| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jenny Cameron
Caldari
   |
Posted - 2010.09.16 09:21:00 -
[1]
Every now and then people use the word "sandbox" to distinguish between EVE and other "theme park" mmorpgs. And yes, I can see that, in a way, EVE isn't as linear as other games.
On the other hand the game mechanics of EVE do limit your possibilities and more or less point you into some directions. For example the mechanics like standings repair, highsec wardecs and insurance and the fact that all ships beyond battleships can only be used in low/nulsec would make training them useless - unless you're into low/nulsec fights. The best ore, PI, complexes, rats and anomalies (that give the best "gear") are all in nullsec. These game mechanics all seem to push you to the PvP side of the game.
So in a way the linear path is less obvious but nontheless the game mechanics all seem to push you into some specific direction.
Next to that the sandbox designers didn't cater players with any tools to do other things, like options for ship and character custiomization or player interaction. There's no option to interact with planets or build villages. The PvE content doesn't have a lot of depth. Mining/industry is basically something you do afk. It requires quite some investigation to find out how it works but after that it's not something that keeps you playing for hours.
You can only do in the sandbox what the tools you're provided allow you to do.
And how does "the sandbox" really duistinguish itself from more common games? DAoC already had territorial control and player owned structures. Most games have standings and rewards from NPC organizations. Mission grinding for money also isn't something new. Gathering resources to transform them to consumables and gear isn't either.
So how sandbox is the sandbox really?
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 09:45:00 -
[2]
mmm Theme Hospital!
And how much sandbox the sandbox really is, I think is up to each pilot. For me the sandbox allows me to do whatever I set my goal to. I don't see any linear string that keeps me going. And obviously yes, it only allows you to do things with the tools provided, so in that view it's not a sandbox really no - but then only life could be the sandbox.
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
|
Cebraio
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:14:00 -
[3]
I read two things in your post:
1. you find the base professions boring or not really sandboxy
2. you do not want to go to low sec or 0.0 and maybe don't want to PVP at all
On point 1 I agree. I do missions because they pay well, not because they are particularly fun. There is not much depth in the base professions, that's why I wouldn't recommend sticking to them.
Point 2 is your personal decision. By limiting yourself to Hi Sec, you limit your possibilities. Not a fault of the sandbox design.
Of course, the sandbox needs to set those limits. Otherwise everybody would be mining Arkonor in their titans in hi sec, or some madness like that.
So the sandbox is not limitless, but it is much bigger than in many MMOs, I think.
Things you could do, despite the base professions:
- Ninja salvaging
- Exploring wormholes (not too dangerous if you can cloak)
- Trade
- Run a corp
- Invent new scams
- Research
- Manufacturing
- Gank in hi sec
- Become a pirate
- Become a mercenary
- ...
Ok, some of those involve PVP, but basically you can do what you want. Just be creative and follow your heart.
|
Null Color
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:22:00 -
[4]
The sandbox is a marketing gimmick CCP likes to throw out there from time to time to justify their inability to produce dynamic, reliable content in a timely manner.
"Its a sandbox, make your own fun"
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:28:00 -
[5]
EVE used to be a lot different. No CONCORD, no gate guns, no arc agents sending you around. Even the tutorial didn't hold your hand.
I wonder where all the sand went.
|
Serpents smile
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:34:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: gfldex
EVE used to be a lot different. No CONCORD, no gate guns, no arc agents sending you around. Even the tutorial didn't hold your hand.
I wonder where all the sand went.
/me looks in your pants....
|
Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Eternal Ascension
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:40:00 -
[7]
hi cat here
the sandbox is a wonderful place where you can build your sandcastles and even dig for treasure! it is a very productive and enjoyable place lol \o/
then some stupid pirate who doesnt even have a sole comes a long and kicks down your sand castle and steals your treasure 
xx
EVE Garden |
Cebraio
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: gfldex
EVE used to be a lot different. No CONCORD, no gate guns, no arc agents sending you around. Even the tutorial didn't hold your hand.
I wonder where all the sand went.
No gates and no CONCORD? That must have been in the beta, cos as far as I remember both mechanics always have been there. Although CONCORD used to be weaker, so they could be fought etc.
