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Miner Jotang
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Posted - 2010.08.13 01:39:00 -
[1]
what is the most profitable thing that I can mine whit no pvp risks |
Probing Sam
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Posted - 2010.08.13 01:59:00 -
[2]
Veldspar! 
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Gekko N
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Posted - 2010.08.13 02:20:00 -
[3]
Unless you can find a way to mine while docked in a station, it is impossible to mine without risk of PvP.
If you actually mean mining in HighSec, then the best way to find out is to check the market to see what is worth the most.
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.08.13 03:12:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Culmen on 13/08/2010 03:12:58
Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING.
I have Exhumers V and access to 0.0 high end roids and it still isn't profitable enough.
But if you really MUST mine, then the answer is that it varies depending on the market.
Veldspars usually close to or at the top of that list.
On paper Kernite usually come up on top, but the key difference is that Veldspar roids are huge and easy to find.
This is a handy tool to check, but im not sure how up to date it is.
I strongly suggest that you take up mission running, regardless if you want to continue mining.
Mission running is good for mining because missions often spawn extremely large asteroids, usually veldspar.
And you will be the only one with a book mark to start with.
I've spotted Gneiss in one level 3 mission, and that blows the profitability of all other high sec roids out of the water.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.13 04:41:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Culmen
Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING.
Confirming this, especially if you're talking single character work, or even dual-boxing.
Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else), and is only really profitable for 8+ accounts (because you can't keep anything else up on that many accounts at the same time if you play honestly), but by then it becomes excruciating.
So, yeah, STOP MINING. Really.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.13 06:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/08/2010 06:43:59
Originally by: Culmen
But if you really MUST mine, then the answer is that it varies depending on the market. Veldspars usually close to or at the top of that list.
On paper Kernite usually come up on top, but the key difference is that Veldspar roids are huge and easy to find.
At the moment it's Kernite -> Plagioclase. If you mine in 0.5 and 0.6 systems there's quite a few that have huge enough asteroids of that type. Not saying where my miner is doing her job but there's quite a few systems around.
Another advantage of Kernite is that if you can refine 100%, the minerals don't take up a lot of space. It refines into a few mainly expensive ones (25% Trit, 25% Isogen, 50% Mex), not tonnes of cheap minerals - so transporting them to the market is a lot easier.
It doesn't make a lot of money though, a rough estimation is around 5 million an hour, even with a Hulk.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.08.13 09:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Miner Jotang
what is the most profitable thing that I can mine whit no pvp risks
This is one of the most commonly asked type of questions - so don't feel bad - but there is no answer to it.
In the first place - if there was ONE thing that was the best thing to do - if you told people - it would ruin it. Everyone would do it - and then it would immediately NOT be the best thing to do.
So - getting a valid answer to your question - would invalidate the answer.
The real answer is almost always - it depends ...
It depends on the market where you are at.
It depends on how far a trade hub is from where you are at.
It depends on your skills.
It depends on your equipment.
A few things to keep in mind.
Ore is mined by the cubic meter but sold by the unit - so some ore is easier to mine than other ore and this ease of mining can effect how much of it you mine in a given amount of time. Veldspar is the simplest to mine - and this is one of the reasons it is so popular. Other Ores are often worth more per unit than Veldspar - but they take longer to mine.
Raw ore will often get you the most money - but - it is difficult to transport compared to it's refined minerals.
Your refining skill makes a big difference in the amount of minerals you get from your ore.
Your standing with the corporation owning the station effects how much of what you refine you get to keep.
Your trading skills and your standing with the corporation owning the station where you sell your ore/minerals also effects your profits.
The production sequence is:
Mine -> (*Refine) -> (*Produce) -> (*Transport) -> Trade
*Optional
The better you are at each stage of the process the more money you can make out of it - but the last part, the Trading, is the most important as that is what actually turns whatever you've got - into money.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Hakkar'al Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.13 10:13:00 -
[8]
You can't mine without risk of pvp. Period.
So the question is really, what's most profitable and where should I do it to minimize risk of pvp?
1/ Check market. Unless you plan to build stuff - when it's more like, what do I lack and how much?
2/ Find a low traffic place far from any market or mission hub with a decent amount of belts. Preferably not close to griefer/pvp locations (as in - next to Aunennen or Old Man Star might be bad).
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.13 11:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Miner Jotang
what is the most profitable thing that I can mine whit no pvp risks
Greed.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Generals4
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Posted - 2010.08.13 11:54:00 -
[10]
A: take a look at these links : http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore and https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aiv73e5o_eaUdHprb0VGR0RhWjFmMzFmcjd1Wk9vX0E&hl=en#gid=6
B: try to find a good system to mine in . What does that imply? Well either one with many roids , which will most likely have a decent amount of other miners or one with not that many belts but also few people . And one in which there is a station from a corp with which you have a good standing with. Not having to pay 5% tax every time you refine your ores is something you shouldn't underestimate .
C: Obviously try to get all your mining related skill maxed and get your refining related skills so that you have 0% waste while refining the ore you are mining (i went for Ref V , Ref Eff 2 and Plag processing 3 => 0% wastage for plagio) .
D: Try to combine mining with manufacturing , some low tier items can be profitable to make and would increase the gain you make on your ores . But to find out which is most profitable you'll have to analyse the blueprints and market prices . I managed to increase my profit by roughly 20% on pyerite and trit by using those to create items i sell on the market afterwards. (but if you do this production efficiency 4-5 is a must and don't forget to do material efficiency researches on the blueprints , the 10% base wastage can take away all profit you could otherwise make)
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: My Postman on 13/08/2010 13:09:44
Answering your two questions (profitable - no pvp risk).
Most profitable ore atm is plagioclase (not a big secret actually), and you can find it up to sec status 0.8. In fact i¦m note sure if found in higher sec status as well, but the roids might be smaller.
You cannot undock without pvp risk, but you can set up properly. First thing is a properly tankend hulk, as it¦s the only mining vessel you can tank properly.
You will sacrifice a bit of cargohold for that, so don¦t whine when getting ganked in a hulk with 2 expanded cargohold II, and cargo rigs.
When fitted properly you will lough when a single dessy is trying to gank you, keep in mind that concord response is quick in 0.8.
When a battleship turns on the disco lights you¦re toast anyway. Various things in between, so it¦s up to you when you turn your lazors off and your hardeners on, and gtfo.
ALWAYS be aligned to a station or else.
Edit: Typo
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Kara Sharalien
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:23:00 -
[12]
Miners are unlikely to be ganked except under five circumstances:
1. you mine in a .5 or lower.
Even in a badly tanked hulk, the concord response in a .6 will almost certainly be fast enough thats its gonna take about three t2 fit dessies to gank you before they arrive and save you. .7 and .8 your safety is more or less assured, unless you made an enemy.
2. you made an enemy.
You're ****ed, enjoy your loss mail.
3. you are at war.
You're ****ed, enjoy your loss mail, you deserve it for undocking a flying brick during wartime.
4. you mine in a system that has many other miners in it.
most of eves non-mining population cannot tell the difference between a macro and a normal miner, but never the less feels it should try to clear macros out. If you mine in a system with lots of other people, you are likely to get mistaken for a macro and gank attempts will happen.
5. you undock your hulk during hulkageddon.
see 2 and 3.
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat
WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
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Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/08/2010 13:23:26
Originally by: My Postman
You cannot undock without pvp risk, but you can set up properly. First thing is a properly tankend hulk, as it¦s the only mining vessel you can tank properly.
You will sacrifice a bit of cargohold for that, so don¦t whine when getting ganked in a hulk with 2 expanded cargohold II, and cargo rigs.
When fitted properly you will lough when a single dessy is trying to gank you, keep in mind that concord response is quick in 0.8.
When a battleship turns on the disco lights you¦re toast anyway. Various things in between, so it¦s up to you when you turn your lazors off and your hardeners on, and gtfo.
ALWAYS be aligned to a station or else.
Well let's not overstimate the risk of spontanous gankers. One of my characters has been in a mainly industrial corp for 5 months now and no-one has ever been killed by random gankers.
Btw I thought Kernite was the most profitable ore atm, due to the drop in Pyerite price and the high demand for Mexallon?
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Celestine Santora
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 13/08/2010 03:12:58
Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING.
Quoted for truth
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Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.13 13:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Celestine Santora
Originally by: Culmen
Trust me, the most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING.
Quoted for truth
When you just started EVE it's the most profitable thing you can do for a while. Next to that you can do it afk.
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Hagen Guralman
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Posted - 2010.08.13 18:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else), and is only really profitable for 8+ accounts (because you can't keep anything else up on that many accounts at the same time if you play honestly), but by then it becomes excruciating.
I don't think this is accurate. Mining is plenty profitable with one character. It's just not as profitable as other activities. (I'm still pretty new to EVE, so I can't say from personal experience that it's the least profitable activity, but it seems to be the consensus that it is).
Originally by: Akita T
So, yeah, STOP MINING. Really.
I wouldn't say quit mining, as there are a lot of reasons to mine:
[*] It's very simple
[*] It's very low start up cost (almost no ISK/skill needed)
[*] It's low risk
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Hagen Guralman
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Posted - 2010.08.13 18:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
When you just started EVE it's the most profitable thing you can do for a while. Next to that you can do it afk.
I don't think so. Missioning, even at level 1, is far more profitable than mining. However, you're correct that mining can be done while you're almost AFK. Mining is very passive and requires little input from the user, where as missioning requires players to pay attention and actually interact with the game.
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Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.13 19:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hagen Guralman
Missioning, even at level 1, is far more profitable than mining.
It depends. With the current mineral prices I'd say that L3 missions equal mining in a Retriever at the moment. A Hulk may mine 50% more. Not sure how mining cruisers like the Osprey relate to L1 or L2 mission income.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.13 19:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hagen Guralman
Originally by: Akita T
Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else)[...]
Mining is plenty profitable with one character. It's just not as profitable as other activities.
That's exactly what I just said.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.08.13 20:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hagen Guralman
Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
When you just started EVE it's the most profitable thing you can do for a while. Next to that you can do it afk.
I don't think so. Missioning, even at level 1, is far more profitable than mining. ...
No.
Even if you add in salvaging and the money you get from loot - mining as a new player makes more money. Once you get into your level 3's ... then mission running starts to compete with mining but not until them.
Of course - this is on average. The results for any particular player are going to vary. Someone who is just doing Mine & Return in a Rookie ship ... is making a lot less money than someone jet canning in a Mining Cruiser.
The other thing is ... what you really want to do - it to do both. Even if you are primarily a miner - you want to run missions to increase your standings with the corporation owning the base you operate out of and - to mine in mission space instead of the belts.
Other factors here include how many accounts you have. I've always played multiple accounts in my online games - so I started right off with two and got some more soon after that. Nothing lends itself better to multiple accounts than mining.
Now - there are people who claim they can just turn their mission ship loose, walk away and come back when it's cleaned up but I'd not do that myself - especially as a new player. Most of the guys running missions AFK have been playing long enough to know the mission and have a mission ship that can pretty much take care of itself.
Mining AFK in an industrial while you are doing some thing else is easy. You won't make as much as if you were using a mining vessel but whatever you get - is more than you would have had otherwise.
The big transition in early mining - is getting an industrial. Once you do that - and get away from Mine & Return - you can really start pulling in the money - compared to Level I and II mission running.
Get a Destroyer or two, a Mining Cruiser and an Industrial. Run a mission in your Destroyer, Salvage it in your salvaging destroyer (swapping fits on the same ship if you want), then mine the mission space in your mining cruiser into jet cans - and come empty the jet cans in your industrial. Then turn in the mission. This is relatively safe to do as long as you do it in a quiet system where there are no Level IV Agents - which is what attract the Ninja Salvagers - who are most commonly the people out there scanning down other players.
Anyone starting out can do that. You'll make more money and the investment in skills either way isn't that great. Getting into Cruisers or Retrievers isn't that hard. Once you get to Level III missions - then - you can decide if you want to primarily be a mission runner or a miner.
It's the Covetors and Battlecruisers that really start to take some money and skills to get into.
A lot of people have no desire whatsoever to mine - so - for them ... trying to just blitz the Level I's and II's ... while somehow getting the money for that Battlecruiser ... is what they want to do. This is all a lot easier though if you already have a character that can just give them the money. For a new person ... trying to finance a Battlecruiser off of your Level I and II rewards, bounties, loot and salvage ... isn't going to be all that easy. It would be a lot easier to finance your Battlecruiser by mining than by running Level I and II missions.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.13 22:12:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 13/08/2010 22:12:27
Handy ore price indicies:
* Cerleste's Ore Table
* BSAC Ore Income
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Ke'char
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Posted - 2010.08.16 10:57:00 -
[22]
Toshiro GreyHawk, thanks for the great post, it was very useful and answered a lot of questions that I was asking myself as a new player.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.08.16 11:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/08/2010 13:23:26
Originally by: My Postman
You cannot undock without pvp risk, but you can set up properly. First thing is a properly tankend hulk, as it¦s the only mining vessel you can tank properly.
You will sacrifice a bit of cargohold for that, so don¦t whine when getting ganked in a hulk with 2 expanded cargohold II, and cargo rigs.
When fitted properly you will lough when a single dessy is trying to gank you, keep in mind that concord response is quick in 0.8.
When a battleship turns on the disco lights you¦re toast anyway. Various things in between, so it¦s up to you when you turn your lazors off and your hardeners on, and gtfo.
ALWAYS be aligned to a station or else.
Well let's not overstimate the risk of spontanous gankers. One of my characters has been in a mainly industrial corp for 5 months now and no-one has ever been killed by random gankers.
Btw I thought Kernite was the most profitable ore atm, due to the drop in Pyerite price and the high demand for Mexallon?
Mining for two years/one failed gank attempt. So you are right on this. So tanking a hulk depends on playstyle and i feel more comfortable with it.
Second thing is you beat me at the kernite which is listed 113,00 isk/m3 to plagioclase 107,54 (13.8.2010 BSAC). The only thing i prefer plagio atm is because i have bigger rocks available, but that might be my region only.
Btw i don¦t think you find kernite rocks 0.7 sec stat and above.
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Hagen Guralman
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Posted - 2010.08.16 14:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Even if you add in salvaging and the money you get from loot - mining as a new player makes more money. Once you get into your level 3's ... then mission running starts to compete with mining but not until them.
I guess that depends on your definition of "new player". What's the accepted definition? Less that 2M SPs? Less than a month's playtime? In my earlier post, I was defining "new player" as someone who had just finished the missions from the 5 tutorial agents. At that point, my missioning alt was making more money than my mining alt. He was off to do the Sisters arc, the other was mining in a bantam. There's no comparaison. In this case, missioning trumps mining.
Today, my characters have about 3.5M SP each, and I'm pretty sure my miner is out producing my missioner in terms of ISK. She's in a retriever, and my main is still doing L2 alts in a T1 cruiser.
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
The other thing is ... what you really want to do - it to do both. Even if you are primarily a miner - you want to run missions to increase your standings with the corporation owning the base you operate out of and - to mine in mission space instead of the belts.
Agreed, it will help with refining yield. Didn't know about missing space mining. What's the benefit of this vs Belt mining?
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Other factors here include how many accounts you have. I've always played multiple accounts in my online games - so I started right off with two and got some more soon after that. Nothing lends itself better to multiple accounts than mining. Mining AFK in an industrial while you are doing some thing else is easy. You won't make as much as if you were using a mining vessel but whatever you get - is more than you would have had otherwise.
