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Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.28 23:41:00 - [1] I have four accounts. About a month ago I was informed the pay by cash would no longer be available. Thats fine, I will change it to credit card. CCP tells me I will need to wait till there is less than one month on my subscription before it will let me change the subscription to another form of payment. Cool. I wait an now I go to change the payment method. What's this, all four of my accounts are now subscribed till mid December. I petitioned and after going back and forth, they don't know what happened. I can't change my payment method and CCP is popping more champagne bottles on more money they have stolen from me. 8 months of stolen subscription. I guess if you want to quit the game they won't let you. CCP, can I come to Iceland where stealing is legal apparently? Five years of loyalty and you stab me in the back like this. And yes, I am mad. Wouldn't you be?
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.28 23:47:00 - [2] I have no idea what you're trying to say. All four your accounts are subscribed till mid December, how is that losing 8 months? Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users!
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2010.09.28 23:51:00 - [3] Your stuff, give it to me.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.09.28 23:55:00 - [4] Did you pay with conterfeit electronic cash? -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:04:00 - [5] So what you are saying is, you didnt go in and cancel the auto-renewal and the system updated your subs based on your interval so CCP are thieves? Your house payment is an automatic withdrawl too. Does that make the bank a thief? Income tax is an automatic withdrawl from your pay. Does that make your employer a thief? - Go to subscription page - Cancel Subscription - 2 weeks before you are out of time, add a new subscription method. - put head in ass and fart.
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:04:00 - [6] Edited by: Trygonus on 29/09/2010 00:09:23 Originally by: Estel Arador I have no idea what you're trying to say. All four your accounts are subscribed till mid December, how is that losing 8 months? They were only subscribed till the end of this month. Now they are magically subscribed till the middle of December. And I still am stuck in the pay by cash option. I was wanting to take a break from the game after I found out about the soon to be introduced PLEX for skill remap. CCP upped my subscription on each account for 2 more months magically and they are a loss for answers. 2 months x 4 characters = 8 months of subscription. Everyone should check your subscription details and see if they stole from anyone else. Originally by: Clueless Alt Your stuff, give it to me. Yourself, go **. Originally by:** Ocih So what you are saying is, you didnt go in and cancel the auto-renewal and the system updated your subs based on your interval so CCP are thieves? Your house payment is an automatic withdrawl too. Does that make the bank a thief? Income tax is an automatic withdrawl from your pay. Does that make your employer a thief? - Go to subscription page - Cancel Subscription - 2 weeks before you are out of time, add a new subscription method. - put head in ass and fart. A month ago when they sent out emails saying they were ending the pay by cash they took away the auto-renew option if you were pay by cash so people would have to pick a new payment method. You should do less presuming about peoples intelligence. An apology would be appropriate from you to be honest.
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Trygonus They were only subscribed till the end of this month. Now they are magically subscribed till the middle of December. That's gaining months, not losing... Originally by: Trygonus CCP upped my subscription on each account for 2 more months magically and they are a loss for answers. From what I've gathered so far, you've extended your subscription, and CCP credited you with the appropriate amount of game time. I don't see anyone stealing anything here. Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users!
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:13:00 - [8] You're description is missing some details: 1) If you're pay by cash and they sub'd you 8 months, how did they get paid? 2) If you changed your sub options which you say you couldn't, to a credit card, dispute the charges. Your CC company will most likely side with you. If you're pay by cash and you can't change, where did CCP get the money?
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:13:00 - [9] Pay by cash auto renewal might have been taken out but you are still in the system. You still need to cancel your sub to remove it. I need to prove it? You are still subscribed. Need more proof?
Apo Lyptica	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:15:00 - [10] plex for skill? wtf is that
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Mr Kidd You're description is missing some details: 1) If you're pay by cash and they sub'd you 8 months, how did they get paid? 2) If you changed your sub options which you say you couldn't, to a credit card, dispute the charges. Your CC company will most likely side with you. If you're pay by cash and you can't change, where did CCP get the money? None of my accounts where due to be resubscribed because of the pay by cash. I am looking at 4 charges, each two months worth of subscriptions, on my bank account. They did not give me free game time you tards.
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:20:00 - [12] Edited by: Trygonus on 29/09/2010 00:23:04 Originally by: Ocih You still need to cancel your sub to remove it. I need to prove it? You are still subscribed. Need more proof? O M G ... I have already said that I was not set to auto subscribe. Even if I did not pick a new form of payment my accounts would have just ended because they are not doing the pay by cash anymore. Even still, there is no option at all, to cancel the accounts because it is showing as pay by cash. I even asked CCP and they said there was nothing they could do. That was a month ago. They said I would have to wait till there was less than a month to change payment method or cancel the accounts. Originally by: Apo Lyptica plex for skill? wtf is that In the next expansion, if you got the money in real life, you can buy a bunch of plex and get unlimited skill remaps so you are always train fast no matter what skill it is. If you got the dough, you got fast skill training. Also like micro-transactions.
Orange Lagomorph	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Trygonus I was wanting to take a break from the game after I found out about the soon to be introduced PLEX for skill remap. You're being an over-dramatic little *****, I hope they subscribe you until December 2011 and you ragecrush your keyboard.
