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Hennata
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Posted - 2010.09.24 21:47:00 -
[1]
With all the drake armies running around, is dedicated shield repping carriers useful as opposed to POS duty? Can people bring caldari caps to an alliance and not get the "lolcarebear" stare?
Or does the sheer number of Nyx/Aeon that exists means fleet warfare still revolve around armor even if a side don't have the pilots to throw >100 zealots on grid?
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.24 21:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Irae Ragwan on 24/09/2010 21:52:23 Supercaps obsolete caps. Drakes aren't usually worth dropping supercaps on. But, if you bothered to bring a bunch of chims on a drake raid i assure you that you'll find out what the recieving end of Nyx-**** feels like.
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icecooljon
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.09.30 17:05:00 -
[3]
Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump. Surely this is a sign that they are too easy to get hold of when they're dropped on a fleet of BC's/BS's
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.10.01 00:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: icecooljon Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump. Surely this is a sign that they are too easy to get hold of when they're dropped on a fleet of BC's/BS's
No, you just took a pretty obvious bait. They would have dropped them on whatever happened to come along, even if it was a fleet of mining ibises. Nothing personal in that. Be glad you made them waste supercaps deployment on a small fleet. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
d00m2
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Posted - 2010.10.01 02:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hennata With all the drake armies running around, is dedicated shield repping carriers useful as opposed to POS duty? Can people bring caldari caps to an alliance and not get the "lolcarebear" stare?
Or does the sheer number of Nyx/Aeon that exists means fleet warfare still revolve around armor even if a side don't have the pilots to throw >100 zealots on grid?
No. Scorch = Amarr = Armor, therefore there are no shield PvP fleets at the BS level and above.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.01 03:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: d00m2
No. Scorch = Amarr = Armor, therefore there are no shield PvP fleets at the BS level and above.
Torps and Arty could do the job if only the Raven and Tempests sheild tanks could match Ammar armor tanks and Remote Sheild Reps could be fitted!
-- Fine Mag's no Purple ok!
But I am the Snyper Queen!
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Garst Tyrell
No.Mercy
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Posted - 2010.10.01 04:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: icecooljon Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump. Surely this is a sign that they are too easy to get hold of when they're dropped on a fleet of BC's/BS's
No, you just took a pretty obvious bait. They would have dropped them on whatever happened to come along, even if it was a fleet of mining ibises. Nothing personal in that. Be glad you made them waste supercaps deployment on a small fleet.
"made them waste supercap deployment"
im not sure how giving them exactly what they wanted + kills equates to a total waste of the like 250 liquid ozone and pittance of fuel they used
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OneOneZeroOne
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Posted - 2010.10.01 09:56:00 -
[8]
Quote: Scorch = Amarr = Armor
wtf does that mean?
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.01 10:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: OneOneZeroOne
Quote: Scorch = Amarr = Armor
wtf does that mean?
It means Scorch the Ammarian Tech 2 Ammo is etheir rediculously over powered or the only one that works, Barrage isn't bad!
Also Ammar have the best Armor Tanks which are good for PVP right now!
Therefor best combination for large fleets!
-- Fine Mag's no Purple ok!
But I am the Snyper Queen!
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Xpaulusx
Intergalactic Syndicate Galactic Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.01 13:18:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Xpaulusx on 01/10/2010 13:21:08
Originally by: icecooljon Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump. Surely this is a sign that they are too easy to get hold of when they're dropped on a fleet of BC's/BS's
I have to agree on this, example is PL with their 100+ Super Cap Fleet, no talent or tactics involved, just drop a mom blob in system and done. Now i don't have any answers, but this is now outta control. CCP is asleep at the wheel on this.
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Riedle
Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Riedle on 01/10/2010 15:23:23 Liquid Ozone should become a lot more expensive perhaps?
click here |
Xpaulusx
Intergalactic Syndicate Galactic Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Riedle Edited by: Riedle on 01/10/2010 15:23:23 Liquid Ozone should become a lot more expensive perhaps?
That would have an unknown impact on the economy. I was thinking Limiting amounts of Super Caps that can be fielded in anyone system at a time, prolly only answer to this.
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Angus McSpork
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.01 17:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: icecooljon Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump. Surely this is a sign that they are too easy to get hold of when they're dropped on a fleet of BC's/BS's
No, you just took a pretty obvious bait. They would have dropped them on whatever happened to come along, even if it was a fleet of mining ibises. Nothing personal in that. Be glad you made them waste supercaps deployment on a small fleet.
If only there was a way to bait the baiters and (at least try to) kill said Nyx..
But other than that, I too get the sense that PL is just MC 2.0--having such runaway success simply because they have the biggest blob of the biggest ships of their respective days.*
We already know there are alliances/powerblocs that could easily pull the same thing with Titans. However, what would happen to 0.0 then? A stable 0.0 is a boring 0.0..
*(Not to necessarily take away from MC 1.0's or PL's accomplishments. They've certainly influenced EVE's history)
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Scruf McGruff
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Posted - 2010.10.01 19:32:00 -
[14]
Short answer: Yes they're viable, if exclusively for support of a shield BC gang. Would suggest triage to make it worth deploying, because without it, chances are you won't lock the BC's in time anyway (unless you fit tons of sebos which gimps your fit anyway).
It's doable, and still being done, just not as often as armor, for many popular reasons.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.10.01 21:45:00 -
[15]
Shield = more gank due to free low slots, but also means ****ty ship selection and very close range guns or slow missiles
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Liriel Del'Armgo
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.24 08:32:00 -
[16]
There is nothing mechanically or logistically possible that would stop people from getting into a supercapital if they really wanted one. The reason they're so common now is both because of the lowered mineral cost to build them, and the gigantic amount of alliances that can build them. They aren't overpowered strictly on their own, it just makes the bears whine when they can't defend against a fleet that drops eight mommies, thirty carriers and eighty zealots on them and squeal 'OMGWTFHAX.'
Supercaps cost less. Thus, more people can buy them. Even if they still cost 20b per hull, people would still get into them, and there would be a huge number of them.
My only hope is that more carebears start trying to buy them so that they can ask in local while being ganked 'why can't I dock?'
@OP: No. It isn't as easy to get an entire fleet of people into a chimera for a lol-chimera fleet, simply because not everyone either wants to, which is the reason I don't fly one, or that people just want to fly the other carriers. I understand where you're coming from with the 'drake army seems to be effective, etc' argument, but this would not be the same with a chimera fleet, simply because the mechanics of capitals are so different. All that would cause is a number of alliances bringing 80 revelation fleets in to squish the EM weak ships and end it.
Capital warfare will almost always revolve around armor tanking simply because it is much more cost effective and frankly easier to get a very, very sturdy armor tank out of an Aeon (87m ish EHP with Erebus bonuses, slaves and X-types) while the Wyvern ends up with something like 50, maybe 60m with a Leviathan booster.
People love Aeons and Nyxs for these very simple reasons: The Nyx does DPS out the ass, and the Aeon can tank pretty much aything and everything until it gets repped.
Don't get me wrong, shield carriers are still plenty useful in combat, but they just aren't as survivable as an armor tank.
/me waits for the 'Caldari is superior' flame.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.10.24 10:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo Bend over Abigaile May cause HERE COMES THE SUPERCAPS! Hahahaha! We have more isk than you and we've been playing this game for years longer. Don't bother aspiring to a carrier, WE HAVE TRANSCENDED THAT NEWB TRASH! ROFL @ YOU WHO WISH TO PLAY THIS GAME AS WE DID BECAUSE IT'S TOO DAMN LATE. WHO THE HELL TOLD YOU TO SUBSCRIBE ANYWAY?
FYP
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Treslor
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Posted - 2010.10.24 10:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo They aren't overpowered strictly on their own, it just makes the bears whine when they can't defend against a fleet that drops eight mommies, thirty carriers and eighty zealots on them and squeal 'OMGWTFHAX.'
Fan of (super)capitals online, are you? You missed the exciting days of nullsec (based on your character age)
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Liriel Del'Armgo
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.24 13:06:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Liriel Del''Armgo on 24/10/2010 13:18:05 Edited by: Liriel Del''Armgo on 24/10/2010 13:14:29
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo Bend over Abigaile May cause HERE COMES THE SUPERCAPS! Hahahaha! We have more isk than you and we've been playing this game for years longer. Don't bother aspiring to a carrier, WE HAVE TRANSCENDED THAT NEWB TRASH! ROFL @ YOU WHO WISH TO PLAY THIS GAME AS WE DID BECAUSE IT'S TOO DAMN LATE. WHO THE HELL TOLD YOU TO SUBSCRIBE ANYWAY?
FYP
^^ Completely missed the point of what I said. See what I meant earlier in my original post? God, you guys are worse than /b/ sometimes.
Originally by: Treslor Originally by: Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They aren't overpowered strictly on their own, it just makes the bears whine when they can't defend against a fleet that drops eight mommies, thirty carriers and eighty zealots on them and squeal 'OMGWTFHAX.' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fan of (super)capitals online, are you? You missed the exciting days of nullsec (based on your character age)
Did I? Am I somehow now incapable of having returned to the game after a long absence and having trashed my original character due to a desire to start over? Way to assume randomly. Think for a second before you speak next time, and by the way, I've gotta thank you two for completely proving my point.
K bye.
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triafrenum
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.24 14:15:00 -
[20]
The mighty NC cap blobs are not racist. All supers and carriers are welcome. This answer probably does not help you though since your seem to be asking about a smaller alliance that requires tactics.
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Mona X
Caldari C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.10.24 15:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: icecooljon Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump.
Couldn't you just, I don't know... fly away?
Join Eve-Online, meet interesting people, grief them. |
Mmm Insane
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.24 16:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: icecooljon Honestly I think there are too many supercaps in EVE currently. I was in a small fleet ready to jump a Navy Mega with friends on the gate. We jumped in and got the mega to half armor when a Nyx warps in and reps him up while using fighters to pop our fleet. We didn't even have time to disengage and jump. Surely this is a sign that they are too easy to get hold of when they're dropped on a fleet of BC's/BS's
No, you just took a pretty obvious bait. They would have dropped them on whatever happened to come along, even if it was a fleet of mining ibises. Nothing personal in that. Be glad you made them waste supercaps deployment on a small fleet.
Not obvious bait at all. "Wasted supercap deployment" They simply pressed the I WIN button. The only positive aspect to the nyx gayness is they are stupid enough to drop a nyx on a gate, something they should be made to regret a 2nd time.
Yup too many supercaps etc with too many sad sacs using them to make up for lack of pvp skills. Sounds like a corp niche opportunity collating info on stupids that play this way and passing intel to someone who would correct their lame gameplay.
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Treslor
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Posted - 2010.10.24 17:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo ^^ Completely missed the point of what I said. See what I meant earlier in my original post? God, you guys are worse than /b/ sometimes.
Err, the point of what you said essentially boils down to 'get your own supercaps instead of whining about them!'. Thus, Super-Capital (and previously, Capital) OnlineÖ. I could be in a supercapital if I wished, but then I would be reduced to supercapital blobbing lone carriers and small fleets like all the rest of the supercapital pilots. Not only do I think that's not fun, I also think it's poor gameplay
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo Did I? Am I somehow now incapable of having returned to the game after a long absence and having trashed my original character due to a desire to start over? Way to assume randomly.
Just to be clear, I didn't assume that by looking up your char age and then deciding it. I assumed that you missed the golden era of nullsec based on your attitude toward capital proliferation (not knowing any better) and then looked you up.
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Liriel Del'Armgo
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.24 18:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Treslor
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo ^^ Completely missed the point of what I said. See what I meant earlier in my original post? God, you guys are worse than /b/ sometimes.
