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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.16 23:34:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/08/2010 23:34:06
 Originally by: King Aires
No, hauling goods to market and hauling goods needed to turn LP into isk is a large time sink that should be included in any mission-isk equation. He bypasses this by hiring outside help. He is no longer working alone to gather his isk, has nothing to do with who he sells it to it has to do with how he gets his stuff to sell.
ISK/Hr = Your ISK / Your Time. He isn't hauling the ****, therefore it would be wrong of him to include that time. Sorry that you feel he "cheated".
-Liang
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King Aires
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.17 00:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/08/2010 23:34:06
Originally by: King Aires
No, hauling goods to market and hauling goods needed to turn LP into isk is a large time sink that should be included in any mission-isk equation. He bypasses this by hiring outside help. He is no longer working alone to gather his isk, has nothing to do with who he sells it to it has to do with how he gets his stuff to sell.
ISK/Hr = Your ISK / Your Time. He isn't hauling the ****, therefore it would be wrong of him to include that time. Sorry that you feel he "cheated".
-Liang
lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.
The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
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Builder Robert
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Posted - 2010.08.17 01:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: King Aires
lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.
Why do something that decreases your earning power, increases effort/time invested and provides nothing when you can use in game features that ANYONE else can utilise to do it for you? Because you can't think for yourself and only earn 7m/hour I expect. I doubted Frozean at first because he made stupid jokes in local and was ever so full of himself, I'll have to read the spreadsheet myself now then possibly reconsider my position :)
I have a question if you don't mind. Have you tried out Cargo Delivery and Recon 1-2/3 in a shuttle? Damn easy and very quick.
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King Aires
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:03:00 -
[64]
Edited by: King Aires on 17/08/2010 02:04:08
Originally by: Builder Robert
Originally by: King Aires
lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.
Why do something that decreases your earning power, increases effort/time invested and provides nothing when you can use in game features that ANYONE else can utilise to do it for you? Because you can't think for yourself and only earn 7m/hour I expect. I doubted Frozean at first because he made stupid jokes in local and was ever so full of himself, I'll have to read the spreadsheet myself now then possibly reconsider my position :)
I have a question if you don't mind. Have you tried out Cargo Delivery and Recon 1-2/3 in a shuttle? Damn easy and very quick.
Double Facepalm time...
I hate these alts who can't comprehend what I am saying because they think there is either a black and a white response.
I just said I think his idea to use the cargo hauling people is great. I just said if he did not he would lose isk. I just applauded him for doing that instead of hauling for himself. All I am saying is, it is no longer a single player activity when you involve other players in your adventure. Having corp mates, hauling services or a macro haul your stuff for you negates your ability to claim solo isk. Yes he makes a lot of isk, with the help of another corporation. No he does not earn all that isk alone. Hell he isn't even using an alt to haul, he is actually using a physically separate human entity.
Seriously you lot cannot be this dumb 
EDIT: Oh and little alt, take a look at my standings before you start asking if I know how to run missions. You see that, yeah, it's before my social skills and I bet you cant even count that high. 
The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
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Builder Robert
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:10:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Builder Robert on 17/08/2010 02:20:55
Originally by: King Aires
Double Facepalm time...
I hate these alts who can't comprehend what I am saying because they think there is either a black and a white response.
I just said I think his idea to use the cargo hauling people is great. I just said if he did not he would lose isk. I just applauded him for doing that instead of hauling for himself. All I am saying is, it is no longer a single player activity when you involve other players in your adventure. Having corp mates, hauling services or a macro haul your stuff for you negates your ability to claim solo isk. Yes he makes a lot of isk, with the help of another corporation. No he does not earn all that isk alone. Hell he isn't even using an alt to haul, he is actually using a physically separate human entity.
Seriously you lot cannot be this dumb
EDIT: Oh and little alt, take a look at my standings before you start asking if I know how to run missions. You see that, yeah, it's before my social skills and I bet you cant even count that high.
So by your logic he must do EVERYTHING by himself, in an MMO? Make his own ammo, modules and so on. He must buy his own modules from ISK he has earnt himself (he can't use buy PLEX with RL money because it wouldn't only be Frozean it'd be the guy behind him then)
Yes I am an alt but no, I am not Frozean's alt. It is completely irrelevant and you're just grasping at straws because someone is excelling where you cannot; it's human nature. I still think he's a **** but perhaps once I read the spreadsheet he won't be a BSing **** to me.
EDIT: Oh and little man, I took a look at your standings after I posted and I will ask, do you know how to run missions? I saw them, yeah, and they're before your social skills, I don't think I can count that high but really all standings mean is that you have done a lot of missions so I don't particularly care :)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:34:00 -
[66]
Originally by: King Aires
lol, I don't want him to include the time you dumbass, I want him to admit he isn't making that isk solo. If he actually hauled the crap himself his isk/hr would drop significantly. I think he is doing it right, except for the part where he claims he makes the isk solo.
So if I use faction ammo and I buy it off the market (instead of wasting my own LP on it), I'm not making my ISK/hr solo right? If I buy my marauder off the market instead of making it myself, I'm not making it solo right? If I buy the minerals for my marauder that I built myself, instead of mining them myself, I'm not making it solo right?
He's doing it right. Its not costing him time. He's reporting it correctly.
Get.
The.
****.
Over.
It.
You.
Are.
Wrong.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:56:00 -
[67]
Troll is obviously troll. (Did I do it right?)
Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.17 03:29:00 -
[68]
Originally by: King Aires
Having corp mates, hauling services or a macro haul your stuff for you negates your ability to claim solo isk. Yes he makes a lot of isk, with the help of another corporation. No he does not earn all that isk alone. Hell he isn't even using an alt to haul, he is actually using a physically separate human entity.
So creating a courier contract negates a claim of solo isk?
Red Frog is a bit different than using corp mates. RF is a public company that provides a service for a fee and makes courier contracts more practical. Anyone in high sec can use them.
Because they're public, prevalent, and piggy back on existing contract mechanics, I'm of the opinion that they don't negate a claim of solo isk.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.17 03:45:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Frozean on 17/08/2010 03:46:15
Sec guys,
Okay. Lets say i am forced to haul myself.
My theoretical solution, is to skill up for Large industrials, i know some that can carry 860,000m3 of cargo.
Then instead of using RF Freight, with my current earning of up to 20,000 m3 of loot a day, it will take around at most 43 days for it to fill up (dont refine!!)
Now every 43 days, you carry all your loot to the market hub, and carry all your tags back into your mission running site.
As per normal use marketing and trading skills to accumulate tags from the nearest market hub, and buy 43 days worth of tags and ammo to bring back.
So lets say, i play 6.5 hours a day to generate my desired LP store items one run a day, and it goes on for 43 days.
In normal circumstance, i will be spending 6.5*43= 279.5 hours mission running
Now lets say it takes 2 hour back and from your market hub, so i will be instead, spending 6.5*43+2 = 281.5
By simple division, this theoratical setup will cause me to earn 0.99289520426288 * 86m real isk/hour which is 85.388987566607m
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King Aires
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.17 11:06:00 -
[70]
It has got nothing to do with what you buy off the market whether you are solo or not. It is the activity that makes you earn isk solo. People are expected to buy things from the market and still consider their isk making activity solo. The activity of hauling needs to be done by the player in order for him to include the benefits of it as solo isk.
Using your guys theory my solo miner in high sec makes 30mil an hour. Do not bother worrying about the full boosted orca or the hauler alt I have, the miner himself is making 30mil an hour. That would plain out be a wrong statement. The correct statement is "I make X isk with a little help from some friends"
The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
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Manipulator General
o.0
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Posted - 2010.08.17 12:19:00 -
[71]
King Aires, that's some serious nit-picking you're doing. The service he's using might as well be some NPC courier service. It's not his alt. They're not even his friends. Not knowing how RF Freight works, I'd wager he doesn't even have to talk to them in any way, therefore, it might as well be an automated service. A service we all have access to, and one we'd be wise to use, I guess.