The agents are completely voluntarily. No one has to do their stupid missions and even some new players go straight to things like ninja salvaging, because they see through the agent system. For less creative players its a help to understand the basics and do some first steps. Nothing wrong with that.
|
Stilgaard
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:49:00 -
[9]
Quote:
And how does "the sandbox" really duistinguish itself from more common games?
Played many other MMO's?
When is the last time you tried to do something in this game (i.e. explore, travel, steal, blow something up, etc) and got a system message that "you can't do that!" or ran into an invisible/glowy red wall preventing you from moving further? Or tried to find someone you might know in real life and actually find them rather than learn that they played on another server than you?
Most of if not all of the top 10 games out there have limits and RULES that keep you in a cage most of the time, no cages here, just one huge sandbox with no edges to do whatever you want.
I believe that is what most players here love about it so much.
The things you list as "limits" are consequences for your choices in the game, you can do them or not, the game isn't leading you down a predetermined path to raid-or-die in order to enjoy it.
|
Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 12:40:00 -
[10]
It's a box containing sand. And bears no resemblance to Eve, since there is no sand here. And no box.
Next.
Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
Missm Uppet
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 13:30:00 -
[11]
Just trying to answer of few of your questions:
CCP encourages PvP because it is almost certainly the most dynamic and immersive part of the game so far. For those who take on the risk of doing stuff in null sec, there should be greater reward. Greater risk equating to potentially greater reward is a real life concept that most agree it is important to mirror in this game. They don't let large ships into high-sec because of their threat to the more peace-loving populations in high-sec.
Ice mining and ore mining or both somewhat AFK if you want them to be, but other stuff can be done while you're at it as well. The rest of indsutry and trading isn't AFK at all if you want to be very profitable at it.
I will agree with you that I would like to see more options in the way of ship customizations and player interactions. It's difficult, when you're new especially, to get used to the idea of having nothing more than a small picture that represents your self/identity in this game. Incarna (which some of us have been waiting on for years) should greatly improve that side of the game. I suppose ship customizations are slow in coming because of the threat of people doing stupid stuff with them (take a moment to imagine how that could play out if not done carefully). The game is mostly about spaceships to this point and I doubt we'll see much development along the lines of planet-side villages to walk around and interact with in the near future. I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy something along those lines, but it would be a huge project and there are many more areas with the existing content that demand the developers' attention to be honest.
Sure, other games have some of the same sandbox elements that EVE does, but I don't know of too many that have them on the scale that this game does.
|
Dreeepa
Amarr
German Space Factory
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 13:33:00 -
[12]
Sandbox means:
A persistent world you can change.
In favor of SB:
-Territory Control
-POS
-Player Economy
-Player development is totally up to the to the player
Against SB:
-Stations cannot be attacked and are safe points
-Gates are static and the routes are static. No gates created/destroyed by players
-No interaction with space other than pew pew / mine. No tracktorbeams on astroids, no landing on old mission platform etc. its just eye candy but you cant interact with most of it.
The world is dynamic, but its not as sandboxish as e.g. Ultima Online was. That one was more sandbox style.
____________________________________
touch the legacy code, touch the legacy code!!! |
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 13:34:00 -
[13]
Watch out, some kids go wee wee in the sandbox thus messing up what you want to do!
|
|
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 14:11:00 -
[14]
Thread cleaned. Please stay on topic.
Navigator
Senior Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
|
|
Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 15:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Chribba
mmm Theme Hospital!
"Doctor to Inflator Room"
I am soooo digging that out and intalling it.
Hope it works on Vista 64 
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Titus Phook
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 16:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Titus Phook on 16/09/2010 16:47:49
Of course it's a sandbox, you can basically set your own goals in eve as long as you're prepared to take risks to achieve them. Other people might not like those goals and try and stop you doing what you want but that's the nature of a sandbox.
Besides at least the pirates are house trained, they crap in the sand and not on your carpet .
---------------------------------------------
Proudly posting with my Alt since 2009 |
Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 16:52:00 -
[17]
As with all sandboxes, there's always some kid waiting to throw sand in your eye and steal your bucket and spade 
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Aldor
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 18:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stilgaard
When is the last time you tried to do something in this game (i.e. explore, travel, steal, blow something up, etc) and got a system message that "you can't do that!" or ran into an invisible/glowy red wall preventing you from moving further? Or tried to find someone you might know in real life and actually find them rather than learn that they played on another server than you?
Sorry just had to call you out on this one. Try taking your Nyx into Jita. Or less of an obvious one try taking a certain class of ship into a deadspace pocket that it doesn't "allow". Try using MWD in deadspace. Etc. There are quite a few things I can point out that your limited to doing due to game design and not player actions.
|
KaarBaak
Minmatar
Hell's Librarians
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 19:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dreeepa
Sandbox means:
-Gates are static and the routes are static. No gates created/destroyed by players
I always thought it'd be cool if they allowed gates to be player-created. Though make it a huge undertaking requiring plenty of skills and 30-90 days to create. If CCP created say...100 standby systems...like WHs. Once one of these ultra-rare WHs is discovered and some kind of beacon is established on each side, construction of a gate could be executed.
Sorry...I'm in F&I territory, now.
Back to the sandbox discussion: I grant a bit more leeway to the term. Every pilot that is created is essentially on equal terms and can go in any direction in terms of "career." Most fantasy-based MMOs limit you to your "class" and your employment options are limited from the first step into the game.
KB
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Zeba ForumWhoor
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 19:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
As with all sandboxes, there's always some kid waiting to throw sand in your eye and steal your bucket and spade
I much prefer the analogy of cats in the sandbox myself to decribe the greifer mentality around here. 
ZOMG!!! |
Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 19:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aldor
Originally by: Stilgaard
When is the last time you tried to do something in this game (i.e. explore, travel, steal, blow something up, etc) and got a system message that "you can't do that!" or ran into an invisible/glowy red wall preventing you from moving further? Or tried to find someone you might know in real life and actually find them rather than learn that they played on another server than you?
Sorry just had to call you out on this one. Try taking your Nyx into Jita. Or less of an obvious one try taking a certain class of ship into a deadspace pocket that it doesn't "allow". Try using MWD in deadspace. Etc. There are quite a few things I can point out that your limited to doing due to game design and not player actions.
Try using a bomb in 0.1 - 1.0 etc etc
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Daisuke Aoki
Gallente
Independent Coalition
OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 20:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jenny Cameron
Every now and then people use the word "sandbox" to distinguish between EVE and other "theme park" mmorpgs. And yes, I can see that, in a way, EVE isn't as linear as other games.
On the other hand the game mechanics of EVE do limit your possibilities and more or less point you into some directions.
For example the mechanics like standings repair, highsec wardecs and insurance and the fact that all ships beyond battleships can only be used in low/nulsec would make training them useless - unless you're into low/nulsec fights. The best ore, PI, complexes, rats and anomalies (that give the best "gear") are all in nullsec. These game mechanics all seem to push you to the PvP side of the game.
I don't really see how 'standings repair' makes it less of a sandbox. A sandbox environment doesn't just mean you can do whatever you want 100% of the time, it means your actions have consequences - i.e., if you do missions for one faction, you're going to lose standings with their enemies. Sort of analogous to real-world international politics.
Highsec wardecs, I don't see how that makes it any less of a sandbox either. Are you complaining you're being forced into PvP? Sorry, it's a PvP centric game at its roots. There's ways to avoid wardecs (like staying in an NPC corp) if you really hate them.
The fact that the best ore and planets are in low/nullsec is a simple risk-reward equation. You take more risk, you get a better reward.
Originally by: Jenny Cameron
So in a way the linear path is less obvious but nontheless the game mechanics all seem to push you into some specific direction.
Next to that the sandbox designers didn't cater players with any tools to do other things, like options for ship and character custiomization or player interaction. There's no option to interact with planets or build villages. The PvE content doesn't have a lot of depth. Mining/industry is basically something you do afk. It requires quite some investigation to find out how it works but after that it's not something that keeps you playing for hours.
You can only do in the sandbox what the tools you're provided allow you to do.
They're beginning to introduce planetary interaction and widen its depth in preparation to connect the game with the upcoming Dust 514. Unfortunately for you (apparantly) that too is combat-centric (although PI at the time is totally an industrial activity and risk free) and not about 'building villages' like some sort of odd SimCity in space.
A lot of people actually think it's kind of a farce and ridiculous that there's no way to destroy other people's PI equipment now.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 20:25:00 -
[23]
What's in the sandbox?
