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Why aren't there more people subscribing to EvE?

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Azshann	Posted - 2010.09.15 04:24:00 - [1] Edited by: Azshann on 15/09/2010 04:25:13 For a long time I had been searching for a game that could fulfill my desires. I found that game when I started playing EvE. I suspect that this game became more immerse than originally intended by the developers, this is of course a good thing. Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? Will DUST 514 possibly increase the EvE population?
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2010.09.15 04:57:00 - [2] Because more and more people are subscribing on a daily basis :P
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.09.15 05:02:00 - [3] Edited by: Serpents smile on 15/09/2010 05:03:32 It's not something all people tend to like. Flying around and having the chance to get shot for no reason, lose all your stuff which doesn't magically re-appear. One moment you're happily mining with a buddy in 0.5 the next moment you're dust. Live is a b*tch. If you don't mind the occasional hazard of losing your spaceship pixels, EVE may be something for you.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2010.09.15 06:23:00 - [4] Originally by: Azshann Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? Well, there are many reasons. One is that EVE is CHALLENGING (one way or another you are competing against other humans, even highsec mission runners). Even casual play (and I speak as a casual player) requires to overcome a steep learning curve (you all know that, don't you?). Many adults that I know, including some of the most intelligent people on the planet don't want to play an immersive game, but a relaxing game. EVE is clearly not for this kind of audience. Another reason is that many adults just don't like sci-fi. Another one is that some can't see themselves as ships, they want a human avatar (incarna should solve that). Originally by: Azshann Will DUST 514 possibly increase the EvE population? It will most likely increase the cash flow for CCP but I doubt it will increase EVE's population to a large extent; it's aimed to an audience that is not much interested in complex games, although i am pretty sure a good chunk of EVE's players will probably become loyal customers of DUST too...
Verrenici	Posted - 2010.09.15 06:31:00 - [5] Because EVE is hard and unforgiving, and the average gamer of today is a characterless, soulless creature who prefers the cheap and easy win over the challenging loss. Not that they will ever admit that; they'll tell you it's because it doesn't have orcs.
Zeba ForumWhoor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.15 06:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Azshann Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? Because maybe they got tired of this one no matter how engaging and complex for one that is a bit lighter on the work load but heavier on the fun factor? I'm currently enjoying the lotro f2p deal as my eve characters all keep skilling up afk. And no you can't have my stuff as I didnt 'quit'. ;p ZOMG!!!
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:22:00 - [7] Quote: Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? Nuff said.
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:26:00 - [8] Eve-Online has been steadily gaining subscribers for 5 years straight, and now sits at a very healthy 350,000 subscribers (of course keep in mind eve is very alt account-centric). http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png Once we finally get avatars and walking in stations, expect the subscriber count to explode. Lack of avatar is what keeps many people mmo fans away from eve.
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Verrenici Because EVE is hard and unforgiving, and the average gamer of today is a characterless, soulless creature who prefers the cheap and easy win over the challenging loss. Not that they will ever admit that; they'll tell you it's because it doesn't have orcs. This. It does require quite a bit of more timer per play session too though. Been in that boat myself, quiting for several months at a time because Anything in EVE requires longer play sessions. For example, I could log into WoW, do an instance or a battleground for 15-20 mins and finish it. In EVE you're easily busy for an hour or more on anything serious pvp related. ------
Zeba ForumWhoor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:31:00 - [10] Edited by: Zeba ForumWhoor on 15/09/2010 07:35:13 Originally by: mechtech Eve-Online has been steadily gaining subscribers for 5 years straight, and now sits at a very healthy 350,000 subscribers (of course keep in mind eve is very alt account-centric). http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png Once we finally get avatars and walking in stations, expect the subscriber count to explode. Lack of avatar is what keeps many people mmo fans away from eve. Tbh this is exactly what the game has needed so ccp can finally have a massive budget to pimp the game in ways they have been wanting to do since it was in beta. Think of this milestone as one of many they had to cross on the way from indie niche mmo to mainstream big budget mmo. A rather hard road I would think given the nature of the playerbase. Originally by: Guilliman R Originally by: Verrenici Because EVE is hard and unforgiving, and the average gamer of today is a characterless, soulless creature who prefers the cheap and easy win over the challenging loss. Not that they will ever admit that; they'll tell you it's because it doesn't have orcs. This. It does require quite a bit of more timer per play session too though. Been in that boat myself, quiting for several months at a time because Anything in EVE requires longer play sessions. For example, I could log into WoW, do an instance or a battleground for 15-20 mins and finish it. In EVE you're easily busy for an hour or more on anything serious pvp related. The problem with this is that the majority of this hour or more is the bog standard military 'hurry up and wait' syndrome. ie it takes 45 minutes of organizing for the 15 minutes of fun. Not saying this is generally a bad thing but there is something to be said for 'near' instant gratification in a game after all. ZOMG!!!