Nemesis Factor Caldari Telanus' Reach	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:26:00 - [14] I think he's saying he changed his payment method from PBC to credit and selected one month on each account. But instead of adding one month, he got 3. Challenge the payment with your bank/Credit Union. ==================== ~/~ Sultan of Buruni
Orange Lagomorph	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:28:00 - [15] Also, if you've been playing for five years, why don't you just pay for your accounts with ISK? Surely after five years you've figured out how to make 1.4bn per month with all those accounts?
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Orange Lagomorph Originally by: Trygonus I was wanting to take a break from the game after I found out about the soon to be introduced PLEX for skill remap. You're being an over-dramatic little *****, I hope they subscribe you until December 2011 and you ragecrush your keyboard. This thread is not about why I wanted to take a break. I was in contact with CCP before the PLEX for skill remap was even put on SiSi. They knew I wanted to change payment methods. They knew because my accounts were not close enough to the end of the subscription that I could not change the payment method or cancel the accounts. Now before anymore of you think, "Well, sounds like you subscribed for more time and CCP gave it to you and took the money." NO. That is not correct.
Ocih Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Nemesis Factor I think he's saying he changed his payment method from PBC to credit and selected one month on each account. But instead of adding one month, he got 3. Challenge the payment with your bank/Credit Union. This. and O M G ... It just occured to me, I *** and grief CCP all the time but every time someone tries to slander them I go front line to stick up for them. WTF am I doing?? You are right, they suck. Bunch of thieves. Rage Quit!!! **, I cant I am in an auto renewal account
Orange Lagomorph	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:37:00 - [18] But the hard truth is, no one actually gives a damn about the terrible injustice you claim to have suffered. Besides which, since only about twelve people use PayByCash worldwide to pay for EVE, the rest of us are having a hard time understanding exactly what the problem is. Not that we could actually DO anything, mind you. You're just venting. Also, reasons aside, your thread title is also overly dramatic. Just train your characters through December and take a break for however long you want over the terrible injustice of supposed stealth microtransactions that haven't even been implemented yet.
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Nemesis Factor I think he's saying he changed his payment method from PBC to credit and selected one month on each account. But instead of adding one month, he got 3. Challenge the payment with your bank/Credit Union. Incorrect. I never at any time was allowed to change the payment method. All four accounts were charged via the Pay By Cash. These transactions were not on auto-renew. I did not use it to pay in advance. Originally by: Orange Lagomorph Also, if you've been playing for five years, why don't you just pay for your accounts with ISK? Surely after five years you've figured out how to make 1.4bn per month with all those accounts? Supply and Demand. By introducing PLEX for remaps, CCP creates demand for PLEX. If I use ISK to buy a PLEX, then that creates more demand. Thus, some rich person will buy PLEX with real money to sell to me. I had reservations about PLEX when it came out. Then CCP changes it where it is possible for PLEX to be destroyed, thus not having to provide service for that subscription it would have been used for. Which means, free money for them. Now they are having more uses for it and thus, more free money for them.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:44:00 - [20] So, you were already using PayByCash to pay for those accounts, and CCP just pushed one last transaction through that system before eliminating the support for it altogether. So just a second... were you planning to CANCEL any of those accounts ? If not, I fail to see what the rage is about, since you say they DID extend your sub, they didn't just "steal" the money and gave you nothing in return, and you would have paid for it anyway. You paid a bit early, that's all. How's that justifying the "backstabbing" and "stealing" remarks ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Pallas Minervo	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Ocih Your house payment is an automatic withdrawl too. Does that make the bank a thief? Income tax is an automatic withdrawl from your pay. Does that make your employer a thief? Income tax isn't an automatic withdrawal from your pay. You choose how much is deducted each pay period. Most people are lazy and just let their employers payroll guy handle it. Some of the smarter folks, who don't have problems saving money, take 0 deductions and use the money to invest or earn interest and pay their income taxes at the end of their fiscal year. Why pay Uncle Sam early.
