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olan2005
Tactical Operations Fleet Delta
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.09.29 17:40:00 -
[1]
for god sake but it back so any wreck in missions can only be looted by you im tired of ppl salavging my wrecks
ore map
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Elizabeth Norn
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:05:00 -
[2]
That's certainly a horrible crime committed against you, what system are you having trouble in? As soon as I know I will get right on it.
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Izztyrr Maemtor
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:11:00 -
[3]
They are not your wrecks.
 Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: olan2005
for god sake but it back so any wreck in missions can only be looted by you im tired of ppl salavging my wrecks
You seem upset. Umad?
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:16:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 29/09/2010 18:17:53
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
They are not your wrecks.
Actually...
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Robert Caldera you are missing the point. The Wrecks belong to the person who kill the rat. It is up to them to abandon them or not. If we wanted it so you had to claim them we would not have made it a crime to take from some else can.
This feature was added specifically because a lot of people wanted a way to give loot rights to someone else in the case where they did not care who loots the wrecks. All those wrecks belong to the person who killed them, regardless if it is 10 min after they kill it or 2 seconds before the wreck despawns.
It is their wreck.
If they chose to allow you to loot/ salvage the wreck is their choice. If they are nowhere in sight then steal the stuff and fly away. Just be aware of the consequences stealing from someoneÆs wreck.
If they are nice enough to abandon the wreck then you can take from it without being flagged a criminal.
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One Button Extractors
Explosions!
ORE Field Offices |
Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
They are not your wrecks.
How so? If you steal (a concept that requires ownership) from them then you will be flagged as a petty outlaw and its owner can kill you.
The correct answer is that CCP wants anyone to be able to loot any wreck. It has nothing to do with any nebulous concepts of salvage rights in the real world.
Also, to the OP: When were we not able to loot and salvage other people's wrecks?
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:20:00 -
[7]
I have said time and time again...
The reason wreck ownership is confusing, is because they initially serve as a container for the loot.
There is a simple fix to this issue.
When a ship dies, it should spawn a Jet Can and a Wreck.
The Jet Can "belongs" to the killer, meaning they are the only ones meant to open it, and are the only ones able to tractor it.
The Wreck is "neutral", and thus can be tractored by anyone.
Then salvage is public property, and the killer can still collect the loot their entitled to.
If you take their loot, you're still a target.
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One Button Extractors
Explosions!
ORE Field Offices |
Izztyrr Maemtor
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hari Markkus
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
They are not your wrecks.
How so? If you steal (a concept that requires ownership) from them then you will be flagged as a petty outlaw and its owner can kill you.
Right, you get flagged for stealing the loot inside but not the wreck. Because the wreck doesn't belong to anyone.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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transporter2005
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:44:00 -
[9]
it use to be u could not loot another wreck so in my opinion that needs to change plain and simple back to how it was anyway im moving out of umokka due to ninja slavaging gits so mute point
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.09.29 18:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
Right, you get flagged for stealing the loot inside but not the wreck. Because the wreck doesn't belong to anyone.
No matter how CCP states it, in my eyes the wreck is mine. If two identical ships with identical fits in different corps are hovering around a white downward triangle containing a piece of scrap metal and I am the only one that can 1) Tractor it 2) Shoot it without CONCORD 3) Has my picture on it for looting without aggro, its mine. Once that triangle has has turned blue then its open to the public and no longer mine by my decision.
Now, what isn't mine is the act of salvaging. Salvager modules do not discriminate and consume salvage like ammo, once the cycle finishes and yes/no=true/false a piece of salvage into the the cargohold then that item is open the debate of "doesn't belong to anyone until its in the cargo hold". It sounds funny I know, its another one of CCP's not so defined but this is how it is so accept it statements.
In the end, if someone would just state their damn intent I would probably let them have the wrecks. We could work out a deal that I would use the tractor beams to gather up the wrecks and collect the modules for reprocessing later , they get the ability to salvage a wreck ball to save time and not fly all over the mission space. Saves me the hassle of spending a couple minutes popping wrecks with the Vargur's lousy lock time  and the time spent scanning out a mission runner, no matter how much Suddenly Ninja's say they spent collecting tears, that time spent is not as free as the minerals just because they did it themselves 
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wookiesrus
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Posted - 2010.09.29 20:33:00 -
[11]
they want you to buy a 2nd account so you can salvage it yourself
me, i either
blow em up, wait for them to get near the can they pop it
we've popped someones tengu then their tempest this way
sit there in space like your afk. let them sit there while you watch tv, eat, pick your nose
more fun
get 2nd account. use junky char blow them up in their junky ship, repeat as often as necessary. make 2 man corp. have junky alt legally able to blow their ship. if they wanna blow up your crappy ship for popping theirs more power to them.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.29 21:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Monte Shill
No matter how CCP states it, in my eyes the wreck is mine.
Quoting a "make the game the way I want to play it" post...
Originally by: wookiesrus
they want you to buy a 2nd account so you can salvage it yourself
Yes clearly. It's not as if CCP introduced the concept of and implemented battleships that can salvage as they go is it eh? EH?
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TehFailGuy
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Posted - 2010.09.29 22:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: wookiesrus
they want you to buy a 2nd account so you can salvage it yourself
Yes clearly. It's not as if CCP introduced the concept of and implemented battleships that can salvage as they go is it eh? EH?
This
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Kezzle
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Posted - 2010.09.29 23:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Monte Shill
No matter how CCP states it, in my eyes the wreck is mine.
And that opinion plus about a hundred million ISK will get you a Maelstrom hull.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but your eyes have no bearing on the reality of game mechanics. If you want something to change, the Suggestions board is over there.
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Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.09.29 23:38:00 -
[15]
Come on Ollie, everyone knows all of your lootz and salvage belong to Suddenly Ninjas. If you want us out of your mission, you'll either need to get out of the obvious mission hubs or get a Tengu and go Silent Running.
Working as intended, nothing to see here.
Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.09.30 01:17:00 -
[16]
the wreck belongs to the mission owner, and as such you can shoot people for stealing from it.
however the salvage belongs to the salvager.
don't like it go play some instanced game where you can keep all the loot.
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Enduros
Intoxicated Herbalists
Cha0s Theory
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Posted - 2010.09.30 01:27:00 -
[17]
After about 700 effective dps it's more profitable to only grab what you can while guns blazing and move on for faster completion times. What I mean is get more dps.. and someone needs to feed the vultures don't they?
And if you can't beat them, join them!
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This one time, at gate camp, I shot a shuttle... |
Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.09.30 06:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kezzle
Originally by: Monte Shill
No matter how CCP states it, in my eyes the wreck is mine.
And that opinion plus about a hundred million ISK will get you a Maelstrom hull.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but your eyes have no bearing on the reality of game mechanics. If you want something to change, the Suggestions board is over there.
I understand how the mechanics work and I wouldn't bother trying to change it, but CCP gave me the option to release and turn blue a wreck, which is a vague way of saying its yours, shut up, you now have the option to do what you want with it: shoot it, loot it, salvage it, give it way, . As stated before, I don't care that much if the guy buzzing around in a vigil stated his intent (Open hailing frequencies, it just might work! I am pretty reasonable 90% of the time when in a good mood) and let me finish the mission uninterrupted. If the pilot wants to LARP he is some bad ass pirate in highsec surrounded by CONCORD but needs me to open fire on his 300k frig with a 750million BS with a huge weaknes because they don't understand non-consent combat and they want an easy marauder kill to pad their killboard (like sticking a sock in your pocket ) by comming back in their T2/T3 ship they are to afraid to fly in lowsec/null, perhaps they should cancel their account and go play an easier game like World of Hello Kittycraft or something.
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Tyburn Stannis
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Posted - 2010.09.30 09:31:00 -
[19]
Answer A. Train the skills, fit a salvager - tidy up your own wrecks. Oh wait, you don't want to do that because it will gimp your awesome EFT-fitted DPS, will take time out of your precious training queue, and slow your carefully calculated LP / standing gain per hour? Then you're not actually interested in the salvage are you, quit whining when someone who is interested gets involved.
Answer B. It's not your wreck. Mission sites are scanned out just like Radar or Gravimetric sites, you do not own the box or the asteroid simply by being the first person to warp there.
Answer C. HTFU. If you don't like it, quit flying in busy space, learn to grow some balls yourself and ashoot the Bad Man in ur mishun salvagin' ur wrecks. Or heaven
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Tyburn Stannis
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Posted - 2010.09.30 09:51:00 -
[20]
Answer A. Train the skills, fit a salvager - tidy up your own wrecks. Oh wait, you don't want to do that because it will gimp your awesome EFT-perfected DPS, will take time out of your precious training queue, and slow down your carefully calculated LP / standing gain per hour? Then you're not actually interested in the salvage are you, quit whining when someone who is interested gets involved.
Answer B. It's not your private instanced dungeon, it's a public point in a shared universe. Mission sites are scanned out just like Radar or Gravimetric sites, you do not own the box or the asteroid or the NPC simply by being the first person to warp there. You (yes YOU) can alter the odds of keeping your discovery to yourself in your favour, by not flying something with the scan signal of a small country for a start.
Answer C. HTFU. If still you don't like it, quit flying in busy space at peak times. And if you get a little red friend on your mission feel free to shoot them down, CCP has given you the agression mechanic for a reason. And if they come back in a bigger ship for a second round, guess what - you can too! Oh noes he brought a RR buddy, guess what - you can too! Oh I'm sorry, did you only just realise that EvE is an MMO and not a solo game?
Or heaven forbid why don't YOU take the initiative and open a convo offering to team up. The Bad Man in ur mission stealin' ur wrecks might be tired of looking over his shoulder for an incoming missile, and gladly accept a fleet or a deal. One man's trash is another man's goldmine.
Fly safe. But not too safe... :P
Tyburn |
Kizahhan
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Posted - 2010.09.30 11:06:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kizahhan on 30/09/2010 11:07:16
I hear carebear tears give you explosive mudbutt, a pirates pod is a nasty nasty place to be.
On topic, Deal with it until Blizzard buys CCP, ninjas go away and we get dwarves as a playable faction.<---means im kidding
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.09.30 11:12:00 -
[22]
I've run out of supplies of both "face" and "palm" to respond to this thread.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.30 12:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
Originally by: Hari Markkus
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
They are not your wrecks.
How so? If you steal (a concept that requires ownership) from them then you will be flagged as a petty outlaw and its owner can kill you.
Right, you get flagged for stealing the loot inside but not the wreck. Because the wreck doesn't belong to anyone.
You get flagged for shooting the wreck AND it has your name on it. 2 cases for, one case against it being your wreck.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.09.30 12:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: olan2005
for god sake but it back so any wreck in missions can only be looted by you im tired of ppl salavging my wrecks
So hypothetically, if CCP did make salvaging a player created wreck cause theft aggro, what would you do? Would you fire on the ninja salvager?
Because you know what happens then, dont you?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Backfyre
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Posted - 2010.09.30 13:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: olan2005
for god sake but it back so any wreck in missions can only be looted by you im tired of ppl salavging my wrecks
Heh. CCP has long encouraged loot thievery and ninja salvaging as intended game play. You don't like it, don't play a PvP-based MMO.
My personal solutions are:
1. don't mission in areas known for ninja salvagers
2. train to fly a marauder to loot/salvage high value wrecks as you go
3. realize that Eve is a "game" and don't worry about it
One of my corp mates has his own solution:
4. gank the ninja. So what if he loses more ISK, it's just a game after all.
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.09.30 13:52:00 -
[26]
Darn it, where the heck is that huge post outlining why the Wreck doesn't belong to someone. Doesn't Ironhouse or someone like that keep it on their website for just this purpose?
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.09.30 14:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Darn it, where the heck is that huge post outlining why the Wreck doesn't belong to someone. Doesn't Ironhouse or someone like that keep it on their website for just this purpose?
Actually...
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Robert Caldera you are missing the point. The Wrecks belong to the person who kill the rat. It is up to them to abandon them or not. If we wanted it so you had to claim them we would not have made it a crime to take from some else can.
This feature was added specifically because a lot of people wanted a way to give loot rights to someone else in the case where they did not care who loots the wrecks. All those wrecks belong to the person who killed them, regardless if it is 10 min after they kill it or 2 seconds before the wreck despawns.
It is their wreck.
If they chose to allow you to loot/ salvage the wreck is their choice. If they are nowhere in sight then steal the stuff and fly away. Just be aware of the consequences stealing from someoneÆs wreck.
If they are nice enough to abandon the wreck then you can take from it without being flagged a criminal.
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One Button Extractors
Explosions!
ORE Field Offices |
Tyburn Stannis
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Posted - 2010.09.30 14:44:00 -
[28]
Ah, you mean this stuff :
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
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Razean
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Posted - 2010.09.30 15:37:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Razean on 30/09/2010 15:40:29
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
I have said time and time again...
The reason wreck ownership is confusing, is because they initially serve as a container for the loot.
The reason it is confusing is because it's an arbitrary decision made by CCP that is incosistent and illogical.
If I own the loot, why do I not own the wreck as well? If I do not own the wreck, why do I not own the loot as well?
I've never seen a satisfactory answer to those questions other than because CCP says so. Well, those kinds of answers haven't been acceptable to me since I was 12 years old (though my parents still insisted on giving that answer for a good 5+ years after that).
The truth is, all the reasons given for wrecks being free for the taking can just as easily be applied to loot, and all the reasons for loot being 'owned' by someone can just as easily be applied to wrecks as well.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.09.30 16:09:00 -
[30]
Fine, fine. Change it so that when someone salvages an unabandoned wreck they are flagged for "theft."
Then we can enjoy the whines of people complaining that they fired on a ninja salvager and got wtfpwnbbqd by the salvagers buddies lying in wait.
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