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:42:00 - [11] The problem CCP have, with aiming to expand the player base, is that Eve currently fills a niche game market. It fills that niche really well - so dont call me a hate ccp cause it's popular forum troll. Whilst expanding, CCP are in danger of losing that special eve niche and becoming another generic MMO. The sort that attract 100k new players in 3 months and then disapoint 95k of those 100k and then become financially insolvent. This problem is common in any business that aims to have rapid expansion, I hope CCP are doing cross industry networking with businesses that have successfully gone from being niche players to market heavy weights.
Jenny Cameron Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:43:00 - [12] Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 15/09/2010 07:45:42 Well, I've seen quite a number of people quit EVE, both new and old players. * a lot of new players don't like the slow skilltraining. Often they're hardcore players who spend a lot of time playing games and the fact that they can't grind xp to skill faster up is very frustrating to them. * a lot of old players miss some kind of endgame. When you can fly all ships and have been in numerous wars sometimes people get bored of it. * some PvE oriented players find the PvE content rather simple and not very inspiring. Missions mostly are very simple tank and gank, not really challenging or varied. * some PvP players get tired of waiting for something to do. Spending 4 hours waiting and roaming to find a target and sometimes not being able to find any get tedious. EVE doesn't have arena style PvP or practice grounds to jump into action quickly. * some RP players miss the customization options like painting your ship and seeing which weapons you have actually equiped. And also miss what incarna could bring: being an actual pilot and not being just a 2D picture. Well no game can cater everyone ... we can only do what the sandbox allows us to do. Originally by: mechtech Eve-Online has been steadily gaining subscribers for 5 years straight, and now sits at a very healthy 350,000 subscribers (of course keep in mind eve is very alt account-centric). Yes I guess the number of actual players is around 100,000 - 150,000. Never played a game where peopel on average had so many accounts.
Zeba ForumWhoor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Jita Alt666 The problem CCP have, with aiming to expand the player base, is that Eve currently fills a niche game market. It fills that niche really well - so dont call me a hate ccp cause it's popular forum troll. Whilst expanding, CCP are in danger of losing that special eve niche and becoming another generic MMO. The sort that attract 100k new players in 3 months and then disapoint 95k of those 100k and then become financially insolvent. This problem is common in any business that aims to have rapid expansion, I hope CCP are doing cross industry networking with businesses that have successfully gone from being niche players to market heavy weights. Personally I don't see this issue at all. The sandbox nature of the game means that they can literally fit an infinite amount of playstyles into the game without stepping on anyones toes. Basically if someone is interested in a particular corner of the sandbox then they will go over and play in it despite the other corner full of the kids doing crap they don't particularly care for. So as long as ccp makes it viable to go over to the other corner and kick some sand around then all will be well. ZOMG!!!
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.09.15 07:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Zeba ForumWhoor So as long as ccp makes it viable to go over to the other corner and kick some sand around then all will be well. This is where they will fall over.
Zeba ForumWhoor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Jita Alt666 Originally by: Zeba ForumWhoor So as long as ccp makes it viable to go over to the other corner and kick some sand around then all will be well. This is where they will fall over. Quite frankly the ongoing stats decline to submit to your 'logic'. Though this new incarna stuff has yet to be seen so I will waffle and pass any judgment until then. ZOMG!!!