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Carthus Sondale
Gallente
Power and Water
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Posted - 2010.08.17 14:49:00 -
[72]
It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"
When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.
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Builder Robert
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Posted - 2010.08.17 15:24:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Frozean
Edited by: Frozean on 17/08/2010 03:46:15
Sec guys,
Okay. Lets say i am forced to haul myself.
My theoretical solution, is to skill up for Large industrials, i know some that can carry 860,000m3 of cargo.
Then instead of using RF Freight, with my current earning of up to 20,000 m3 of loot a day, it will take around at most 43 days for it to fill up (dont refine!!)
Now every 43 days, you carry all your loot to the market hub, and carry all your tags back into your mission running site.
As per normal use marketing and trading skills to accumulate tags from the nearest market hub, and buy 43 days worth of tags and ammo to bring back.
So lets say, i play 6.5 hours a day to generate my desired LP store items one run a day, and it goes on for 43 days.
In normal circumstance, i will be spending 6.5*43= 279.5 hours mission running
Now lets say it takes 2 hour back and from your market hub, so i will be instead, spending 6.5*43+2 = 281.5
By simple division, this theoratical setup will cause me to earn 0.99289520426288 * 86m real isk/hour which is 85.388987566607m
Did you include the money you saved from not using them? :D
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.17 15:34:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Carthus Sondale
It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"
When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.
Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Builder Robert
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:33:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Carthus Sondale
It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"
When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.
Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.
Yeah, that's a bit too far because people take breaks and aren't even at their keyboard for a lot of those "10 hours". It'd be like saying you only make 1/3rd of what you actually do because you're at home for 8 hours and sleep for 8 hours.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.17 20:37:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 17/08/2010 20:37:38
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Carthus Sondale
It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"
When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.
Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.
I'd say my ISK/hr varies between -2B ISK/hr and 2B ISK/hr, depending.
-Liang
Ed: Maybe even higher than 2B ISK/hr. Maybe upwards of 10-20B ISK/hr...
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On Twitter
Blog
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.17 22:35:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Frozean on 17/08/2010 22:46:14
Going to update first post soon.
Massive attack gave me 6m-7.5m Bounty nowadays, raising the isk/hour of it to 80m isk/hour, which isnt bad (although still not THAT good)
Reload between spawns (a golem takes 19 seconds to lock frigates, so reload!, and obviously, use Faction missiles to its full advantage.
Massive Attack16TENGU15minutes
6500bounty
2320Rewards
11908 eLP
5954
20728 total
82,912 eISK/hr
Buzz kill is an INCREDIBLE mission!! DAM eve-survival for giving me false info on the earnings of this mission. This is perfect for golem. sit in the middle and everything will spawn on you. Tank like you tank in "the blockade"
Hit the spawn in the following order
Assault Cruiser
lone Frigate (ignore all assault frigate)
Frigates
Assault Cruiser
Battle Cruiser (ignore assault cruiser+assault frigate)
Cruiser (ignore assault cruiser+assault frigate)
... put all drones on destroyers and web/scram frigs
Battleship
mission done.
Buzz kill
13 (my times was 18(tengu), 13,12,12,13)
9500bounties (9000-9800)
2860 rewards
13026eLP
25386total
117,166 eISK/hour
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.17 22:50:00 -
[78]
Hmmmmm... I usually take my Tengu into Buzz Kill. I'll have to try the Golem out. Thanks for the tip. :)
-Liang
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
Blog
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.17 23:04:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Builder Robert
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Carthus Sondale
It doesn't make any sense at all to even discuss how he gets items from one place to where he needs them. The only things we need to understand in order for them to be relevant are "Did it cost you any of your time? How much?" and "Did it cost you any of your ISK? How much?"
When discussing ISK/hour, all you need to do is look at your wallet when you logged in, then look at it again when you log out.
Yep. Thats all that counts. If your client is logged for 10 hours and you make 200 mil you are making 20 mil an hour. Or whatever, those are arbitrary numbers.
Yeah, that's a bit too far because people take breaks and aren't even at their keyboard for a lot of those "10 hours". It'd be like saying you only make 1/3rd of what you actually do because you're at home for 8 hours and sleep for 8 hours.
No. If I make 10 million in an hour being afk I still make 10 million. If you don't make money while you're afk you don't make any. You are speaking of a salaried or hourly wage job in your example. Look at it as a 100% commission job. you dont work you dont get paid. But sometimes you can't work either. the clock is still ticking in both cases, so to speak.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.17 23:09:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Frozean on 17/08/2010 23:17:36
I log off when im not playing.
Be nice.
Dont lag the system with insane numbers in local, its better to just leave and leave the rest to their mission running.
Good luck.
Because since i was borned till 4 months ago, i never played ran a lv 4 mission.
For example, i started using this setup since 1 month ago. Thats approximately 30 days. On average, i play the game 25% of the day. so thats 30/4 days Playing the game, getting said isk/hour.
The time im alive before that setup is approximately 5475 days.
By calculating the exact proportion of 30/4 to 5375+30, i can calculate my real Isk/hour easily by simple multiplication.
86* (30/4) * (5375+30)^1
=0.11933395
or 119333.95 isk/hour ,
So in short, right after i am borned into this world, im earning 119333.95 isk/hour until today. Of course it will probably increase as im playing eve.
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Builder Robert
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Posted - 2010.08.17 23:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
No. If I make 10 million in an hour being afk I still make 10 million. If you don't make money while you're afk you don't make any. You are speaking of a salaried or hourly wage job in your example. Look at it as a 100% commission job. you dont work you dont get paid. But sometimes you can't work either. the clock is still ticking in both cases, so to speak.
Being afk means you aren't "working", don't try and apply real world concepts to internet spaceships where they don't work.
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Hamatitio
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.08.18 00:12:00 -
[82]
ITT, 98% of eve is hating cause we are all much worse at running missions effectively apparently :(.
Originally by: Forest Gump
And that's all I got to say 'bout that.
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.18 00:34:00 -
[83]
Sorry character limit.
That means, if one day my relatives ask me, hey, you wash your dad's car each weekend? how much money do you earn?
Frozean: 0.000011556952662722 dollars per hour
And mah dad gonna go to court for child abuse.
Good luck !
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SpyGirl
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Posted - 2010.08.18 01:07:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Frozean
Sorry character limit.
That means, if one day my relatives ask me, hey, you wash your dad's car each weekend? how much money do you earn?
Frozean: 0.000011556952662722 dollars per hour
And mah dad gonna go to court for child abuse.
Good luck !
I see what you were saying there.
(actually I don't)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.18 03:42:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Frozean
Good luck !
How many beers did you have before writing those two posts?
-Liang
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
Blog
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.18 04:05:00 -
[86]
Im fasting so i cant really drink beer
*hic*
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Dusica
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.18 04:39:00 -
[87]
Originally by: King Aires
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn
So RF is a player run service? If so how can this service be used in the calculation?
Red Frog is a player corporation that does transport jobs. You pay their fee and they move your goods for you. Go back and (re?)-read Frozean's posts where he accounts for their fee.
While I applaud the OP for using this service to further his goals, I have to agree that by using another player to haul things for him he is no longer making said isk SOLO. It may not be the technical definition of dual-boxing but it is clearly not a solo activity if he is using other players for hauling is most lucrative source of income.
it is solo
Eternal Will. |
sasabor
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:25:00 -
[88]
I have some doubts about all these numbers you people turn up, in a few hours of missions i am lucky to have 20 to 25 mil without loot and salvage, that is if i get the good missions, but then again EVE isn't about making the most Isk/ per hour (personal opinion )
so my question OP you still have fun playing this game
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Jamie Banks
Gallente
Wasted and Still Mining
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:42:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Frozean
Btw posting this is lowering my isk/hour
/Thread
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Join in-game Channel 'Aussies'
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:28:00 -
[90]
Can you please post your Tengu fit?
Thanks
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