Also agreed. I have 3 "industrialists" right now, two miners (one retriever, one bantam with T2s), one hauler. Eventually, that will be Orca + 2 Hulks. While these three are mining, I'm running missions with the 4th alt.
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
It would be a lot easier to finance your Battlecruiser by mining than by running Level I and II missions
Probably. Although it seems to be that getting to level 3 missions isn't that hard. Can L3s generate enough money to fit battlecruisers?
Not that this would stop me from running alts. My alts are there to help finance my main, but also to get into other careers faster than if I tried to do it all with my main. For example, I'd like to do some manufacturing and Invention, which have completely different skill sets than PVE/PVP. With an alt, I can get to that far faster than with only one character.
Besides, if I just wanted to finance my main, it would have been cheaper to use the monthly fees to buy PLEXes instead. 
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.16 19:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Hagen Guralman
Originally by: Akita T
Mining MIGHT become profitable on 4 accounts (depends on how many accounts you could actively use to do something else)[...]
Mining is plenty profitable with one character. It's just not as profitable as other activities.
That's exactly what I just said.
No, it's not.
Your statements in this thread are that mining is unprofitable to the point that the most profitable thing one can do is stop mining, while the truth is that mining is merely less profitable than the alternatives.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Daergaar
Caldari
Yama Seki
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
No, it's not.
Your statements in this thread are that mining is unprofitable to the point that the most profitable thing one can do is stop mining, while the truth is that mining is merely less profitable than the alternatives.
Truth. It's less profitable but it still makes decent money. It will never come close to some of the hard combat areas with a lot of risks though (like wormholes). However, there are pilots in EVE who genuinely enjoy the voice chatting and social part of mining. Mining alone would be horrid. I don't mine (strictly combat), but while you're mining you could probably do a lot of trade as well, given sufficient skills.
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Beki 250
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Posted - 2010.08.17 11:28:00 -
[27]
It isn't possible to use an ore index to determine what the best ore to mine is. The ore indexes don't take several factors into consideration.
Always do an ore profitability study once a month and immediately when you move to a new system.
A lot of people won't, or can't do them because they require care, and mathematics, but I never start mining in a new region without one.
In general I have found that, for high sec: Plag is most profitable, Scordite second. Omber/Kernite third. Pyroxeres are 4th, whatever.
Also, in general, you can make more money in the market speculating on Garbage futures than you can mining Veldspar.
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Duke Skinner
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Posted - 2010.08.19 14:17:00 -
[28]
I'd also agree with quit mining. I'm a long time miner, and it's so boring. I used to enjoy it.. and I still do enjoy it every now and then. But as your primary source of income, man it gets boring quick.
But I've got two accounts. My primary is combat only, and I love it. It is my first combat character and I don't think I've ever had more fun in EVE. If you do plan to move into combat, don't neglect your support skills. If you try to move into a combat cruiser too early, you will not do too good, or you will lose it. I ran all of my lvl2 missions in a dessie. And once my support skills were good enough, I moved into a a cruiser and level 3 missions. Now I make more isk than my mining account, and it's way more fun.
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Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.19 14:24:00 -
[29]
My advice:
Don't invest time into mining skills just because it may be more profitable when you just start playing. You'll lose a lot of time doing it and in the end missioning is far more profitable and for most people: more fun.
Doesn't mean you can't go mining or level it to III of course.
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.08.20 06:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
No, it's not.
Your statements in this thread are that mining is unprofitable to the point that the most profitable thing one can do is stop mining, while the truth is that mining is merely less profitable than the alternatives.
My statement was based on an assumption that was perhaps not as obvious as I thought
so I'll clarify.
The most profitable thing to do is TO STOP MINING AND START DOING SOMETHING ELSE.
Id start with mission running.
Mission running will get you better missions which will blow the profitability of mining out of the sky.
Also even if you do for whatever reason want to continue mining (most likely a desire to go AFK).
Mission running will allow you to do Mission Mining which means access to bigger and better roids then at a belt.
