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Gravemind GER Caldari Pyromaniac Legion	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:17:00 - [1] http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=797 The New (Ninja)Looter of the Carebears? Discuss.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:32:00 - [2] not really enough cpu to fit combat probe and useful fits.. Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails so i'm pretty much anti cat at the moment (lol) x
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:34:00 - [3] I was thinking it'd be better as a wormhole ship. :) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Gravemind GER http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=797 The New (Ninja)Looter of the Carebears? Discuss. Actually, this is perfect ANTI-ninja salvager/looter ship. Look at the insane tractor range. Since ninjas cannot tractor your wrecks, that bonus is worthless to them. However if you have a dedicated salvager pilot who follows you in missions, then that guy can clean up without moving on most missions. Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors, then faster cycling salvagers means your salvage pilot will pop a wreck faster. If anything, this is a direct response to all the whining about ninjas. That said... I love the Primae hull and I cannot wait to fly this. Awesome job CCP. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:44:00 - [5] A carebear ship, how wonderful.
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:51:00 - [6] Let the trolling commence. (Actually, this is really cool..) Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Corozan Aspinall on 17/09/2010 19:53:35 Yeah I am not too keen on those bonuses. Seem a bit ott. So now Joe Carebear can have his 2nd account salvage alt follow him in his missions and scoop up all the salvage while he afk's the objectives? Yawn. Good idea CCP bad implementation. You should be focussing on enhancing interactions not giving the bears more tools with which to avoid them imho. PS: The other dev blog re: the CSM was just tl;dr. Full of marketing guff and business speak buzz words nonsense. I read the first 200 words then gave up on finding a point/message/news feature. edit: Yeah. I can be critical of CCP! See! I'm being critical. Meh.
Hari Markkus Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:03:00 - [8] Originally by: omgfreemoniez A carebear ship, how wonderful. omgiagreewithomgfreemoniez. Any chance of a new combat ship? Or four? A speedy Caldari boat would be my preference. But anything that has more turret and missile hardpoints than the The Noctis would be cool. Not Happy.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Hari Markkus Originally by: omgfreemoniez A carebear ship, how wonderful. omgiagreewithomgfreemoniez. Any chance of a new combat ship? Or four? A speedy Caldari boat would be my preference. But anything that has more turret and missile hardpoints than the The Noctis would be cool. Not Happy. keep in mind the design your own ship contest.... im fairly certain that will be a combat ship Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails so i'm pretty much anti cat at the moment (lol) x
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Stick Cult Let the trolling commence. (Actually, this is really cool..) Hey Sticks were you been? -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1

Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Stick Cult Let the trolling commence. (Actually, this is really cool..) Hey Sticks were you been? Oh ya know, around... with your sister... Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Gravemind GER Caldari Pyromaniac Legion	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Joe SMASH Originally by: Gravemind GER http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=797 The New (Ninja)Looter of the Carebears? Discuss. Actually, this is perfect ANTI-ninja salvager/looter ship. Look at the insane tractor range. Since ninjas cannot tractor your wrecks, that bonus is worthless to them. However if you have a dedicated salvager pilot who follows you in missions, then that guy can clean up without moving on most missions. Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors, then faster cycling salvagers means your salvage pilot will pop a wreck faster. If anything, this is a direct response to all the whining about ninjas. That said... I love the Primae hull and I cannot wait to fly this. Awesome job CCP. there were whine threads about people who ever wanted this kind of shiptype now they get it.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Gravemind GER Originally by: Joe SMASH Originally by: Gravemind GER http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=797 The New (Ninja)Looter of the Carebears? Discuss. Actually, this is perfect ANTI-ninja salvager/looter ship. Look at the insane tractor range. Since ninjas cannot tractor your wrecks, that bonus is worthless to them. However if you have a dedicated salvager pilot who follows you in missions, then that guy can clean up without moving on most missions. Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors, then faster cycling salvagers means your salvage pilot will pop a wreck faster. If anything, this is a direct response to all the whining about ninjas. That said... I love the Primae hull and I cannot wait to fly this. Awesome job CCP. there were whine threads about people who ever wanted this kind of shiptype now they get it. As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:12:00 - [14] I ate Veldspare for dinner. Thank you ORE. Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Gravemind GER Caldari Pyromaniac Legion	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Gravemind GER Originally by: Joe SMASH Originally by: Gravemind GER http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=797 The New (Ninja)Looter of the Carebears? Discuss. Actually, this is perfect ANTI-ninja salvager/looter ship. Look at the insane tractor range. Since ninjas cannot tractor your wrecks, that bonus is worthless to them. However if you have a dedicated salvager pilot who follows you in missions, then that guy can clean up without moving on most missions. Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors, then faster cycling salvagers means your salvage pilot will pop a wreck faster. If anything, this is a direct response to all the whining about ninjas. That said... I love the Primae hull and I cannot wait to fly this. Awesome job CCP. there were whine threads about people who ever wanted this kind of shiptype now they get it. As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good. solo you cant ninja the bears wrecks, but in a fleet you can with a cov op and the noctis
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good. They won't. Tractor bonuses will be useless, has 300 CPU, and only goes 150-ish m/s. If you're ninja-ing, you want something faster, and that can fit combat probes better. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Stick Cult Originally by: Corozan Aspinall As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good. They won't. Tractor bonuses will be useless, has 300 CPU, and only goes 150-ish m/s. If you're ninja-ing, you want something faster, and that can fit combat probes better. wow. Back to the first reply already how quickly this thread moves Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails so i'm pretty much anti cat at the moment (lol) x
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Gravemind GER As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good. solo you cant ninja the bears wrecks, but in a fleet you can with a cov op and the noctis Yup. Did some thinking after my third beer and it occured to me you are right there. Apologies CCP! Fan Boi recanting! In fact it could be cool using them in this way AND suiciding the bear's one in mission before warping in your own to fleet corp/mate. Or just suicide the bear's one in a thrasher for terribad karma! Given they are going to cost 200m+ and, if you wait until he's filled it up for you: Win! Arrr!