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Zeba ForumWhoor Originally by: Jita Alt666 Originally by: Zeba ForumWhoor So as long as ccp makes it viable to go over to the other corner and kick some sand around then all will be well. This is where they will fall over. Quite frankly the ongoing stats decline to submit to your 'logic'. Though this new incarna stuff has yet to be seen so I will waffle and pass any judgment until then. Inability to deal with lag is a very real example of: unviable to go to a corner and kick sand around.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2010.09.15 10:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Azshann Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? Because in Eve, the advertised idea of "total freedom" actually boils down to two basic choices: either you're a spacejerk or you're a victim of spacejerks. Not that the rest of the MMO world is any better, where everyone is just a white knight. But a lot of people do seem to prefer it that way. shrug /Ben
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2010.09.15 10:58:00 - [18] I know it's better for CCP now financially (moar subs), but I preferred it in the olden days when 10k PCU was "over 9000!!!one1!", there were free research slots in hi-sec, office rental was cheap everywhere, low-sec was empty and 0.0 wasn't laggy. Just call me bitter and old fashioned. Cue 2003 players saying Beta was better.... If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok?
Kezzle	Posted - 2010.09.15 11:38:00 - [19] The biggest turnoff for the people I know is the inability to guarantee 100% absolutlely that they will not be involved in any non-consensual PvP. Simple as that. They don't mind PvPing. They wouldn't mind losing Bajillions of ISK over the years in ships destroyed under them when they elected to place them in harm's way. They're clever, motivated people who'd do fine if they could get past the principle of not wanting to have their style of play dictated to them by someone else. The second-biggest turnoff is that the game really isn't very supportive of 'just futzing around'. The biggest 'bimbling' activity is missioning, and that's really quite deathly dull compared to other products out there.
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:03:00 - [20] I always ascribe EVE subscribers to an usually-shaped completely full hour-glass. Take the amount of subscribers and apply it to this full hour glass. At the top is the amount of new subscribers and at the bottom are the beta guys. The longevity is apparently 1 year - so those that stay after 1 year are the ones who make it through the tight middle section and the ones who don't, have their accounts go inactive and may return again, but probably will feel whatever made them feel the need to leave again, again, and stay in this zone. The ones who are at the top are the most important people from a future perspective, as it is and always will be necessary for these guys to go through the middle, or at least make it to the middle section of the hour glass, yielding a return on investment to CCP in terms of 'how much does it cost to get a new player to stay?' From a gamers perspective, these people at the top are also very important, as without them the economy will probably fall apart should there be a disproportionate quantity of new players willing (or only able due to skills) to purchase tech1 gear. This is kinda off-topic I know, but it is the way I see the game and if you really think about in these terms, the capital warfare/null sec is not (from a business perspective) of major importance to CCP. Don't get me wrong, I do strongly believe CCP care very deeply about the game we play and work untold hours to correct issues which affect us, but as to why Adults leave? Probably because they have done all that they wanted to do and have effectively played the game to a point of satisfaction to them. Lets be honest, once you've seen one system, you've seen them all and accumulation of wealth becomes 'uninteresting' beyond 1 billion for most people, compared to how unbelievably wealthy you felt when you got your first million. Dust 514 has the potential to be more successful than EVE from a financial perspective and I'm sure it will increase the populace, but that will not stop the hour glass syndrome. Not everyone makes it through the middle, no matter how much sand is added and in truth I see this mid-section shrinking as time goes forth due to the absolutely humongous amount of skills which are being added all the time. I'm not siding with those who argue that 'skills mean nothing' I'm merely pointing out that a players interaction with the game is directly proportional to the amount of skills they have, minus isk. In other words there is a limit to the amount of EVE online game content available to them based on the amount of skills they have. If a player is (only) interested in flying the biggest baddest ships in the game, they have to skill for them, and a Titan takes a very very long time to train for. I appreciate they are (kinda) missing the point of the game, and yes they will need the isk to buy, own, operate and maintain one of these ships, but in this hypothetical instance - this is all someone wants to do and it takes a very long time to get access to this content. If you take the skills issue a step further, what is next? What is the next 'big thing' we will be able to train for? What is the next level for skills (because the older players are running out of toys to play with and are running out of sand to kick in the other children's faces) for the older players? And going on from that, how big is the gap going to be between the available content to new players and the available content to older players in terms of skills and isk. In the future, I wonder how fast a new player quits when they have a convo with someone in a belt whilst they are ibis-mining, who turns up in a T4 thorax with Jovian MWD and finds out it takes 4 years of skills and 5 Trillion isk to obtain such a ship? TL/DR: EVE will fail when the gap between high-content skill-time and average subscriber length grows too high. If this equation is not addressed, as Sir Molle once said 'tick-tock'. AK EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks
Khanaris Asgarth Eternium Industries	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Azshann Edited by: Azshann on 15/09/2010 04:25:13 For a long time I had been searching for a game that could fulfill my desires. I found that game when I started playing EvE. I suspect that this game became more immerse than originally intended by the developers, this is of course a good thing. Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? Will DUST 514 possibly increase the EvE population? Some people prefer instant gratification and ego massaging offered by mainstream MMO's with a mass appeal. Whereas EVE is a niche game with slow constant growing user base. Rather than the big expansion with slow decline after launch nearly all other online games suffer from.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:13:00 - [22] There is no one reason, but i think most people are disappointed to find the game mechanics cater to pirates far too much, which has also made roughly 85% of the players pirates, and pretty much screwed up any concept of a diverse universe. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Professor Tarantula ...roughly 85% of the players [are] pirates This says more about the human condition than it does game mechanics tbh If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok?
Richard Christy	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:31:00 - [24] "Why aren't there more people subscribing to EvE?" Not sure tbh,have you asked everyone that isn't playing Eve why they're not playing Eve? I guess that'll give an insight into the situation at hand.
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Richard Christy "Why aren't there more people subscribing to EvE?" Not sure tbh,have you asked everyone that isn't playing Eve why they're not playing Eve? I guess that'll give an insight into the situation at hand. Maybe CCP could take advantage of Google Adsense and spam people WHO ALREADY PLAY EVE with banners on every ****ing website they visit (yes I know, clear my cookies) If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok?
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:37:00 - [26] The most popular reasons given by people for not playing EVE, in no particular order are the following: 1. Don't like sci-fi 2. Ships as avatars and lack of customisation 3. No instant gratification/harsh consequenses 4. Don't like PvP, only play on PvE servers 5. Boring gameplay for them - There are various reasons for this, so I would separate it from instant gratification. For example things like combat not being based on special abilities like in many other MMOs, but instead is too heavily based on auto attack and pre-combat planning. Many of these reasons are simply something EVE is unlikely to ever provide in competative amounts, but EVE can still be improved on many off these fronts without ruining the current game. CCP might not be interested in doing it though. DUST for example was a good chance to add instant gratification/low consequense gameplay to EVE without affecting the current gameplay in a negative way, but CCP seems to want to keep different gameplay styles clearly divided in separate games. The more separated DUST is from EVE, the less impact it will have on EVE population.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:52:00 - [27] Simple answer: Most rewarding activity in eve is beeing an ahat. Many ppl don¦t want to be ahats, and the one who want, are already here.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The most popular reasons given by people for not playing EVE, in no particular order are the following: 3. No instant gratification/harsh consequenses I've never met anyone who admits that, about anything. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:58:00 - [29] because other games are more fun for some people, I know if there was a decent wasd (well at least ****pit controls) space game out I'd probably be gone. some people don't like that you are always stuck in the ship and can't get out to walk around space. some get thrown off by the complexity. others the slow start and some because all the spacemen look like lenny kravitz.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet	Posted - 2010.09.15 13:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Azshann Why would any ADULT leave this game and go back to another MMO? If the people who inhabit these forums are truly adults then I hope global warming does indeed wipe out humanity.

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