So really, start grinding up those missions. It'll probably be more profitable in the short run, and definitely more profitable in the long run.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Eve Industrialist
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Posted - 2010.08.20 22:27:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Eve Industrialist on 20/08/2010 22:28:51
Edited by: Eve Industrialist on 20/08/2010 22:26:57
Simple answer to your question (and it's NOT Veldspar anymore!) What to mine, ranked by ore type:
http://eve-industrialist.com/
Always updated from current Jita mineral prices from Eve-Central.
And once you make enough isk mining, maybe you would consider for only 3m a month getting a subscription account that gives you access to prices other than Jita or the ability to save your own prices for future use, for ultra-accurate results.
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Beki 250
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Posted - 2010.08.21 11:23:00 -
[32]
Eve Industrialist, I'm not sniping (for a change) but do your indices take in to consideration time required to mine the different ore types, and ore or mineral volume for transport purposes (number of trips to market)?
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Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.21 12:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Beki 250
Eve Industrialist, I'm not sniping (for a change) but do your indices take in to consideration time required to mine the different ore types, and ore or mineral volume for transport purposes (number of trips to market)?
Not very likely, it seems to be the 100% refining mineral price multiplied by the average current market prices.
Must say I like Kernite to be the most profitable now - only refines in a small amount of (relatively) expensive minerals, easy to transport!
Much better than Scordite.
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Halle 9000
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Posted - 2010.08.21 12:20:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Halle 9000 on 21/08/2010 12:23:46
Just a thought. But given the change in character creation that came with Dominion, are we seeing far less new characters with mining skills? Most of the miners I see these days in covetors/hulks are pre-dominion characters...
For example, my mining alt started with Mining and Industry at 5.
EDIT: grammar
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ACY GTMI
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Posted - 2010.08.22 11:18:00 -
[35]
I don't know when Dominion was. I started playing in July of 2009. It doesn't seem to me that my character(s) had any attributes that were especially high, or low.
It's an interesting question, though.
I do see new miners fairly regularly, though. Possibly not as many as some of the other fields, but they're there.
I don't see how anyone can consider mining boring. Of course I fly two Covetors, an Iteron V and 10 mining drones. 
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Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.22 11:22:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ACY GTMI
I don't see how anyone can consider mining boring. Of course I fly two Covetors, an Iteron V and 10 mining drones.
I don't see how anyone can consider mining NOT boring. 
Once my combat character has trained to decently do L4s I'll transfer my miner/indy/R+D/inventor/Manufacturer to my main account - or sell her.
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ACY GTMI
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Posted - 2010.08.23 11:38:00 -
[37]
What I meant was that I have three accounts. I fly all that stuff at the same time. After 6 months of practice I still have too many mining lasers going silent. It's a lot of screen changing, and activity, but I guess some people might find that boring, too.
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Zarutha
Amarr
The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.10.23 05:15:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Zarutha on 23/10/2010 05:18:49
I agree there is something contemplative about mining, at least in empire. I find it relaxing, but not boring.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.10.23 12:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Hagen Guralman
Stuff I cut out so I'd have room to reply.
What a new player is varies. First off - you have the people just starting the game. For those people mining is much more profitable and easy to get into than anything else. 20k will get you a mining frigate and repackaging and then assembling your rookie ship will get you two free Civilian Miners. That has got to be the cheapest equipment cost per amount of money earned. Expanded Cargo Hold I's are cheap and you get some for free once you start your career funnel.
This is the thread I made on starting over: Up From The Ashes which shows some of the things you can do.
The thing is - you can get an Industrial and a Mining Cruiser fairly quickly even starting out. If you're jet can mining in an Osprey or a Scythe - you will be way out producing anything you could be making on Level I missions at that point.
Yes - being in a Retriever is going to out produce Level II missions.
As to when I'd consider a player to no longer be "new" ... that just gradually changes. A real new player - doesn't know anything. A more experienced player - knows something about the things they've been doing - but still may be fairly ignorant about others. *shrug*
As to the difference between mining in belts or mission space - mining in mission space - anyone wanting to mess with you has to go to the trouble to have Combat Scanner Probes - and scan you down. For the most part - the people who do that - are Ninja Salvagers - who are NOT looking for miners but Level IV Mission Runners. So - if you mine in a quiet system - with no level IV agents - then your chances of being scanned down are very slim (unless of course someone is specifically out to get you).
Here's something I wrote on the difference between using GSC's and Jet Cans.
You can jet can in the belts and I still do on occasion - but you have to pay a lot more attention to what you're doing and would be taking a lot more chances doing some things you can do with relative safety in mission space. If you are in a quiet system - then you can often jet can with out getting flipped but I don't like getting flipped (it ****es me off) so I don't do that.
In the belts - I prefer to use a Miner and a Hauler (at least one of each).
In mission space - I can solo jet can in relative safety and just come pick it up when I want with my industrial.
As to buying a Battle Cruiser by running Level III's - yeah it shouldn't take that long running Level III's to afford a Battle Cruiser - your problem is - you should probably be in a Battle Cruiser (or at least have one available) when you start running Level III's. *shrug* All that depends on your skills and experience as well as the particular missions you get but Level III's are generally considered Battle Cruiser Level Missions. Of course - if you are a dedicated mission runner - you don't really have any choice but to grind Level II's until you get the money - or take a chance and try a Level III. Here - you may be safer trying that with an agent that is going to give more courier missions than combat.
As to the other posters who find mining boring - well hell ... that is only true for individuals who find it boring. Those people should do something else. But - here's a clue - not everyone is the same. For myself - I find Mission Running to be more boring than mining.
The thing is compared to PVP - neither is all that exciting.
However, what I really find boring - is doing that same damn thing all the time. EVE has a lot of different things you can do - and I like to fool around with a number of them.
As to making money - Trading is how I make most of my money. I like trading the least - just buying, selling and hauling ... is really boring to ME ... but what the hell *shrug*.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Jenny Cameron
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.23 13:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zarutha
I agree there is something contemplative about mining, at least in empire. I find it relaxing, but not boring.
Afk mining isn't boring. You don't want to know how many TV series and movies I've seen while mining! 
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Zarutha
Amarr
The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.10.24 07:08:00 -
[41]
Your totally right, you can mine with 10% of your attention - I've done a lot of cool stuff while mining and none of it was at the computer!
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.24 12:04:00 -
[42]
It *might* be isk, train a miner to hulk, making use of the remaps, learning skills, and at least +3 implants then sell it in the character bazaar. I say might because I don't know the going rate for a hulk pilot or the total costs involved but that certainly will get you minimal pvp risks, but not none as there is competition and that is the nature of pvp.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Minarete
Amarr
Ripstart Technologies
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Posted - 2010.10.25 16:20:00 -
[43]
All very Interesting, I want to add my 2 cents
I play Multiple accounts, not everyone can do that or has the hardware etc.
I was running level 4s on char that has about 15 mil SP all weekend, he earned about 60-100m per day, was not really keeping track that closely and was not really "Pushing" it and I dont even know how many hours that was.
At the same time.... I was also running an Ice Miner on another much older machine, very easy mining lol, he does about 500 cubes a day when I am multiboxing on the weekends, and thats about 35-40 mil before refineing. I only have to check this miner about every 20-25 minutes
And on another machine.. I was running 2 Mineral Miners, just taking Kernite/Peroxers & Scoradite, those 2 combined in the 2 day weekend brought in 250mil total in the 2 days
All this time, I was like some crazy Octapus running it all, but maybe someone can see the $$$ difference
Note: remember, the numbers below and not while playing aggressivly!!
1 Ice Miner 30-40 mil a day
1 Mineral Miner roughly 50 mil per day
1 level 4 mission runner 50-100 mil per day
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Beki 250
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Posted - 2010.10.26 19:16:00 -
[44]
Minarete, that seems totally reasonable, and I understand the octopus part.
I'm glad that you mentioned what most people leave out. The missions were Level 4. It takes time and skills to get to Level 4s. The blanket statement that 'running missions is more profitable than mining' just strikes me the wrong way.
