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ccp seem under pressure to eliminate 'unused' plex. discuss.

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Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:17:00 - [1] Evidence: 1 In the one econ blog that covered plexs, it was revealed that there is a massive [hundreds of thousands] pile of unused plexes. 2 CCP made plex destructible items. 3 In the dev blog detailing this change, a dev mentioned wanting to make plex seem less 'special' of an item. 4 Recently, an option to exchange plex for a neural remap was tried out on sisi.
Icanti	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:26:00 - [2] I would add to that list, plex for good causes. Not that I am saying it is a bad thing.
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:28:00 - [3] CCP would obviously want there to be a relatively quick turnover of PLEX. The more that are consumed, the more money CCP makes (Plex of Pakistan not included) Personally, quite worried about the move to plex for remaps (I'd probably use it tho), as it hints at a move towards microtransactions
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:38:00 - [4] Edited by: Estel Arador on 19/09/2010 13:39:18 How do you justify the leap from "allowing more uses for PLEX" to "trying to eliminate unused PLEX", especially "being under pressure to eliminate unused PLEX"? I'm sure there's an accountant somewhere claiming all those unused PLEX are a liability, but if they really want to eliminate unused PLEX, all they have to do is put an expiry date on them. Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users!
volhar	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Estel Arador Edited by: Estel Arador on 19/09/2010 13:39:18 I'm sure there's an accountant somewhere claiming all those unused PLEX are a liability, but if they really want to eliminate unused PLEX, all they have to do is put an expiry date on them. Yeah, that'd go over well
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:46:00 - [6] good point estel. unfortunately that would definitely bring the problem to a head: they would experience a few quarters where their player base expanded while their revenue dwindled.
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Alice Celadon good point estel. unfortunately that would definitely bring the problem to a head: they would experience a few quarters where their player base expanded while their revenue dwindled. So how did you make the leap from "allowing more uses for PLEX" to "being under pressure to eliminate unused PLEX"? I'm curious why the second interpretation would be favoured over the first.
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:52:00 - [8] More uses for PLEX is a Good Thing. Some players really want to do everything without spending real world cash. Allowing us to transfer, remap, etc. will get more PLEX used ... which means more long-term cash for CCP. That's what they want, yes?
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.19 13:56:00 - [9] Because the first interpretation sounds like a fluffy PR throwaway we'll be hearing in an upcoming dev blog and the second interpretation would neatly explain why currently super-precious dev time is being devoted to plex charity drives, a change to the nature of an ingame item that no player was clamoring for, and an upcoming remap feature that also had no vocal proponents.
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Alice Celadon currently super-precious dev time is being devoted to plex charity drives That has happened before, so it's nothing new. Originally by: Alice Celadon a change to the nature of an ingame item that no player was clamoring for, See this CSM request to use PLEX for character portrait change and character transfers. It doesn't list remap, but it does show players want to use PLEX for more than just gametime. Originally by: Alice Celadon and an upcoming remap feature that also had no vocal proponents. The most recent thread about this on the Skills forum section is less than one month old. They pop up quite regularly. Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users!

Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Estel Arador Originally by: Alice Celadon currently super-precious dev time is being devoted to plex charity drives That has happened before, so it's nothing new. Originally by: Alice Celadon a change to the nature of an ingame item that no player was clamoring for, See this CSM request to use PLEX for character portrait change and character transfers. It doesn't list remap, but it does show players want to use PLEX for more than just gametime. Originally by: Alice Celadon and an upcoming remap feature that also had no vocal proponents. The most recent thread about this on the Skills forum section is less than one month old. They pop up quite regularly. 1 [cynic] If you compare the dev blog chart to the first charity drive, you'll find the excess was already well established.[/cynic] 2 You didn't respond to plex being made destructible -- but that's so obviously not something the players wanted that I think we can just omit it. 3 Your point about players wanting the plex to replace currently established revenue streams [character trade, portrait], and ccp balking at that and instead pursuing the current course pretty much illustrates my entire point about what's going on. 4 What is your motivation for schilling for CCP? Or are you just ignoring common knowledge and sentiment because you like "winning" pitched battles?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:27:00 - [12] Alice, are you perhaps Glenn Beck's alt ? First off, PLEX were always destructible All that changed was the ability to move them in a position to be destroyed by OTHER people than yourself. If a directive existed to create more ways in which PLEX could be used up, how would that be a bad thing ?!? Sure, you might personally not quite agree with the particular ways in which they channel their ideas about their uses, but overall, making them able to be used to more game-related "luxury" services is overall not really such a bad thing. So what IF you would be completely and utterly right ? I mean, god forbid a company that's still paying off its bank loan debts would attempt to minimize the amount of liabilities, we can't possibly have that in a game that's all about sociali... oh, wait a second, wasn't the game about capitalism ? Ah, no, right, HYPERcapitalism. Right-o... carry on. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Alice Celadon 2 You didn't respond to plex being made destructible -- but that's so obviously not something the players wanted that I think we can just omit it. Sorry I didn't understand you were referring to that. Not only were PLEX made destructible, they were also made moveable; they became more of a normal item, and it fits with EVE being a game with consequences. Anyone who wants to - for whatever reason - can undock in Jita with 74 PLEX in their cargohold, just like anyone who wants to sit with their supercarrier on a gate waiting to get ganked. Originally by: Alice Celadon 3 Your point about players wanting the plex to replace currently established revenue streams [character trade, portrait], and ccp balking at that and instead pursuing the current course pretty much illustrates my entire point about what's going on. Again this is more interpretation than fact. CCP has not denied the CSM request, so I don't see how they're "balking" at it. Perhaps they'll introduce this at the same time as the PLEX for remap option, but only the latter has been glimpsed by players yet since it's more obvious? Originally by: Alice Celadon What is your motivation for schilling for CCP? I get paid 1M isk for every word I post in their defence. Originally by: Alice Celadon Or are you just ignoring common knowledge and sentiment because you like "winning" pitched battles? I battle ignorance and faulty reasoning wherever I encounter it. Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users!
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:33:00 - [14] oh, i seem to have given the wrong impression. i'm of the mind that ccp should have launched a much fiercer campaign with even fruitier gimmicks [twenty paint jobs for ships/plex, advertise corp on eve-o, etc] to cleanse the plex problem a long time ago. i like the game and want ccp to make tons of money. i also want them to plan ahead and be a little smarter so they don't have to make sudden drastic game changes to stay afloat.
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:39:00 - [15] 74 destroyed PLEXes already exceeds what would have been my a priori estimate for the annual losses. Regardless, the number will be, relative speaking, quite small. (Albeit not to the people who lost them) There are far easier ways to consume far more PLEXes: Power-of-2 promotions, spend 12 PLEXes, get 13 months time, etc. - would consume far more PLEXes than a few getting lost in transit. A deal where 12 PLEXes get you a new account and at the end CCP waives the $20 to transfer back to an account in your name, etc.
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Estel Arador I battle ignorance and faulty reasoning wherever I encounter it. I suppose that it's merely the consequence of solid education and exceptional breeding that that wherever is an entirely external quantity.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Alice Celadon oh, i seem to have given the wrong impression. very _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.19 14:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Alice Celadon I suppose that it's merely the consequence of solid education and exceptional breeding that that wherever is an entirely external quantity. I don't think I said that, you might be reading a bit too much into it again. I'm happy to be proven wrong (or even prove myself wrong - it happens), if proper reasoning/evidence is used. Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users!
Biocross	Posted - 2010.09.19 17:50:00 - [19] This makes no sense. More uses for Plex is good, and if its things you can use plex for then its not microtransactions, but rather a way to pay in game (say, 300 mill) for certain things (like a remap). The plex are not a liability as long as CCP is smart with their money, let's not forget that every single plex out there was bought and paid for someone with real cash, a lot of it, with the sole intent to provide extra funds to their characters with real money. Thus each plex out there is actually funds for CCP that it would otherwise not have and that would have gone to the RMT suppliers as does in other games. I would think CCP would want MORE plex to be around for that reason, not less. I would disagree completely with them using it for microtransactions though, but as long as its an item that can be bought via ISK, I don't see the problem. If CCP came out and said "we are going to charge 300 mill for remaps" I doubt anyone would care, for instance. And really, each hoarded plex (as a ward for inflation, or for whatever reason) is a plex out of circulation that CCP doesn't have to worry about. As long as they keep tracks of where their revenue is coming from, they won't have a problem.
PureMurder	Posted - 2010.09.19 17:59:00 - [20] Edited by: PureMurder on 19/09/2010 17:59:59 This is kinda neat. In the event of a plex being donated, the seller (shattered crystal or whatever) still gets their cut as an added admin cost to charity. Sucks, but it's probably outweighed by the number of people that would donate plex vs $. FWIW I think CCP has a policy now that allows them to stop running the game at almost any time and therefore the plexes aren't really a liability. Is this correct? edit: also, plex is good for deflation due to transaction costs, but it may encourage people to make more stuff and therefore could add to inflation. not sure there.

PureMurder	Posted - 2010.09.19 18:08:00 - [21] Edited by: PureMurder on 19/09/2010 18:08:46 Originally by: Akita T First off, PLEX were always destructible All that changed was the ability to move them in a position to be destroyed by OTHER people than yourself. I hate to nitpick such a helpful poster, but just curious, how has the rate of plex destruction changed since they were allowed in space? I'd be surprised if a lot were being destroyed beforehand (though I'm also surprised if there's a lot destroyed currently). Anyways, from a practical side, if the numbers are significantly different I'd say that would invalidate that argument. Soapbox: I'd like to see plexes become an item that you need to use in-station, at the same station as the plex.
egola	Posted - 2010.09.20 01:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Akita T Alice, are you perhaps Glenn Beck's alt ? oh, wait a second, wasn't the game about capitalism ? Ah, no, right, HYPERcapitalism. Right-o... carry on. Best line i've ever heard in MD......can i enshrine that as my bio or a sig?
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.09.20 12:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Alice Celadon 1 In the one econ blog that covered plexs, it was revealed that there is a massive [hundreds of thousands] pile of unused plexes. Conveniently ignoring the major contributor to the surplus of PLEX which was the PLEX-for-Fanfest offer, during which the price of PLEX skyrocketed - thus everyone was on a run to exchange real money for PLEX and thus ISK. Then the PLEX for Fanfest offer stopped, the price of PLEX bottomed out. During the offer I recall prices as high as 480M ISK per PLEX, shortly after the offer finished PLEX were somewhere around 250M ISK. Quote: 2 CCP made plex destructible items. 3 In the dev blog detailing this change, a dev mentioned wanting to make plex seem less 'special' of an item. The reason was plainly given - why should PLEX be a special item? One item that acts differently from all the others requires special coding. It's bad enough that some ships can't dock, and PLEX are already a special case in that they can be redeemed for game time. More special cases for items is more code to maintain. Quote: 4 Recently, an option to exchange plex for a neural remap was tried out on sisi. More things to use PLEX on means there will be more demand for PLEX, which means they become worth more, which means more people will buy PLEX with RL money. The PLEX for Fanfest offer proved that PLEX sales will skyrocket when the price exceeds about 380M ISK. For folks looking to boost their ingame currency reserves, selling a PLEX for 400M ISK is easy money. I wouldn't say that CCP is under pressure to eliminate 'unused' PLEX so much as they've realised they can introduce PLEX as a token for a microtransaction economy and make a killing. Me, I wouldn't pay $20 for a remap sooner than 12 months allows - but if we could buy a remap at any time for a PLEX, I'd be all over that offer like a bad rash. My only question for CCP is whether their microtransaction economy (which I guess doesn't really class as "micro" when you're talking about trading in PLEX) will extend to ingame items or merely game-enriching services. A remap is as close to an ingame item as I'd like to see CCP offering in return for PLEX. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Fractal Muse	Posted - 2010.09.20 13:50:00 - [24] Alice, You never did explain how you made the leap to CCP being under pressure to move plex. Who would be pressuring CCP?
clixoras	Posted - 2010.09.20 13:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Fractal Muse Alice, You never did explain how you made the leap to CCP being under pressure to move plex. Who would be pressuring CCP? funny you ask this. This being MD and all.
Berikath	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Mara Rinn My only question for CCP is whether their microtransaction economy (which I guess doesn't really class as "micro" when you're talking about trading in PLEX) will extend to ingame items or merely game-enriching services. A remap is as close to an ingame item as I'd like to see CCP offering in return for PLEX. /agree. That said, I think a PLEX for an immediate remap is a reasonable option; you'll get free remaps on a regular schedule so it isn't something otherwise completely unavailable, and no matter how often you remap you can't actually gain skillpoints faster than would be theoretically possible with 1 remap a year (unless you run out of skills you remap'd your attributes for I guess... o.0) Though.... you know, I could see trading PLEXes for certain ingame items. For instance, 1 PLEX for 1 non-functional otherwise-removed legacy item (mobile refining?). *** Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle!
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:06:00 - [27] Go read page two of the other thread in md on the remap topic. People brought out various reasons why ccp would want to get rid of unused plex there.
Utemetsu Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:09:00 - [28] This sort of sensationalist thread posting is exactly why the economy is in the dookbowl. Firstly, let's examine your "Evidence" Originally by: Alice Celadon Evidence: 1 In the one econ blog that covered plexs, it was revealed that there is a massive [hundreds of thousands] pile of unused plexes. All this is evidence of is that there is a massive [hundreds of thousands] amount of PLEX that is unused. Originally by: Alice Celadon 2 CCP made plex destructible items. Again, they did this, but it implies nothing aside from adding a 'danger level' to the product of PLEX. Originally by: Alice Celadon 3 In the dev blog detailing this change, a dev mentioned wanting to make plex seem less 'special' of an item. And they did. By making them destructable. I would even argue that adding an expiration date to a PLEX (the only feasible way to ensure PLEX Turnover) would make the item more special. Originally by: Alice Celadon 4 Recently, an option to exchange plex for a neural remap was tried out on sisi. They've added another function to PLEX to make the item more valuable and perhaps increase use of a product that lacks a sufficient sink to [maybe] bring the PLEX market back to equilibreum. Where you're getting this 'under pressure' nonsense is beyond me. Who would be pressuring CCP? Why would they be pressuring CCP? This is just another possible change for market balancing (much like the veldspar spawn rate change) in a patch sometime in the future, not some communist-inspired liberal scheme to take your money away. So for future reference, it would behoove you to make your thread topic titles a little less sensational. It does no good. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Dzil Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.20 14:56:00 - [29] I've seen a couple suggestions actually requesting the PLEX be more usable towards microtransaction-like services: EON magazine, character trades, EVE-Store, etc. I'm all for it, as the more useful they make PLEX the more IRL benefits someone can achieve with their isk without resorting to game damaging RMT. As for pressure on CCP: well yes, there is a market pressure for them to create PLEX sinks. 1. Every PLEX represents a future liability that some subscriber will NOT be giving them 15 dollars that month. 2. Over supply of PLEX drives down their price, which both encourages more people to use PLEX instead of dollars to pay their account, and simultaneously discourages people from buying GTC with the intent of converting them to isk. Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :)
Rikki Sals Caldari	Posted - 2010.09.20 15:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Akita T Alice, are you perhaps Glenn Beck's alt ?



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