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:55:00 - [22] Edited by: Trygonus on 29/09/2010 01:01:23 Originally by: Akita T So, you were already using PayByCash to pay for those accounts, and CCP just pushed two last transaction on each account through that system before eliminating the support for it altogether. Yes. Also fixed. Originally by: Akita T So just a second... were you planning to CANCEL any of those accounts ? A couple weeks before anyone saw anything about the new use for PLEX, I had no intention on cancelling my accounts. After I came up and it went all over the forums, I decided that I wanted to cancel my accounts. There was no 'Cancel Subscription' button anymore because I was still on the Pay By Cash. That is when I noticed that my subscriptions no longer had the end of this month but the middle of December. Originally by: Akita T You paid a bit early, that's all. How's that justifying the "backstabbing" and "stealing" remarks ? If I give you a paper clip and reach in your wallet and take a hand full of money when you did not want the paper clip, what is that? Originally by: Akita T All EVE payments are payment in advance. You pay at the start of the sub cycle, not at the end. Recurring subscription charges also occur at the start of the paying-for intervals, not at their end. Right now, the subscriptions left are well over two months away. I am not talking about the month I have been waiting to run out. I had over a week left on my subscription. Then it magically (remember, CCP has already said they do not know what happened) gets extended to a bit past the middle of December.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.29 00:56:00 - [23] Edited by: Akita T on 29/09/2010 01:04:16 Originally by: Pallas Minervo Income tax isn't an automatic withdrawal from your pay. You choose how much is deducted each pay period. Most people are lazy and just let their employers payroll guy handle it. Some of the smarter folks, who don't have problems saving money, take 0 deductions and use the money to invest or earn interest and pay their income taxes at the end of their fiscal year. Why pay Uncle Sam early. That might be valid in the USA and some other places. Not valid in most of Europe. Originally by: Trygonus Yes, I wanted to cancel my accounts because of CCP planning to allow PLEX for instant remaps FYP for brevity's sake. Yeah, in that case, it makes sense for you to be angry. Still, the reason you wanted to cancel the subs for... not so great of a reason. Also explained briefly in previous post as to why. There has been a longer discussion about it a while earlier, if you care to go into details (Linkage). But then again, you don't have to have a good reason to cancel, so your anger is justified anyway. Posting about it in here probably won't help much though. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 01:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Akita T Posting about it in here probably won't help much though. I was also wondering if anyone else that has or still is on the pay by cash had any issues like this.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.29 01:05:00 - [25] What was "PayByCash" anyway and why use it instead of, say, a debit card. Just curious. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Trygonus	Posted - 2010.09.29 01:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Akita T What was "PayByCash" anyway and why use it instead of, say, a debit card. Just curious. There is a lot of countries in the world that simply don't allow stuff like credit card over the internet. South Africa for example. Now that Pay by Cash will be gone, if you can't make enough ISK to buy a PLEX to continue your subscription, you won't be able to play EVE anymore. I don't live there but some guy made a thread about it a few days ago iirc. I can't even remember why I was on pay by cash to be honest. I was planning on switching to credit card after CCP contacted me when they decided to get rid of the pay by cash. I don't really have a problem with PLEX because it helps a bit against RMT and allows those who don't have money to play the game. What I did not like is CCP changing it so PLEX can be destroyed and thus they get to opt out of providing service. And soon to be PLEX for remap?... sigh I just don't like the way things are going. I know a lot of you think I am going over board but ffs, $120 was jacked out of my bank account by CCP and I did not authorize it. So I am really ****ed off. I did not make some mistake... and do the same mistake three more times on my other accounts. This whole thing just adds to the fire of how I feel about how CCP is running this game.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.09.29 01:20:00 - [27] If you are 100% sure you never want to return to the game anymore, you can always just contest the charges with your bank. There's a high chance you'll get your money back, but in case you do, your accounts will be permabanned. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.09.29 02:14:00 - [28] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 29/09/2010 02:20:13 Originally by: Orange Lagomorph Also, if you've been playing for five years, why don't you just pay for your accounts with ISK? Surely after five years you've figured out how to make 1.4bn per month with all those accounts? Not everyone plays eve to make an imaginary business empire.
Orange Lagomorph	Posted - 2010.09.29 02:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Brian Ballsack Not everyone plays eve to make an imaginary business empire. It's not entirely imaginary if it saves you $60 a month, though, is it?
NewGit Caldari Rusty Industries	Posted - 2010.09.29 03:04:00 - [30] So, you were planning on quitting (after 5+ years of playing) because of the changes to the way PLEXs are handled ? Moveable/Destroyable PLEXs were something that had been apparently planned all along, but not implemented until recently. PLEX for remap hasn't been implemented (except on SiSi as far as I know) and may never be. Next. You are apparently unable to contact PayByCash and have the transaction(s) cancelled/reversed ? (I've never dealt with them, but you can do that with most credit cards.) Next. Are you sure it wasn't something to do with PayByCash that caused the extra months to be added on ? As I mentioned in another thread, people are sure quick to blame CCP for what is often an error made by themselves or a third party that CCP has no control over. Next. I would find it hard to believe that CCP couldn't/wouldn't simply reverse the credit and remove the extra play time. In the dealings I've had with them, they have been very helpful. Then again, maybe they just decided out of 300,000+ members, they'd have a personal vendetta against you ? Next. Even if Auto-Renewal was on (I believe that is the default setting) when you switched payment methods it would have only renewed for 1 month, UNLESS you had selected a longer payment period initially. If you were on a 1 month subscription, it should have only (at most) added 1 month which would take you to around mid November (the initial subscription month plus 1 additional month, assuming this happened around mid-September). If you are subscribed to mid December, that would indicate that 3 months have been added on (mid-Sept to mid-Oct, to mid-Nov, to mid-Dec = 3). I see from the Subscription Intervals that periods of 1, 3, 6 and 12 months are offered. Are you sure you didn't select the wrong interval when you switched payment methods ? (I have my 6 accounts all on 1 year periods, auto-renewal. Can't be arsed to renew them more often than that.) Finally. As you are planning on quitting any ways, please contract all your stuffs to me in game. I will ensure they are used/disposed of in a manner that best suits my needs. --------------* If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, mine it.

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