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Pann & m0o on IRC

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Vacuole	Posted - 2003.06.28 17:23:00 - [31] Well, I still see no hard evidence that it was Pann, or J0rt or that other m0o guy for that matter. I guess what would make it more convincing is if the parties involved were to vouch for it. I mean, yeah.. it probably was.. but until they step-up and vouch for it here, where auditing DOES contol nicknames, etc. then it'll remain heresay, atleast in my mind. Thanks!
Stavros	Posted - 2003.06.28 17:28:00 - [32] those logs are real and the people involved are genuine, whilst panns name isnt reservered if you notice it has opps in the logs (at least in my logs) and I was actually there, so yes its genuine. -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
j0rt	Posted - 2003.06.28 17:29:00 - [33] Its kinda hard being stuck in the middle of all this. I wish people wouldnt keep posting screenshots of when we were in mara which was b4 the concord incident it was like 3 weeks ago now mybe more. None of us have been using containers like that for a long time. I also wish people wouldnt moan about others exploiting, as in life you use what advantages you have over an opponent enemy. The cargo containers were not used to lag people they were merely used as cover and missile protection. Deal with it, Polaris said it was ok, GM's said what we were doing was ok. We even had a Dev watching us the other day. they are contented what does the opinion of the token PR skirt matter ;). Edited by: j0rt on 28/06/2003 17:31:21
smoked	Posted - 2003.06.28 17:58:00 - [34] ROFLMAO - blow them up first, then ban them for awhile hehe.
Callas	Posted - 2003.06.28 18:09:00 - [35] Quote: There is no such thing as "Off the record" for a developer, any more than there is for a politician. Anything they say will be taken as gospel. It does not have to be so, and it only is so if you, me, them - if we choose to treat comments so. Personally, I truely hate such an attitude. We are all individuals, with our own personal opinions, and our personal opinions are quite distinct from our professional behaviour. To say that a person in a position of responsibility can no longer express their personal opinons because other people will treat them as professional opinions is dehumanizing, and very very stupid on the part of the mass of people; I for one will not be a part of that or pander to it by accepting it as the way things are. -- Callas
Zilla	Posted - 2003.06.28 18:28:00 - [36] Ran into Lord Zap a few days ago. Funny how it took 3-4 times longer than usual to load the scene... well, not that funny, considering the number of containers he'd already spread around himself. Not done it for ages, eh? Pff. More power to Pann's elbow.
Signus	Posted - 2003.06.28 18:33:00 - [37] "I also wish people wouldnt moan about others exploiting, as in life you use what advantages you have over an opponent enemy."-Jort Spoken like a true Griefer....Time for you to go pester some other game MOo. Take your rabble with you J0rt and go upset someone elses playerbase with your exploitations.
Lallante	Posted - 2003.06.28 18:34:00 - [38] j0rt gets it in 1 Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.28 18:40:00 - [39] << It does not have to be so, and it only is so if you, me, them - if we choose to treat comments so. Personally, I truely hate such an attitude. We are all individuals, with our own personal opinions, and our personal opinions are quite distinct from our professional behaviour. To say that a person in a position of responsibility can no longer express their personal opinons because other people will treat them as professional opinions is dehumanizing, and very very stupid on the part of the mass of people; I for one will not be a part of that or pander to it by accepting it as the way things are. -- Callas >> Like it or not, this is human nature. A person in authority has to have no personal opinion. I obviously know that what Pann said is her personal opinion and that CCP's stance is obviously different. That much is obvious based on the actions taken against m0o so far. But I'm not everyone. And people will hold her statements up as gospel that CCP said m0o is exploiters. For a person who's job description is communicating with the playerbase as a whole, that behavior is inexcusable. The position she now presents (as shown by Axelay's comment earlier) is one of bias against m0o. By showing open hostility towards them, the position she (and CCP by association) presents is that anything involving a member of m0o will never be judged fairly. That if 1 person in the group hacks the server, for example, they will all share his fate regardless of whether or not they knew of that person's plans. That anything any of them say will be disregarded because CCP doesn't like m0o. I find such a gaff for someone who's supposed to be an expert in dealing with the community as a whole and people in general to be inexcusable. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Taurar	Posted - 2003.06.28 19:02:00 - [40] i actually prefer people in authority to have opinions it saves so much on having spineless people incharge Malachlite incognito
Shintai	Posted - 2003.06.28 19:12:00 - [41] If this is CCP¦s view on PvP. Since Pann is PR manager. Then I will quit it the same day they ban m0o. I don¦t like m0o. They anoy us aswell. Tho mostly boost our shipsales. But would it end with m0o? Whats next when 2 corps are fighting. Corp A declares War on Corp B. Corp B likes to rip the fields of ore that Corp A uses aswell. Corp A have got enough of it. Corp A is alot smaller but know how to fight and kills and pods alot in Corp B. Corp B whines and Pann come in an ban all in Corp A after they have camped Corp B for a few days. Great...why not remove PvP then and make this EnB or something. We could just aswell play SWG or something crappy. Do we play EVE for item buildup only? And can we remove NPC pirates at gates too. It¦s really griefing our bistot convoys of indies. Ban m0o, and say bye to alot of players. If we don¦t have m0o to hate, we will hate CCP instead. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.28 19:21:00 - [42] << actually prefer people in authority to have opinions it saves so much on having spineless people incharge Malachlite incognito http://www.evegate.net/ >> A judge doesn't like crime nor criminals. But his position requires him to present a fair and impartial image. And like it or not, CCP are the judges here. A judge cannot declare before a trial "I don't like you nor anything about you" and expect to actually preside over that trial. He'll get removed. A judge or referee in any sport can't declare "I hate the way your team plays ball" and expect to remain a judge or referee because they've already shown bias against one side. A community representative cannot tell a group of players "I believe m00 has exploited and they should be banned." and expect me to believe that if they do get banned that her bias did not play a role in the decision. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.06.28 19:22:00 - [43] rather than move m00 I think they should spawn a squad of concord battleships every time m0o stays for long in the same place inside empire space.
Singular	Posted - 2003.06.28 19:40:00 - [44] Seems you people believe in democracies with all this voting going on. Well, guess what. Democracies exist to protect the minority from the majority. As Ben Franklin said, "Those that are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither" Im Yo Huckleberreh
Endureth	Posted - 2003.06.28 19:44:00 - [45] I'm surprised this topic isn't locked. Whatever decision CCP decides to make isn't really up for vote. It's their game, their world. They decide who plays and who doesn't. If you do what m00 has done for this long, expect to be penalized/booted. They utterly destroy the enjoyment of hundreds of players. They cost CCP money. However, on the flip side, there is the arguement that, "CCP implemented this type of gameplay, what's the problem." And they are right. Where is the content? People like m00 have absolutely nothing left to do in this game. The game has run it's course for them and for most other people once they get their cruiser. The game is lacking, and lacking seriously. It was released far too early just as every single beta tester tried to tell CCP. This problem goes far deeper than a bunch of kids running around in cruisers podding everyone, the problem is with the game itself. -E
Callas	Posted - 2003.06.28 20:03:00 - [46] Quote: Like it or not, this is human nature. It was human nature to club your opposing males over the head with a club and steal their woman until we became more civilized. Aside from the fact I dispute this claim in the first place (human nature? what is human nature? I for one certainly distinguish between personal opinion and professional behaviour), even if it is so does not mean it is right or that it should not change; and as such going along with it is quite the wrong thing to do. Do we really merely aspire to the lowest common denominator? -- Callas
Stem	Posted - 2003.06.28 20:08:00 - [47] I remember just before Beta ended reading a post in the Beta boards form someone talking about the combat in even and how unbalanced and broken it was. He came up with some rather good ideas (that I can't remember now) on how to fix the problems. He also warned CCP that if these problems were not address by the time EVE went live, that he and his friend where going to demonstrate just how lame the combat system really is. I have no problem with m0o and how they are playing the game. I do though have a problem with CCP, and there inability to address some SERIOUS flaws in the game, and spending there time on little stuff. Or is the game just that broken that they are unable to fix it now. Edited by: Stem on 28/06/2003 20:10:29
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.28 20:09:00 - [48] << It's their game, their world. >> So long as people continue to hold up this falsehood, it will be exactly that. And it is false because our money allows them to eat, to pay their bills and to survive. It is our game and what we approve or disapprove of as a whole shapes the game. SOE/Verant's "Vision" included "Hell Levels". If it were "their game, their world" wouldn't the Hell Levels still exist? << They utterly destroy the enjoyment of hundreds of players. They cost CCP money. >> I don't buy this argument. First of all, not everyone feels the same when they get shot down. Some people shrug it off as a part of the game with no problem (myself included). So of the people that get killed by m0o, not every single one of them had their enjoyment "utterly destroyed". Second of all, "hundreds" equals a minority in this game. Thousands have never even been in the same solar system as m0o, possibly even in the same region. A very vocal, very small minority is using m0o to push PvP further and further away for their own gain. This whole issue has been blown to hell and back by the vocal minority. "m0o kills newbies". So what? They kill everything pretty much indiscriminately. And they haven't killed every newbie like the claims would make people believe. They haven't even killed a significant portion of the newbies. So what if the that very vocal, very small minority doesn't like their gamestyle? It's not worth sacrificing the potential of the majority to satify them. Edited by: Jash Illian on 28/06/2003 20:18:23 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.28 20:14:00 - [49] << Do we really merely aspire to the lowest common denominator? >> Aspirations are the concern of individuals. You can aspire to be the best person in the world but while you may change, the rest of the world is likely not to change. The "lowest common denominator" is called "The Majority". And "the lowest common denominator" aka "The Majority" will take a public statement of an official representative's personal opinion as an official statement of the stance of the body they represent. Like it, love it, hate it...Doesn't matter. And that's why they have to have no public personal opinion. Edited by: Jash Illian on 28/06/2003 20:19:11 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Blackie	Posted - 2003.06.28 20:37:00 - [50] so what kind of script is this thing trying to run and getting blocked from doign so?
