Originally by: Vile rat

---

Anybody who thinks this was some master plan and not just a change of heart once people poked fun is a sucka.

---

Originally by: Musical Fist

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Anybody who thinks this was some master plan and not just a change of heart once people poked fun is a sucka.

---

The chat logs didnt make much sense but thanks for oozing bitter jealousy

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Originally by: Musical Fist

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Anybody who thinks this was some master plan and not just a change of heart once people poked fun is a sucka.

---

The chat logs didnt make much sense but thanks for oozing bitter jealousy

---

What exactly am I supposed to be jealous of?

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

All those who think we got scammed, obviously didnt read my post in the first place. You cant be scammed when you expect to get scammed. Our goal is to destroy Atlas, not get their small tributes. We will do what we came for and we will wipe them off the face of the map.

That is all, believe what you want to believe, troll and be trolled for them. But the results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

All those who think we got scammed, obviously didnt read my post in the first place. You cant be scammed when you expect to get scammed. Our goal is to destroy Atlas, not get their small tributes. We will do what we came for and we will wipe them off the face of the map.

That is all, believe what you want to believe, troll and be trolled for them. But the results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

...We will do what we came for and we will wipe them off the face of the map.

...the results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Originally by: Snot Shot

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

Stuff

Stuff

---

You knew Atlas was going to leave stretch marks around your mouth but you did it anyways?...

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

They still losing all their space right?

---

Originally by: Metal Dude

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

...We will do what we came for and we will wipe them off the face of the map.

...the results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Ahhh, sweet victory. Wiped PL off the face of the map. The results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Originally by: Stygian Knight

---

Originally by: Metal Dude

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

...We will do what we came for and we will wipe them off the face of the map.

...the results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Ahhh, sweet victory. Wiped PL off the face of the map. The results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

you mad bro ?

---

Originally by: Metal Dude

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

...We will do what we came for and we will wipe them off the face of the map.

...the results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Ahhh, sweet victory. Wiped PL off the face of the map. The results are results, history is history, Eve is Eve.

---

Originally by: JenDen

---

I reckon he seriously believes them atlas folks will be as capable at crippling other alliances after being wiped of the map as PL is

---

Originally by: Mauryce

---

shame on goggle traductor)

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

All those who think we got scammed, obviously didnt read my post in the first place. You cant be scammed when you expect to get scammed.

---

Originally by: Omeega

---

I still don't get where we got scammed, I got another Avatar, nync got another Erebus out of this :(

---

Originally by: Elendar

---

The result of this deal was that Atlas as an alliance fell apart, infighting started, corps left, directors backstabbed each other and there was much excellent ****

Letting individuals who will mostly no longer be associated with Atlas get assets out was well worth it for the overall effect.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Elendar

---

The result of this deal was that Atlas as an alliance fell apart, infighting started, corps left, directors backstabbed each other and there was much excellent ****

Letting individuals who will mostly no longer be associated with Atlas get assets out was well worth it for the overall effect.

---

Now that's true, it was just the above bending the truth I was objecting to.

However our defeat came from the hands of PL and their spies that made internal discussions impossible to have with all facts on table. Corps that left in rage, and allies that turned on us, did it on the presumtion that we sold ourself out - which we didn't, we just bought time - but we couldnt reveal this due to the spies in our leadership.

So, any former corp and allie that reads this now when it's to late can know that all your anger was on facts that were not facts, but the real one couldn't be revealed at the time that was. Especially to AAA I'd like to inform you that the remaining corps in Atlas has refused to lift our guns to you when you shot at our JB-network, and also refused the PL offer to hotdrop you with their supercap-fleet - since we still knew who our real enemy was and didn't wanna take side with them agains a long time ally.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Omeega

---

I still don't get where we got scammed, I got another Avatar, nync got another Erebus out of this :(

---

Is this the propaganda that will save your face? Fact is you got no ships from Atlas and we didn't even have any giant mushroom in cooking.

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Anybody who thinks this was some master plan and not just a change of heart once people poked fun is a sucka.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Elendar

---

The result of this deal was that Atlas as an alliance fell apart, infighting started, corps left, directors backstabbed each other and there was much excellent ****

Letting individuals who will mostly no longer be associated with Atlas get assets out was well worth it for the overall effect.

---

Now that's true, it was just the above bending the truth I was objecting to.

However our defeat came from the hands of PL and their spies that made internal discussions impossible to have with all facts on table. Corps that left in rage, and allies that turned on us, did it on the presumtion that we sold ourself out - which we didn't, we just bought time - but we couldnt reveal this due to the spies in our leadership.

So, any former corp and allie that reads this now when it's to late can know that all your anger was on facts that were not facts, but the real one couldn't be revealed at the time that was. Especially to AAA I'd like to inform you that the remaining corps in Atlas has refused to lift our guns to you when you shot at our JB-network, and also refused the PL offer to hotdrop you with their supercap-fleet - since we still knew who our real enemy was and didn't wanna take side with them agains a long time ally.

---

Awesome!

So Bobby was right, the whole thing was just to stall for time so a handful of people could save their precious supercaps in build, the fact some grunts could also move their own personal stuff was nothing more than a happy coincidence.

Suddenly I see clearly why Atlas disintegrated so quickly. Good thing you saved those supercaps you were building, now you can defend your... oh wait...

---

Originally by: Omeega

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Omeega

---

I still don't get where we got scammed, I got another Avatar, nync got another Erebus out of this :(

---

Is this the propaganda that will save your face? Fact is you got no ships from Atlas and we didn't even have any giant mushroom in cooking.

---

My face don't need saving, thank you for concern.
I'm prolly sure we stole those titans from PL then!

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

No, Bobby wasn't right and you continue the same mantra that all those misinformed has shared for a long while since you don't understand what I'm saying (the others didn't know and couldn't know).

Since this is already over I choose to speak open, and since I've been one of the few (about a handfull) that been informed of all plans the whole time and probably the most active of us I can share some light to stuff even our own members just speculate about, and often from wrong assumptions to the wrong conclusions.

The plan was to get time to evacuate stuff for members, corp and alliance - the only thing we had to [were willing to] bargin with was supercaps that was already to be concerned as dead for us. We had no alternative to not take the deal since we couldn't depend on our allies - the very night we lost our main system -A- didn't wanna come to help, but instead killed of the Initiative gang that were on their way to help. With that kind of allies we couldn't really hope to solve this without a deal, especially since this allies also had their fair share of internal problems.

Since we knew Atlas was in a bad state already before the invasion began, and we knew the risk was we'd loose all, even the alliance as a whole - our concern was to get each corp back to empire as strong as possible. A corp where all members had lost most their assets in a former space would be poor and demoralized - and the fact that our alliance peaked in online members after we got the deal pretty much proves we did the right thing for the members/corps.

Many have misunderstood the intentions about the deal, and alot of emo-trolling had happen due to it, even by members who reaped all benefits from it. The deal was meant to give us those benefits, and the emoing has been over things that we didn't intend to give away as many thought since they had no clue.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

This makes no sense whatsoever.

You had given up those supercaps for dead and you put a deposit of 65 billion down so you could later backtrack on the deal?

Wouldn't it have been just easier to go along with the deal in the firstplace and not risk the deposit (which you got back anyway, but you couldn't have anticipated that)?

But then you're just making stuff up as you go along aren't you? The only real interest was a handful of people trying to get their supercaps out at the expense of everything else - exactly what Bobby said when he raged.

Are you going to use these supercaps to defend your...oh...yeah...nevermind.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

and also refused the PL offer to hotdrop you with their supercap-fleet - since we still knew who our real enemy was and didn't wanna take side with them agains a long time ally.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

I can't say I expected you to understand, but on the other hand I didn't explain all parts and don't have the possibility to use cute pictures and diagrams that make it easier for you to follow since you seems so narrowminded you just can't think outside the box you already locked yourself into. From what I've seen your leaders in PL at least understood the risks of the plan I've tried to explain for you (and others), and they did it on forehand (that you don't even get when it's typed in black and white), and also warned XiX about this risk. Perhaps you can ask them how the plan works if you have problem understanding what I say. And if you were litteral your own spies has revealed that this isn't something we make up as we go, and that's in the start of this thread that you master so well.

Anyway, the 65B collateral (that might sound as much to you, but isn't much) was possible to get back in different ways, but it was certain we'd get supercaps out that by far would exceed that amount in pure mineral-value - so we took no risks with the deal - as I tried to explain we had nothing to loose. Besides that the supercaps was to be concidered dead IF we DIDN'T get a deal, and the collaterals was ONLY if we got a deal - a mystery how you find thise complicated accually. The only risk anyone took was XiX with friends that made a 130B collateral with no assets to save from it.

As what Bobby concerns he has been far more out than in concerning this whole matter and had no clue what so ever what happened behind the curtain in Atlas leadership. He just fell into the emo-trolling with all other missinformed that wouldn't surprise me can have been started and/or fueled by enemy propaganda.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Corps that left in rage, and allies that turned on us, did it on the presumtion that we sold ourself out - which we didn't, we just bought time - but we couldnt reveal this due to the spies in our leadership.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Edited by: Captain Thunk on 04/09/2010 18:38:30
No, what I mean is that you're trying to spin this as you never sold the alliance out. You talk about not being able to inform people because of PL spies at Atlas leadership level as an excuse to cover up why 8 or so guys who happened to have supercaps in build conspired to sell out the entire alliance and everything you've ever worked for to save those supercaps. I won't ask why you want to save them rather than the alliance, you clearly dont use supers in battle, but thats not really my business. Speaks volumes that the alliance leader at the time, Bobby, wasn't allowed in on this masterplan.

By trying to spin this as atlas never selling out, you somehow actually make yourselves look worse. The alliance is still dead, although now it seems you had more of a hand in that than was previously known, all thats different is a few guys have a supercap whereas they didn't have them before. In balance you're still down on supercaps considering those you lost at the end of the 'fighting'

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Well, I've already explained stuff about this that it seems you missed or don't (or can't?) understand. Talk to your leaders, they probably can explain this better to you since it would be likelly you'd listen to them instead of sitting in your box of trolling trying not to understand.

The answer to this was that Atlas was in a BAD shape (leadership-wise) already BEFORE the invasion started - any corp can verify this. Due to this we had little to no hope saving the alliance in the other side of this exodus, so we did what we thought was best for the corps being a part of this alliance - and that included not getting them poor and demoralized back to empire, but instead salvage what we could to make it easier to restart for all.

When it comes to Bobby he had already officially resigned as an alliance leader, and your trolling reaches new levels of speaking without knowing the facts. Your hangup to the supercaps role in the matter only proves you are more stuck to them than we are - to you they were everything - to us it was dead stuff revived as bargain assets.

The one making something look worse in this thread should probably be yourself in your black belt mastery of problem to understand whats happened here. And btw, of those selected ones that knew the full plan from the beginning the larger percentage didn't have any own supers in production.

That Atlas goes out of this as loosers I don't question at all, we do on all levels. But that was to the competense of PL's leadership and it's spies as far as I see it, in relation to Atlas with allies internal problems. Had that competens from PL's side been close to your competense in this thread we had whipped your ass badly and perhaps straighten ourself out instead of failcascading. But we were attacked at the worst possible time to us, and pretty much everything that could go wrond went wrong. From the moment we got the deal however, all was already lost for Atlas and we salvaged ALOT with it for all members of all corps.

---

Originally by: Lady Isabell

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

and also refused the PL offer to hotdrop you with their supercap-fleet - since we still knew who our real enemy was and didn't wanna take side with them agains a long time ally.

---

Bloody hell, PL obviously contacted the wrong person. I was screaming bloody murder and wanted to kill those -A- Supercarriers, hell I even contacted a PL pilot but obviously he was the wrong person to contact! Next time don't be such a ****ing douche canoe ***** when our "long time ally" is shooting our JBs, SBUing our systems, killing our Allies who are on their way to help and as an added bonus gank our evacuation fleets leaving for Empire.

Amazing that -A- managed to form a decent fleet with Supercarriers and support when they planed to hit their former Allies but when we asked for help they failed to show up!

Jesus H. ****ing Christ! Someone google the picture with Jesus F'ing Christ so I can link it.

---

Originally by: Lady Isabell

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

and also refused the PL offer to hotdrop you with their supercap-fleet - since we still knew who our real enemy was and didn't wanna take side with them agains a long time ally.

---

Bloody hell, PL obviously contacted the wrong person. I was screaming bloody murder and wanted to kill those -A- Supercarriers, hell I even contacted a PL pilot but obviously he was the wrong person to contact! Next time don't be such a ****ing douche canoe ***** when our "long time ally" is shooting our JBs, SBUing our systems, killing our Allies who are on their way to help and as an added bonus gank our evacuation fleets leaving for Empire.

Amazing that -A- managed to form a decent fleet with Supercarriers and support when they planed to hit their former Allies but when we asked for help they failed to show up!

Jesus H. ****ing Christ! Someone google the picture with Jesus F'ing Christ so I can link it.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Well, I've already explained stuff about this that it seems you missed or don't (or can't?) understand. Talk to your leaders, they probably can explain this better to you since it would be likelly you'd listen to them instead of sitting in your box of trolling trying not to understand.

The answer to this was that Atlas was in a BAD shape (leadership-wise) already BEFORE the invasion started - any corp can verify this. Due to this we had little to no hope saving the alliance in the other side of this exodus, so we did what we thought was best for the corps being a part of this alliance - and that included not getting them poor and demoralized back to empire, but instead salvage what we could to make it easier to restart for all.

When it comes to Bobby he had already officially resigned as an alliance leader, and your trolling reaches new levels of speaking without knowing the facts. Your hangup to the supercaps role in the matter only proves you are more stuck to them than we are - to you they were everything - to us it was dead stuff revived as bargain assets.

The one making something look worse in this thread should probably be yourself in your black belt mastery of problem to understand whats happened here. And btw, of those selected ones that knew the full plan from the beginning the larger percentage didn't have any own supers in production.

That Atlas goes out of this as loosers I don't question at all, we do on all levels. But that was to the competense of PL's leadership and it's spies as far as I see it, in relation to Atlas with allies internal problems. Had that competens from PL's side been close to your competense in this thread we had whipped your ass badly and perhaps straighten ourself out instead of failcascading. But we were attacked at the worst possible time to us, and pretty much everything that could go wrond went wrong. From the moment we got the deal however, all was already lost for Atlas and we salvaged ALOT with it for all members of all corps.

---

I asked my leaders but they won't tell me anything for fear of Atlas spies waiting to pounce while we least expect it.

So what you're saying is you could go with one of 2 choices:

1) sell out and go along with the deal
2) look like you've sold out and go along with the deal and save a few supercaps for high profile members who want to salvage something out of the hardwork they've been extracting out of the members for the last few years. But it's ok, you didn't actually sell out, so can -A- please stop shooting you and ex-corps are welcome back as soon as they've stopped choking on your spin.

Glad we've got that straightened out. Tell me again what it is Atlas uses Supercaps for?

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Wait. So now you're saying it's -A-'s fault that you were unable to do what happened to you in 0-w first (and you did intend to do exactly that. Wait till final timer and then just fill the system up with trash so nothing could jump in)

Dude, you're quite unbelievable. Please continue...

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Edited by: ByFeve on 04/09/2010 20:21:22

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Wait. So now you're saying it's -A-'s fault that you were unable to do what happened to you in 0-w first (and you did intend to do exactly that. Wait till final timer and then just fill the system up with trash so nothing could jump in)

Dude, you're quite unbelievable. Please continue...

---

What I said was that -A- has a part in our downfall (though they seems to not realize that when they accused us of not fighting enough when we started to discuss 'the deal'), and both Atlas AND our allies was in a bad situation when this happened. But without cooperation at the right time we would have no chance, and this due to game-mechanics as we all know. EVE is a broken product when it comes to large scale nullsec warfare, hence the one filling the system first wins. If this hadn't been the case there would have been fights days before 0-W fell - but none on our side would have won on being stupid and do a move that went totally against all we know about this game.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

no really, you were unable to do what happened to you, because the russians knew in advance and simply filled the system first. Blame CCP all you want, point is you're whistling and shuffling your feet when you're taking advantage of it.

I think you place too much blame on -A-, it's not actually their job to hold your hand, tell you how to fight and look after you - unless you were their pet, in which case, yes you'd be right. Instead the blame rests soley with the comdedy clunk machine that is Atlas leadership. I mean, for a start, you appear to be a part of it. I don't know who else is Atlas Leadership but I have a strong suspicion they're a bunch of Bow-Wows too

---

Originally by: Sir Zzang

---

I have a question for you then. IF you knew the deal with XIX was fake from the beggining (according to info from your posts) WHY you didn't told -A- about it and made it clear?

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

1) sell out and go along with the deal
2) look like you've sold out and go along with the deal and save a few supercaps for high profile members who want to salvage something out of the hardwork they've been extracting out of the members for the last few years. But it's ok, you didn't actually sell out, so can -A- please stop shooting you and ex-corps are welcome back as soon as they've stopped choking on your spin.

---

Originally by: Sir Zzang

---

Oh yeah, i never thought i'm going to see Atlas (ok. a member of Atlas Alliance to be precise) blaming -A- for not deplyoing proper forces to defend your space.

I will recall you a situation when we were staging in 77s POS waiting 2 ****ing hours for a WORD from you leadership about engaging in 0-W and you know what? We were told to leave after Bobby emoragequit and logged off so don't spread a f*****g bulls**t about -A- not coming and killing your allies while you needed them in 0-W,C-J or whatever.

---

Originally by: Sir Zzang

---

Second thing is about your ~emotions~ in -A- resetting you and shooting your JFs,Fs, etc on JBs placed in Catch.

I have a question for you then. IF you knew the deal with XIX was fake from the beggining (according to info from your posts) WHY you didn't told -A- about it and made it clear? We were coming every f*****g time we can, CTAs to save C-J #1 #2 #3 #4 and you dare to say it's -A- fault that Atlas died?

Possible answers are two. I will not write them, try answering yourself and have a nice day.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

You were on the verge of losing 2 of your most active corps, and the leadership reinvented you guys as a supposed 'mercenary' alliance to prevent you failcascading. That's fine.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Oh dear, Thunky, you really don't understand the politics behind this one bit, do you sweetheart?

I actually don't begrudge the direction that PL has taken. It's probably the direction that any other PVP alliance that was kicked out of all of its home systems would be forced to take. You were on the verge of losing 2 of your most active corps, and the leadership reinvented you guys as a supposed 'mercenary' alliance to prevent you failcascading. That's fine.

I love how you're now trying to redefine history about the surrender terms that your own leaders personally recommended. The second the rest of us saw the gaping hole in your supposed 'surrender contract' we were ****ing ourselves laughing. Right up until the last minute we assumed you'd suddently realise what ridiculous terms you'd proposed, and get smart. We overestimated you.

Watching you scrambling around now, claiming that you knew all along that Atlas were going to make you look like utter boobies is pretty amusing TBH.

Any alliance daft enought to take advice from PL about the 'right way to manage region loss' deserves whatever they got.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

I don't understand politics at all, no. It's pretty confusing...

I must have missed something...

As far as clever masterplans go, I still don't think this ones that brilliant. It's done nothing to help Atlas as an alliance and everything to help a select few.

I don't think this late revelation is going to restore confidence in the administration of Atlas alliance.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

No, you don't understand - and yes you are confused - and yes you missed alot of things and are still in your little box of your first simplfied trolling-propaganda-misunderstanding.

Our plan you still prove that you not understand at all, and the thing that's not brilliant then is you.

We concidered Atlas to risk being dead even before we took the deal, and we did the deal that helped every member get their assets out. That you fail to realize this just shows exactly how slow you are in the more northern regions of your physical appearance.

The revalation is not late, your own spies revealed it to your side almost a week ago - and you still don't get that from the thread you fail so hard in. It seems that PL successes has nothing to do with the cleverness of their grunts at least.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Edited by: Captain Thunk on 04/09/2010 22:40:39

Originally by: ByFeve

---

No, you don't understand - and yes you are confused - and yes you missed alot of things and are still in your little box of your first simplfied trolling-propaganda-misunderstanding.

Our plan you still prove that you not understand at all, and the thing that's not brilliant then is you.

We concidered Atlas to risk being dead even before we took the deal, and we did the deal that helped every member get their assets out. That you fail to realize this just shows exactly how slow you are in the more northern regions of your physical appearance.

The revalation is not late, your own spies revealed it to your side almost a week ago - and you still don't get that from the thread you fail so hard in. It seems that PL successes has nothing to do with the cleverness of their grunts at least.

---

So Bobby was right then? You were just doing the deal for the supercap producers, not the members.

Crikey, glad we finally got that sorted. It's been a long road, but I feel this has brought us closer together.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

wait...I think I understand what you're saying now.

The plan was to make half the alliance leave (and save supercaps for your mates).

Thats how you were doing the members a favour, by saving them from Atlas itself.

I think I'm getting the hang of this out-of-the-box thinking lark now.

---

Originally by: Ceirah

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

wait...I think I understand what you're saying now.

The plan was to make half the alliance leave (and save supercaps for your mates).

Thats how you were doing the members a favour, by saving them from Atlas itself.

I think I'm getting the hang of this out-of-the-box thinking lark now.

---

You should stop ignoring the fact that they left Atlas after they had evac-ed all their assets from 0-w/Omist. So what I get is that the plan was not to keep the alliance together but to get as much stuff as possible out of the 0.0 to safe.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Ceirah

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

wait...I think I understand what you're saying now.

The plan was to make half the alliance leave (and save supercaps for your mates).

Thats how you were doing the members a favour, by saving them from Atlas itself.

I think I'm getting the hang of this out-of-the-box thinking lark now.

---

You should stop ignoring the fact that they left Atlas after they had evac-ed all their assets from 0-w/Omist. So what I get is that the plan was not to keep the alliance together but to get as much stuff as possible out of the 0.0 to safe.

---

The plan was to save as much as possible, and especially to get each corp as "non poor" and demoralized to empire as possible. We were always aware that our status was weak, and the risk for many, most or all corps going their own way afterwards were big. But since no alliance is stronger than it's corps, and no corp stronger than it's members - we thought that if we would reform on the other side of Omist the corps should have as much as possible to work with. And as both you and I probably know the alliance members onlined spiked after we got the deal, so all members started to furfill this goal, and most are probably all done already.

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Ceirah

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

wait...I think I understand what you're saying now.

The plan was to make half the alliance leave (and save supercaps for your mates).

Thats how you were doing the members a favour, by saving them from Atlas itself.

I think I'm getting the hang of this out-of-the-box thinking lark now.

---

You should stop ignoring the fact that they left Atlas after they had evac-ed all their assets from 0-w/Omist. So what I get is that the plan was not to keep the alliance together but to get as much stuff as possible out of the 0.0 to safe.

---

The plan was to save as much as possible, and especially to get each corp as "non poor" and demoralized to empire as possible. We were always aware that our status was weak, and the risk for many, most or all corps going their own way afterwards were big. But since no alliance is stronger than it's corps, and no corp stronger than it's members - we thought that if we would reform on the other side of Omist the corps should have as much as possible to work with. And as both you and I probably know the alliance members onlined spiked after we got the deal, so all members started to furfill this goal, and most are probably all done already.

---

Yes there was a lot of movement in and out of 0-w once you were blue. But I genuinely believe you've hindered your chances of the 'reformation on the other side of Omist' as a result of this. Though if you do have spies at an alliance leadership level, as you believe, then your future is bleak regardless.

Looking forward to meeting the supercap pilots.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Yes, trillions of isk-worth of assets have been salvaged due to this, and from many many more stations than 0-W.

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

You might be right that for some corps the reformation might be hindered by this deal

---

Originally by: Captain Thunk

---

I think members willing to fight > trapped assets

Ultimately you saved one at the expense of the other. With nearly half of its membership gone, possibly the most important half, I'm not expecting to see Atlas around much myself. Nor do I particularly expect your ex-allies to be in a rush to make-up either. Tactically your position is as bad as ever which makes you ineffectual and you can't be trusted as you will say and do whatever is required to save your super capitals members assets even if that means leaving your closest allies in the dark. But I'm often wrong as I don't *get* eve politics so best of luck.

---

Originally by: Vogue

---

Edited by: Vogue on 04/09/2010 22:15:04
For general edification read this: Schismogenesis

Systems of holding back are also a form of schismogenesis. They are defined as "mutually aggregating spirals which lead people to hold back contributions they could make because others hold back contributions they could make."[6] . In Systems intelligence literature it is held that human interaction has a tendency to fall into such systems unless conscious effort is made to counter this tendency. For example, although most managers would want to give support to their team and most team members would like to receive such support many times support does not result. This is because both parties might feel that the other party is not giving enough and thus they will themselves hold back what they in the best case could give. It has been suggested that systems of holding back are "the single most important key to life-decreasing, reciprocity-trivializing and vitality-downgrading mechanisms in human life."

waddless off to find more alcohol

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

PL will do what we paid them for and we will continue to pay them to wipe them off the face of the map.

---

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

---

This thread has a LOT of words in it, in fact, I'm calling it off boys, this is NOT a wiDOT thread.

Seriously though, if this was all planned at the atlas bbq then why did all the core corps leave?

---

Originally by: CCP Capslock

---

OH GOD THE TESTING

---

Originally by: Sith8

---

Gimme an Avatar Omee you cheap skank.

Confirming that ATLAS demise is all AAA fault, in particular mine.... soz bro ;(

---

Originally by: Darek Castigatus

---

TL:DR

Both sides doing a lot of talking out of their intergalactic arses and nobody will ever know for certain the motives behind ATLAS doing any of the things they did.

amirite?

---

Originally by: Koronos

---

Originally by: Vogue

---

Edited by: Vogue on 04/09/2010 22:15:04
For general edification read this: Schismogenesis

Systems of holding back are also a form of schismogenesis. They are defined as "mutually aggregating spirals which lead people to hold back contributions they could make because others hold back contributions they could make."[6] . In Systems intelligence literature it is held that human interaction has a tendency to fall into such systems unless conscious effort is made to counter this tendency. For example, although most managers would want to give support to their team and most team members would like to receive such support many times support does not result. This is because both parties might feel that the other party is not giving enough and thus they will themselves hold back what they in the best case could give. It has been suggested that systems of holding back are "the single most important key to life-decreasing, reciprocity-trivializing and vitality-downgrading mechanisms in human life."

waddless off to find more alcohol

---

That's a pretty badass quote. And while it's not surprising that a dude with abandonment issues would develop a theory like that, it has a lot of merit, to a point. I'd say the reverse also holds a lot of merit, particularly when applied to Internet Spaceships, which is why there's this catch-22 that the charismatic/fun to fly with/motivating leader that can be so valuable in building an alliance naturally also is the cause/catalyst/scapegoat for the failure cascade when they are absent/emoragequit/burn out.

---

Originally by: Nostradamous

---

I have no idea whats going on here.....and i'm defiantly too lazy to reading all that!

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Drivel

---

Originally by: Zdrahonul Gallentor

---

Well...
Allow me to throw in some statements. I'm just doing this because it's late here and I am waiting for some stuff to finish compiling so... boredom is the reason for posting.
It all started a while ago when HTA was holding some systems in Insmother, specifically TTP, XO and LVL. Pandemic Legion invaded TTP first to establish a bidge head into Insmother. HTA Alliance, back then having almost 3000 members, was not prepared for the invasion, let alone having the same level of organization Pandemic Legion had. HTA did their best to fight back, but they couldn't resist PL. I was in HTA at the time, PL were reds but I respected their ability to fight. Not their smacktalk but that's another story :)
Anyway, HTA asked for help from Atlas. Atlas came once to put a PL POS in Reinforced mode, then came one more time to defend a Scalding Pass station but left as soon as the station came out of Reinforced.
At that very moment, the HTA leader took a very bad decision: attempt to take the station when PL activity had peaked only 7 jumps away. Of course PL came and took the station, with Atlas being nowhere at that moment.
Why this whole story?
Because in my opinion, Atlas leadership have shown to prefer an arrogant approach to both pet alliances (yes, HTA was one of them) and their own member corps. I would guess the same applies to attitude towards other alliances, both friends or foes. Look where that attitude took them...
I don't really care about the outcome of this whole story, but I can say that Atlas kind of deserved it.
Good luck, Atlas, good luck, PL, good luck XIX and RA, wherever your (seemingly crossing) paths will lead you.
After all, it's all a game, a very complex and interesting one. Even when stained by human presence :)

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Edited by: HarrietMiers on 05/09/2010 21:19:02

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Drivel

---

1. You are under a forum ban. You should follow it. (Thanks in advance.)

2. You should grow a set of balls and post with your main.

3. No one gives a flying **** about you, your twitter account, or your 5 year long white knighting of Bob/It, least of all them. Post with your IT main or gtfo.

Cheers.


Edit - 4. You can't edit in a sniper. Learn to post.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Edited by: HarrietMiers on 05/09/2010 21:19:02

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Drivel

---

1. You are under a forum ban. You should follow it. (Thanks in advance.)

2. You should grow a set of balls and post with your main.

3. No one gives a flying **** about you, your twitter account, or your 5 year long white knighting of Bob/It, least of all them. Post with your IT main or gtfo.

Cheers.


Edit - 4. You can't edit in a sniper. Learn to post.

---

Wow, you certainly know a lot more about me than I do about you.

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Edited by: HarrietMiers on 05/09/2010 22:03:11

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Edited by: HarrietMiers on 05/09/2010 21:19:02

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Drivel

---

1. You are under a forum ban. You should follow it. (Thanks in advance.)

2. You should grow a set of balls and post with your main.

3. No one gives a flying **** about you, your twitter account, or your 5 year long white knighting of Bob/It, least of all them. Post with your IT main or gtfo.

Cheers.


Edit - 4. You can't edit in a sniper. Learn to post.

---

Wow, you certainly know a lot more about me than I do about you.

---

Does it really matter who I am? (Edit: just to be clear, this is my main) My points stand. You are a bitter bitter little alt and have been for years. Why don't you man up and post with your main?

Until then you are no better than Snot Shot or Bismaru.

---

Originally by: Piper Halliwell

---

Originally by: Krutoj

---

PL will do what we paid them for and we will continue to pay them to wipe them off the face of the map.

---

There I fixed that for you bro. I never saw you or your crappy ****ing alliance there, so sod off, m'kay cupcake :)

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

Originally by: Zdrahonul Gallentor

---

Well...

It all started a while ago when HTA was holding some systems in Insmother, specifically TTP, XO and LVL. Pandemic Legion invaded TTP first to establish a bidge head into Insmother. HTA Alliance, back then having almost 3000 members, was not prepared for the invasion, let alone having the same level of organization Pandemic Legion had. HTA did their best to fight back, but they couldn't resist PL. I was in HTA at the time, PL were reds but I respected their ability to fight. Not their smacktalk but that's another story :)
Anyway, HTA asked for help from Atlas. Atlas came once to put a PL POS in Reinforced mode, then came one more time to defend a Scalding Pass station but left as soon as the station came out of Reinforced.
At that very moment, the HTA leader took a very bad decision: attempt to take the station when PL activity had peaked only 7 jumps away. Of course PL came and took the station, with Atlas being nowhere at that moment.
Why this whole story?
Because in my opinion, Atlas leadership have shown to prefer an arrogant approach to both pet alliances (yes, HTA was one of them) and their own member corps. I would guess the same applies to attitude towards other alliances, both friends or foes. Look where that attitude took them...
I don't really care about the outcome of this whole story, but I can say that Atlas kind of deserved it.
:)

---

Sadly about this matter I have to totally agree with you, and I'm sorry to say that Atlas was that way to our renters.

Bobby together with a bunch of the leaders that were more active/forward in leadership had an attitude about this game that good morale integrity had nothing to do with this game if you wanted to come somewhere, together with an attitude that renters were down the ladder and we didn't really care about their problems - at least not if we didn't risk to loose them (the income).

Myself and leaders from other corps never liked this, but sadly it's often this more "angry" people who are in charge so we with another point of view get little say in matters. The "we do what we want, we don't care" attitude might work fine in times when we got leaders that are active with visions and fights are won - but when the **** hits the fan I mean we reap what we have sow.

I'm certain Bobby and others would explain what happened different, and we never get any proofs here - but if we supported our renters more I'm certain they had done more to help us when needed, and could have been stronger at this point as well. That's the old law about reap what you sow to me.

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Probably.

I can tell you what I'm definitely right about though:

You are a spineless little BOB fanboi who is too scared to post with his main.

---

Originally by: Betty Boom

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Probably.

I can tell you what I'm definitely right about though:

You are a spineless little BOB fanboi who is too scared to post with his main.

---

Your char is 5 month old and you call someone, who is active here since years and well-know ... an alt.

Please share your wisdom with us and proof it, Miss Alt. Or better - Stop trolling!

---

Originally by: Rick Rothsar

---

All this thread needs is an Atlas supercap pilot RMT'ing out for a new ninja bike and then we'll have a truly legendary thread.

---

Originally by: Aeternus IV

---

Originally by: ByFeve

---

[...]an attitude that renters were down the ladder and we didn't really care about their problems [...]

---

[...]I don't recall a single time where Atlas sworked to help their renters when it did not threaten Atlas itself.[...]used their renters as meatshields.[...]

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Windy has been alt posting for years mindlessly cheering for bob, even when the T20 Scandal broke. Occasionally he is funny, but the fact that he hides behind an alt and is constantly bitter/**** posting every PL thread is pathetic and needed be pointed out.

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Took you over half a day to respond with a dog picture and a pretty blatant attempt at deflection?

Post with your IT main windy. You're just another Snot Shot.

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Edited by: HarrietMiers on 06/09/2010 22:25:09
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over your alt posting. You'll have to speak up.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=General+Windypops

Ship built for fighting?

Fighting what exactly, the forums? It's been 5 years. Post with your main.

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Still hiding behind an alt?

What's wrong windy? Scared?

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

Still hiding behind an alt?

What's wrong windy? Scared?

---

Wow. Your posts got dull fast.

---

Originally by: CARY

---

CARY.............LOL...................BATTLESTARS

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

]mpfh mpfh mpfh

---

Originally by: Gistatis Tribunus

---

Originally by: HarrietMiers

---

]mpfh mpfh mpfh

---

woah bro you're really angry, bro take a chill pill bro, it's just a video game bro.

---

Originally by: Grandfather Yarr

---

^^

FYI : Its Flying Dangerous Alliance (Technically)

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Edited by: General Windypops on 05/09/2010 20:21:35

Originally by: Nostradamous

---

I have no idea whats going on here.....and i'm defiantly too lazy to reading all that!

---

TBH Nosty it's worth a quick scan purely to chuckle at the supposedly *cough* neutral terribly scary mercenary alliance that is Pandemic Lunchbox having to desperately defend their 'employer' for their imbecility and provide them with a political figleaf. I hope they take on more *cough* contracts for russian speaking alliances so that we can watch them falling all over each other to explain to us why it was money well spent.

If PL keep getting this personally tangled up with the politics of their wars they're going to struggle to find any employers tbh.

Edit: Snypa!!!

---

Originally by: Orree

---

Not as long as they keep getting results and deal honestly with their employers. Those are paramount and I haven't seen much evidence that they are failing on either account.

---

Originally by: Zdrahonul Gallentor

---

Because in my opinion, Atlas leadership have shown to prefer an arrogant approach to both pet alliances (yes, HTA was one of them) and their own member corps. I would guess the same applies to attitude towards other alliances, both friends or foes. Look where that attitude took them...
I don't really care about the outcome of this whole story, but I can say that Atlas kind of deserved it.

---

Quote:

---

Renters were not allies

---

Originally by: Bryant21

---

Originally by: Zdrahonul Gallentor

---

I guess that really shows when they let HTA die. Renters were not allies, they were cannon fodder.

---

I used to be in a Atlas renter alliance aswell, but HTA were little more than cannon fodder regardless of how they were treated, they sucked. From epic losses agains, well, anyone they went up agaisnt with to the lolfits those morons actually fielded in fleet engagements, the only thing they seemed to be good at was carebearing. There were individual exeptions ofcourse, but when the vast majority have hteir heads stuck up their arses there is little those few could do.
----------


Try not to take life too seriously, noone gets out alive anyway.

Originally by: Bagehi

---

BiaXia, ruining jokes one post at a time.

---

Originally by: Karunel

---

Quote:

---

Renters were not allies

---

Well duh.

---

Originally by: Demitrios

---

Edited by: Demitrios on 28/11/2010 09:35:44
LONG LIVE BOBBY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT6IGU0-IX0

Also Necro ftw

---

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

---

And what is Atlas ?

---