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A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
8
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Posted - 2012.07.30 20:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
So, progress. Skins as a new sink and the shifting of "upstream" to reduce the income from end-game ratting but boost the income from beginning ratting. I like these ideas, and feel that they would help some even if they aren't a comprehension solution.
Vincent: That's becuase there are different visions for the future of EVE. Those who are the most interested in encouraging as many people as possible into PVP want to push players into Null Sec believe that Null Sec is a barren wasteland in comparison and want high security space to lose some of its edge so that more people would be encouraged into Null Sec making the game better for them. Then there are people for whom Null Sec doesn't really hold much allure, be it a history of betrayal or weak corporations or a general disinterest in PVP or the reward just not being there for the risk they will be forced to put up with. They don't care about the health of Null Sec and simply want the place where they can live to be better, thus making the game better for them.
What we need to do is both. Give people more compelling reasons to venture into Null Sec without getting int the way of people who have full muddling around High Sec.
Abdiel: I don't believe that's a good move. You're hurting newbies for an end game issue in that respect.
Lin: That is a valid position, but I'm not attempting to discuss market games. |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP really should make ISK to AUR transactions easier and skip the PLEX step. The Nex shop in theory could help get rid of ISK. Also I have not followed DUST news, but imagine that excess ISK can go there. |
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
8
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Posted - 2012.07.30 20:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyra Yaken wrote:Remove $ for ISK aka PLEX I think the OP's goal was to add things that remove ISK, not get rid of them. (Top tip: PLEX don't create ISK GÇö they make ISK go away through taxes and trading fees.)
You are corect. New ways to get rid of currency is what I'm trying to brainstorm.
PLEX is an elegant system because it simply moves ISK around while gets CCP paid, no ISK is created. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1514
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Julius Rigel wrote:There's hundreds of million of ISK disappearing every day from the Jita market PER ITEM alone.
really now
EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
My bank charge me few bucks every month for having account with them. + they charge per transaction, + for incoming money, + for issuing new cards. I pay them so they could earn interest on my money.
Could be fun to see something like that in EVE. Can't imagine amount of outrage among players who will see their funds decreased while accounts were inactive. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1514
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:highonpop wrote:Incursions were a pretty bit flow of ISK, but they were a drop in the bucket compared to nullsec ratting. No, they really weren't. Incursions generated about Gàô as much ISK as NPC bounties did in total, and those bounties were split between ratting and missions. So depending on how popular you want to assume highsec missions are, incursions generated somewhere between the same and half the amount of nullsec ratting. That's not a drop in the bucket. It's a massive hose into an overfilled bath tub.
and the players generating ISK from bounties far, far outnumber those running incursions
EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1514
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:My bank charge me few bucks every month for having account with them. + they charge per transaction, + for incoming money, + for issuing new cards. I pay them so they could earn interest on my money.
Could be fun to see something like that in EVE. Can't imagine amount of outrage among players who will see their funds decreased while accounts were inactive.
your bank sucks hth
EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Alara IonStorm
2773
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
They could try removing tag spam from the LP Store. Most the items that cost tags tend not to be bought while Pirate versions are everywhere. Lots of people just plain decline tag missions do to standing loss.
Make it straight ISK and you'll probably see more of those items.
|
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Of Mordor
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Raise the price of sov.
*duck and cover*
"raise the rent on pets" "ask more for moon goo"
ok maybe a good idea |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar
Intrepid Crossing
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Better to add sinks than reduce faucets. 100M per attribute remap? Drop in the bucket I know but every little helps.
I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:My bank charge me few bucks every month for having account with them. + they charge per transaction, + for incoming money, + for issuing new cards. I pay them so they could earn interest on my money.
Could be fun to see something like that in EVE. Can't imagine amount of outrage among players who will see their funds decreased while accounts were inactive.
What bank do you have?
I just want to make sure that I never to business with them. Might I suggest a Credit Union?
Alara: I have to say that Tags are important, and should not be removed. But maybe allowing you to buy the tags could have a similar effect. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8818
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Julius Rigel wrote:There's hundreds of million of ISK disappearing every day from the Jita market PER ITEM alone. really now Let's seeGǪ
Assuming an average of half-skilled traders for a final tax of 1%, meaning 10bn worth of stuff needs to be sold.
O, hai Invuln Field II GÇö 1.8M a pop with a volume peaking at 6.5k units = 11.7bn traded = 117M ISK removed in taxes. 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Julius Rigel wrote:There's hundreds of million of ISK disappearing every day from the Jita market PER ITEM alone. really now Let's seeGǪ Assuming an average of half-skilled traders for a final tax of 1%, meaning 10bn worth of stuff needs to be sold. O, hai Invuln Field II GÇö 1.8M a pop with a volume peaking at 6.5k units = 11.7bn traded = 117M ISK removed in taxes.
Taxes are the primary method for removing isk from the game. However, it's failing to keep pace with the amount of isk coming in from other sources. Simply increasing the tax rate does not promise to be a solution, so any other ideas? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
262
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
A Soporific wrote:
Taxes are the primary method for removing isk from the game.
You are very wrong http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html
They are 1/6 the primary & 1/3 the secondary ISK sinks from numbers provided by CCP Diagoras from last February.