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:23:00 - [19] WTF is up with that inertia modifier? That thing will align like a Dramiel.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:31:00 - [20] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 17/09/2010 20:32:06 Originally by: Stick Cult Oh ya know, around... with your sister... My sister is twelve, so federal prison! Edit: How is the food there! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1

Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 17/09/2010 20:32:06 Originally by: Stick Cult Oh ya know, around... with your sister... My sister is twelve, so federal prison! Edit: How is the food there! Now you have your answer to where I was.... It was actually good food... Just don't drop the soap.. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Rexthor Hammerfists Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 17/09/2010 20:32:06 Originally by: Stick Cult Oh ya know, around... with your sister... My sister is twelve, so federal prison! Edit: How is the food there! Why do you ask, considering joining him? Neat little ship with a proper role etc. maybe a good opportunity to look at the number of t1 frigs and cruisers and also some bcs and t2 ships that either have no role or canot fulfill it due to weak attributes ;) -
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:45:00 - [23] been waiting for when they decide to make this kind of ship :) even tho i very rare do missions... this thing will be nice for those that loot and salvage ---------------------------------- Fighting for something
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.17 20:46:00 - [24] Originally by: omgfreemoniez WTF is up with that inertia modifier? That thing will align like a Dramiel. Take your Primae for a spin and see how it handlesà àand consider what it will end up like once you load it down with expanders and all the other heavy bits and pieces to make it hold all the crap you want to suck up. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Osiris Heart	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:00:00 - [25] Does anybody know what the size of this ship is? I mean will this ship allowed to enter into all mission pockets or it going to be restricted for it as it is restricted for BC, BS and bigger ships?
yani dumyat Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Given they are going to cost 200m+ and, if you wait until he's filled it up for you: Win! Arrr! Blueprint was going to be about 290 mill, same as a battlecruiser. The ship itself will end up about 30 mill after a brief period of silly introduction prices. Still plenty of tears to be harvested though ^_^ _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:07:00 - [27] Originally by: yani dumyat Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Given they are going to cost 200m+ and, if you wait until he's filled it up for you: Win! Arrr! Blueprint was going to be about 290 mill, same as a battlecruiser. The ship itself will end up about 30 mill after a brief period of silly introduction prices. Still plenty of tears to be harvested though ^_^ Hehe. I edited that to 100m half an hour ago! Sniped! Yeah, for sure! Still well worth ganking .. then bringing in your buddy in his to clean up the mess.
Creiter	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:22:00 - [28] Several things come to mind 1. Awesome! 2. Whoa! (price) 3. ??? 4. Not going to be worth flying for awhile once its released. Its probably going to retail for as much as a hulk or more by looking at the price of that BPO (which means alot of salvaging to pay it off ), probably be released sometime around when Hulkageddon "Barrel Shoot" IV rolls around at the end of the year, and predictablty of the EVE community to gank easy targets could make me some money if I could bet on it and not get cheated . Hurricane is still cheaper for the alt at 1/10th the price and with a marauder I can already round up most wrecks into a tight ball, easy to fly out and pick up the 50km stragglers with the alt.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Creiter Its probably going to retail for as much as a hulk or more by looking at the price of that BPO The BPO costs as much as a battlecruiser (no surprise there, since that's the size of the Primae hull) Quote: Hurricane is still cheaper for the alt at 1/10th the price More along the lines of 2/3ds the price ù the build requirements for the thing is about 50% higher than a BC. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Akita T on 17/09/2010 21:42:27 Originally by: Creiter 2. Whoa! (price) Excuse me ? What "whoa" ? At current mineral prices, it's going to sell for under 50 mil in a week after release or thereabouts, and I'd be surprised if it will sell for more than 35 mil after a couple of months. Price will probably settle at barely over 30 mil, or even less than that if mineral prices keep dropping like expected.

Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:42:00 - [31] So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.17 21:47:00 - [32] Originally by: Verone So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? Nice thought, however quite unlikely. Meh, you never know, it might happen though if enough people complain about it... for a couple of years. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Verone So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? We did consider Marauders during the design for the Noctis, and we don't feel like the two ships overlap particularly. The only obvious scenario where a Marauder is now markedly less useful is where you're dual-boxing a PvE site that has no additional spawns or risk of aggro switches. We feel that this constitutes a sufficiently small subset of a Marauder's common use cases that it's not a significant issue. (Based on the assumption that if you're PVEing in a Marauder, you shouldn't be experiencing a significant lag between final NPC killed and final wreck salvaged.)

David Grogan Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:15:00 - [34] Edited by: David Grogan on 17/09/2010 22:15:32 dear ccp can u make one more adjustment to the specs b4 ya release it? with no turret hardpoints this ship is completly defenceless... please give it at least a 25m3 drone bay for light drones SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:19:00 - [35] I just read the thread and found out what the Noctis does! I am so happy, the OMGNEWTOY factor is at 5! I love you CCP Greyscale! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall So now Joe Carebear can have his 2nd account salvage alt follow him in his missions and scoop up all the salvage while he afk's the objectives? Yawn. Thats the point. Hey all you single account mission runners time to buy a second to get the salvage loot sorted.
Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:40:00 - [37] Edited by: Bill O''Really on 17/09/2010 22:45:24 Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Verone So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? We did consider Marauders during the design for the Noctis, and we don't feel like the two ships overlap particularly. The only obvious scenario where a Marauder is now markedly less useful is where you're dual-boxing a PvE site that has no additional spawns or risk of aggro switches. We feel that this constitutes a sufficiently small subset of a Marauder's common use cases that it's not a significant issue. (Based on the assumption that if you're PVEing in a Marauder, you shouldn't be experiencing a significant lag between final NPC killed and final wreck salvaged.) Hmm, I don't agree with that assessment. The way I mission in my marauder is reel everything into a ball during the mission and come back later with a salvage BC. As a Marauder's tractor range is 40km, that means that you either have to leave a lot of wrecks beyond that range, or wait for the npc's to come closer which considerable adds to the mission completion times (or approach the wrecks which takes a lot of time as well). Since I come back in a secondary ship later anyway, coming back in a 60km tractor range Noctis seems a much more preferable option since you can reach pretty much everything right away. In this missioning approach the only advantage a marauder still has over a normal bs is being able to reel in the closeby wrecks on the fly and save the rest for the Noctis when looting. Of course my Pally also has the benefit of 200% damage to 4 x lazors. But hey, ... the Nightmare does that as well and has more dps anyway. So yeah, that debate seems to have been settled now. Tractor advantage of a marauder compared to faction bs's is kind of obsolete for the way I mission. Unless ... Marauders get a 60 km tractor bonus as well. Maybe link tractor range to the marauder skill? I can't see how that would make them unbalanced, personally /carebear rant
Hari Markkus Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:47:00 - [38] Originally by: Jita Alt666 Hey all you single account mission runners time to buy a second to get the salvage loot sorted. So, even more loot and salvage is going to be coming onto the market, forcing down prices even more. So there is even less reason for me to bother with it now. Good. CCP, I hope that you are going to apologise to those people in the mission forum who will no longer be able to earn at least 100+M++ ISK+++ per+++ hour+++++ and sometimes more. Still not happy.

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:52:00 - [39] The way I've always done it with a Paladin is 1x tractor, 2x salvage and megapulses. Kill everything at under 40km (with some judicious early aggroing to make sure you're not waiting for the next group to enter range), tractor and salvage as you go. There's a few cases with long-orbiting BS and the like that make things a little more tedious, but in the majority of cases I have under five wrecks left when I pop the final NPC. Finish up, warp out and go for the next mission. With this MO there's not a whole lot a Noctis could speed up, even if I was dualboxing.

Eto LabOne	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:52:00 - [40] Edited by: Eto LabOne on 17/09/2010 22:56:21 Edited by: Eto LabOne on 17/09/2010 22:55:42 Agreed on the Ninja salvage bit. Please add more CPU, or a bonus to probe cpu useage. so it can fit combat probes and give it the ability to tractor wrecks of people who are not in your fleet. You hear nothing more in 0.0 ect then people begging the ratters to blue wrecks.

Shwedagon Paya	Posted - 2010.09.17 22:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Hari Markkus So, even more loot and salvage is going to be coming onto the market, forcing down prices even more. So there is even less reason for me to bother with it now. Good. Excellent... cheaper rigs for PvP pilots! Strange, though. Mining's becoming less profitable by the day (insurance fraud to blame for that, I suppose), salvage is getting cheaper, apparently some juicy mission loot has been replaced by metal scraps.... Carebear exodus, go!
Weight What Gallente	Posted - 2010.09.17 23:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball A sheath without a sword is useless. A mandolin string breaks; attend to internal problems before expanding. ----------------------------------------------- Pompous, currently trading as "Weight What".
Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.17 23:20:00 - [43] Edited by: Bill O''Really on 17/09/2010 23:25:04 Originally by: CCP Greyscale The way I've always done it with a Paladin is 1x tractor, 2x salvage and megapulses. Kill everything at under 40km (with some judicious early aggroing to make sure you're not waiting for the next group to enter range), tractor and salvage as you go. There's a few cases with long-orbiting BS and the like that make things a little more tedious, but in the majority of cases I have under five wrecks left when I pop the final NPC. Finish up, warp out and go for the next mission. With this MO there's not a whole lot a Noctis could speed up, even if I was dualboxing. Oh dear, CCP Greyscale ... I'm not sure how much experience you have with missioning with a Pally but the general consensus is that on most Sansha//Bloods missions (for which their damage is optimal) you should use Tachyons. It is one of the few bs's that can easily fit a 'full' rack of those and profit from the sweet, sweet 40km + range with multi frequency crystals and a tracking comp or two. There might be 'just' a few cases of ships orbiting at 40km but there are also scores of missions with ships that start of way beyond your 40km tractor range but well within your engagement range with Tachs. Try a lvl 4 Bloodraider Blockade with Tachs for a change and see how that 40 km tractor range is working out for you ;-) Typically I find myself in the middle of a cloud of wrecks with a 120 km diameter. All I know is that I will be trading in my Pally for a Nightmare if I will end up coming back in a Noctis anyway.

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.09.17 23:28:00 - [44] Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 17/09/2010 23:32:35 Horses for courses, I guess. The ~30-60s you lose up front waiting for your first aggro group to close range is IMO more than compensated for by the ~10 minutes you save on total mission time (acceptance to acceptance) by not salvaging on the back end. YMMV, obviously Edit: I've had extensive arguments with CCP Ytterbium about Megas vs Tachs at sub-40k ranges, and I think it really comes down to how many BS are coming in to Megapulse multi range. I'm open to the idea that Tachs might give you a better overall DPS profile in the 0-40k engagement area, but I don't buy the argument for engaging above 40k if you're optimizing for income per time unit. The efficiency gains from being able to go from completion straight into the next mission, with full loot and salvage, are too big to pass up IMO.

Osiris Heart	Posted - 2010.09.17 23:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Osiris Heart Does anybody know what the size of this ship is? I mean will this ship allowed to enter into all mission pockets or it going to be restricted for it as it is restricted for BC, BS and bigger ships? CCP Greyscale, I believe you are confident to answer this question, so could you, please?
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.09.17 23:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Bill O'Really I'm not sure how much experience you have with missioning with a Pally but the general consensus is that on most Sansha//Bloods missions (for which their damage is optimal) you should use Tachyons. That's not the way I fly. "Short" range weaponry so the marauder(s) can tractor stuff to salvage while the fight is in progress. Take on as many missions as possible, head out for an extended deployment in the field. Come back at the end of the night with a hold full of salvage, complete all the missions, go to bed. Quote: Typically I find myself in the middle of a cloud of wrecks with a 120 km diameter. You're doing it wrong. Besides, if you have wrecks spread out that far, a Noctis isn't going to make life any easier for you. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:08:00 - [47] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 17/09/2010 23:32:35 Horses for courses, I guess. The ~30-60s you lose up front waiting for your first aggro group to close range is IMO more than compensated for by the ~10 minutes you save on total mission time (acceptance to acceptance) by not salvaging on the back end. YMMV, obviously Edit: I've had extensive arguments with CCP Ytterbium about Megas vs Tachs at sub-40k ranges, and I think it really comes down to how many BS are coming in to Megapulse multi range. I'm open to the idea that Tachs might give you a better overall DPS profile in the 0-40k engagement area, but I don't buy the argument for engaging above 40k if you're optimizing for income per time unit. The efficiency gains from being able to go from completion straight into the next mission, with full loot and salvage, are too big to pass up IMO. Let us not divert into a discussion about Tachs versus Mega pulse in general but just acknowledge the fact that Tachs are are by far the most used guns on Paladins in lvl 4 Blood and Sansha missions and acknowledge that this is for good reason: you can start popping them buggers right away with high damage which is exactly what you want in order to complete a mission as fast as possible. Please browse through a typical level 4 mission list and note that except from drone and Angel missions, by far the most missions have groups sitting in range ranging from 40-90 km. With Tachs you start downing bs rats at 70 km with Standard and truly melt them within 45 km with Multi's, with mega pulses you only start tickling them with Radio around 50 km ... Waiting for a Sansha BS to close a 20 km gap to me before I start to do damage is not my cup of tea :) Waiting for rats to close in, slowboating until the wrecks are in tractor range and waiting for your single salvager to finish churning through the wreck-ball are all undesirable and people will naturally want to avoid this. People try to optimize missioning as much as possible as that is pretty much the only fun aspect to it after having completed them a gazillion times. Enter the Noctis ... The benefit the Marauders had over normal ships, which you will read again and again in countless of 'Paladin vs. Nightmare' threads was its tractor range. I may have read the sentence "If you like to salvage/tractor while you mission, choose the Paladin, otherwise go for the Nightmare" a hundred times on these boards by now. It was the main reason to choose it over a Nightmare; it facilitated the whole looting process. Now, it still does that! But The Noctis does it better. So ... for those returning in a dedicated salvager after the mission is complete anyway, they'll be doing it in a Noctis and the reason to fly a marauder over a faction bs for its tractor bonuses are kind of null and void. (At least in the case of a Pally. Not sure if the other marauders have a better faction bs equivalent in the dps department).