Err, the point of what you said essentially boils down to 'get your own supercaps instead of whining about them!'. Thus, Super-Capital (and previously, Capital) OnlineÖ. I could be in a supercapital if I wished, but then I would be reduced to supercapital blobbing lone carriers and small fleets like all the rest of the supercapital pilots. Not only do I think that's not fun, I also think it's poor gameplay
One person can blob someone? What, does that mean ten people can crash the server now?
No. The point of what I said was that there is nothing that CCP can do logisitically or mechanically that will keep the number of supercapitals under control. If someone wants one, they will get one, and now its just a little bit easier to. You missed the point of what I said because you put words into my mouth and thought that I meant that everyone should just get into supercapitals and duke it out. Quite the contrary. I love our support battleships, and hictors, and so on. And I love being a triage carrier pilot.
Its not poor gameplay to take advantage of an asset that you spent time earning and perfecting the skills to fly and learning how to use effectively. In fact, thats one of the main points of EVE. Instead of trying to control supercapital numbers, which as I've said is quite literally impossible, roles of the normal capitals should be changed to allow them to cope better against supercapitals in combat.
Don't get me wrong, I like small fleets. If I had a Nyx, though, and saw fifteen people sitting on a gate, attacking a buddy of mine, I would warp it in and proceed to annihilate them, not because I have any personal vendetta against them, but because I would be the person in the supercap and everyone else is attacking my buddy, so I'm gonna go help him out.
In conclusion, and to end this, CCP cannot control the numbers of the supercaps in game. If someone wants one, they'll get it. What they use it for is their business, and it will always come down to people whining about it when they aren't even directly affected. Capitals and supercapitals are great fun, its just you people that whine about the fact that an older player has access to it that makes the game so full of angst.
I'm going to repeat my point one more time for you. If someone wants one of these shiny toys, they will find a way to get into one. If they want to use it, they will. No amount of forum whining will change that.
Have fun raging about pixel spaceships.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc. Adamant Inc
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Posted - 2010.10.24 22:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo
Originally by: Treslor
Originally by: Liriel Del'Armgo ^^ Completely missed the point of what I said. See what I meant earlier in my original post? God, you guys are worse than /b/ sometimes.
Err, the point of what you said essentially boils down to 'get your own supercaps instead of whining about them!'. Thus, Super-Capital (and previously, Capital) OnlineÖ. I could be in a supercapital if I wished, but then I would be reduced to supercapital blobbing lone carriers and small fleets like all the rest of the supercapital pilots. Not only do I think that's not fun, I also think it's poor gameplay
One person can blob someone? What, does that mean ten people can crash the server now?
No. The point of what I said was that there is nothing that CCP can do logisitically or mechanically that will keep the number of supercapitals under control. If someone wants one, they will get one, and now its just a little bit easier to. You missed the point of what I said because you put words into my mouth and thought that I meant that everyone should just get into supercapitals and duke it out. Quite the contrary. I love our support battleships, and hictors, and so on. And I love being a triage carrier pilot.
Its not poor gameplay to take advantage of an asset that you spent time earning and perfecting the skills to fly and learning how to use effectively. In fact, thats one of the main points of EVE. Instead of trying to control supercapital numbers, which as I've said is quite literally impossible, roles of the normal capitals should be changed to allow them to cope better against supercapitals in combat.
Don't get me wrong, I like small fleets. If I had a Nyx, though, and saw fifteen people sitting on a gate, attacking a buddy of mine, I would warp it in and proceed to annihilate them, not because I have any personal vendetta against them, but because I would be the person in the supercap and everyone else is attacking my buddy, so I'm gonna go help him out.
In conclusion, and to end this, CCP cannot control the numbers of the supercaps in game. If someone wants one, they'll get it. What they use it for is their business, and it will always come down to people whining about it when they aren't even directly affected. Capitals and supercapitals are great fun, its just you people that whine about the fact that an older player has access to it that makes the game so full of angst.
I'm going to repeat my point one more time for you. If someone wants one of these shiny toys, they will find a way to get into one. If they want to use it, they will. No amount of forum whining will change that.
Have fun raging about pixel spaceships.
Make them less good, people stop using them or they stop being a problem like they are atm. It's amazing how you "overlooked" that logic.
------ ADMI is recruiting. My EVE tutorials |
Liriel Del'Armgo
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.25 08:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Make them less good, people stop using them or they stop being a problem like they are atm. It's amazing how you "overlooked" that logic.
You mean 'nerf.' I still don't see how this would fix the problem. Pre-Dominion, when I lived in lowsec, a good buddy of mine had a Nyx that was usually in our main tower. Every time he saw a target, even if it was just a solo hurricane in a belt, he would warp the nyx in on it and kill it. Nerfing them isn't going to do a damn thing, since people will still get into them, just like people still get into falcons, curses, and vagabonds, as well as machariels and typhoons, and interceptors, so on.
What would your proposed nerf be? Restore them to a carrier and a half HP and give them fighters only, making them a 20b isk carrier whose only advantage is make them EWAR immune and unscrammable by normal ships. Remember before CCP put the HP buff on Motherships? They got instagibbed by titans.
Know what your answer would be then? Nerf titans.
No, they don't need to be nerfed beyond a slight adjustment to the tracking of fighterbombers. I agree that being able to alpha a battleship is pretty ridiculous, so giving the fighterbombers marginally less tracking against subcaps would be an effective solution.
Oh wait, then the Nyx pilot would still be able to launch his flight of 20 mixed fighters.
Fighterbombers need a slight adjustment, not the ship itself. If you adjust the ship itself, it loses its role which is a super tankbuster meant to wipe out large capital fleets, which I say, it does rather well.
Also, would you care to elaborate on how exactly the motherships are a 'problem' right now as you put it? I'm not really seeing how they're a problem when a properly fit dreadnought can solo-tank that single nyx that wiped out that precious battleship fleet. So, how about instead of saying 'Oh god its so strong and none of my EFT fits can tank it!' you actually get some experience and tactically think about these situations.
That could well have been a twenty billion isk win for those guys had they been properly prepared.
I've seen multiple motherships go down to bomber fleets.
I've seen motherships get whelped on the side of stations trying to dock after trying to solo a hictor with heavy drones.
I still can't see your problem with them aside from the slight adjustment that needs to be made to fighterbombers, unless your logic is 'he has it and I want it, so I automatically hate him and it needs to be nerfed.'
All the price reduction of motherships has done has allowed more fluffy bears into the ships. These guys who hide in lowsec? They're looking for targets to grief, so instead of squealing that its overpowered, learn some of the mechanics behind these things and then you'll actually be able to play the game better and some of your persnickity little complaints will go away.
Here. I'll give you a free tip. Fighterbombers hit for less damage if you aren't holding still. So, Nyx warps into your camp? Don't frickin hold still like a lemming. Then maybe your RR, or even your logis could save you.
Or maybe if you actually set your ships up well, they wouldn't have been alpha'ed.
I'm really still interested in hearing your definition on how supercaps as they are 'are a problem.'
How about this. Maybe people that could have flown them before didn't, not because of the price tag, but because they only had one advantage over flying a carrier. The EWAR immunity. Now they're actually worth flying, so those same people who didn't want one before, fly one now. So there are more? So what? Learn to be a little more discerning in your engagements and then you won't have to crai. Or maybe if this is the way you feel, you should have stayed in highsec.
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.10.25 14:49:00 -
[27]
We could just cry, whine, ***** and moan about hot drops, because that has always worked in the past.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.10.25 16:05:00 -
[28]
Personally I think its fail that every single ship in nullsec is armor tanked with an aoen or nyx covering their ass. With 80% of all of the ship being amarr.
Makes the game so dull and similar. CCP doesn't seem to give a **** either.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.10.25 17:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Diesel47 Personally I think its fail that every single ship in nullsec is armor tanked with an aoen or nyx covering their ass. With 80% of all of the ship being amarr.
Makes the game so dull and similar. CCP doesn't seem to give a **** either.
Give a ****? Oh they sure do. They're talking about nerfing the only relavent shield tanker to play a role in 0.0 for years. Once the drake is out of the picture we can finally get back to the purity of armor...
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