Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I was going over a variety of Fanfest prestentations and there was something that alarmed me. There is way more isk being created than destroyed. I don't know if y'all are aware, but that's a bad thing because the value of currency itself changes over time. There being more money in everyone's pocket makes each unit of currency is worth less and therefore you need more of it in order to buy the same amount of stuff. If your income isn't increasing at the same rate or faster than that process leads to people getting frustrated, poor, and ultimately playing other games.
Currently, money leaves only when paying taxes, skill books, insurance, and fees. The VALUE of the economy is balanced by ship destruction, but no money is lost when a ship explodes. So, the total number of isk doesn't go down, even though that explosion requries some of that isk move around.
So, the point. How do we get rid of the actual isk themselves in a way that doesn't hurt our souls and make us howl with rage? What can we do that allows us to dump hard currency out of circulation entirely that doesn't replace people creating value by their own hard work?
I don't want to sit down and have to suggest isk-shooting gatling cannons. |

Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1143
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
We know... its been this way for years, made worse by Incursions.
Solving this is tricky, because you want a sink that does not effect a specific set of players.
I really don't have any suggestions on improving the isk in vs isk out. Not savvy with economic stuff.
Edit: nevermind, suggestion. NPC sold snowballs. For our snowball launchers. |

Charles Baker
Federal Mineral Acquisition VORTEX RISING
133
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
99 problems but ISK ain't one. |

highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
It is entirely too easy to Rat your way to billions of ISK
Incursions were a pretty bit flow of ISK, but they were a drop in the bucket compared to nullsec ratting.
When you can set a bot to run 10 toons in tengus for you and never violate the EULA you can make tons of ISK.
Or
Just get a corp mate to undock his carrier with max output of fighter drones and go running Anoms all day. All I heard was Blah Blah Blah I'm a dirty *****... |

Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
245
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Obviously the key is to have fewer players.
|

Julius Rigel
31
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gee, I'm glad you decided to put your five minutes of economics education to good use. (Don't quit your day-job.)
Your analysis is lacking a lot of essential data, such as inactive accounts, and any type of numbers what-so-ever. Numbers seem like an important part of an economic analysis. There's hundreds of million of ISK disappearing every day from the Jita market PER ITEM alone. That seems highly relevant.
I'd like to suggest putting a little more effort into your proposal, and basing your claims on actual research, whether it be your own or someone else's. Also, ideas and suggestions shoul be posted in FAID, not GD. Do YOU like to undock? |

Velicitia
Open Designs
1030
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote: Edit: nevermind, suggestion. NPC sold snowballs. For our snowball launchers.
CCP, DO THIS NAO! |

Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
dear OP
I am truly sorry to read you have run out of isk. If you contact me in-game, I will be happy to supply you with one (1) unit of Draeks.
sincerly, Phill GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
|

Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
438
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
When people stop playing their isk no longer matters, even though it is technically still part of the game. The biggest isk sink is the players who leave the game. And lots of players leave. |

A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
I must admit, I'm not doing the number, mostly because the Quarterly Economic Reports and the Fanfest presentations already did those numbers. Honestly, I just want some help brainstorming.
Maybe picking up some amusing comments or something.
It's just that this is a problem and I've been doing a **** poor job of coming up with a solution on my own. |
|

A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Phill Esteen wrote:dear OP
I am truly sorry to read you have run out of isk. If you contact me in-game, I will be happy to supply you with one (1) unit of Draeks.
sincerly, Phill
I have not run out of ISK. Thank you for your concern, but your lack of reading comprehension isn't my problem. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
262
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
A Soporific wrote: Currently, money leaves only when paying taxes, skill books, insurance, and fees.
You forgot to include the 2nd largest ISK sink: LP store... which I'm curious if with the ISK reduction of FW Tier 5 will decrease signiicantly from 6 trillion per month ( http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html )or not. I'm willing to bet Incursions dropped to 1-2 trillion with the Escalation NERF & bounties jumped to 40 trillion... CCP Diagoras still alive out there?
PS: I think an above poster probably hit the nail on the head with the largest ISK sink being inactive accounts, but that is a tuff number to account for given they may come back. Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr soist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
863
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Some growth in the isk supply is needed. It needs to grow in proportion to the total pilots in the game, and it needs to grow as the average pilot gets older. That is the longer you play, in general you need more isk as you can fly more expensive ships and do bigger project.
CCP: what would be interesting to know: Is the average one year old pilot richer now than the average one year old pilot last year, or the year before that? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
DarthNafarious: I knew I had forgotten something, but I doubt that a new level of LP rewards would come anywhere close. I would rather have new mechanics to remove isk from circulation and be a little looser with base income for newer players.
Vincent: Of course you need to scale up, but you don't need an overall increase in the total amount of currency in order to make that happen. You simply need a methodology that allows the transfer of existing currency out of null sec alliances back into new characters, or to leave existing income in place and place new sinks in null sec, so that new players are uneffected by those sinks while they are climbing from newbie ships to cruisers and battleships. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8817
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
highonpop wrote:Incursions were a pretty bit flow of ISK, but they were a drop in the bucket compared to nullsec ratting. No, they really weren't. Incursions generated about Gàô as much ISK as NPC bounties did in total, and those bounties were split between ratting and missions. So depending on how popular you want to assume highsec missions are, incursions generated somewhere between the same and half the amount of nullsec ratting.
That's not a drop in the bucket. It's a massive hose into an overfilled bath tub. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
738
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Make new skins for ships. Make skin application a rig like addition that paints the ship and in turn is lost when ship pops. Paint costs a lot of isk. Screw Aur.
Oh, and nerf insurance more. Make NPC corp tax 50% |