Narisa Bithon	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:14:00 - [48] i can see the noctis making marauders become a rare sight in the near future. why bother train for a marauder when a faction bs would do just as good. and u can have your alt follow and salvage in a noctis
Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:21:00 - [49] Edited by: Bill O''Really on 18/09/2010 00:22:04 Originally by: Mara Rinn You're doing it wrong. Besides, if you have wrecks spread out that far, a Noctis isn't going to make life any easier for you. I think you misunderstand me: sitting in the middle of that 120 km cloud means having wrecks up to 60 km's out around you. Simple maths. Most of them within the 40km tractor range though. Except for the final spawn with the highest bounty rats which have a really distant orbit. Anyway, if you like waiting for BS's slowboating your way 20-40 km's until they are in range of your pulses, you are free to do so. ^_^ Often I find myself doing just that: waiting for rats to come just a little closer so I can tractor in their wrecks. Now I don't need to anymore. And I don't need to fly a bs with tractors either. See my point? ~~Paladin~~ v.s. Nightmare
P1SS0NCCP	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:34:00 - [50] Edited by: P1SS0NCCP on 18/09/2010 00:34:33 Originally by: Bill O'Really Edited by: Bill O''Really on 18/09/2010 00:22:04 Originally by: Mara Rinn You're doing it wrong. Besides, if you have wrecks spread out that far, a Noctis isn't going to make life any easier for you. I think you misunderstand me: sitting in the middle of that 120 km cloud means having wrecks up to 60 km's out around you. Simple maths. Most of them within the 40km tractor range though. Except for the final spawn with the highest bounty rats which have a really distant orbit. Anyway, if you like waiting for BS's slowboating your way 20-40 km's until they are in range of your pulses, you are free to do so. ^_^ Often I find myself doing just that: waiting for rats to come just a little closer so I can tractor in their wrecks. Now I don't need to anymore. And I don't need to fly a bs with tractors either. See my point? ~~Paladin~~ v.s. Nightmare Prehaps you should consider using a nother ship wonderfully designed with loving care by CCP, the Orca. It has both a generous tank (<3 u ccp) and a vaste tractor beam range.

Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:39:00 - [51] Originally by: P1SS0NCCP Edited by: P1SS0NCCP on 18/09/2010 00:34:33 Originally by: Bill O'Really Edited by: Bill O''Really on 18/09/2010 00:22:04 Originally by: Mara Rinn You're doing it wrong. Besides, if you have wrecks spread out that far, a Noctis isn't going to make life any easier for you. I think you misunderstand me: sitting in the middle of that 120 km cloud means having wrecks up to 60 km's out around you. Simple maths. Most of them within the 40km tractor range though. Except for the final spawn with the highest bounty rats which have a really distant orbit. Anyway, if you like waiting for BS's slowboating your way 20-40 km's until they are in range of your pulses, you are free to do so. ^_^ Often I find myself doing just that: waiting for rats to come just a little closer so I can tractor in their wrecks. Now I don't need to anymore. And I don't need to fly a bs with tractors either. See my point? ~~Paladin~~ v.s. Nightmare Prehaps you should consider using a nother ship wonderfully designed with loving care by CCP, the Orca. It has both a generous tank (<3 u ccp) and a vaste tractor beam range. Can it fit 4 x tractor and 4 x salvager? :)
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:41:00 - [52] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Gravemind GER Originally by: Joe SMASH Originally by: Gravemind GER http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=797 The New (Ninja)Looter of the Carebears? Discuss. Actually, this is perfect ANTI-ninja salvager/looter ship. Look at the insane tractor range. Since ninjas cannot tractor your wrecks, that bonus is worthless to them. However if you have a dedicated salvager pilot who follows you in missions, then that guy can clean up without moving on most missions. Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors, then faster cycling salvagers means your salvage pilot will pop a wreck faster. If anything, this is a direct response to all the whining about ninjas. That said... I love the Primae hull and I cannot wait to fly this. Awesome job CCP. there were whine threads about people who ever wanted this kind of shiptype now they get it. As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good. This ship is crap for ninja looters . For mission runners on the other hand... It'll be funny watching ninja looters rushing 80 km to grab loot that the Noctis can grab while standing still. Now all we need is a ninja looter emo-rage-quit thread and it'll all be so sweet . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:41:00 - [53] Originally by: Osiris Heart Originally by: Osiris Heart Does anybody know what the size of this ship is? I mean will this ship allowed to enter into all mission pockets or it going to be restricted for it as it is restricted for BC, BS and bigger ships? CCP Greyscale, I believe you are confident to answer this question, so could you, please? It's the size of a battlecruiser, but is classified by the game as an industrial. So if your iteron can use the gate, so can the Noctis. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:42:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Verone So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? We did consider Marauders during the design for the Noctis, and we don't feel like the two ships overlap particularly. The only obvious scenario where a Marauder is now markedly less useful is where you're dual-boxing a PvE site that has no additional spawns or risk of aggro switches. We feel that this constitutes a sufficiently small subset of a Marauder's common use cases that it's not a significant issue. (Based on the assumption that if you're PVEing in a Marauder, you shouldn't be experiencing a significant lag between final NPC killed and final wreck salvaged.) It's the cargo space that makes Marauders annoying to use for salvaging and looting, even without counting ammo. Using a Hurricane with all cargo expanders and cargo rigs gives you just enough to indisciminantly loot everything in even the largest L4s. Can also fit a Battleship AB to a Hurricane because it has enough powergrid, which more than makes up for any tractor range bonus the marauder or noctis have. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
P1SS0NCCP	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:42:00 - [55] I do not actually know. As I do not mine (which is reportedly a wonderful feature designed by the great CCP) that I have not actually tried the orca out.
Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:55:00 - [56] /me is of to bed regretting having trained marauders I'm going to suicide gank Noctii to compensate my loss of SP. For every 100k invested in my marauder skill, a Noctis must die! (looking at EFT and guesstimating it those buggers should be able to get a buffer well over 25k EHP though, but there will be loads of people flying cardboard fits anyway (if it isn't too expensive). Originally by: P1SS0NCCP I do not actually know. As I do not mine (which is reportedly a wonderful feature designed by the great CCP) that I have not actually tried the orca out. According to EFT it has 3 highslots so it doesn't really compare. Noctis also get a cycle time bonus.
P1SS0NCCP	Posted - 2010.09.18 00:58:00 - [57] Sorry for the misleading info. Unlike CCP moderators who know an inifinte amount regarding the game and 100% accurate with thier information, I am simply a fallible human.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.09.18 01:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Bill O'Really /me is of to bed regretting having trained marauders Mine is fitted for PvP, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll ever be used for such. Have no trouble plowing through L4s in a Hyperion, and it's much, much, cheaper to lose if i ever do something stupid. But so far i've only ever lost one, when some new guy in corp asked for help with a mission, and after i used the gate to warp in discovered it was an L5, much to my dismay. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Ela Hako	Posted - 2010.09.18 04:30:00 - [59] Edited by: Ela Hako on 18/09/2010 04:31:09 If you want to play with it in EFT: http://eve-files.com/dl/229665 Backup your eft\Data\Skills.dat and Ships.dat file and overwrite them with the contents of this file
Rovan Stargazer Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.18 05:32:00 - [60] I'm still 40 days (alltogether) of training away from golem. And i was planing using it more or less just for missions. Soo should i scrap it and take CNR? :)

Gravemind GER Caldari Pyromaniac Legion	Posted - 2010.09.18 06:22:00 - [61] Edited by: Gravemind GER on 18/09/2010 06:22:19 Originally by: Rovan Stargazer I'm still 40 days (alltogether) of training away from golem. And i was planing using it more or less just for missions. Soo should i scrap it and take CNR? :) Raven < Tengu < CNR < Golem go golem buddy, they are just talking about the paladin vs. nightmare.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.09.18 06:35:00 - [62] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 17/09/2010 23:32:35 Horses for courses, I guess. The ~30-60s you lose up front waiting for your first aggro group to close range is IMO more than compensated for by the ~10 minutes you save on total mission time (acceptance to acceptance) by not salvaging on the back end. YMMV, obviously Edit: I've had extensive arguments with CCP Ytterbium about Megas vs Tachs at sub-40k ranges, and I think it really comes down to how many BS are coming in to Megapulse multi range. I'm open to the idea that Tachs might give you a better overall DPS profile in the 0-40k engagement area, but I don't buy the argument for engaging above 40k if you're optimizing for income per time unit. The efficiency gains from being able to go from completion straight into the next mission, with full loot and salvage, are too big to pass up IMO. well can we get 60km tractors on Marauders for Christmas then in my paladin I kill most stuff outside of tractor range, 40-50km is pretty much the sweet spot for killing. And well If I'm sitting there not shooting I'm losing money, waiting around to loot/salvage all them cruiser wrecks is just a waste of time. I cherry pick the battleship wrecks that end up inside tractor range. on another note have you guys looked at the completion times that are being reported lately? tl;dr megapulse is for chumps waiting 1min for npcs to get closer is adding anywhere from 5-10% to my mission complete times.