JohnnyBlaze	Posted - 2003.06.28 21:15:00 - [51] IMHO, ccp can help themselves and the gaming community by banning moo corp. They save time dealing with the idiot *******s who KNOW they are ruining the game for others and save money by people no longer being turned off by having their ship destroyed so they can have a fun experience. There are BETTER issues to deal with. This is not moo's game and they are a minority. BAN EM ALL. The name's johnnyblaze ain't a damn thing changed.
Farifax	Posted - 2003.06.28 21:31:00 - [52] QUOTE "None of us have been using containers like that for a long time." END QUOTE LIES! your own guy montey got caught out by warping back to a gate he had canned up and M3G4 where waiting for his ass. Chat log follows = "Montey > a equppied indy Tank CEO > montey got owned Suleiman > nothing personal montey...just looked like a nice bounty on ya there Montey > yea with my own cans tank Suleiman > later man Montey > i lose a thorax a week Farifax > did you get lagged out by your own cans mon? Montey > i lagged out Farifax > HAHAHAH :') Montey > and got blown up Montey > no pod tho Farifax > when you drop em.. your meant to stay there Narayan Diesel > yuo suck montey:) Montey > lol Narayan Diesel > come get me fool:)"
Sabahl	Posted - 2003.06.28 21:31:00 - [53] J0rt said - "None of us have been using containers like that for a long time." Now that's not entirely true is it.
Berious	Posted - 2003.06.28 21:37:00 - [54] I say, exploiters and/or griefers should be banned without mercy (after an e-mail from a GM telling them to cease and desist).
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2003.06.29 00:16:00 - [55] All I can say is: Go Pann. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Proph	Posted - 2003.06.29 04:38:00 - [56] That chat log...is edited, whether intentionally or not I have no way of knowing. I happened to be in #eve-online during that discussion, and there was a very clear point before Pann said "<Pann> m00 is not supposed to be pulling that crap in Empire space and you know it, j0rt." where she asked j0rt's permission to give her personal opinion about the whole m0o thing (because someone had asked her). I'm not stepping in to take sides, but I do want to note it for the record. I believe someone mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I thought it worth reiterating. And I'll also add that the only Pann in the channel at the time was, indeed, @Pann and not some imposter - in case anyone doubts the authenticity of what they read. -Proph Edited by: Proph on 29/06/2003 04:40:04
ABNTanker	Posted - 2003.06.29 08:25:00 - [57] I wish you all would start using time stamps so everyone including myself knows WHEN the screenshots or conversation took place. I am not taking anybodys word. I want to see proof and I expect nothing less of myself if I am gonna go post screenies or conversations accusing someone of something. As for Pann, its already been suggested that an official line of communication be established between CCP and m0o. All it would take is ONE babysitter letting m0o know whether or not what there doing is fine. So there would be none of this draining of resources or accusations of exploiting as Pann mentions. Edited by: ABNTanker on 29/06/2003 08:26:04
Capn Blood	Posted - 2003.06.29 08:41:00 - [58] I don't think it matters about the containers or the griefing or whatnot any more. FACTS ARE NO LONGER IMPORTANT. m0o have made themselves such an ISSUE that CCP will feel something has to be done. I believe someone in m0o in that IRC conversation said that because they COULD do something, they WOULD continue to do so. Basically...we know it's not how it's meant to be done..but we're going to do so anyway. m0o have gone out of their way to cause as much disruption as possible, deliberately to a newly launched and developing game. A business in which CCP has invested a lot of money, if we want to look at it from a RL point of view. To be honest that's the ONLY way CCP will look at this, and rightly so, they have an investment to protect. If m0o get banned they've only themselves to blame. EDIT ---- I have a funny feeling that this comment will come back to haunt you. [08:03:PM] <j0rt^> if the game allows us to do it then we will until we cant ;) Thats a nice clear...yeah we're griefers and don't care. You're forcing CCP's hand in this. m0o, you're making it very hard for CCP NOT to do something drastic. You're playing Dr. Frankenstein to the masses Monster. You created it. You loved the attention and notoriety. Please don't look surprised when something major comes along and whacks you from behind. You do understand this, right? It's not just obvious to me alone? If you like the game at all, ease off a bit, it would be a shame for EVE to be m0oless....but that's where you are pushing CCP atm. Edited by: Capn Blood on 29/06/2003 08:49:24 ============================================== "Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'. These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians." The book of Rab Chapter 1, Verse 3. ==============================================
Mayumi	Posted - 2003.06.29 08:47:00 - [59] This discussion is over. I'm sorry that I didn't get to read this sooner, but I was working in my non-volunteer job and haven't seen this thread until this morning. As far as I'm aware, Pann was present in the channel, and those were her words. Now, I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen, so this thread will still remain, it will just be locked. Pann may add her own thoughts to this thread at some point, that's up to her. Why am I locking the thread? I feel that the arguments in this thread were displayed on page 1, and that they are being repeated from page to page in an attempt to draw lots of attention to the thread. Like I said before, I'm not denying this event took place, but I'm not going to allow people to drag the issue on forever. -- Forum Rules \| Customer Support \| Contact CRC

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