Land minesà 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Jenny Cameron
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:06:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 16/09/2010 21:06:22
Originally by: Daisuke Aoki
I don't really see how 'standings repair' makes it less of a sandbox. A sandbox environment doesn't just mean you can do whatever you want 100% of the time, it means your actions have consequences - i.e., if you do missions for one faction, you're going to lose standings with their enemies. Sort of analogous to real-world international politics.
Highsec wardecs, I don't see how that makes it any less of a sandbox either. Are you complaining you're being forced into PvP? Sorry, it's a PvP centric game at its roots.
Well as I see it, a sandbox offers equal opportunities to all kinds of playstyles, what¦s a sandbox if only using a shovel is rewarded and those with buckets get pushed out or very limited because the sandbox is `shovel centered` and after 7 years there¦s still no room for people who like to play with seaves.
Imo PvP is just one playstyle of many. In a way centering a game around just 1 thing is just as sandbox as centering it around gear aquisition.
I do agree with highsec PvP and the fact that you¦re nowhere really safe, it¦s realistic, IRL you can also kill anyone whenever you like. It¦s the lack of consequences that I have my doubts about in the sense that it unbalances the real sandbox feeling.
|
Aldor
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:06:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aldor on 16/09/2010 21:08:59
Originally by: Daisuke Aoki
A sandbox environment doesn't just mean you can do whatever you want 100% of the time, it means your actions have consequences - i.e., if you do missions for one faction, you're going to lose standings with their enemies. Sort of analogous to real-world international politics.
Highsec wardecs, I don't see how that makes it any less of a sandbox either. Are you complaining you're being forced into PvP? Sorry, it's a PvP centric game at its roots. There's ways to avoid wardecs (like staying in an NPC corp) if you really hate them.
The fact that the best ore and planets are in low/nullsec is a simple risk-reward equation. You take more risk, you get a better reward.
That's exactly what a sandbox ISN'T. Fire up any sim/strategy game (anno series comes to mind) and the sandbox mode is where you setup your starting cash, number of enemies, difficulty, etc. Sandboxes were created in game to where you could play the game with no worries of consequences or failing a mission.
The main problem I have with the sandboxyness of EVE is that EVE is built around players who can dedicate a substantial amount of time to the game. Your right, if you want to get the best ores and better returns you have to assume the risk and move to null sec. However, with that move come greater responsibilities. Mining ops, defense ops, etc. Some people don't have the luxury to wait 4 hours at a gate waiting for the other fleet to organize.
Now I'm the first to say if you don't like that style of play then GTFO and can I have your stuff, r u mad? 
However, I would love to see some more love tossed to the way of the casual gamer who can maybe pop on for 30 minutes without having to rescue that damn damsel again (can't the b*tch stop herself from getting caught btw?) and capturing thieves.
Edit: And anyone who has lost 1Bil+ in this game has felt the pain of losing a months+ worth of work. Lost 1-6months of work in this game and then tell me how fair and balanced it is.
But a sandbox this is not. More of a free choice game. Your ultimate goal is what you want it to be. There isn't that phat lewt of lvl 80 epic gear... or wait.. we just call that faction loot... damn...
|
io0olilo0oi
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:36:00 -
[26]
Secondlife.com is a sandbox game.
Eve is not a sandbox. Not even near close.
Eve is a scifi mmorpg where 99% of the players ignore the 'rp' making it i guess a mmog
|
Vak'ran
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chribba
mmm Theme Hospital!
omg now you've gone and done it, so much for sleeping tonight
/me dusts off old misc games cd's in search of theme hospital...
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
Osiris Heart
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:51:00 -
[28]
Jenny Cameron
I suggest you check these links.
This one will simply explain you what is sandbox in eve and how it works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo
This one explains "sandbox" in any game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game
This gives explanation that is more scientific:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
Last one gives more understanding about Chaos Theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
Do not hesitate to use links that are located in the text directly. You could discover there more scientific explanation of it.
|
Jita Alt666
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 22:31:00 -
[29]
The one thing you can guarentee in the sandbox known as eve is that some one will get sand in their mangina.
|
omgfreemoniez
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 22:37:00 -
[30]
Its a box full of sand.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |