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Rowan
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Posted - 2003.06.28 14:44:00 -
[1]
Times in the document are MST. This was logged Friday, June 27th.
http://servers.durp.org/pann.doc
Edited by: Rowan on 28/06/2003 14:44:59
Thread locked - please see comment at the end of the thread for more details - Mayumi
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Zora
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Posted - 2003.06.28 14:55:00 -
[2]
hmm... thanks, very interesting read :)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:05:00 -
[3]
Dare I ask WTF WAS THAT?!?
That is the most...bah, I won't go into it. If I did, it'd be ugly. I will say CCP needed to review their staff...
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Shinana
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:12:00 -
[4]
Pann has always been very outspoken compared to other community managers (EA, Blizzard, those guys usually respond very minimally and vaguely). To be honest, I like her forthrightness, even if I don't always agree with what she says (that doesn't mean I disagree with her here. I neither confirm nor deny, senator.).
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Axelay
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:19:00 -
[5]
Definately..
That explains why the dozens of suggestions I have sent to Pannish have gone by without notice. I think I will mail them to Campion, he seems to have a bit more of an objective outlook on how the game dynamics need to be changed.
Rather than the emotional standpoing of 'm0o is bad!! ban them all!'
And how unprofessional is it to publicly accuse an entire group of exploiting when there is absolutely no evidence to support it?
Crazy..
I thought she was more mature than to sink to such depths of emotional un-objectivity.
_____
m0o
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:24:00 -
[6]
Is there some irrefutable evidence that that was really Pann?
All I saw was some chat long thing..
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Daemun Khanid
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:25:00 -
[7]
First off, I don't believe that should have been posted without the consent of all parties involved. Second, as far as what Pann said I agree. Certain persons are known to have used and still use exploits regardless of the excuses and denials the spew forth. Some people seem to have a real problem understanding the definition of exploit. I say stop playing nice and treat them the way anyone found to be cheating or using exploits should be treated. Ban them and move on.
Edited by: Daemun Khanid on 28/06/2003 15:28:42
VADM. Daemun of Khanid |
CortexX
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:26:00 -
[8]
To some degree I agree with Pan
There has to be far too much focus and time wasted dealing with MOO and all the petitions and aggro they cause . Id rather see this time spent adding content to the game for the benefit of everyone else .
As members of the playerbase MoO have a responsibilty to their fellow players to act with some sensibility and behave in a realisticly acceptable manner . Unfortunately they dont see this point of view .
There are ways to play the pirate character without indescriminate killing of everyone they find . Now they find that everyone logs and docks when they are around , they have made the game boring as hell for themselves and are now complaining about it.
If Pan and the rest of his staff really feel like this ( a larger percentage of the playerbase certainly do )then i suggest they make an example of M0o and ban them and dissolve their corp .
This should be followed with some guidelines for pirating for the other pirates to follow . This is a compromise i have seen in other online games .
The systematic killing of noobs is very detrimental to the game , if the game gets a bad reputation for this it will very quickly show in the numbers . Most people start playing a game online after checking out its reviews and reading its forums . No matter how you look at it or what your opinion is , this is a solid fact that can`t be ignored !
Its about time for CCP to show some sack and act for the good of the game .
CortexX
(freelancers guild member)
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Flaloch
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:27:00 -
[9]
If that was Pann....
1) Fix the game
2) Go Pann !!!!
"The people expected it of me and I had got to do it; I could feel their two thousand wills pressing me forward, irresistibly. "
- Orwell |
Luka Liki
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:29:00 -
[10]
Axelay, you seem well knowledged about exploits. Maybe you should try not be so 'straight-to-the-cheese' next time.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=12959
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:34:00 -
[11]
<< (EA, Blizzard, those guys usually respond very minimally and vaguely). >>
I'd take EA or Blizzard when it comes to whether or not comments from official sources are colored by personal feelings.
Bah...screw it, I'm gonna go into it. That is by far the most unprofessional display I've seen out of CCP to date. If an employee of any other business that involves customer service went so far to display their personal opinion of someone so publically, I'd be demanding to speak with their manager. Oops...CCP doesn't have a Customer Service Manager to my knowledge.
This will quickly get turned into "Pann said that m0o was exploiters!" which is obviously wrong since she apparently lacks any evidence to support her beliefs. As a Community Manager, way to frellin go </sarcasm>. Those little personal opinions will be used for the coming weeks to as gospel that m0o is exploiting. The fact that it's only a personal belief lacking evidence (or would you care to explain having evidence yet allowing them to stay?) will be lost.
As an official representative of CCP who is going to be quoted even if she belches...Well I fire people that pull stunts like that in front of my customers.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Damon Vile
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:42:00 -
[12]
That log isn't the whole story..as always
Someone asked pann what she thought of the whole thing. She asked moo if it was ok to post her personal opinion of the "moo problem" Both moo ppl ( strav and jort ) said go for it.
There are far to many games out there where you never hear from the devs at all. CCP may not always say what you want to hear but atleast they talk to you like you're a person.
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Sankari Kinoi
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:48:00 -
[13]
Oh please, are we all that fragile that we can't read a little comment from a Game Company Rep?
It was unprofessional?
It was Pann's personal opinion. Big deal.
Yep, CCP should fix the lag loophole which m0o love to use. But that's no excuse to actually use it.
CCP should published a "Fair-Play" policy. It's nice to try and create a no-rules world, but it's far to obvious it'll never work whilst people try and look for an advantage over others.
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:48:00 -
[14]
Ya, I kind of suspected that the "chat log" was either trimmed for content (to someone's own specification), or fabricated entirely.
I'm not suprised that the whole story wasn't presented there.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:49:00 -
[15]
<< CCP may not always say what you want to hear but atleast they talk to you like you're a person. >>
Maybe that's why they keep looking like amateurs.
There is no such thing as "Off the record" for a developer, any more than there is for a politician. Anything they say will be taken as gospel. The Gospel According to Pann is that m0o are a bunch of exploiters. So:
1) Where's the proof?
2) Why are they still here?
If those questions can't be answered, then she never should have said a single word in public.
Vacuole and Damon Vile:
Maybe I read better than most but I think
"[08:04:PM] <Pann> I would never say this publicly, but if you're here, j0rt, and you have no problem with me saying this in front of other people, I will say it.
[08:04:PM] <j0rt^> say what you want"
most people should have caught that.
Sankari Kinoi:
Yes it's unprofessional. It's not about being too fragile to handle the truth. It's about stirring up more crap with your personal opinons that are going to be taken as an official stance despite all logic. "Pann said m0o are exploiters!" but yet they're still playing the game.
Daemun Khanid:
I read the log line for line. Most companies I know, mine included, fire people for stating their personal opinion about any client or customer in public. It doesn't matter whether or not people agree with that opinion.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 28/06/2003 15:58:22
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Daemun Khanid
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:50:00 -
[16]
Anyone who has something negative to say about Pann's comments really should read the entire log more thoroughly and follow what was being said. I don't think Pan was out of line in anyway what-so-ever.
VADM. Daemun of Khanid |
Anaconda
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:55:00 -
[17]
This is over today. I am leaving EvE. I have never seen another MMORPG handling customer problems in these amateur ways.
CCP has put the rules of the game and some people are using THAT rules to kill other people. Damn it why don't you just raise security rating of systems instead of banning customers without reasons. After seeing this actions noone will want to be pirate anymore.
The game is over boring, and if you destroy pvp element too, it will be a just mining simulator and you will lose customers in time.
I have always defended you since beta 5 and i always told people to be patient and give time to CCP. But this is too far, i wish you good luck and i hope you won't get bankrupted.
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Torval Sontu
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Posted - 2003.06.28 15:57:00 -
[18]
Yes again people are being selective on what others say.
Pann gave a personal opinion that didn't reflect CCP's views so why are people upset?
Apparently more people agree with Pann's views in IRC than on the boards so :).
Regardless people should know how Stavr0s thinks and views this game not to mention his fellow corp members. They have made it obvious from the get go and I do agree with some views even if they go about them wrong.
I guess people like defending silly acts much like a teenager being a smartass to a cop thinking they can't do anything to them since they are underage.
In the end though this attempt at trolling I have to give a 6/10 since I expected this after last night.
Anyhoo at the end of the day...
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Slam
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:00:00 -
[19]
all I read is:
*m0o thumping chest*
*Pann thumping chest*
Morb talking reason
*m0o thumping chest*
*Pann thumping chest*
Morb and Athan talking reason
etc. etc.
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Rowan
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:04:00 -
[20]
Vacuole, if you want to see the log with all the joins, away messages, and disconnects back in, i'll send it to you. I took those out and double-spaced it so it was easier to read. As far as whether or not that was the real Pann, ask j0rt or stavr0s, they'll tell you she was there.
And Torval, if you're accusing me of trolling, grow up. All I was doing was posting something I thought the general population that isn't on #eve-online would be interested in.
Edited by: Rowan on 28/06/2003 16:10:39
Edited by: Rowan on 28/06/2003 16:11:38
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Cymoril
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:09:00 -
[21]
I think the part about M0o that is the funniest, is how whenever they are accused of exploiting, their response almost always includes, "But the game let's us do it, so how is that an exploit? We are just doing what the game lets us do."
Is it possible to be more stupid? Think for a minute, by definition, an exploit is something that the game allows you to do, but you shouldn't be doing it. If the game didn't allow for something, how the hell COULD you exploit it?
Now they are whining that they have nothing to do. Well, go play something else then. CCP owes you nothing. If you are bored with this game, it is your own fault.
CCP's biggest error isn't in their programming. It is in their lack of commiting to what is an exploit and what isn't. Every time you log in, players should be expected to read the news window that pops up. Exploits should be clearly defined here (until they get fixed). If a player does something that is listed as being an exploit, they get banned. This way, there would be no argueing, no ambiguity, no crying. All CCP would have to do at that point is say, "We clearly listed this activity as an exploit, and you continued to do it anyway." Problem solved. |
Buttercup
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:12:00 -
[22]
"This is over today. I am leaving EvE. I have never seen another MMORPG handling customer problems in these amateur ways."
ok, lets get this right. Pann recived PERMISSION from the client before stating a personal opinion, amateur? no, thats your reaction.
ppl get upset cuz this is panns opinion? as far as i kow, Pann is NOT a dev, but brings the issues and comments that we have TO them, NOT fix them herself. less then a week ago, 99% were all yelling for Pann to do/say something, if there was anyway to do it, this was the most pro. way to do it. Everyone has opinions, Pann does not effect the game with personal opinions, DEV's *MIGHT*, this is also not a dev.
moo said there was no 1 there size to fight em? hahaha, stop the cargo droping and the station hugging, and i'm sure there are plenty of corps willing to take a shot :)
pillow fights and brownies |
Yangja Isuko
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:13:00 -
[23]
stop whining people. both sides.
YOU!
YOU!
shut UP.
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Luka Liki
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:18:00 -
[24]
*Hands Yangja Isuko some fresh cheese*
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:23:00 -
[25]
<Setec> woah just read that log of pann talking about m0o, that's nuts
<Quantum> Pretty crazy huh?
<Setec> i wonder if the server has the nickname pann reserved for her or if somebody could imposter
* Setec is now known as Pann
<Elixir> hĘhĘ
<dk2> Setec: wheres it at?
* Pann is now known as Setec
<[Talon]Revolution> got link?
<Setec> answers that!!
Aha!
It wasn't necessarily actually Pann. The channel does not have that nickname reserved for the real Pann or anything. Sounds to me like it's an imposter.
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:27:00 -
[26]
<< Aha!
It wasn't necessarily actually Pann. The channel does not have that nickname reserved for the real Pann or anything. Sounds to me like it's an imposter. >>
Okay, Setec. I'll call off the dogs as that's actually a good point, unlike the ones coming from the "Nerds in Love with Any Female on the Net".
Personally, I find it completely credible that the real Pann would post something like that in an IRC channel based on past observance of her. But we can wait till Pann comes here and comments. Which I seriously doubt she will.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 28/06/2003 16:27:56
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Adam DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:32:00 -
[27]
Axelay? no proof? thats like standing with a smoking gun and say "i didnt do it" unfortunatley there is ALOT of proof of what many members have done in m0o |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:39:00 -
[28]
<< Axelay? no proof? thats like standing with a smoking gun and say "i didnt do it" unfortunatley there is ALOT of proof of what many members have done in m0o >>
Then why aren't they banned? And don't give me that "CCP is just trying to be nice" or "They're using them to find bugs" crap. Neither are worth allowing exploiters to remain in the game.
So where is the proof (and not your opinion of what is an exploit either, since you have no authority to declare exploits)?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Spider Jeru
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:46:00 -
[29]
Oops. I hate when I accidentally leave dozens of containers laying around the belts like this
http://firefrost.free.fr/eve/raid_on_m00/Image9.jpg
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.06.28 16:48:00 -
[30]
Well those 2 screens posted in the chat are proof enough to me.
If that was really Pann chatting then I donŠt see any problem with it. You asked her for her personal opinion, she told you her opinion and now you whine about it? Really... THATŠS lame.
You play lame, so donŠt wonder when people tell you just that. And donŠt act like youŠre all righteous or something, youŠre not.
If you so hate the mechanics of the game and are so upset about them, and if you "own anything" and are "so bored" then why the hell donŠt you just leave? Answer is simple: You love all the attention and for once in your life youŠre in the middle of something and people talk about you... something that obviously wasnŠt done in any other game.
In other games people who do these kinds of things simply get banned, actually you should be happy with CCP or their representatives. They are nice enough to even let guys like you be around.
Mai's Idealog |
Vacuole
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Posted - 2003.06.28 17:23:00 -
[31]
Well, I still see no hard evidence that it was Pann, or J0rt or that other m0o guy for that matter.
I guess what would make it more convincing is if the parties involved were to vouch for it.
I mean, yeah.. it probably was.. but until they step-up and vouch for it here, where auditing DOES contol nicknames, etc. then it'll remain heresay, atleast in my mind.
Thanks!
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Stavros
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Posted - 2003.06.28 17:28:00 -
[32]
those logs are real and the people involved are genuine, whilst panns name isnt reservered if you notice it has opps in the logs (at least in my logs) and I was actually there, so yes its genuine.
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
j0rt
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Posted - 2003.06.28 17:29:00 -
[33]
Its kinda hard being stuck in the middle of all this. I wish people wouldnt keep posting screenshots of when we were in mara which was b4 the concord incident it was like 3 weeks ago now mybe more. None of us have been using containers like that for a long time. I also wish people wouldnt moan about others exploiting, as in life you use what advantages you have over an opponent enemy. The cargo containers were not used to lag people they were merely used as cover and missile protection. Deal with it, Polaris said it was ok, GM's said what we were doing was ok. We even had a Dev watching us the other day. they are contented what does the opinion of the token PR skirt matter ;).
Edited by: j0rt on 28/06/2003 17:31:21
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smoked
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Posted - 2003.06.28 17:58:00 -
[34]
ROFLMAO - blow them up first, then ban them for awhile hehe.
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:09:00 -
[35]
 Quote:
There is no such thing as "Off the record" for a developer, any more than there is for a politician. Anything they say will be taken as gospel.
It does not have to be so, and it only is so if you, me, them - if we choose to treat comments so.
Personally, I truely hate such an attitude. We are all individuals, with our own personal opinions, and our personal opinions are quite distinct from our professional behaviour.
To say that a person in a position of responsibility can no longer express their personal opinons because other people will treat them as *professional* opinions is dehumanizing, and very *very* stupid on the part of the mass of people; I for one will not be a part of that or pander to it by accepting it as the way things are.
--
Callas
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Zilla
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:28:00 -
[36]
Ran into Lord Zap a few days ago. Funny how it took 3-4 times longer than usual to load the scene... well, not that funny, considering the number of containers he'd already spread around himself.
Not done it for ages, eh?
Pff.
More power to Pann's elbow.
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Signus
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:33:00 -
[37]
"I also wish people wouldnt moan about others exploiting, as in life you use what advantages you have over an opponent enemy."-Jort
Spoken like a true Griefer....Time for you to go pester some other game MOo. Take your rabble with you J0rt and go upset someone elses playerbase with your exploitations. |
Lallante
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:34:00 -
[38]
j0rt gets it in 1
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 18:40:00 -
[39]
<< It does not have to be so, and it only is so if you, me, them - if we choose to treat comments so.
Personally, I truely hate such an attitude. We are all individuals, with our own personal opinions, and our personal opinions are quite distinct from our professional behaviour.
To say that a person in a position of responsibility can no longer express their personal opinons because other people will treat them as *professional* opinions is dehumanizing, and very *very* stupid on the part of the mass of people; I for one will not be a part of that or pander to it by accepting it as the way things are.
--
Callas >>
Like it or not, this is human nature. A person in authority has to have no personal opinion. I obviously know that what Pann said is her personal opinion and that CCP's stance is obviously different. That much is obvious based on the actions taken against m0o so far.
But I'm not everyone. And people will hold her statements up as gospel that CCP said m0o is exploiters. For a person who's job description is communicating with the playerbase as a whole, that behavior is inexcusable. The position she now presents (as shown by Axelay's comment earlier) is one of bias against m0o. By showing open hostility towards them, the position she (and CCP by association) presents is that anything involving a member of m0o will never be judged fairly.
That if 1 person in the group hacks the server, for example, they will all share his fate regardless of whether or not they knew of that person's plans. That anything any of them say will be disregarded because CCP doesn't like m0o.
I find such a gaff for someone who's supposed to be an expert in dealing with the community as a whole and people in general to be inexcusable.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Taurar
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Posted - 2003.06.28 19:02:00 -
[40]
i actually prefer people in authority to have opinions
it saves so much on having spineless people incharge
Malachlite incognito |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.28 19:12:00 -
[41]
If this is CCPŠs view on PvP. Since Pann is PR manager. Then I will quit it the same day they ban m0o. I donŠt like m0o. They anoy us aswell. Tho mostly boost our shipsales.
But would it end with m0o?
Whats next when 2 corps are fighting. Corp A declares War on Corp B. Corp B likes to rip the fields of ore that Corp A uses aswell. Corp A have got enough of it. Corp A is alot smaller but know how to fight and kills and pods alot in Corp B. Corp B whines and Pann come in an ban all in Corp A after they have camped Corp B for a few days. Great...why not remove PvP then and make this EnB or something.
We could just aswell play SWG or something crappy.
Do we play EVE for item buildup only? And can we remove NPC pirates at gates too. ItŠs really griefing our bistot convoys of indies.
Ban m0o, and say bye to alot of players. If we donŠt have m0o to hate, we will hate CCP instead.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 19:21:00 -
[42]
<< actually prefer people in authority to have opinions
it saves so much on having spineless people incharge
Malachlite incognito
http://www.evegate.net/ >>
A judge doesn't like crime nor criminals. But his position requires him to present a fair and impartial image. And like it or not, CCP are the judges here.
A judge cannot declare before a trial "I don't like you nor anything about you" and expect to actually preside over that trial. He'll get removed. A judge or referee in any sport can't declare "I hate the way your team plays ball" and expect to remain a judge or referee because they've already shown bias against one side.
A community representative cannot tell a group of players "I believe m00 has exploited and they should be banned." and expect me to believe that if they do get banned that her bias did not play a role in the decision.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2003.06.28 19:22:00 -
[43]
rather than move m00 I think they should spawn a squad of concord battleships every time m0o stays for long in the same place inside empire space.
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.06.28 19:40:00 -
[44]
Seems you people believe in democracies with all this voting going on.
Well, guess what. Democracies exist to protect the minority from the majority.
As Ben Franklin said, "Those that are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither"
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Endureth
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Posted - 2003.06.28 19:44:00 -
[45]
I'm surprised this topic isn't locked. Whatever decision CCP decides to make isn't really up for vote. It's their game, their world. They decide who plays and who doesn't. If you do what m00 has done for this long, expect to be penalized/booted.
They utterly destroy the enjoyment of hundreds of players. They cost CCP money.
However, on the flip side, there is the arguement that, "CCP implemented this type of gameplay, what's the problem." And they are right. Where is the content?
People like m00 have absolutely nothing left to do in this game. The game has run it's course for them and for most other people once they get their cruiser. The game is lacking, and lacking seriously.
It was released far too early just as every single beta tester tried to tell CCP.
This problem goes far deeper than a bunch of kids running around in cruisers podding everyone, the problem is with the game itself.
-E
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.28 20:03:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Like it or not, this is human nature.
It was human nature to club your opposing males over the head with a club and steal their woman until we became more civilized.
Aside from the fact I dispute this claim in the first place (human nature? what *is* human nature? I for one certainly distinguish between personal opinion and professional behaviour), even if it is so does not mean it is right or that it should not change; and as such going along with it is quite the wrong thing to do.
Do we really merely aspire to the lowest common denominator?
--
Callas
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Stem
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Posted - 2003.06.28 20:08:00 -
[47]
I remember just before Beta ended reading a post in the Beta boards form someone talking about the combat in even and how unbalanced and broken it was. He came up with some rather good ideas (that I can't remember now) on how to fix the problems. He also warned CCP that if these problems were not address by the time EVE went live, that he and his friend where going to demonstrate just how lame the combat system really is.
I have no problem with m0o and how they are playing the game. I do though have a problem with CCP, and there inability to address some SERIOUS flaws in the game, and spending there time on little stuff. Or is the game just that broken that they are unable to fix it now.
Edited by: Stem on 28/06/2003 20:10:29 |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 20:09:00 -
[48]
<< It's their game, their world. >>
So long as people continue to hold up this falsehood, it will be exactly that. And it is false because our money allows them to eat, to pay their bills and to survive. It is our game and what we approve or disapprove of as a whole shapes the game.
SOE/Verant's "Vision" included "Hell Levels". If it were "their game, their world" wouldn't the Hell Levels still exist?
<< They utterly destroy the enjoyment of hundreds of players. They cost CCP money. >>
I don't buy this argument. First of all, not everyone feels the same when they get shot down. Some people shrug it off as a part of the game with no problem (myself included). So of the people that get killed by m0o, not every single one of them had their enjoyment "utterly destroyed".
Second of all, "hundreds" equals a minority in this game. Thousands have never even been in the same solar system as m0o, possibly even in the same region. A very vocal, very small minority is using m0o to push PvP further and further away for their own gain.
This whole issue has been blown to hell and back by the vocal minority. "m0o kills newbies". So what? They kill everything pretty much indiscriminately. And they haven't killed every newbie like the claims would make people believe. They haven't even killed a significant portion of the newbies. So what if the that very vocal, very small minority doesn't like their gamestyle? It's not worth sacrificing the potential of the majority to satify them.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 28/06/2003 20:18:23
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.28 20:14:00 -
[49]
<< Do we really merely aspire to the lowest common denominator? >>
Aspirations are the concern of individuals. You can aspire to be the best person in the world but while you may change, the rest of the world is likely not to change.
The "lowest common denominator" is called "The Majority". And "the lowest common denominator" aka "The Majority" will take a public statement of an official representative's personal opinion as an official statement of the stance of the body they represent. Like it, love it, hate it...Doesn't matter.
And that's why they have to have no public personal opinion.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 28/06/2003 20:19:11
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Blackie
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Posted - 2003.06.28 20:37:00 -
[50]
so what kind of script is this thing trying to run and getting blocked from doign so?
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JohnnyBlaze
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Posted - 2003.06.28 21:15:00 -
[51]
IMHO, ccp can help themselves and the gaming community by banning moo corp. They save time dealing with the idiot *******s who KNOW they are ruining the game for others and save money by people no longer being turned off by having their ship destroyed so they can have a fun experience. There are BETTER issues to deal with. This is not moo's game and they are a minority. BAN EM ALL.
The name's johnnyblaze ain't a damn thing changed. |
Farifax
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Posted - 2003.06.28 21:31:00 -
[52]
QUOTE "None of us have been using containers like that for a long time." END QUOTE
LIES!
your own guy montey got caught out by warping back to a gate he had canned up and M3G4 where waiting for his ass. Chat log follows =
"Montey > a equppied indy
Tank CEO > montey got owned
Suleiman > nothing personal montey...just looked like a nice bounty on ya there
Montey > yea with my own cans tank
Suleiman > later man
Montey > i lose a thorax a week
Farifax > did you get lagged out by your own cans mon?
Montey > i lagged out
Farifax > HAHAHAH :')
Montey > and got blown up
Montey > no pod tho
Farifax > when you drop em.. your meant to stay there
Narayan Diesel > yuo suck montey:)
Montey > lol
Narayan Diesel > come get me fool:)"
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Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.06.28 21:31:00 -
[53]
J0rt said - "None of us have been using containers like that for a long time."
Now that's not entirely true is it.
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Berious
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Posted - 2003.06.28 21:37:00 -
[54]
I say, exploiters and/or griefers should be banned without mercy (after an e-mail from a GM telling them to cease and desist). |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2003.06.29 00:16:00 -
[55]
All I can say is: Go Pann.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Proph
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Posted - 2003.06.29 04:38:00 -
[56]
That chat log...is edited, whether intentionally or not I have no way of knowing. I happened to be in #eve-online during that discussion, and there was a very clear point before Pann said
"<Pann> m00 is not supposed to be pulling that crap in Empire space and you know it, j0rt."
where she asked j0rt's permission to give her personal opinion about the whole m0o thing (because someone had asked her). I'm not stepping in to take sides, but I do want to note it for the record. I believe someone mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I thought it worth reiterating.
And I'll also add that the only Pann in the channel at the time was, indeed, @Pann and not some imposter - in case anyone doubts the authenticity of what they read.
-Proph
Edited by: Proph on 29/06/2003 04:40:04
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ABNTanker
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Posted - 2003.06.29 08:25:00 -
[57]
I wish you all would start using time stamps so everyone including myself knows WHEN the screenshots or conversation took place. I am not taking anybodys word. I want to see proof and I expect nothing less of myself if I am gonna go post screenies or conversations accusing someone of something.
As for Pann, its already been suggested that an official line of communication be established between CCP and m0o. All it would take is ONE babysitter letting m0o know whether or not what there doing is fine. So there would be none of this draining of resources or accusations of exploiting as Pann mentions.
Edited by: ABNTanker on 29/06/2003 08:26:04
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Capn Blood
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Posted - 2003.06.29 08:41:00 -
[58]
I don't think it matters about the containers or the griefing or whatnot any more.
FACTS ARE NO LONGER IMPORTANT.
m0o have made themselves such an ISSUE that CCP will feel something has to be done.
I believe someone in m0o in that IRC conversation said that because they COULD do something, they WOULD continue to do so.
Basically...we know it's not how it's meant to be done..but we're going to do so anyway.
m0o have gone out of their way to cause as much disruption as possible, deliberately to a newly launched and developing game. A business in which CCP has invested a lot of money, if we want to look at it from a RL point of view. To be honest that's the ONLY way CCP will look at this, and rightly so, they have an investment to protect.
If m0o get banned they've only themselves to blame.
EDIT ----
I have a funny feeling that this comment will come back to haunt you.
[08:03:PM] <j0rt^> if the game allows us to do it then we will until we cant ;)
Thats a nice clear...yeah we're griefers and don't care.
You're forcing CCP's hand in this.
m0o, you're making it very hard for CCP NOT to do something drastic. You're playing Dr. Frankenstein to the masses Monster.
You created it. You loved the attention and notoriety. Please don't look surprised when something major comes along and whacks you from behind.
You do understand this, right? It's not just obvious to me alone?
If you like the game at all, ease off a bit, it would be a shame for EVE to be m0oless....but that's where you are pushing CCP atm.
Edited by: Capn Blood on 29/06/2003 08:49:24
==============================================
"Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'.
These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians."
The book of Rab
Chapter 1, Verse 3.
============================================== |
Mayumi
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Posted - 2003.06.29 08:47:00 -
[59]
This discussion is over.
I'm sorry that I didn't get to read this sooner, but I was working in my non-volunteer job and haven't seen this thread until this morning.
As far as I'm aware, Pann was present in the channel, and those were her words. Now, I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen, so this thread will still remain, it will just be locked. Pann may add her own thoughts to this thread at some point, that's up to her.
Why am I locking the thread? I feel that the arguments in this thread were displayed on page 1, and that they are being repeated from page to page in an attempt to draw lots of attention to the thread. Like I said before, I'm not denying this event took place, but I'm not going to allow people to drag the issue on forever.
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