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Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 23:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let me say at once, I don't mind Wars. I love em, but fake wars / griefing wars just pisses me off.
There should be some way to invalidate a "fake" wardec. Say a one man corp wardecs a 1000 man alliance, he spends most of his time station humping or AFKing. He uses alternative accounts to scan down mission runners, and he generally uses a Wardec as a way to avoid criminal prosecution while killing random targets.
Now, there is no way for the 1000 man corp to "win" this war, we can't drive the attacker back (because it's just one person) and he already has enough money to pay for the wardec which means he probably has enough money to loose hordes of ships too. So even if we pod him 50 times, he can more or less just come back and go at it again.
In the meantime, our alliance members are getting locked out of incursions groups and many other activities because of the wardec. Basically it's 170m / week in order complicate life for the entire alliance.
That, is not a "War", it's not China vs USA or even USA vs Luxemburg, there's no groups at war, there's no killing. It's a single Jihad terrorist standing in the street with a handgun declaring war on USA shooting at random people. This should no more be a Concord accepted practice then suicide ganking at gates or can flipping, because it's really no different.
There should be some way to invalidate wars like this. Basically you take it to trial, you talk to concord and say "Hey, this is not a real War, he's just killing innocent miners and pilots and using the Wardec as cover. This man is nothing more then a petty criminal abusing the Wardec system to avoid criminal prosecution. And by doing so he's severely hampering our ability to conduct our daily business."
If it was 50 people on the other hand, it would be a war worth fighting. And it would be possible to fight it, because a 50 vs 1000 you can simply gang up on, you can kick each and every pilots arse, you can hit them where it hurts, destroy their ships, push them in to ruin.
A good system to fix this would either be to have a "Concord Appeal Chamber" where you could forcefully invalidate a war. Add a "Goal" system aka "This War is initiated to drive X corporation/alliance out of X system because of their practice of suicide ganking our miners" or "This War is initiated in order to take the POS station at X moon in system X.". There should be ways of winning, loosing or ending wars outside of the other person running out of money to pay for the Wardec.
Wars should be used as a means of accomplishing goals rather then as a means of having random people to shoot at with no concord retaliation. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1431
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 23:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
you can't wardec npc corps, so you have no worries a rogue goon |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
738
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 23:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |

Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 23:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:you can't wardec npc corps, so you have no worries
That's right Mr. Goonwaffle, I has no worries on this char. xD
It bugs out my others though. |

Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance?
Comments like these are just silly. It's not hard to kill him while he's out of the station. He doesn't stand a chance of actually fighting us, but he gets to keep up with random killing flying around in a recon killing miners on belts or whatever else he wants.
Theres no actual way of defeating a single person financing his wars with an out of corp character. Because there will always be some way for him to grief some of us as long as the war is active. |

Grumpymunky
Super Monkey Tribe of Danger
411
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
So tell us which corp your others are in so 49 more people can wardec it. Problem solved. Post with your monkey. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
738
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Line Pettersen wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? Comments like these are just silly. It's not hard to kill him while he's out of the station. He doesn't stand a chance of actually fighting us, but he gets to keep up with random killing flying around in a recon killing miners on belts or whatever else he wants. Theres no actual way of defeating a single person financing his wars with an out of corp character. Because there will always be some way for him to grief some of us as long as the war is active. So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |

Myxx
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
551
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Require a minimum of 10 players (individual accounts, not alts) in a corp before it possesses the ability to declare a war.
there, done. |

Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Grumpymunky wrote:So tell us which corp your others are in so 49 more people can wardec it. Problem solved.
Sure, it's Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company |

Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Require a minimum of 10 players (individual accounts, not alts) in a corp before it possesses the ability to declare a war.
there, done.
Yes, this would help. But then you'd just have people buying "alts" from others. Like 5m / month if you spend 1 unused character slot at filling up my corporation so I can wardec. Well actually it would be nice.
There needs to be enough people for an actual fight to happen, there should be ways of winning the war for both sides |

Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Is it really that hard for your 1000 member alliance to keep track of one guy? Put him in your watchlist, check local, and plan accordingly? Perhaps your people that get popped out on their own can fleet up with other people in the alliance?
|

Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
82
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Line Pettersen wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? Comments like these are just silly. It's not hard to kill him while he's out of the station. He doesn't stand a chance of actually fighting us, but he gets to keep up with random killing flying around in a recon killing miners on belts or whatever else he wants. Theres no actual way of defeating a single person financing his wars with an out of corp character. Because there will always be some way for him to grief some of us as long as the war is active. Either send people to camp him in station, kill him repeatedly, or deal with your losses. Welcome to eve.
Destiny Corrupted wrote:So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? Basically this. |

Pipa Porto
493
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Line Pettersen wrote:Wars should be used as a means of accomplishing goals rather then as a means of having random people to shoot at with no concord retaliation.
Disrupting your operations is a perfectly valid goal. Seems like this guy's doing just that.
Anyway, CCP's been very clear. They consider wardecs to be a pay-for-targets affair. If he pays, he gets the targets. The defender can work out how to deny him kills from those targets. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
740
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Line Pettersen wrote:Wars should be used as a means of accomplishing goals rather then as a means of having random people to shoot at with no concord retaliation. Disrupting your operations is a perfectly valid goal. Seems like this guy's doing just that. Anyway, CCP's been very clear. They consider wardecs to be a pay-for-targets affair. If he pays, he gets the targets. The defender can work out how to deny him kills from those targets. In fact, to take this a step further, the defending party can completely negate the war by hopping to other corporations/alliances. It's a very unbalanced, one-sided way to win every time, because the aggressor doesn't even get his money back. Seriously, you carebears have no reason to complain. Or will you not be satisfied until all pvp violence is removed entirely? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
439
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
What's the TL:DR of the OP?
Nerf solo PvPers so that players in a "1000 man alliance" that are unable to defend themselves against a single player can make hordes of risk free ISK running Highsec Incursions? Wow, that's a whole new level of lameness! Quiet the achievement on these forums. |

Pipa Porto
494
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Line Pettersen wrote:Wars should be used as a means of accomplishing goals rather then as a means of having random people to shoot at with no concord retaliation. Disrupting your operations is a perfectly valid goal. Seems like this guy's doing just that. Anyway, CCP's been very clear. They consider wardecs to be a pay-for-targets affair. If he pays, he gets the targets. The defender can work out how to deny him kills from those targets. In fact, to take this a step further, the defending party can completely negate the war by hopping to other corporations/alliances. It's a very unbalanced, one-sided way to win every time, because the aggressor doesn't even get his money back. Seriously, you carebears have no reason to complain. Or will you not be satisfied until all pvp violence is removed entirely?
Bonus, it's perfectly legal to disband a corp and immediately recreate it with the same name, logo, etc. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
1764
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Line Pettersen wrote:Grumpymunky wrote:So tell us which corp your others are in so 49 more people can wardec it. Problem solved. Sure, it's Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Umm - couldn't find that corp or I would have helped increasing the number to make it worthhile to you (I never log in on this character and can't fly anything but a reaper on this char, so no harm done).
Fear is your real enemy. You know... morons. |

Mallak Azaria
384
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Posting in a thread about 1000 people being scared of 1 person. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
743
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Bonus, it's perfectly legal to disband a corp and immediately recreate it with the same name, logo, etc. It's what some of my current targets are doing right now. They turn one corporation into five, and then when they all get wars, they immediately leave them and make new ones.
Large Collidable Object wrote:Line Pettersen wrote:Grumpymunky wrote:So tell us which corp your others are in so 49 more people can wardec it. Problem solved. Sure, it's Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company Umm - couldn't find that corp or I would have helped increasing the number to make it worthhile to you (I never log in on this character and can't fly anything but a reaper on this char, so no harm done). He substituted my corporation's name into his response, because he didn't like what I said. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
803
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Even more pubbie filth whining to the developers to fix the filth's problem for them. An entire alliance being man-handled by one person. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
1765
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:He substituted my corporation's name into his response, because he didn't like what I said.
Lol - didn't even check because I didn't think there was a corp with that name =). You know... morons. |

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
He's doing it wrong. He should be in a 2-man corp with a throw away alt as the CEO. That way nobody knows his name and can't use locator agents on him until he gets a killmail.
To the OP: surrender to him for 500 mil isk or more and your problem will be solved. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
806
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:So what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? Totally not empty quoting.
Also...
Quote:That, is not a "War", it's not China vs USA or even USA vs Luxemburg, there's no groups at war, there's no killing. It's a single Jihad terrorist standing in the street with a handgun declaring war on USA shooting at random people. Newsflash... there are many types of warfare. What you are experiencing is called guerilla, or skirmish, warfare. He uses his smaller size and mobility against your superior, bulky numbers and bets on your complacency when you're not looking for him.
The only way to beat this is to stop being complacent and stop doing "the usual." PvP-fit your ships... don't mine without a logi... have a combat guy or two nearby that can assist alliancemates... consolidate everyone into defensible systems (ex. "dead-end" systems), etc.
Quote:There should be some way to invalidate wars like this. Basically you take it to trial, you talk to concord and say "Hey, this is not a real War, he's just killing innocent miners and pilots and using the Wardec as cover. This man is nothing more then a petty criminal abusing the Wardec system to avoid criminal prosecution. And by doing so he's severely hampering our ability to conduct our daily business." A few things...
1. War is designed to disrupt the daily business of another. Working as intended. 2. Your aggressor is not abusing anything. He paid for his combat rights using one of the systems that was available to him. The alternative would be to suicide gank someone in your alliance and "pay" with his ship. 3. Miners are not "innocent" in any way. The minerals they mine go on the market... are used to build ships, weapons, mods, and ammo... and could be bought by your aggressor's enemies. Everyone is part of the "food chain" in EVE in some way. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
803
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
MinefieldS wrote:To the OP: surrender to him for 500 mil isk or more and your problem will be solved.
You already have no pride or courage OP, this is probably your only option. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
803
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:... many words ...
Don't try to be reasonable with this poster. The fact that a single person is disrupting his entire alliance using even the most basic high-sec warfare wankery means the OP's entire alliance lack the fortitude necessary to deal with him.
Simple bait & gank would be more than adequate to deal with this war target but they can't even manage that. Typical risk averse high-sec pubbies. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |

Dolph Hitman
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Fear is your real enemy.
Not empty quoting |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
803
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
"Bait him with a tanked out Maller and warp in T1 Cruisers and a Blackbird? Keep doing it until he gives up? Nah I'll just whine to the developers!" You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
745
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 00:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tarsus Zateki wrote:"Bait him with a tanked out Maller and warp in T1 Cruisers and a Blackbird? Keep doing it until he gives up? Nah I'll just whine to the developers!" We just want to mine and do missions in peace. Why can't you understand that? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |

Mallak Azaria
384
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 01:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
MinefieldS wrote:He's doing it wrong. He should be in a 2-man corp with a throw away alt as the CEO. That way nobody knows his name and can't use locator agents on him until he gets a killmail.
To the OP: surrender to him for 500 mil isk or more and your problem will be solved.
Then I am correct in assuming that you have not heard of this. How do you people manage to survive? |
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