Abulurd Boniface Gallente 0ccam's Razor Industries	Posted - 2010.09.18 07:23:00 - [63] The Noctis is a great addition to the inventory. It would have been a shame to not use the Primae hull for anything other than merely collecting ore from a planet's custom's office. I don't see a problem with ships having very specialized roles. Our PvP friends want to do everything in combat ships. Mining in combat ships, salvaging in combat ships, hauling things in combat ships. To me this is an indication that they are deathly afraid of having to undock in a ship without guns. The carebear is universally derided because you have to be a real coward to fly a ship without guns against specialized ordnance delivery vectors. That's how these things work in the great wild outdoors of New Eden. Rude hollering and wild applause to CCP for creating yet another fine space frame! Thank you!! For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
Creiter	Posted - 2010.09.18 07:50:00 - [64] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 17/09/2010 21:42:27 Originally by: Creiter 2. Whoa! (price) Excuse me ? What "whoa" ? At current mineral prices, it's going to sell for under 50 mil in a week after release or thereabouts, and I'd be surprised if it will sell for more than 35 mil after a couple of months. Price will probably settle at barely over 30 mil, or even less than that if mineral prices keep dropping like expected. I was thinking of just after its released (first thought it was faction LP BPC, until I saw the BPO). Novelty prices do not reflect mineral market. T3 for example on release as close to a billion at release and went steadly down from there. The price will be marketed up in my opinion for the first couple weeks (not a market guru, but some people will try to way over price it), it will have the stigma of "Oh shiny! GANK IT!" like the Primae and Zephyr, and it might even be targeted during Barrel Shoot 4 (up comming hulkeggeddon which comes around every six months). I was considering on getting a BPO myself, but for that price and having to travel through nullsec I can just wait a until its affordable.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.18 08:18:00 - [65] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 17/09/2010 21:42:27 Originally by: Creiter 2. Whoa! (price) Excuse me ? What "whoa" ? At current mineral prices, it's going to sell for under 50 mil in a week after release or thereabouts, and I'd be surprised if it will sell for more than 35 mil after a couple of months. Price will probably settle at barely over 30 mil, or even less than that if mineral prices keep dropping like expected. Yeah my price was horribly wrong. Apologies.
T'Amber Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.18 08:27:00 - [66] Originally by: Stick Cult Originally by: Corozan Aspinall As long as the Ninjas can use them against the bears wrecks before he can .. its all good. They won't. Tractor bonuses will be useless, has 300 CPU, and only goes 150-ish m/s. If you're ninja-ing, you want something faster, and that can fit combat probes better. Considering it will take longer to lock wrecks than a megathron and coupled with its CPU/ Speed I don't see too much ninja-ing in these ships. -T'amber [SoE:X]
Misanth Reaper Industries Asset Liberation Front.	Posted - 2010.09.18 08:31:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Verone So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? We did consider Marauders during the design for the Noctis, and we don't feel like the two ships overlap particularly. The only obvious scenario where a Marauder is now markedly less useful is where you're dual-boxing a PvE site that has no additional spawns or risk of aggro switches. We feel that this constitutes a sufficiently small subset of a Marauder's common use cases that it's not a significant issue. (Based on the assumption that if you're PVEing in a Marauder, you shouldn't be experiencing a significant lag between final NPC killed and final wreck salvaged.) Seems spot on. I can't see this new ship competing with Marauders, not when you salvage on the fly. The difference would be for the people who fit 3 tractors and use salvage alt/dualbox (or come back after the mission). For a 2 tractor 1 salvager, or 1 tractor 2 salvager Marauder, this new ship won't affect them at all. And tbh, I don't see the point of dualboxing a salvage ship, when the major benefit of the Marauder is the mix of shoot/salvage that makes PvE less tedious. Not to mention you can use your other monitor(s) for PvP at the same time. (or other carebearing activities, if that floats your boat) - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.18 08:44:00 - [68] Edited by: Bill O''Really on 18/09/2010 08:44:19 Originally by: Joe SMASH Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors Shouldn't that be a 12 km per level bonus? 20 km + 5 x 60% standard range = 20km + 5 x 12 km = 80 km tractor range Or is it cumulative? 20 km + 60% +60% +60% +60% +60% = 224 km lol, guess not Or am I doing it wrong? What will its tractor range be?
Firion Corodix	Posted - 2010.09.18 10:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Bill O'Really Edited by: Bill O''Really on 18/09/2010 08:44:19 Originally by: Joe SMASH Fully skilled to ORE Industrial V, you should get 60km out of tractors Shouldn't that be a 12 km per level bonus? 20 km + 5 x 60% standard range = 20km + 5 x 12 km = 80 km tractor range Or is it cumulative? 20 km + 60% +60% +60% +60% +60% = 224 km lol, guess not Or am I doing it wrong? What will its tractor range be? Considering that the golem has 100% bonus and 40km range, with the 300% bonus at level V it's 80km Very interesting ship :)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.18 10:38:00 - [70] Originally by: Bill O'Really Or am I doing it wrong? What will its tractor range be? 80km. +60% per level → +300% at lvl V → 4× base range. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Bill O'Really	Posted - 2010.09.18 11:09:00 - [71] Alright. I think we can settle on 80 km's then. Already playing around with Nightmare fits in EFT :_: Now if marauders would get a slight buff in the shape of a 60 km total tractor range, I would be more than happy as that would maintain balance and Marauders would still retain most of their appeal :)
Anddeh McNab Matari Department of Gun Control	Posted - 2010.09.18 11:17:00 - [72] Watching alot of you get your panties in a bunch over this has more than brightened my otherwise gloomy day. Can't say I'll be getting one, jumping in a Varg soon(ish) and for the rare occassion I do salvage the dessie is more than enough. With Angels, wrecks are normally within 20-30km as it is. May look into it on an alt though... purely because it's rather shieny.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.09.18 21:37:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP Greyscale The efficiency gains from being able to go from completion straight into the next mission, with full loot and salvage, are too big to pass up IMO. This man has his head on straight. Unless something very drastically changes, you're always going to be better off using an alt to help you actually run the mission (pair of marauders). -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2010.09.18 23:02:00 - [74] Originally by: Bill O'Really Next to that, the Marauder training plan is time intensive and nets you a functionality which you can now get in the form of a sidekick with EVERY missioning boat and this while cross training for a Nightmare opens up a wealth of other ships. Marauders are still the only ships able to run missions, while looting with tractor beam bonus. No change required.
Lylia Lynn	Posted - 2010.09.19 00:18:00 - [75] I'm looking forward to this ship to help clean up corpmates' Havens/Sanctums, but I have to question CCP's naming sense. Two ships using the same basic hull, called "Primae" and "Noctis". That's a bit too close to a certain Latin phrase for my tastes...
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2010.09.19 02:08:00 - [76] Dear CCP, I know we have a love/hate relationship, but I approve of this product and/or service. However, why wait until expansion? Please seed now kkthxbye. Yours truly, Ms Prissypantz
Taladool Minmatar JIta-Hosting	Posted - 2010.09.19 02:40:00 - [77] Cant wait to get one. Though with those stats I don't think it will be a ninja looter. TS3 and TS2 servers for rent, order here
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.09.19 03:30:00 - [78] Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 19/09/2010 03:31:07 Originally by: Lance Fighter not really enough cpu to fit combat probe and useful fits.. That's the idea. It's also possible to pop one of these with a decent PVe ship (as I hoped and suggested in F&I early on). A tank-capable ninja ship (read: last long enough for ninja's buddies to arrive) would be another grief point to missioners. It's important to be able to pop one fast and GTFO especially in when need of that mission target (like the Damsel, for example). A tanking ninja ship would make that quite difficult. Now, CCP, how about an exploration ship? Yeah yeah the Zephyr right? Uh, can we have something that fits hack and arch mods and does not look like a big flying vagina? Thanks.
Icanti	Posted - 2010.09.19 11:12:00 - [79] Salvage market to slump? The easier you make something, the cheaper it gets. I'm looking forward to cheaper rigs though \o/
Elysarian Minmatar Elysarian Corp	Posted - 2010.09.19 12:07:00 - [80] I'm looking forward to this ship tbh, means I can retire my salvage 'Cane (and refit it for other purposes, like dipping my toe in the PVP side of things). ===================================== It smells of spoon! =====================================

Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.09.20 11:12:00 - [81] Time to find a new profession, lol Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.20 11:18:00 - [82] Will we get a ship called 'Jus' as well?
OmniBeton	Posted - 2010.09.21 09:57:00 - [83] We need also t2 version of this ship with covert ops cloak and shield bonus so we could use it for patroling nullsec and salvaging abandoned wrecks
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.21 11:36:00 - [84] Originally by: OmniBeton We need also t2 version of this ship with covert ops cloak and shield bonus so we could use it for patroling nullsec and salvaging abandoned wrecks use a wormhole scanner - salvager alt
sasabor	Posted - 2010.09.21 11:45:00 - [85] Originally by: OmniBeton We need also t2 version of this ship with covert ops cloak and shield bonus so we could use it for patroling nullsec and salvaging abandoned wrecks I probably see a T2 version of this with a bonus to gas harvesting, would be much more usefull than a t2 salvager
lwxsky oli Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.23 03:07:00 - [86] Edited by: lwxsky oli on 23/11/2010 03:11:39 Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 18/09/2010 04:21:55 Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Verone So considering the creation of this ship has basically made one of the Role bonus for the Marauder hulls obsolete, will we see a change in Role bonus for them to something that's actually useful? We did consider Marauders during the design for the Noctis, and we don't feel like the two ships overlap particularly. The only obvious scenario where a Marauder is now markedly less useful is where you're dual-boxing a PvE site that has no additional spawns or risk of aggro switches. We feel that this constitutes a sufficiently small subset of a Marauder's common use cases that it's not a significant issue. (Based on the assumption that if you're PVEing in a Marauder, you shouldn't be experiencing a significant lag between final NPC killed and final wreck salvaged.) It's the cargo space that makes Marauders annoying to use for salvaging and looting, even without counting ammo. Using a Hurricane with all cargo expanders and cargo rigs gives you just enough to indiscriminantly loot everything in even the largest L4s. The Noctis should be similar. Agreed, only reason I'm thinking whether to train for marauder is its cargo hold space. I'm wondering if there's enough room to hold all loots from a mission. Currently I'm using a typhoon fleet issue as my dedicated salvage ship. with 8 cargohold expander 2 in low. It has 4360 cargo space with enough cap boosters to perma run mwd. I always salvage 3 or 4 lvl 4 missions altogether. Seeing the Noctis has 1460 m3 cargo hold, I'm guessing with 3 cargo expander 2s and 3 cargo hold rigs, it will reach nearly 4000 m3 cargo hold. Seems better than my current set up. So with my way of playing, I guess Noctis will be superior than using a marauder. But we'll try and see.


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