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Mary Anne Viziam	Posted - 2010.08.22 21:58:00 - [1] Point: from what I heard T3 Covert Ops are NOT classified as lvl2 Jump Harmonics and therefore cant use a BO jump portal. a. above is correct? b. can a T3 ship with covert ops module generate a covert cynofield? TIA -- You are reading a signature. BRUCE rl photo shoot of the tight knit likeminded hardcore players
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.08.22 22:01:00 - [2] No, it's not correct: You _can_ jump a T3 _with_ the covert reconfig sub through a blackops bridge. You cannot use a T3 to generate a covert cyno.
Mary Anne Viziam	Posted - 2010.08.22 22:07:00 - [3] Originally by: James Lyrus You cannot use a T3 to generate a covert cyno. First of all thanks a lot for the answer. About T3s unable to make a covert cyno: is it considered as "by design" or "a bug"? (by players and/or CCP - would be cool if someone knew stuff about it). -- You are reading a signature. BRUCE rl photo shoot of the tight knit likeminded hardcore players
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.22 22:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Mary Anne First of all thanks a lot for the answer. About T3s unable to make a covert cyno: is it considered as "by design" or "a bug"? (by players and/or CCP - would be cool if someone knew stuff about it). File a bug report and ask. Pretty sure that CCP thinks its "by design" with a "wrong design". -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
MalVortex Reaper Industries Asset Liberation Front.	Posted - 2010.08.23 01:48:00 - [5] When CCP introduced their "can be fit to" mechanic instead of cpu reduction for specific-fit modules, they broke the ability for T3 ships to fit the covop cyno due to the inability to give the subystem that attribute. T3 covops once were able to, and are supposed to be able to, fit the covop cyno, but due to this design shortfall haven't been able to for a long time now. It'll probably be fixed in two years when they finally get around to fixing all the crap wrong with T3.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2010.08.23 06:02:00 - [6] Originally by: MalVortex It'll probably be fixed in two years when they finally get around to fixing all the crap wrong with T3. Like the Legion covert sub's disappointing damage output.
ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.08.23 06:57:00 - [7] Originally by: MalVortex When CCP introduced their "can be fit to" mechanic instead of cpu reduction for specific-fit modules, they broke the ability for T3 ships to fit the covop cyno due to the inability to give the subystem that attribute. T3 covops once were able to, and are supposed to be able to, fit the covop cyno, but due to this design shortfall haven't been able to for a long time now. It'll probably be fixed in two years when they finally get around to fixing all the crap wrong with T3. Iono. I'm probably going to put my money on "it was intended to be this way" instead of "it's borked and they forgot to fix it." Reason? Think about it: if T3s had the CPU reduction for covert cynos then, in conjunction with the interdiction nullifier, it could go ANYWHERE and light that covert cyno without fear of gatecamps and such. Black ops gangs would be UNSTOPPABLE. ... wait... now that I think about it... this could be the new lease on life Black Ops ships might need! CCP... FIX IT!! FIX IT NOW!!! _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
MalVortex Reaper Industries Asset Liberation Front.	Posted - 2010.08.23 08:36:00 - [8] Originally by: ShahFluffers Originally by: MalVortex When CCP introduced their "can be fit to" mechanic instead of cpu reduction for specific-fit modules, they broke the ability for T3 ships to fit the covop cyno due to the inability to give the subystem that attribute. T3 covops once were able to, and are supposed to be able to, fit the covop cyno, but due to this design shortfall haven't been able to for a long time now. It'll probably be fixed in two years when they finally get around to fixing all the crap wrong with T3. Iono. I'm probably going to put my money on "it was intended to be this way" instead of "it's borked and they forgot to fix it." Reason? Think about it: if T3s had the CPU reduction for covert cynos then, in conjunction with the interdiction nullifier, it could go ANYWHERE and light that covert cyno without fear of gatecamps and such. Black ops gangs would be UNSTOPPABLE. ... wait... now that I think about it... this could be the new lease on life Black Ops ships might need! CCP... FIX IT!! FIX IT NOW!!! They didn't forget to fix it - they simply didn't bother to do so. Go plow through some old threads back in Test Server Feedback if you care to see the dev posts on the issue. The ability to null out interdiction wouldn't really matter to a BO gang - its really easy to get your cynos in position over any meaningful time period if you have the mind to do so. The only real relevance of a T3 BO cyno is that a T3 ship is actually hard to kill, while recons tend to be squishy and covops die instantly. This would have its uses serving as both a means of catching a target, but also being able to live long enough to escalate with the cyno when that target's backup arrives.
Headerman	Posted - 2010.08.23 09:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Originally by: MalVortex It'll probably be fixed in two years when they finally get around to fixing all the crap wrong with T3. Like the Legion covert sub's disappointing damage output. Think that applies to all T3 ships.. I think it can be seen as logical for the T3 not to be able to fit the Cov cyno... if it did, and it had the cov ops cloak AND the interdiction nullifyer (as well as serious DPS bonuses on the cov ops module), then it would be way too powerful. One ship could get past a 100man gate camp, go somewhere, light the cyno, warp in a dozen carriers etc... keep it on the cov ops frig and force recons.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2010.08.23 14:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Headerman Originally by: Marcus Gideon Like the Legion covert sub's disappointing damage output. Think that applies to all T3 ships.. I think it can be seen as logical for the T3 not to be able to fit the Cov cyno... if it did, and it had the cov ops cloak AND the interdiction nullifyer (as well as serious DPS bonuses on the cov ops module), then it would be way too powerful. One ship could get past a 100man gate camp, go somewhere, light the cyno, warp in a dozen carriers etc... keep it on the cov ops frig and force recons. Tengu Covert - 5% missile rate of fire (equals more DPS) Proteus Covert - 5% hybrid damage (self explanatory) Loki Covert - 5% projectile rate of fire (equals more DPS) Legion Covert - 10% laser capacitor use (wtf?) Yes, you could argue that it's 2x the bonus. But it's a bonus that does nothing for damage output. The only benefit would be if it had more turret slots, which it doesn't.
Kara'ina	Posted - 2010.08.23 17:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Headerman I think it can be seen as logical for the T3 not to be able to fit the Cov cyno... if it did, and it had the cov ops cloak AND the interdiction nullifyer (as well as serious DPS bonuses on the cov ops module), then it would be way too powerful. One ship could get past a 100man gate camp, go somewhere, light the cyno, warp in a dozen carriers etc... keep it on the cov ops frig and force recons. You are mixing normal and covert cynos. A covert cyno generator generates covert cyno fields. Any ship including T3 is able to use a normal cyno generator and make a normal cyno. Carriers cannot jump to a covert cyno field, only black ops can jump or bridge to it. To clarify more, a covert cyno is not visible on the overview and can be created in a system with a cyno jammer. A regular cyno is visible on the overview, everyone and their mom can warp to it. Regular cyno's cannot be created in a system protected by a cyno jammer. This effectively stops hostile capitals and jump bridged fleets from coming in but not black ops and cloaky gangs as they can use the covert cyno. In the end it doesn't really matter if a T3 ship can or cannot make a covert cyno. There are enough ships that can and have good enough survivability to go where it is needed.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.08.23 23:00:00 - [12] Originally by: ShahFluffers Iono. I'm probably going to put my money on "it was intended to be this way" instead of "it's borked and they forgot to fix it." They also "forgot to fix" Blockade Runners not being able to fit the Covert Cyno. Though they have Jump Harmonics 2 and can use the Covert Portal. No, it's not something they forgot. T3 Covert sub and BR cannot fit Covert Cyno for good reasons: it would be OP. -- Sent from my douchePhone using Look@MEEEEE!
Tandin The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.24 00:20:00 - [13] Originally by: MalVortex When CCP introduced their "can be fit to" mechanic instead of cpu reduction for specific-fit modules, they broke the ability for T3 ships to fit the covop cyno due to the inability to give the subystem that attribute. T3 covops once were able to, and are supposed to be able to, fit the covop cyno, but due to this design shortfall haven't been able to for a long time now. It'll probably be fixed in two years when they finally get around to fixing all the crap wrong with T3. Actually they deliberately removed the ability shortly after Apocrypha came out. It isn't broken. I can only find the patch note regarding the description but I believe the ability disappeared at the same time.. http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=190
MalVortex Reaper Industries Asset Liberation Front.	Posted - 2010.08.24 01:08:00 - [14] Quote: The Offensive Covert Reconfiguration System has had its description fixed and will no longer say that you can fit a Covert Cynosural Field Generator. That is the patch note you linked to. The patch notes removed the description that says you could, when in fact you could not, due to the restrictions on "can be fit to" system in conjunction with subsystems. T3 covert are supposed to, in the theoretical sense, be able to fit the covert cyno. The fix was more effort than CCP wanted to invest, much like balancing T3 or making that much hyped 5th subystem.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.24 11:25:00 - [15] Originally by: MalVortex Quote: The Offensive Covert Reconfiguration System has had its description fixed and will no longer say that you can fit a Covert Cynosural Field Generator. That is the patch note you linked to. The patch notes removed the description that says you could, when in fact you could not, due to the restrictions on "can be fit to" system in conjunction with subsystems. T3 covert are supposed to, in the theoretical sense, be able to fit the covert cyno. The fix was more effort than CCP wanted to invest, much like balancing T3 or making that much hyped 5th subystem. I've always thought they were never able or were intended to fit them as it would be overpowered, interesting patch note that I missed.
Rajere Vicious Inc Killboard Online	Posted - 2010.08.26 21:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Rajere on 26/08/2010 22:02:19 Actually you're all dumb, Malvortex is correct. I happen to know, cus I made the post. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1077112/page/1#1 dev response is here -------------------------- F5F5F5F5F5F5F5

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