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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Kai Yuen
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Posted - 2010.11.23 00:56:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Ok, I'm outa here. HF dying then blaming CCP for your terrible fits.
Bai
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Trolled out of discussion lol.
There's no QQing in baseball.
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
I dont think that hawk damage was that good /were there any recent changes?/.
I used gank jag vs mse hawk and comfortably win in around 20% shield /maybe 230dps with rf fusion overheated/. No orbiting to mitigate rocket damage, just burned to him and used keep at 1,5k. If i remember i still got some damage mitigation when i was closing in but not for long as i was in point blank very fast. Then i just won dps/ehp race.
The only real dps change of interest was changing the 5% kinetic bonus to 10% on the hawk. The rest was more or less insignificant. Explosion velocity just made applying DPS a little easier. Buffer hawk still the way to go. Shield boost bonus still meaningless.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Have you ever flown a ship in real PVP?
Because Gypsio is quite right.
Oh please, the dude needs his lackies to come defend him? Go back to FW.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.11.23 16:05:00 -
[422]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 23/11/2010 16:05:38
No, rockets got a 5.6% raw DPS increase, with the larger clip size and lower ROF increasing this further in practice. If that's insignificant to you, then you probably can't be bother to train many skills either, and would similarly regard a 5% cut in DPS as "insignificant".
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2010.11.23 17:27:00 -
[423]
Not that i play anymore (this account got ressurected only thx to 5-days-for-free thingy) but damn, Kai Yuen you are pretty dumb and use pretty crap fits thanks to your stupid arguments. No web on your fits? You even heard about range control? Or heard about AB frigs? Have fun trying to kill them without webifier. Using kinetic ammo against gallente t2? Lol. Next time use EM missiles against minmatar t2 armor tanks please and cry how EM damage is useless.
And yea Gypsio is right, you are not. Go back to learning basics about missile combat (especially short range missile combat which rockets belong to) and combat in general. Chapter 11: damage types and Chapter 12: range control.
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Vokradacka
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Posted - 2010.11.23 18:02:00 -
[424]
Hmm... rockets ill be maybe better than before, but still subpar vs guns in every category...
Hawk vs jaguar/wolf ? no chance... fly vs sabre??? omg why...? crow?I flew crow as combat inty last time.....maybe before nanonerf as "anti-inty sniper" with Precision Lights...
But....i have easy solution for almost every rocket ship.. change CPU usage of T2 rockets " 17 -> 9 " (+ maybe PG 4->3 and lower CPU/PG for standard launchers ) ..... "end of story"
bay
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2010.11.23 18:23:00 -
[425]
Actually flycatcher can kill sabre, there are multiple ways of doing it. For example dual MSE catcher can kill sabres pretty OK. But i do agree with fittings especially with CPU on them. Tad too high (or too low CPU output on some of khanid boats like heretic).
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:56:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Kai Yuen
Originally by: Gypsio III
Ok, I'm outa here. HF dying then blaming CCP for your terrible fits.
Bai
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Trolled out of discussion lol.
There's no QQing in baseball.
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
I dont think that hawk damage was that good /were there any recent changes?/.
I used gank jag vs mse hawk and comfortably win in around 20% shield /maybe 230dps with rf fusion overheated/. No orbiting to mitigate rocket damage, just burned to him and used keep at 1,5k. If i remember i still got some damage mitigation when i was closing in but not for long as i was in point blank very fast. Then i just won dps/ehp race.
The only real dps change of interest was changing the 5% kinetic bonus to 10% on the hawk. The rest was more or less insignificant. Explosion velocity just made applying DPS a little easier. Buffer hawk still the way to go. Shield boost bonus still meaningless.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Have you ever flown a ship in real PVP?
Because Gypsio is quite right.
Oh please, the dude needs his lackies to come defend him? Go back to FW.
Gypsio doesn't need defending. Whats he's forgotton about missile based systems is more than you'll ever know!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Major Graft
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Posted - 2010.11.24 07:03:00 -
[427]
I have to agree with Gypsio III applying the damage that rockets have is still to hard compared to turrets. I don't know what the internal tests are but the kestrel isn't even close to be over powered unless your dual webbing in which case your giving up either propulsion or scramming.
As it stands I would say that rockets are about par with blasters, maybe a little bit better. there something to be wary of now but ultimately not that threatening when compared to projectile ships.
Just my two cents
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Jyngo
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.24 13:44:00 -
[428]
Can we get an update on the new rocket changes implementation schedule from CCP please?
Oh and BTW ignore everything that Kai Yuen says CCP Chronotis :P
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.11.24 14:24:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Major Graft I have to agree with Gypsio III applying the damage that rockets have is still to hard compared to turrets.
Did I say this? I don't think I did. To apply good damage against an ABing target you just need a web - but your typical turret boat wants a web also, for range (and transversal) control.
The ease of application of rocket damage is actually pretty good now. An opponent with overloaded AB will still get some damage reduction - as he deserves - but it's nowhere near as bad as how it used to be. Actually, considering the decent range of rockets, their damage is probably easier to apply than, say, blasters. I think Tsubutai(?) was quite worried about this in the case of the Hawk û I think he mentioned something about "unavoidable damage anywhere within web range", and I certainly see where heÆs coming from.
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Major Graft
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Posted - 2010.11.24 21:56:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Major Graft I have to agree with Gypsio III applying the damage that rockets have is still to hard compared to turrets.
Did I say this? I don't think I did. To apply good damage against an ABing target you just need a web - but your typical turret boat wants a web also, for range (and transversal) control.
The ease of application of rocket damage is actually pretty good now. An opponent with overloaded AB will still get some damage reduction - as he deserves - but it's nowhere near as bad as how it used to be. Actually, considering the decent range of rockets, their damage is probably easier to apply than, say, blasters. I think Tsubutai(?) was quite worried about this in the case of the Hawk û I think he mentioned something about "unavoidable damage anywhere within web range", and I certainly see where heÆs coming from.
I thought you said that... perhaps it was someone else.
Anyway I do agree that the rockets are MUCH better now but I believe what I really meant to say about damage application is the the amount of DPS put on a afterburner Rifter for example(from some tests) is till to low for the kestrel to win in ideal circumstances (IE the rifter comes straight at the kestrel while the kestrel burns away with overheated web ect)
Perhaps I have just gotten bad kestrels on the test server? |
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drifter raas
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:12:00 -
[431]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Helicity Boson That explosive velocity is still laughably low for a frigate weapon, firing that against an ABing ship doing around a kilometer a second will still be terrible.
Explosion velocity is not directly translated to target velocity for damage scaling. A 1-1 ratio is not required for effect and since missiles always hit versus turret tracking which can miss, having a constant 70+ DPS beating down on a ship is a big no. We won't be returning to the days or rocket crows > rest. It is better if you jump onto sisi and try it out rather than doing paper exercises with too many false assumptions.
Furthermore, stop looking for the I WIN button. Learn to fly and learn to fit ships.
CCP gave us webs and scrams that can stop people doing these speeds. Spend more for facton and you have the advantage.
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.11.29 23:28:00 -
[432]
Originally by: drifter raas Furthermore, stop looking for the I WIN button. Learn to fly and learn to fit ships.
CCP gave us webs and scrams that can stop people doing these speeds. Spend more for facton and you have the advantage.
CCP also gave us ships without enough mid slots to fit extra webs, scrams, and shields. The rifter is deadly with only a scram, the kestrel (a much slower ship)requires a web and scram to apply damage. And while this is better than requiring TWO webs and a scram, it's still a bit silly.
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7'th Tactical
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Posted - 2010.11.30 09:28:00 -
[433]
I'd kill for an additional med slot on a retribution cous having 1 is just plane silly LOL. Gypsio you troll you were supose to go away from this topic so do so and stop posting. But back on topic:
Active tank, cap stable:
[Hawk, solo] Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Small Nosferatu II
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Buffer tank: [Hawk, solo] Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I
1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Invulnerability Field II
Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket [empty high slot]
Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Core Defence Field Extender I
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Rian O'Shea
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Posted - 2010.12.01 01:52:00 -
[434]
Has anyone done some 1v1's?
hawk vs jag, ishkur, vengeance etc? Hawk vs cruisers, some BC's? Numbers are fine and all that but what we really need to figure out is if it's now a viable ship to fly.
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2010.12.01 03:32:00 -
[435]
Edited by: I''m Down on 01/12/2010 03:33:06 I never understand why people ***** about the Retributions. It's one of the few ships in this game that I truely admire because it has a specific role and a specific void. The whole Idea that every ship in eve should be able to tackle and web and do damage, etc always drives me nuts.
As for the rocket fix... I'm severely disappointed. CCP's claim for why rockets can't get more dps has to do with a specific ship. Doesn't this mean that it's the ship, not the mod that needs the fix to prevent it from being overpowered while returning rockets to their old levels.
Here's a simple fix for the crow ccp... remove the velocity bonus for something else. Then rockets can't out range other frigates/cruisers outside web range. It's just that simple.
No other frigate would be overpowered with higher dps rockets. Rockets have huge pit falls just like torps or heavy assaults. The old crow was overpowered because the old pitfalls weren't there. But they are now.
Quit nerfing to hell all the rocket class users because one ship has 1 bonus that makes the mod too strong.
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rowdy buccaneer
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Posted - 2010.12.01 15:16:00 -
[436]
were rockets have an issue too is here *That's* where rockets are getting shafted. Rockets should have an explosion velocity higher than 85 (heavy missiles, for reference, have an explosion velocity of 81m/sec!). Sounds like maybe someone left a "1" off the front of that number (ie. should be 185m/sec, not 85m/sec). btw i think all dic's and ew frigs should have rockets with racial bonuses!!!!!!!!!!!
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Proxyyyy
Caldari SniggWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.12.04 04:34:00 -
[437]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 04/12/2010 04:35:21 Hawk, flycather and Heretic. The aforementioned ships, had significant increases in offensive capabilities. After the ret@rd3d-hype over the hawk is done; most will go back to flying the better assualt frigates (i dont even fly cal frigates anymore, bar crow). Also, the Vengeance is much better than the Hawk.
Some thoughts about interdictors: Im not sure the damage advantage of the sabre ever realy mattered much in the past (cause the flycather and heretic can have similiar tank and speed). The Sabre and most interdictors, seem to be used as throw away ships (Just, from what i've been seeing in null sec). Interdictors explode very easily. Now, the flycather and Heretic are able to project around 300/dps, but who's realy willing to pay 30plus mill for these hulls, to pvp anywhere away from fleets? In fleets they pop alot and solo they're not worth it over a Thrasher, which also does 300dps(overheated).
(Of course, you can just fly them cause they koolz and diffrent)
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Eve Orwell
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.04 10:33:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Proxyyyy Edited by: Proxyyyy on 04/12/2010 04:35:21 Hawk, flycather and Heretic. The aforementioned ships, had significant increases in offensive capabilities. After the ret@rd3d-hype over the hawk is done; most will go back to flying the better assualt frigates (i dont even fly cal frigates anymore, bar crow). Also, the Vengeance is much better than the Hawk.
Some thoughts about interdictors: Im not sure the damage advantage of the sabre ever realy mattered much in the past (cause the flycather and heretic can have similiar tank and speed). The Sabre and most interdictors, seem to be used as throw away ships (Just, from what i've been seeing in null sec). Interdictors explode very easily. Now, the flycather and Heretic are able to project around 300/dps, but who's realy willing to pay 30plus mill for these hulls, to pvp anywhere away from fleets? In fleets they pop alot and solo they're not worth it over a Thrasher, which also does 300dps(overheated).
(Of course, you can just fly them cause they koolz and diffrent)
ive never actually flown a dictor solo, but id imagine that people like them for solo/very small gang pvp because they dont actually need a lock to stop people from warping away, so they're great for killing frigates/shuttles on gates (lost my first cov ops to a solo eris)
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Nasty Spanker
Amarr Dashavatara Clownz'R'Us
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Posted - 2010.12.08 10:04:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Rian O'Shea Has anyone done some 1v1's?
hawk vs jag, ishkur, vengeance etc? Hawk vs cruisers, some BC's? Numbers are fine and all that but what we really need to figure out is if it's now a viable ship to fly.
i've been using the hawk quite a bit since its buff. Works really well against wolf's, ishkurs, vengence and retributions. Struggles against jags. Anything smaller in class ie cepter eaf's die quick if they are in range.
The damage output is still quite low and rocket vengence or crow is a waste of time. The only reason the hawk performs ok is because of the extra buff. I Still think the rockets need a bit of a tweek but all in all, i'm liking the hawk again, especially if they leave this new bonus on it :)
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Evil Evo
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Posted - 2010.12.23 10:53:00 -
[440]
I think the irony here is that still after the changes, the isk and the time spend on fitting just a reasonable Hawk and understanding the the Rocket boost, it would still be cheaper and more fun in the long run to fit a t2 Dramiel. Probably also more succesfull!
I am also one of those that think the Hawk should have the "Caldari-buffer" approach instead of the "Minmatar-Shield-boost" approach. Never understood the ambivalence to the Caldari ships anyhow!
Just my 5 cents. Fly safe!
Evil
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