The shadowy, ephemeral inactive account ISK sink probably pushes it back farther
Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr soist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
For some values of taxes, I was imprecise with my terms and used a different break down than the official. All of this is largely irrelevant to the topic at hand, is it not? I'm not attempting a polemic, simply asking for other perspectives and ideas. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
262
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Sort of an out there idea:
Hiring NPCs to patrol around your POS's would be an interesting ISK sink.
Dunno if it'd be very popular though unless you could purchase them in extreme game breaking amounts though.
Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr soist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
167
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
How about exponentially bigger optional ISK sinks.
Since they are optional, unlike market tax, the newbies are not penalized by the high-and-ever-increasing costs.
It would be probably better to make these alliance-oriented ISK sinks.
The rewards must remain linear, just like training skill points, but the ISK grows exponentially for each extra 5% better something else. It also makes the investment that much more valuable when destroyed.
I'm talking about things like officer-fit sov mods, bonuses, fleet boosts, sov upgrades, etc. |
Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
17
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Posted - 2012.07.30 21:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Planetary taxes in non player owned POCO's and other PI functions took isk out of your wallet. Maybe expand in the variety of Planetary constructions that one can perform and work upon? Would be interesting to see, though it's probably not the best of ideas. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Charles Baker wrote:99 problems but ISK ain't one.
True... over any of that, I'd take LP transfer between factions anytime! |
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
8
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Posted - 2012.07.30 21:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pay for Play High Sec and Low Sec NPC Police? Like double cost vs. reward for destruction and a standing hit?
I don't know... It's an idea but it need way more to make it viable. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1516
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Julius Rigel wrote:There's hundreds of million of ISK disappearing every day from the Jita market PER ITEM alone. really now Let's seeGǪ Assuming an average of half-skilled traders for a final tax of 1%, meaning 10bn worth of stuff needs to be sold. O, hai Invuln Field II GÇö 1.8M a pop with a volume peaking at 6.5k units = 11.7bn traded = 117M ISK removed in taxes.
i thought he was assuming that everything in jita is npc seeded or something silly like that
EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc
En Garde
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 22:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
What about fitting fees?
Think of the people (or equipment) that has to fit your ships. It could cost something.
Note that it should be a minimal amount to not offset the number of refits but seeing as how often we do change fittings it could easily prove to be a decent ISK sink perhaps. |
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
9
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Posted - 2012.07.30 22:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fitting fees would sink a lot of isk, but it'd be a constant annoyance and might cripple newbies. I'm not particularly happy with that idea. Maybe something more optional. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1567
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 22:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Add a 300m charge to post on the forums... per post...
Maybe then us space rich types can have a pleasant conversation without the riff raff joining in.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Jett0
Surface Warfare
Tribal Band
218
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 23:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tippia wrote:A Soporific wrote:I don't know how much pressure skins would put on the server. Four more bytes sent for every ship on grid.
How do you figure that? (Seriously, I'm curious.)
And how much is that in terms of overall performance? Would it start to add up, or be barely noticeable?
Occasionally plays sober |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1567
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 23:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:Tippia wrote:A Soporific wrote:I don't know how much pressure skins would put on the server. Four more bytes sent for every ship on grid. How do you figure that? (Seriously, I'm curious.) And how much is that in terms of overall performance? Would it start to add up, or be barely noticeable?
Tippia is guessing, it would depend on implementation. But essentially all you would need to send is a small amount of data detailing what skin to use, how small would depend on the number of available skins and configurations (e.g. showing corp logo or not showing corp logo).
Loading corp logos more often might add a tiny bit more lag, but even they are made up in game and I guess can be stored in a pretty tiny amount of data. Alliance logos would probably be an issue in places like Jita, since they are custom images. Maybe.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
foxnod
BOAE INC
Red Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 23:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Increase the cost to start a new corp from 2mil to 200mil. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1567
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 23:23:00 -
[58] - Quote
foxnod wrote:Increase the cost to start a new corp from 2mil to 200mil.
That would probably actually be a good idea. I swear those noob corps are terrible for rookies. You know, the corps started by rookies that try to get other rookies to join? You always have the stereotypical terribad high sec CEO pretending he knows what he's doing and it always ends in tears.
Anything that discourages them and raises taxes can't be bad, hopefully at least some rookies would end up in real corps instead.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8828
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 23:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:[How do you figure that? (Seriously, I'm curious.) 1000 skins per ship = 10 bits + 22 option flags = 32 bits total = 4 bytes. 
GǪbut that's just for the simplest and most na+»ve implementationGÇö more intricate stuff would require more (e.g. pre-defined colour patches = 3 bytes per patch).
Quote:And how much is that in terms of overall performance? In a 1k vs 1k fight, it would be another 8kB each clients needs to receive and process as they load the grid (or 16MB more for the server to send). The bigger problem would probably be for the gfx card to set up all those different objects, rather than copy-paste the same 10 instances all over the screen GÇö not that it would necessarily slow things down all that much, but it would require a bit more care and consideration in designing the shaders. Also, if it made use of actual skins, the memory requirements could quickly turn ugly.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 23:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
When i read the title of this post i was thinking a other troll/QQ and i was try to post /facepalm but some of your post are good even infact lets not do the /facepalm post but i keep it openmind for this one. |
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