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Anhenka Minmatar Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.09.01 04:51:00 - [31] But I have to thank massive nullsec alliances for the moongoo....not a lot of actual mins involved.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.01 05:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Anhenka not a lot of actual mins involved. On the actual harvesting? True enough. But organizing and running the alliance that lets you harvest that moongoo in peace is damn near a full time job. Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 09:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Aiwha Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. Nope. Quote: So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. àand this would be a fair request if the carebears in return stopped QQ:ing about being blown up ù they should be thankful that someone is providing them with a market. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Hey Gumpy	Posted - 2010.09.01 09:48:00 - [34] TBQFH I buy my stuff inter-alliance. It's built out in 0.0, from 0.0 minerals. Also invented out in 0.0 as well.
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:02:00 - [35] I find more irony in the players of this so called sandbox drawing lines in the sand to categorize it's players into two wildly inaccurate groups. Why can't you all just be EVE players and play the game, surely it cannot have escaped your logic that most people clearly have both a "Pirate" and a "Carebear" character kind of making the whole categorization pointless. I like to play a sandbox game because there are no pre-defined careers or paths to success, why do you all insist on creating your own?
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:16:00 - [36] I always thank them for the loot and ISK from the ransom.. Now i also have to say thx for my ship? Isn't that a bit to much? -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
Makko Gray Gallente Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:31:00 - [37] I create and consume - no reason to only have one string to your bow. Carebears are great as long as they don't start thinking the universe owes them a free ride, or that high sec should make the invulnerable from the interactions of others. But those that can take the wardecs and suicide ganks along with the mountains of ore and elite trades deserve praise indeed - we salute you!
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:49:00 - [38] In the experience I have, carebears (the industrialist ones) drive a large part of the EVE economy and the mission runners certainly provide buckets of ISK to PVP'ers who want to sell those deadspace items to carebears. Question remains though, apart from buying bling ships, what do carebears do with all there money?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:51:00 - [39] I find Iron quite Ironic. j/k 0.0 players do have a certain right to knowing how to play. They're selfsufficent, they dont need high sec as much as you think, they do have thier own breed of war bears whom still provide thier back bone, and they live in quite a harsh enviornment, a sort of die or die trying. They make and build thier own and watch and care for thier own. Like a pack of wolves. and btw I wouldnt be classified as a care bear, more like a dead bear as i have a further difficult time to find for playing eve or continue my ingame research on theories and fittings. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
stankpod	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:00:00 - [40] Ill paly the game the way I want and dont give a shart in the wind what you people think about it, If you dont like it drink my pod water
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:07:00 - [41] What is a 'carebear'? In every mmo I have played.. frighteningly since the before some of you were born .. it has stood for someone who enjoys socialising, helping others advance in the game (at their own expense) and doesn't like to see/hear/experience sociopaths griefing others by using gameplay exploits etc. NOTE: PVP is NOT griefing. There is a clear distinction between what constitutes griefing in EVE and what is a legitmate (and fun) play style. That is not what most people are thinking of when they use the term in EVE. I'm not trying to be pedantic here but consider it .. Active, sociable, competitive and geographically transient players (that is most of null sec and low sec populations) loathe the 'EVE' carebear because they display all the opposite qualities to the 'carebear' of old. That is they are often: 1. Fundamentally anti social, viewing EVE as a single player game that everyone else is just visting. 2. Fundamentally anti gameplay, preferring instead to conduct repetative tasks through which they can extend their game footprint/epeen by buying ever more expensive faction fit battleships to spin. 3. Often afk/incommunicado and in so being draw scorn of those who are more active/vocal. 4. Often want to change the game to suit their own playstyle - more so than those who are happy to adapt to the challenges and work around them by using guile, cunning and experience garnered by 'having a go' etc. 5. Usually, but not always, they choose to ignore the complexity and whole areas of the game in favour of a self contained (dumbed down) approach which they have usually carried over from other less challenging games. Which is just a red rag to the bull that are most EVE 'enthusiasts'. Let's face it. You don't have to be an 'anti gamer' or a 'griefer' to loathe and despise EVE 'carebears'. People, not emotionally impaired griefers, regular game playing people with a sense of reality beyond their own ego, hate 'carebears' in EVE because they are anti-EVE. Hold it. Stop. Look. Listen. People who do industry are not carebears. People who mine are not carebears. People who chose to do station trading are not carebears. Carebears in EVE are people who refuse to participate except on their own narrow mandate and there is probably an underline fear that as the number of people who 'play' this way increases exponentially ahead of those who 'have a go' the best bits of EVE will be undermined and eventually ignored by the bean counters. In short: we don't want Universe of Warcraft Online and 'carebears' represent the menacing shadow of that horrible potential outcome cast over EVE. If we accept these people and in so doing they begin to outnumber everyone else then gradually the end of EVE would seem like it is creeping closer and closer with every new sub who pays CCP to go afk in a Golem in high sec. I just wish we had a more derogative (and rankly accurate) term for them that didn't discriminate against legitimate carebears that is people who care about the social fabric and want to help people get into EVE and stick around and join in on ****. Many of whom I have worked with in null sec and high sec alike. Bleh. Vented. Thanks for listening.
RuckaLucka Ali GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:30:00 - [42] Never seen your allaince must be a renter!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:39:00 - [43] Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 11:39:21 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Truth Good vent! edit: in fact, thumbed! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.09.01 12:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 11:39:21 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Truth Good vent! indeed -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 12:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall 1. Fundamentally anti social, viewing EVE as a single player game that everyone else is just visting. 2. Fundamentally anti gameplay, preferring instead to conduct repetative tasks through which they believe that they can extend their game footprint/epeen by buying ever more expensive faction fit battleships to 'win' Worlds Collide. Again. 3. Often afk/incommunicado and in so being draw the scorn of those who are more active/vocal. Or who really don't like the way all these people clog up high sec systems and give the impression to new players that this is what eve is all about and that they should probably start doing the same thing etc. 4. Often want to change the game to suit their own playstyle - more so than those who are happy to adapt to the challenges and work around them by using guile, cunning and experience garnered by 'having a go' etc. 5. Usually, but not always, they choose to ignore the complexity and whole areas of the game in favour of a self contained (dumbed down) approach which they have usually carried over from other less challenging games. Which is just a red rag to the bull that are most EVE 'enthusiasts'. You know, pretty much everything you described could by applied to the elitist/griefer PVPer. 1. Antisocial/destructive behavior... Check 2. Repetitive anti-game play (see ninja salvagers, gate campers)... Check 3. Don't like/jealous because of the way hi sec is populated... Check 4. Desire to change game to suit own playstyle (aka shooting fish in a barrel)... Check 5. Ignore complexity of game to just PVP, because FPS is what they're used to... Check So then I ask you, what's the difference between the carebear and the elitist PVPer? Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.01 13:07:00 - [46] There are lots of carebears in 0.0 as well. In fact, there are probably just as many carebears in 0.0 as there are pvpers in high sec. Being in 0.0 don't make you l33t lol click here
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 13:24:00 - [47] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 You know, pretty much everything you described could by applied to the elitist/griefer PVPer. 1. Antisocial/destructive behavior... Check 2. Repetitive anti-game play (see ninja salvagers, gate campers)... Check 3. Don't like/jealous because of the way hi sec is populated... Check 4. Desire to change game to suit own playstyle (aka shooting fish in a barrel)... Check 5. Ignore complexity of game to just PVP, because FPS is what they're used to... Check So then I ask you, what's the difference between the carebear and the elitist PVPer? On a basic 'principle' level? None whatsoever. On a gameplay and more importantly EVE specific level: Interaction with others. Shooting people in the face is interactive. Its 'emergent'. It has possible outcomes other than the dulcet twang of scripted inevitability. They also have much less of an impact on the long term PVE:PVP ratio as determined by the money men. And so are, in their own infinitely more irritating fashion, considerably less harmful to EVE than expanded PVE and an expanded PVE whoring anti-bear colony. Look I am not dead against anti-bears. I just think they should not be given their own private sub shard (high sec) and game content (PVE) in areas the rest of the population who do choose to play EVE Online not World of Wallies In Space are denied access to; literally or by arbitrary manipulation of the game mechanics (concorde). If you want to anti-bear I want the right to try and shoot you in the face. Of course balance is key and we need a sec system with clear boundries and some redundancy/safety net. Of course I am happy high sec is full of people doing all manner of things interactively with each other. Thats A-ok. Whats not A-ok is expanding PVE content and isk/hr returns to give them even less of a reason to interact and encourage even more of them to subscribe and so create a viscious and terminal cycle of ghastly homogenization and increasingly pasteurised content up to and including 'dancing in stations'. Even though I am looking forward to Incarna! What's not A-ok is making two parallel games based on outside business interests: one of which contains people who irritate each other, the other containing people who ignore everyone else. Then advertising it as emergent etc. Ninjas. Griefers. Opportunity knocker(s) and other emergence cataylsts (I like that one!) in fact colour-in EVE by providing more interactive experience for everyone. That is, like it or not, within acceptable bounds of EVE gameplay. It is EVE gameplay. It is the (unwritten) constitutional right of everyone in EVE to be annoyed by the action (note, action not in-action) of another. Like it or not EVE has a culture. It has a character and it has a context. Anti-bears are a parasitic infection from dance-emote hell. Nobody knows how they got here or which dirty fecker carried them in on the soles of his shoes. But they are here. And they are breeding. They are obscene. They are unholy. They bleed and undermine and eventually distort the game design direction. They harm EVE by making it more profitable in ways that categorically contradict the core principles of EVE sub-culture. So we quite understandably want them shaved, bathed and humanely euthanaised. Before they effectively divide, through sheer numbers, New Eden's diminishing game space any further with the them and 'us' crap sandwich. PS: Excuse my excessive use of parenthesis. I was born before virtual machines. I get counselling for it. Don't worry.
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.09.01 13:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Yet again the truth You sir not only see the essence on EVE, you are also able to write it down! -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
Syn Callibri Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:14:00 - [49] Something I have discovered is this simple truth... Almost everyone was a "carebear" at one time or another. This generally comes from jumping into PvP right away and getting the "v" knocked out of thier PvP, so the collective "they" dwell in Hi-sec training skills and learning how to choose and mod ships to be competative in pew-pew. I can say with a great amount of assurance that NO ONE started this game a PvP superstar...everyone has to start somewhere. ...just my .02 ISK. Syn Callibri Mistress of the Blood Pact "Naut-elghinyrr" of Vulkor-Khaine
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:19:00 - [50] On a basic 'principle' level? None whatsoever. On a gameplay and more importantly EVE specific level: Interaction with others. Shooting people in the face is interactive. Its 'emergent'. It has possible outcomes other than the dulcet twang of scripted inevitability. So the differentiation between "Carebear" and "Elitist PVPer" is shooting at someone else? Do you believe unloading all barrels at the nearest target makes a "Carebear" an "Elitist PVPer"? Where do I stand if I spend all my time ignoring everyone else and then one day I decide to target and subsequently destroy someone else? Do I fit into one of your thinly veiled categorizations then? In addition who are you to say that EVE should be taken in any direction and how are your views and opinions better or equal to that of the "Anti-Bears" views and opinions? Do the "Anti-Bears" not have just as much a right to take the game in the direction they want as you? How is it wrong to want to play EVE as a solo pilot? Isn't it entirely possible for one person to spend half of there EVE career playing solo and isolated and the rest as an "Elitist PVPer" once they reach a certain point? Should the people who do this not be given the chance to do so because they do not meet the criteria you have laid out here and therefore should be deemed hazardous to the health and integrity of EVE's future? I understand the points you have made but you fail to take into account, EVE needs both the solo/isolated pilots and the PVPers to be EVE, without one side of the coin EVE would get boring fast, and would no longer be a sandbox, and ultimately is that not the point of EVE? To play as you want, when you want and how you want?
Syn Callibri Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Sol Mahon On a basic 'principle' level? None whatsoever. On a gameplay and more importantly EVE specific level: Interaction with others. Shooting people in the face is interactive. Its 'emergent'. It has possible outcomes other than the dulcet twang of scripted inevitability. So the differentiation between "Carebear" and "Elitist PVPer" is shooting at someone else? Do you believe unloading all barrels at the nearest target makes a "Carebear" an "Elitist PVPer"? Where do I stand if I spend all my time ignoring everyone else and then one day I decide to target and subsequently destroy someone else? Do I fit into one of your thinly veiled categorizations then? In addition who are you to say that EVE should be taken in any direction and how are your views and opinions better or equal to that of the "Anti-Bears" views and opinions? Do the "Anti-Bears" not have just as much a right to take the game in the direction they want as you? How is it wrong to want to play EVE as a solo pilot? Isn't it entirely possible for one person to spend half of there EVE career playing solo and isolated and the rest as an "Elitist PVPer" once they reach a certain point? Should the people who do this not be given the chance to do so because they do not meet the criteria you have laid out here and therefore should be deemed hazardous to the health and integrity of EVE's future? I understand the points you have made but you fail to take into account, EVE needs both the solo/isolated pilots and the PVPers to be EVE, without one side of the coin EVE would get boring fast, and would no longer be a sandbox, and ultimately is that not the point of EVE? To play as you want, when you want and how you want? QFT Syn Callibri Mistress of the Blood Pact "Naut-elghinyrr" of Vulkor-Khaine
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Sol Mahon So the differentiation between "Carebear" and "Elitist PVPer" is shooting at someone else? Do you believe unloading all barrels at the nearest target makes a "Carebear" an "Elitist PVPer"? No. Interacting with someone else. This requires communication and a shared domain. Not multi boxing basement dwellers whoring high sec missions to buy more accounts to further undermine the entire principle of emergence and interactivity that is supposedly EVE Online. Quote: Where do I if I spend all my time ignoring everyone else and then one day I decide to target and subsequently destroy someone else? Do I fit into one of your thinly veiled categorizations then? No. We call that Finding Emo. In that one exquisite moment of epiphany and subsequent act of virtual insurrection you achieved salvation. You attained Nirvana. Welcome. Brother. Truly. Up to that point you were mistaken in your beliefs. You probably thought that was real self esteem you were nurturing. Real success you were whoring. Now you can know kung fu! The path to enlightenment .. karmic revelations .. you are not alone! Quote: In addition who are you to say that EVE should be taken in any direction and how are your views and opinions better or equal to that of the "Anti-Bears" views and opinions? Those who have the will, fight it out and determine amongst themselves who gets what. Those who refuse to compete deserve contempt at best. They should categorically never be given a voice. Might is right. This is EVE. Wrong MMO. Equality? Pfft. EVE is a meritocracy. Or was. Where is the merit in cowering behind your logidomi alt in ded space? What respect do you command doing that? How does your inherent lack of a spine impact on the rest of us? If not at all: good stuff. Keep it up. Enjoy your 'sandbox'. If, as we are seeing, it has a big effect on us, you need to be addressed. With red ink. And underlined. Quote: How is it wrong to want to play EVE as a solo pilot? Isn't it entirely possible for one person to spend half of there EVE career playing solo and isolated and the rest as an "Elitist PVPer" once they reach a certain point? Should the people who do this not be given the chance to do so because they do not meet the criteria you have laid out here and therefore should be deemed hazardous to the health and integrity of EVE's future? I started to answer this but my gag response forced me away from my computer .. I will say this tho: The opposite of an Anti-Bear is not an "Elitist PVPer". Yet you presume to lecture on the subejct of generalisations and .. gah .. polarization? Tut. Tut! Quote: I understand the points you have made but you fail to take into account, EVE needs both the solo/isolated pilots and the PVPers to be EVE, without one side of the coin EVE would get boring fast, and would no longer be a sandbox, and ultimately is that not the point of EVE? To play as you want, when you want and how you want? I don't think you do. A lot of what I said was just me having a rant. However you do not and can not ever feasibly convince me that such baise-moi 'real' world concepts as right, wrong, fairness and equality have a place in EVE Online. There are only those who do, those who try to do and those who, lamentably and to the detriment of the entire experience, for everyone else, refuse to do. Refuse to entertain the concept of doing. Reject it out of hand. Snub it. Then, perversely, vocally, demand their digital right to ignore everyone else in their own space-box. Unmolested. That's some warped ass logic if I do say so myself ..
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:11:00 - [53] I'm not even going to bother with this I don't think.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Sol Mahon I'm not even going to bother with this I don't think. No change there then.
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Aiwha People like to call us 0.0 fighters "elitists" or snobby, lording ourselves over the rest of EVE. Which we do. But then I see all these threads with horrible disdain for "highsec carebears". I want you, YES YOU, to stop for a moment, and look at your ship and equipment. Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. They do jobs that we refuse to do because in some weird way they enjoy it, just so we can go out and get them blown up. So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. (yaaar, but in lowsec/nullsec ye be pvp'ing even if your in the hulk ) Most allainces build their own ships and mods and carebears don't come into it at anypoint other than as someone to sell the officer mods to.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Like it or not EVE has a culture. It has a character and it has a context. Anti-bears are a parasitic infection from dance-emote hell. Nobody knows how they got here or which dirty fecker carried them in on the soles of his shoes. But they are here. And they are breeding. They are obscene. They are unholy. They bleed and undermine and eventually distort the game design direction. They harm EVE by making it more profitable in ways that categorically contradict the core principles of EVE sub-culture. So we quite understandably want them shaved, bathed and humanely euthanaised. Before they effectively divide, through sheer numbers, New Eden's diminishing game space any further with the them and 'us' crap sandwich. You're one of those, eh. "Carebears are the cancer of Eve", while the elitist PVPers are nothin' but goodness. Carebears are playing the game wrong, while you are playing it right. I get it :P. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:31:00 - [57] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Like it or not EVE has a culture. It has a character and it has a context. Anti-bears are a parasitic infection from dance-emote hell. Nobody knows how they got here or which dirty fecker carried them in on the soles of his shoes. But they are here. And they are breeding. They are obscene. They are unholy. They bleed and undermine and eventually distort the game design direction. They harm EVE by making it more profitable in ways that categorically contradict the core principles of EVE sub-culture. So we quite understandably want them shaved, bathed and humanely euthanaised. Before they effectively divide, through sheer numbers, New Eden's diminishing game space any further with the them and 'us' crap sandwich. You're one of those, eh. "Carebears are the cancer of Eve", while the elitist PVPers are nothin' but goodness. Carebears are playing the game wrong, while you are playing it right. I get it :P. Nah just another over caffeinated cracker with too much time on his hands .. Take nothing I said as representive of EVE, my sincere opinion or indeed truth. Find your own chuffing truth I say! Leave mine alone. BTW @ Sol Mahon I didn't mean to give you the rolly-eyes. Wasn't being sarcastic. A knowing, inclusive, back slapping smile should have sufficed. But blow me if I'm not prone to being a bit *****y. Nothing personal. I'm sure you've had more fun pruning your bonzai tree than I have ever had running away from a steady job.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:37:00 - [58] Seems like the carebear label is a fine line to walk. I'm an industrialist/mission runner that lives in high sec currently. I've been in 0.0 alliances in the past, but I found I didn't really enjoy that lifestyle...too many requirements to be online at certain times. I do some exploration and wormholes when I have the time. I do not avoid lowsec space, though I will use a blockade runner when I haul goods through there. I play the market a bit too. My goal in EvE right now is to make lots of ISK through my various endeavours. I'm I a carebear?
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:50:00 - [59] BTW @ Sol Mahon I didn't mean to give you the rolly-eyes. Wasn't being sarcastic. A knowing, inclusive, back slapping smile should have sufficed. But blow me if I'm not prone to being a bit *****y. Nothing personal. I'm sure you've had more fun pruning your bonzai tree than I have ever had running away from a steady job. After post 51, I find anything you type to be rather deluded, as I'm sure most others who attempted to read it also did, so I harbor no resentment, but I appreciate the sentiment here, so thank you. Unfortunately my Bonzai tree died as I only cared for half of it.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Sol Mahon BTW @ Sol Mahon I didn't mean to give you the rolly-eyes. Wasn't being sarcastic. A knowing, inclusive, back slapping smile should have sufficed. But blow me if I'm not prone to being a bit *****y. Nothing personal. I'm sure you've had more fun pruning your bonzai tree than I have ever had running away from a steady job. After post 51, I find anything you type to be rather deluded, as I'm sure most others who attempted to read it also did, so I harbor no resentment, but I appreciate the sentiment here, so thank you. Unfortunately my Bonzai tree died as I only cared for half of it. Very magnanimous of you.

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