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Lord's Servant
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Posted - 2010.08.18 01:13:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lord''s Servant on 18/08/2010 01:13:48
 Quote:
I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. .... have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to.
lolwut? You totally cant have "pvp fitted" ships or have "pvp trained friends" in your vicninity at all evar? :P FYI salvage isnt worth **** all for isk, and if they loot you can, and in the right ship often do, instapop those ninja's :) Honestly learn to pvp...its a huge part of the game. If you dont want to do that, you have to put up with the hardship of not trying to pvp in a game that is 99% pvp.
-Lords
also 2nd page snipah
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Spineker
Caldari
Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.18 02:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ruzzi
thanks for the heads up...On route to Motsu
FYI: I will be the asshat pilot of the rifter stealing your loot
Hope you have a few days to wait around
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Slimy Worm
Cyan Wolf
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: KiLLeR21
Hi,
this is... a rant.
Bye.
gb2wowkthxbai
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vondronage
vondronage Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.18 09:44:00 -
[34]
It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who have such a screwed up value system that they actually believe something the BLEW UP belongs to them and that the police should protect them.
That's like blowing up your neighbors house and expecting the police to stand guard outside to prevent your other neighbors from taking anything, including pieces of debris, while you carry anything left inside over to your house.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: vondronage
That's like blowing up your neighbors house and expecting the police to stand guard outside to prevent your other neighbors from taking anything, including pieces of debris, while you carry anything left inside over to your house.
Been a while since there was a really bad analogy in this thread. Thanks Vondronage!
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Rylech
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:20:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Rylech on 18/08/2010 11:21:09
Originally by: Kerfira
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Since it is impractical that these quotes be tattooed backwards on the foreheads of every missioner even though they should be, they should at least be stickied. Game, set, match. Let's bury the salvage-is-stealing meme forevermore.
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heheheh
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.08.18 12:01:00 -
[37]
I dont take the loot or salvage so its nay bother to me, knock yourselves out, its crap money anyway.
Its funny to see them yelling abuse in local because you wont shoot them.
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Honsou Blackblade
Minmatar
Theoretical pi
New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.08.22 01:45:00 -
[38]
Thanks Killer, got a good system to salvage in now. See you there ;) |
I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.22 02:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: KiLLeR21
Hi,
I'm not going to hide it, this is going to be a rant.
The loot stealing seems to be a rampant fashion right now. The moment I start a mission and kill some rats, I have more buzzing flies on my wrecks than a pile of poop on a hot summer day. Especially in Motsu.
Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for.
To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing and should be flagged as such. Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss. I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. Most things that yield a profit (apart from veldspar mining in highsec, maybe..) have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to.
My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet. Once I abandon the wrecks and complete the mission, thus dissipating the deadspace gates, it's free for all to take. Non-deadspace, see above. Stealing is, well, stealing..
Grumble. Annoyed right now.
Bye.
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.22 02:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: KiLLeR21
Hi,
I'm not going to hide it, this is going to be a rant.
The loot stealing seems to be a rampant fashion right now. The moment I start a mission and kill some rats, I have more buzzing flies on my wrecks than a pile of poop on a hot summer day. Especially in Motsu.
Now to be clear: If I don't want the wreck, I abandon it. Simple. That's what the function is for.
To sum it up: Ninja salvaging is stealing and should be flagged as such. Ninja looting already is completely stealing and should incur security status loss. I mean, 90% of the time you can't even shoot the thief because you must assume he has pvp-fitted pvp-trained friends in the vicinity - that's the nature of the game. Most things that yield a profit (apart from veldspar mining in highsec, maybe..) have a risk attached. Yet ninja salvaging has none, ninja looting just barely tries to.
My proposed solution for deadspace missions: lock the gate for everyone but me and my fleet. Once I abandon the wrecks and complete the mission, thus dissipating the deadspace gates, it's free for all to take. Non-deadspace, see above. Stealing is, well, stealing..
Grumble. Annoyed right now.
Bye.
You are either a troll or an extreme care bear.
It does not matter if he has a friend close by and he steals from you. Your whole corp can shoot at him, and only he gains aggression to shoot back at you.
It is funny to kill a thief and then go afk in station while they sit at your mission and shoots your wrecks.
It is not your salvage. Get over it.
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v00d003
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Posted - 2010.08.22 14:15:00 -
[41]
Use a GOLEM and salvage while u go. Or shoot your salvage as the Ninjas approach it. It really ****es them off, hey its not like ur going to get it anyway ,so have some fun with them
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Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.08.22 23:41:00 -
[42]
Ya know, just when it looks like these forums are going downhill, some benighted soul like the OP comes along and once again, all is right with the world... er, um galaxy.
OP, just get away form Motsu. Seriously, the low hanging fruit is the best fruit and as long as it's plentiful, why would we go someplace where we'd actually, you know, have to spend more than 5 minutes scanning missions up? Plenty of other places for you to go make piles of ISK until such time as you decide you want to shoot ninjas, and at that point, why, just come on back and we'll have a little fun. By the way, where did this myth spring up that we have this "mysterious ninja fleet" just waiting to come in to our aid? I'm pretty sure there aren't any larger ninja outfits than SN and if a mission runner gets ganked by one of our lads, it's almost always at the hands of the ninja he just shot at with maybe some chip-in damage from the NPCs.
Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.23 00:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: vondronage
It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who have such a screwed up value system that they actually believe something the BLEW UP belongs to them and that the police should protect them.
That's like blowing up your neighbors house and expecting the police to stand guard outside to prevent your other neighbors from taking anything, including pieces of debris, while you carry anything left inside over to your house.
Its like that for 2 reasons.
1. they put your name on it.
2. concord protects it from destruction.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 08:23:00 -
[44]
There is an easy solution to the problem that I find extremely effective. After you killed the NPC immediately target your wreck for tractor & salvaging it. Should anyone come into your area of the mission to ninja salvage, let them fly to the cans and just before they get to the can, blow it up.
You didn't get anything but they didn't get anything either and wasted their time. Also stop shooting NPC's, they will be wasting more time waiting for wrecks. Now, in the odd occasion they might bring their own ship or a friend and start shooting your missions NPC's to try show you that they WILL salvage the wrecks. In this rare case, just go back to your agent and quit the mission.
After a couple of times of a ninja salvager encountering you, they will warp in and just warp out again. I just love making them waste their time. 
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 09:52:00 -
[45]
Or you could just stay the hell out of Motsu?
I really don't understand the various strategies posted along the lines of blow up your wrecks/salvage as you go/actively try to inconvenience a salvager, when you could just not bother with any of this crap and move to another system.
Really, it isn't hard. Here's how you do it.
1. Find another agent of the lvl you require.
2. Move supplies you need in an indy
3. Move mission running ships
4. Commence mission running in a hassle free environ.
5. Simples.
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ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 10:50:00 -
[46]
Edited by: ChingChongCha on 23/08/2010 10:54:31
Originally by: Sendraks
Or you could just stay the hell out of Motsu?
Assumptions is the mother! Who said I was in Motsu? I certainly didn't.
I really don't care if I inconvenience a salvager. It is my mission, my loot, my salvage. If he does it without getting permission (I would anyway not give it) he's not going to get anything. So he's not getting anything either way.
1/10 for reading comprehension |
Lars Zundi
Sons Of 0din
The Strangers.
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Posted - 2010.08.23 11:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh
make cap stable (dominix) anything actually.
get recon 3/3
warp to it and engage lars
leave it for a night.
feel better.
What the hell did I do to you? 
Oh, and to the OP: Lots of ways around getting ninja salvaged.
Train for a marauder and salvage on the go, salvage large wrecks the minute you pop them. No decent wrecks on scan means ninjas will often pick a more profitable mission runner.
Pick a system that isn't as busy as the major mission hubs.
Train a dedicated salvager alt in a destroyer on a second account.(Doesn't take long but requires another account. Everyone has one nowadays, right?)
Blitz missions for LPs/bounties and leave all your salvage/loot.
I actualy don't mind ninja salvagers when I'm forced to mission away to get some isk, they add some excitement to otherwise boring missions and occasionaly some lulz when a spawn takes a diskile to them.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ChingChongCha
Assumptions is the mother! Who said I was in Motsu? I certainly didn't.
Just a presumption on my part based on prior experience that people who come up with such strategies tend to be operating out of the busy mission running systems and are not bright enough to go elsewhere. Clearly you are not one of these.
Originally by: ChingChongCha
It is my mission,
I agree.
Originally by: ChingChongCha
my loot, my salvage.
Only if you can keep it. As a rule, I tend to view as stuff only being mine once it is my private hangar. Otherwise it is fair game, anyone can take it, providing they can find a way.
I leave too much salvage behind untouched to care about anyone taking it. Most of it is worth sod all and I only take what I can salvage while I'm still running the mission. Anything left is fair game. Not that anyone comes looking for it that I know of.
I'm not sure what point you're think you're making by blowing it up. Sounds like a waste of ammo to me.
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ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sendraks
....
It is called courtesy. They take resources they did not acquire or ask if they can take it. So the point I'm making is, your wasting your time trying to leech of my back.
Yes, I do take everything (I might drop the crappy cap boosters and scrap metal if I need some space though). Also, some times I'm not in the mood to take frigate wrecks especially if there are lots of them, those I mark as abandoned.
Anyone is welcome to salvage and loot my abandoned wrecks after asking politely, else, no go, I'll waste ammo blowing it up.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: ChingChongCha
It is called courtesy.
Well I must agree that promoting a more courteous world is a worthy goal. I would certainly encourage polite requests to come salvage/loot my wrecks.
The rest is just a sematics argument about the "ownership" of mission loot. I happen to think that salvage belongs to whoever salvages it (which fits with CCP's view) and loot belongs to whoever gets it back into their hangar safely.
Regardless, there is no need to shoot wrecks or cans or anything in a mission DS if you're missioning in a system which salvagers do not frequent. The sooner new players realise that their woes can be solved by the simple expedience of moving systems (which will have minimal impact on their profits in hi-sec) rather than engaging in silliness of shooting wrecks or engaging in the risky activity of shooting loot thieves, for which they may be ill prepared to deal with the consquences, the happier everyone will be.
Well except for the salvagers and thieves, who won't have so many easy marks anymore.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.23 12:49:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/08/2010 12:49:54
Originally by: ChingChongCha
They take resources they did not acquire or ask if they can take it.
They take resources that are available for everyone to take. They did "acquire" it, the same way you would have: by using a salvager on the wreck.
They worked as hard for the salvage as you did (harder, in fact), so why shouldn't they be entitled to the rewards of that work?
àas for the loot, well, they have to run the risk of you blowing them up. If you choose to waive that risk, then that's not really their problem.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 13:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 23/08/2010 12:49:54
Originally by: ChingChongCha
They take resources they did not acquire or ask if they can take it.
They take resources that are available for everyone to take. They did "acquire" it, the same way you would have: by using a salvager on the wreck.
They worked as hard for the salvage as you did (harder, in fact), so why shouldn't they be entitled to the rewards of that work?
àas for the loot, well, they have to run the risk of you blowing them up. If you choose to waive that risk, then that's not really their problem.
Did they create the wreck? No. They "found" it and are leaching from it. Taking something from someone else without permission is stealing. And they are definitely not going steal anything from me reducing my income with the act. I will most definitely deny them their "hard earned risky" income.
So they are more than welcome to try and "acquire" whatever from what is mine, but they will be wasting their time and leave empty handed.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.23 13:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: ChingChongCha
Did they create the wreck? No.
Did they get the reward for creating the wreck? No.
Quote:
They "found" it and are leaching from it.
Much like you did.
Quote:
Taking something from someone else without permission is stealing.
àand if someone does that in EVE, you can shoot them.
Quote:
And they are definitely not going steal anything from me reducing my income with the act.
They don't have to, since you're apparently so willing to do that on your ownà
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 13:28:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Sendraks on 23/08/2010 13:28:46
Originally by: ChingChongCha
Did they create the wreck? No. They "found" it and are leaching from it.
So by this definition, miners, who happen to "find" asteroids in belts, are leaching from the roids, as they did not create them?
Originally by: ChingChongCha
Taking something from someone else without permission is stealing.
This is the semantics argument about possession I was referring to in my post.
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ChingChongCha
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tippia
They don't have to, since you're apparently so willing to do that on your ownà
Yes, I most definitely are willing to kill MY wrecks as a deterrent and it is working very well. I would encourage everyone else to do exactly the same who are fed-up with the leaches.
You are quite terrible at trying to convince me otherwise with your bs semantics.
BTW, let me guess, you are a ninja savager and angry because my method will most definitely discourage you to salvage my wrecks?
Rant along, I have better things to do.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: ChingChongCha
You are quite terrible at trying to convince me otherwise with your bs semantics.
It's not semantics, just plain old facts.
Quote:
BTW, let me guess,
No, because you'll make silly assumptions based on absolutely nothing (because you don't actually know anything and has failed to do research in this area as well) and thus just make an arse out of yourself.
So instead of you guessing, how about I just tell you: I run missions in one of the more popular hubs. I haven't had a ninja inà
àever.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Wolfcheck
Pack o' Wolves
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: ChingChongCha
Yes, I most definitely are willing to kill MY wrecks as a deterrent and it is working very well. I would encourage everyone else to do exactly the same who are fed-up with the leaches.
Well, technically, propriety is not defined by any rules of your making, but by CCPS and server code. You can claim the wrecks as yours, but that doesn't mean a thing since the server decides (and it is authoritative in that respect) that they are for everyone to take.
What you think is yours means nothing in eve. What CCP think is yours has a much greater impact.
This said, of course I'd rather not have anyone salvaging my stuff, but after all it's part of the fun. Even if I lose a hard-earned dominix to a freaking ninja and his RR. lol.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ChingChongCha
Yes, I most definitely are willing to kill MY wrecks as a deterrent and it is working very well.
I find running missions where people don't come and nick my salvage works very well and I don't have to waste ammo blowing up wrecks that are there for everyone to take.
I have to wonder what you would do if another player came into an asteroid belt you were mining and started to go to work on the roids. Would you attempt to blow the roids up as well?
Originally by: ChingChongCha
I would encourage everyone else to do exactly the same who are fed-up with the leaches.
I would encourage everyone facing these issues to either a) move systems to where salvaging doesn't happen or b) establish a constructive working relationship with salvagers for mutual profit and happiness.
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Wolfcheck
Pack o' Wolves
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Posted - 2010.08.23 14:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sendraks
I have to wonder what you would do if another player came into an asteroid belt you were mining and started to go to work on the roids. Would you attempt to blow the roids up as well?
I tried. Doesn't work. ;) (actually, it was my noobie days when I was mining in osprey and kept forgetting to actually move the target to the rat before engaging weapons.... lotsa missiles wasted on roids :p)
Quote:
I would encourage everyone facing these issues to either a) move systems to where salvaging doesn't happen or b) establish a constructive working relationship with salvagers for mutual profit and happiness.
This is a bit of wishful thinking. They mostly aren't in it for the salvage - they're in it for the killmail. They don't want you to be happy... unless you enjoy pvping.
But hey doesn't hurt to try.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.08.23 15:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Wolfcheck
I tried. Doesn't work. ;) (actually, it was my noobie days when I was mining in osprey and kept forgetting to actually move the target to the rat before engaging weapons.... lotsa missiles wasted on roids :p)
Ah tell me about, done that too many times over the years, usually while tired. Popped a few of my own wrecks as a result of that carelessness as well.
Originally by: Wolfcheck
This is a bit of wishful thinking.
Not really. Plenty of examples around of mission runners and salvagers co-operating peacefully together.
Originally by: Wolfcheck
They mostly aren't in it for the salvage - they're in it for the killmail. They don't want you to be happy... unless you enjoy pvping.
These are really the minority of salvagers out there and if they weren'te salvaging, they'd be harvesting tears via some other mechanic. They're just out to torment others because of some social/mental/emotional defect on their part. EvE provides a safe, consequence free, environment for individuals to exericse this kind of behaviour. But they are the majority, just the ones who make and create the most noise, both on these forums and in local chat. Enough noise that anyone could be forgiven for thinking that its the norm, rather than the exception.
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