Suppose your skills put you at Level 2, and you are flying Caldari. An Osprey can bring in more than 6 m3 of ore per second from mining, while a Caracal would be bringing in maybe 400-500,000 ISK per hour. I think the relative profitability would be different from the scenario that you tested. (I say 400-500k ISK per hour because that's what I make when I run level 2s.)
Another situation that a lot of people run into is dropping mission levels when you change agents. For instance, you move to a new area and are trying to get your standings up at the station where you refine. You might be flying a Hulk by then, but even if you run the Level 2 missions in a Battleship, you're still going to be making about the same amount from the missions as you did earlier, when you were flying a Caracal. At the same time, the Hulk should be producing more than 18 M3 of ore per second, and filling a can in what, half an hour or so?
Thanks very much for doing that, though. It's rare to see test data like that in support of a position in these forums.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.10.27 11:55:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 27/10/2010 11:57:05
There are a number of different things that I have done using various numbers of accounts:
1) Running Missions with one or two accounts. If you have more you start to have trouble keeping up with targeting new rats ... so that the extra ships are wasted. You can have this problem with even two accounts. You can however have one account running the mission while another loiters somewhere like a safe spot and then swoops in to salvage. You can also try salvaging as you run the mission - which works OK as long as the rats are spawning away from where the salvager is.
2) Running Missions with one or two accounts while you mine AFK in industrials with any number of others. Putting mining upgrades on the indies and T2 miners gives them a moderate production rate, while their holds give them a decent capacity (which translates into time between checking on them). Putting a mining scanner in their mids lets you pick out a nice fat asteroid so it will last longer. Check your miners - run a mission - repeat.
3) Belt Mining with multiple accounts using jet cans for transfer. Here, keeping a jet can open with a book mark you can have multiple miners putting ore into the jet can and multiple haulers taking it out. You want to always have a hauler available to take the ore out so you can't be flipped. If someone comes into your belt - do a look on them with your POV at their stern so you can see if they are heading for your can. If they do, pull the bookmark and pop the can. If you don't trash talk them they will usually go away and bother someone who is less alert. You need to have at least two tabs in your over view for this. One which doesn't show any rocks - which is the one you look at 99% of the time. Then another that you change over to to pick your next rock. You want to have at least one extra rock targeted so that you can switch your lasers to it when their previous rock expires. One big disadvantage of this is the cluster of ships about the jet can makes you vulnerable to smart bomb attacks - though this isn't as bad as it was when the transfer range was only 1500 meters. Having an Orca here helps. To keep from interference with each other (mining the same rock) it helps to have different ships mining different ores. This isn't as efficient as just mining the best ore for sale but has efficiency advantages for hauling and doesn't matter if you are producing as you'll need all the minerals anyway. This does limit the number of miners you have to the number of ores present - but you can have some take the far ores and some the short - which you'll be doing anyway as some ore types run out. Spreading your ship groups out increases the efficiency of the mining but decreases drastically the efficiency of the hauling and hauling becomes the bottleneck. A major disadvantage here is that if you get to busy - you may not notice someone coming into your space and get flipped.
4) Mission Space mining with multiple miners and haulers works a lot better, especially if you have an Orca. You can run your miners off to different parts of the mission space and have them fill jet cans. If you are in a quiet system with no level IV agents your chances of being scanned down are slim so having all those full jet cans with no hauler nearby is much safer. You can use Industrials with tractor beams or destroyers with tractor beams to gather the jet cans or you can use an Orca. If you use an Orca - you can use it's 70km Tractor range to pull the jet cans to it - then use Industrials to do the hauling back and forth to the base while the Orca stays and uses it's gang modules to boost the miners - or - you can haul with the Orca itself. Here ... you're numbers of miners/haulers/orcas can effect what will work best for you. Disadvantage - you have to run missions or probe gravity sites before you can start mining.
Multiple monitors help. You can put the task bar on one and the game on the other or window.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
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