Charles Baker
Federal Mineral Acquisition VORTEX RISING
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Make new skins for ships. Make skin application a rig like addition that paints the ship and in turn is lost when ship pops. Paint costs a lot of isk. Screw Aur.
Oh, and nerf insurance more. Make NPC corp tax 50%
I'd agree to all of that, but instead make Paints be sold for each corporations colour scheme through LP store (with a hefty ISK cost too) I want a Roden Skin for my Megathron damnit! |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
262
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tippia wrote: NPC bounties did in total, and those bounties were split between ratting and missions. So depending on how popular you want to assume highsec missions are, incursions generated somewhere between the same and half the amount of nullsec ratting.
I'd be very curious what the split between bounties for any single month since Inferno release from null/lo/hi sec ( and WH NPC buy orders) CCP Diagoras' vacation from tweets unfortunely will be 2 months on the 4th. Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr soist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |

A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't know how much pressure skins would put on the server. Or, maybe it can be something that's exclusively client side so that you see your own stuff better, but then doesn't effect anything in a big fleet fight.
That's actually a pretty good idea.
I would rather put a higher tax on space-owning alliances than NPC corps, actually. You'd get a great deal money out of the 0.0 alliances, and if you put the onus on the leadership rather than rank and file players we might see more game changing, hillarious alliance collapses more often. |

Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
380
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
The real isk problem, is that Eve has too much and I have too little. You want fries with that? |
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8818
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
A Soporific wrote:I don't know how much pressure skins would put on the server. Four more bytes sent for every ship on grid. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

Alara IonStorm
2773
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
One thing I think CCP should do is they suggested cutting bounties. If they cut a massive amount off the top they should give a tiny bit to the bottom. New Player PvE hasn't been buffed in the same way as the ISK pile on older players get. Reduce crap mobs in Missions and buff the payout of NPC Frigates and Cruisers as well as putting NPC Cruisers in 0.5 / 0.6 belts. Sure up the bottom of the pyramid.
Instead of a straight cut to Bounties I think they could instead decrease the Mission / Anom Rat Spam and increase individual Rat Effectiveness. Missions have a ridiculous amount of NPC's in them.
Also cut out insurance above 3 months olds. Not that big of a sink but a lame NPC Welfare Mechanic non the less. |

Indalecia
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:When people stop playing their isk no longer matters, even though it is technically still part of the game. The biggest isk sink is the players who leave the game. And lots of players leave.
Not according to Jita local. |

Kyra Yaken
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Remove $ for ISK aka PLEX |

Alara IonStorm
2773
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kyra Yaken wrote:Remove $ for ISK aka PLEX PLEX is an ISK Sink. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
863
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
A Soporific wrote:DarthNafarious: I knew I had forgotten something, but I doubt that a new level of LP rewards would come anywhere close. I would rather have new mechanics to remove isk from circulation and be a little looser with base income for newer players.
Vincent: Of course you need to scale up, but you don't need an overall increase in the total amount of currency in order to make that happen. You simply need a methodology that allows the transfer of existing currency out of null sec alliances back into new characters, or to leave existing income in place and place new sinks in null sec, so that new players are uneffected by those sinks while they are climbing from newbie ships to cruisers and battleships.
Odd how half the players say that risk is not equaling reward in that its too easy to make isk in high sec and null is a wasteland, and the other half says null sec is too rich.
You do know that much of alliance wealth in Null comes from selling moon materials, which being a player to player isk transfer does not add any isk to the game, and in fact removes it via taxes? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
767
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
The easiest way to reduce ISK faucets is to reduce NPC bounties and increase NPC drops.
The question is, should it be done? I don't see any convincing arguments in this thread. |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
A Soporific wrote:So, I was going over a variety of Fanfest prestentations and there was something that alarmed me. There is way more isk being created than destroyed. I don't know if y'all are aware, but that's a bad thing because the value of currency itself changes over time. There being more money in everyone's pocket makes each unit of currency is worth less and therefore you need more of it in order to buy the same amount of stuff. If your income isn't increasing at the same rate or faster than that process leads to people getting frustrated, poor, and ultimately playing other games.
Currently, money leaves only when paying taxes, skill books, insurance, and fees. The VALUE of the economy is balanced by ship destruction, but no money is lost when a ship explodes. So, the total number of isk doesn't go down, even though that explosion requries some of that isk move around.
So, the point. How do we get rid of the actual isk themselves in a way that doesn't hurt our souls and make us howl with rage? What can we do that allows us to dump hard currency out of circulation entirely that doesn't replace people creating value by their own hard work?
I don't want to sit down and have to suggest isk-shooting gatling cannons.
Because trading market games are by far the highest isk risk free income you can make in eve and you don't even have to undock your char or train it for years.
Well come to Eve, the almost perfect player driven economy trading system you'll ever met.
Call me when things are about killing spaceships.
brb |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8818
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kyra Yaken wrote:Remove $ for ISK aka PLEX I think the OP's goal was to add things that remove ISK, not get rid of them.
(Top tip: PLEX don't create ISK GÇö they make ISK go away through taxes and trading fees.) GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2055
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Raise the price of sov.
*duck and cover* The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |