 25% Isogen, 50% Mex), not tonnes of cheap minerals - so transporting them to the market is a lot easier. It doesn't make a lot of money though, a rough estimation is around 5 million an hour, even with a Hulk.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2010.08.13 09:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Miner Jotang what is the most profitable thing that I can mine whit no pvp risks This is one of the most commonly asked type of questions - so don't feel bad - but there is no answer to it. In the first place - if there was ONE thing that was the best thing to do - if you told people - it would ruin it. Everyone would do it - and then it would immediately NOT be the best thing to do. So - getting a valid answer to your question - would invalidate the answer. The real answer is almost always - it depends ... It depends on the market where you are at. It depends on how far a trade hub is from where you are at. It depends on your skills. It depends on your equipment. A few things to keep in mind. Ore is mined by the cubic meter but sold by the unit - so some ore is easier to mine than other ore and this ease of mining can effect how much of it you mine in a given amount of time. Veldspar is the simplest to mine - and this is one of the reasons it is so popular. Other Ores are often worth more per unit than Veldspar - but they take longer to mine. Raw ore will often get you the most money - but - it is difficult to transport compared to it's refined minerals. Your refining skill makes a big difference in the amount of minerals you get from your ore. Your standing with the corporation owning the station effects how much of what you refine you get to keep. Your trading skills and your standing with the corporation owning the station where you sell your ore/minerals also effects your profits. The production sequence is: Mine -> (Refine) -> (Produce) -> (Transport) -> Trade Optional The better you are at each stage of the process the more money you can make out of it - but the last part, the Trading, is the most important as that is what actually turns whatever you've got - into money. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.13 10:13:00 - [8] You can't mine without risk of pvp. Period. So the question is really, what's most profitable and where should I do it to minimize risk of pvp? 1/ Check market. Unless you plan to build stuff - when it's more like, what do I lack and how much? 2/ Find a low traffic place far from any market or mission hub with a decent amount of belts. Preferably not close to griefer/pvp locations (as in - next to Aunennen or Old Man Star might be bad).
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.13 11:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Miner Jotang what is the most profitable thing that I can mine whit no pvp risks Greed. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Generals4	Posted - 2010.08.13 11:54:00 - [10] A: take a look at these links : http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore and https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aiv73e5o_eaUdHprb0VGR0RhWjFmMzFmcjd1Wk9vX0E&hl=en#gid=6 B: try to find a good system to mine in . What does that imply? Well either one with many roids , which will most likely have a decent amount of other miners or one with not that many belts but also few people . And one in which there is a station from a corp with which you have a good standing with. Not having to pay 5% tax every time you refine your ores is something you shouldn't underestimate . C: Obviously try to get all your mining related skill maxed and get your refining related skills so that you have 0% waste while refining the ore you are mining (i went for Ref V , Ref Eff 2 and Plag processing 3 => 0% wastage for plagio) . D: Try to combine mining with manufacturing , some low tier items can be profitable to make and would increase the gain you make on your ores . But to find out which is most profitable you'll have to analyse the blueprints and market prices . I managed to increase my profit by roughly 20% on pyerite and trit by using those to create items i sell on the market afterwards. (but if you do this production efficiency 4-5 is a must and don't forget to do material efficiency researches on the blueprints , the 10% base wastage can take away all profit you could otherwise make)
My Postman	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:09:00 - [11] Edited by: My Postman on 13/08/2010 13:09:44 Answering your two questions (profitable - no pvp risk). Most profitable ore atm is plagioclase (not a big secret actually), and you can find it up to sec status 0.8. In fact i¦m note sure if found in higher sec status as well, but the roids might be smaller. You cannot undock without pvp risk, but you can set up properly. First thing is a properly tankend hulk, as it¦s the only mining vessel you can tank properly. You will sacrifice a bit of cargohold for that, so don¦t whine when getting ganked in a hulk with 2 expanded cargohold II, and cargo rigs. When fitted properly you will lough when a single dessy is trying to gank you, keep in mind that concord response is quick in 0.8. When a battleship turns on the disco lights you¦re toast anyway. Various things in between, so it¦s up to you when you turn your lazors off and your hardeners on, and gtfo. ALWAYS be aligned to a station or else. Edit: Typo
Kara Sharalien Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:23:00 - [12] Miners are unlikely to be ganked except under five circumstances: 1. you mine in a .5 or lower. Even in a badly tanked hulk, the concord response in a .6 will almost certainly be fast enough thats its gonna take about three t2 fit dessies to gank you before they arrive and save you. .7 and .8 your safety is more or less assured, unless you made an enemy. 2. you made an enemy. You're **ed, enjoy your loss mail. 3. you are at war. You're ed, enjoy your loss mail, you deserve it for undocking a flying brick during wartime. 4. you mine in a system that has many other miners in it. most of eves non-mining population cannot tell the difference between a macro and a normal miner, but never the less feels it should try to clear macros out. If you mine in a system with lots of other people, you are likely to get mistaken for a macro and gank attempts will happen. 5. you undock your hulk during hulkageddon. see 2 and 3. Originally by:** Thuul'Khalat WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:23:00 - [13] Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/08/2010 13:23:26 Originally by: My Postman You cannot undock without pvp risk, but you can set up properly. First thing is a properly tankend hulk, as it¦s the only mining vessel you can tank properly. You will sacrifice a bit of cargohold for that, so don¦t whine when getting ganked in a hulk with 2 expanded cargohold II, and cargo rigs. When fitted properly you will lough when a single dessy is trying to gank you, keep in mind that concord response is quick in 0.8. When a battleship turns on the disco lights you¦re toast anyway. Various things in between, so it¦s up to you when you turn your lazors off and your hardeners on, and gtfo. ALWAYS be aligned to a station or else. Well let's not overstimate the risk of spontanous gankers. One of my characters has been in a mainly industrial corp for 5 months now and no-one has ever been killed by random gankers. Btw I thought Kernite was the most profitable ore atm, due to the drop in Pyerite price and the high demand for Mexallon?
Celestine Santora	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Culmen Edited by: Culmen on 13/08/2010 03:12:58 Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING. Quoted for truth
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Celestine Santora Originally by: Culmen Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING. Quoted for truth When you just started EVE it's the most profitable thing you can do for a while. Next to that you can do it afk.
Hagen Guralman	Posted - 2010.08.13 18:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Akita T Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else), and is only really profitable for 8+ accounts (because you can't keep anything else up on that many accounts at the same time if you play honestly), but by then it becomes excruciating. I don't think this is accurate. Mining is plenty profitable with one character. It's just not as profitable as other activities. (I'm still pretty new to EVE, so I can't say from personal experience that it's the least profitable activity, but it seems to be the consensus that it is). Originally by: Akita T So, yeah, STOP MINING. Really. I wouldn't say quit mining, as there are a lot of reasons to mine: [] It's very simple [] It's very low start up cost (almost no ISK/skill needed) [*] It's low risk
Hagen Guralman	Posted - 2010.08.13 18:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Jennifer Fenring When you just started EVE it's the most profitable thing you can do for a while. Next to that you can do it afk. I don't think so. Missioning, even at level 1, is far more profitable than mining. However, you're correct that mining can be done while you're almost AFK. Mining is very passive and requires little input from the user, where as missioning requires players to pay attention and actually interact with the game.
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.13 19:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Hagen Guralman Missioning, even at level 1, is far more profitable than mining. It depends. With the current mineral prices I'd say that L3 missions equal mining in a Retriever at the moment. A Hulk may mine 50% more. Not sure how mining cruisers like the Osprey relate to L1 or L2 mission income.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.13 19:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Hagen Guralman Originally by: Akita T Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else)[...] Mining is plenty profitable with one character. It's just not as profitable as other activities. That's exactly what I just said. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2010.08.13 20:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Hagen Guralman Originally by: Jennifer Fenring When you just started EVE it's the most profitable thing you can do for a while. Next to that you can do it afk. I don't think so. Missioning, even at level 1, is far more profitable than mining. ... No. Even if you add in salvaging and the money you get from loot - mining as a new player makes more money. Once you get into your level 3's ... then mission running starts to compete with mining but not until them. Of course - this is on average. The results for any particular player are going to vary. Someone who is just doing Mine & Return in a Rookie ship ... is making a lot less money than someone jet canning in a Mining Cruiser. The other thing is ... what you really want to do - it to do both. Even if you are primarily a miner - you want to run missions to increase your standings with the corporation owning the base you operate out of and - to mine in mission space instead of the belts. Other factors here include how many accounts you have. I've always played multiple accounts in my online games - so I started right off with two and got some more soon after that. Nothing lends itself better to multiple accounts than mining. Now - there are people who claim they can just turn their mission ship loose, walk away and come back when it's cleaned up but I'd not do that myself - especially as a new player. Most of the guys running missions AFK have been playing long enough to know the mission and have a mission ship that can pretty much take care of itself. Mining AFK in an industrial while you are doing some thing else is easy. You won't make as much as if you were using a mining vessel but whatever you get - is more than you would have had otherwise. The big transition in early mining - is getting an industrial. Once you do that - and get away from Mine & Return - you can really start pulling in the money - compared to Level I and II mission running. Get a Destroyer or two, a Mining Cruiser and an Industrial. Run a mission in your Destroyer, Salvage it in your salvaging destroyer (swapping fits on the same ship if you want), then mine the mission space in your mining cruiser into jet cans - and come empty the jet cans in your industrial. Then turn in the mission. This is relatively safe to do as long as you do it in a quiet system where there are no Level IV Agents - which is what attract the Ninja Salvagers - who are most commonly the people out there scanning down other players. Anyone starting out can do that. You'll make more money and the investment in skills either way isn't that great. Getting into Cruisers or Retrievers isn't that hard. Once you get to Level III missions - then - you can decide if you want to primarily be a mission runner or a miner. It's the Covetors and Battlecruisers that really start to take some money and skills to get into. A lot of people have no desire whatsoever to mine - so - for them ... trying to just blitz the Level I's and II's ... while somehow getting the money for that Battlecruiser ... is what they want to do. This is all a lot easier though if you already have a character that can just give them the money. For a new person ... trying to finance a Battlecruiser off of your Level I and II rewards, bounties, loot and salvage ... isn't going to be all that easy. It would be a lot easier to finance your Battlecruiser by mining than by running Level I and II missions. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.13 22:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 13/08/2010 22:12:27 Handy ore price indicies: * Cerleste's Ore Table * BSAC Ore Income
Ke'char	Posted - 2010.08.16 10:57:00 - [22] Toshiro GreyHawk, thanks for the great post, it was very useful and answered a lot of questions that I was asking myself as a new player.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.08.16 11:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Jennifer Fenring Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/08/2010 13:23:26 Originally by: My Postman You cannot undock without pvp risk, but you can set up properly. First thing is a properly tankend hulk, as it¦s the only mining vessel you can tank properly. You will sacrifice a bit of cargohold for that, so don¦t whine when getting ganked in a hulk with 2 expanded cargohold II, and cargo rigs. When fitted properly you will lough when a single dessy is trying to gank you, keep in mind that concord response is quick in 0.8. When a battleship turns on the disco lights you¦re toast anyway. Various things in between, so it¦s up to you when you turn your lazors off and your hardeners on, and gtfo. ALWAYS be aligned to a station or else. Well let's not overstimate the risk of spontanous gankers. One of my characters has been in a mainly industrial corp for 5 months now and no-one has ever been killed by random gankers. Btw I thought Kernite was the most profitable ore atm, due to the drop in Pyerite price and the high demand for Mexallon? Mining for two years/one failed gank attempt. So you are right on this. So tanking a hulk depends on playstyle and i feel more comfortable with it. Second thing is you beat me at the kernite which is listed 113,00 isk/m3 to plagioclase 107,54 (13.8.2010 BSAC). The only thing i prefer plagio atm is because i have bigger rocks available, but that might be my region only. Btw i don¦t think you find kernite rocks 0.7 sec stat and above.
Hagen Guralman	Posted - 2010.08.16 14:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Even if you add in salvaging and the money you get from loot - mining as a new player makes more money. Once you get into your level 3's ... then mission running starts to compete with mining but not until them. I guess that depends on your definition of "new player". What's the accepted definition? Less that 2M SPs? Less than a month's playtime? In my earlier post, I was defining "new player" as someone who had just finished the missions from the 5 tutorial agents. At that point, my missioning alt was making more money than my mining alt. He was off to do the Sisters arc, the other was mining in a bantam. There's no comparaison. In this case, missioning trumps mining. Today, my characters have about 3.5M SP each, and I'm pretty sure my miner is out producing my missioner in terms of ISK. She's in a retriever, and my main is still doing L2 alts in a T1 cruiser. Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk The other thing is ... what you really want to do - it to do both. Even if you are primarily a miner - you want to run missions to increase your standings with the corporation owning the base you operate out of and - to mine in mission space instead of the belts. Agreed, it will help with refining yield. Didn't know about missing space mining. What's the benefit of this vs Belt mining? Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Other factors here include how many accounts you have. I've always played multiple accounts in my online games - so I started right off with two and got some more soon after that. Nothing lends itself better to multiple accounts than mining. Mining AFK in an industrial while you are doing some thing else is easy. You won't make as much as if you were using a mining vessel but whatever you get - is more than you would have had otherwise. Also agreed. I have 3 "industrialists" right now, two miners (one retriever, one bantam with T2s), one hauler. Eventually, that will be Orca + 2 Hulks. While these three are mining, I'm running missions with the 4th alt. Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk It would be a lot easier to finance your Battlecruiser by mining than by running Level I and II missions Probably. Although it seems to be that getting to level 3 missions isn't that hard. Can L3s generate enough money to fit battlecruisers? Not that this would stop me from running alts. My alts are there to help finance my main, but also to get into other careers faster than if I tried to do it all with my main. For example, I'd like to do some manufacturing and Invention, which have completely different skill sets than PVE/PVP. With an alt, I can get to that far faster than with only one character. Besides, if I just wanted to finance my main, it would have been cheaper to use the monthly fees to buy PLEXes instead.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.08.16 19:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Hagen Guralman Originally by: Akita T Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else)[...] Mining is plenty profitable with one character. It's just not as profitable as other activities. That's exactly what I just said. No, it's not. Your statements in this thread are that mining is unprofitable to the point that the most profitable thing one can do is stop mining, while the truth is that mining is merely less profitable than the alternatives. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Daergaar Caldari Yama Seki	Posted - 2010.08.17 02:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Mara Rinn No, it's not. Your statements in this thread are that mining is unprofitable to the point that the most profitable thing one can do is stop mining, while the truth is that mining is merely less profitable than the alternatives. Truth. It's less profitable but it still makes decent money. It will never come close to some of the hard combat areas with a lot of risks though (like wormholes). However, there are pilots in EVE who genuinely enjoy the voice chatting and social part of mining. Mining alone would be horrid. I don't mine (strictly combat), but while you're mining you could probably do a lot of trade as well, given sufficient skills.
Beki 250	Posted - 2010.08.17 11:28:00 - [27] It isn't possible to use an ore index to determine what the best ore to mine is. The ore indexes don't take several factors into consideration. Always do an ore profitability study once a month and immediately when you move to a new system. A lot of people won't, or can't do them because they require care, and mathematics, but I never start mining in a new region without one. In general I have found that, for high sec: Plag is most profitable, Scordite second. Omber/Kernite third. Pyroxeres are 4th, whatever. Also, in general, you can make more money in the market speculating on Garbage futures than you can mining Veldspar.
Duke Skinner	Posted - 2010.08.19 14:17:00 - [28] I'd also agree with quit mining. I'm a long time miner, and it's so boring. I used to enjoy it.. and I still do enjoy it every now and then. But as your primary source of income, man it gets boring quick. But I've got two accounts. My primary is combat only, and I love it. It is my first combat character and I don't think I've ever had more fun in EVE. If you do plan to move into combat, don't neglect your support skills. If you try to move into a combat cruiser too early, you will not do too good, or you will lose it. I ran all of my lvl2 missions in a dessie. And once my support skills were good enough, I moved into a a cruiser and level 3 missions. Now I make more isk than my mining account, and it's way more fun.
Natalie Caladan Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.19 14:24:00 - [29] My advice: Don't invest time into mining skills just because it may be more profitable when you just start playing. You'll lose a lot of time doing it and in the end missioning is far more profitable and for most people: more fun. Doesn't mean you can't go mining or level it to III of course.
Culmen Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.08.20 06:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Mara Rinn No, it's not. Your statements in this thread are that mining is unprofitable to the point that the most profitable thing one can do is stop mining, while the truth is that mining is merely less profitable than the alternatives. My statement was based on an assumption that was perhaps not as obvious as I thought so I'll clarify. The most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING AND START DOING SOMETHING ELSE. Id start with mission running. Mission running will get you better missions which will blow the profitability of mining out of the sky. Also even if you do for whatever reason want to continue mining (most likely a desire to go AFK). Mission running will allow you to do Mission Mining which means access to bigger and better roids then at a belt. So really, start grinding up those missions. It'll probably be more profitable in the short run, and definitely more profitable in the long run. and further more why do i even need a sig?

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