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Cyrus XII
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:19:00 -
[1]
Ok, so I got to punching some figures and the damage output I've calculated for the Taranis is simply outstanding. I've posted all my work and figures so that you can follow along and perhaps help me correct any mistakes I've made. I'm not sure if I've taken into account the appropriate game mechanics but I've done my best. If you're not into numbers, read the summary.
Hypothetical Configuration:
Taranis
3x Light Neutron Blaster II's (S Antimatter)
Taranis:
25% Damage/ROF Increase.
Light Neutron Blaster II Information:
4.zx Base Damage Mod
3.50sec Base Rate of Fire
Antimatter Information:
Kinetic: 7 HP
Thermal: 5 HP
Base Shield: 8.2
Base Armor: 8.5
Total Shield: 20.2
Total Base: 20.5
Skills Accounted for:
Gunnery V
Rapid Fire IV
Small Hybrid V
Small Blaster Specialization IV
Surgical Strike IV
Damage Modifiers:
25% (Racial Bonus)
5% x5 (Small Hybrid V)
2% x4 (Specialization IV)
3% x4 (Surgical Strike IV)
4.2x DMG (Weapon Mod.)
Rate of Fire Bonus:
2% x5 (Gunnery V)
4% x4 (Rapid Fire IV)
25% (Racial Bonus)
Compounding Interest Formula:
A=P(1+r)^t
Damage per one shot on armor:
20.5+(20.5x0.25)=25.6 <- Racial Bonus
25.6(1+0.05)^5 =32.7 <- Small Hybrid Skill
32.7(1+0.03)^4 =36.8 <- Surgical Strike Skill
36.8(1+0.02)^4 =39.8 <- Specialization Skill
39.8x4.2 =167.2 <- Turret Mod
Shots per second:
3.50-(3.50x0.25)=2.63 <- Racial Bonus
2.63(1-0.04)^4 =2.23 <- Rapid Fire skill
2.23(1-0.02)^5 =2.02 <- Gunnery skill
Damage per minute:
167.2 x 3 = 501.6 damage
60/2.02 = 29.7shots/minute
501.6x29.7= 14897.5damage/minute
Let me push all the numbers aside. The Taranis can put out 15,000 damage in 1 Minute? This is pretty wicked. Anyone confirm, deny, refute this information? :)
- You will miss 100% of the shots you do not take. |
TIO 101
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:27:00 -
[2]
Edited by: TIO 101 on 02/01/2005 18:36:37
Edited by: TIO 101 on 02/01/2005 18:35:59
Im presuming thats with critical hits? Cos my current setup could do 20,000 damage max with criticals off each hit.
EDIT: hangon.
Max Damage Done per gun would be (excluding criticals),
Dam mod x ammo damage,
9.43 (my dam mod :))x 12 (AM damage?) = 113.16
Damage per second would be equal to 113.16 / RoF (1.9 for me) = 59.56
for 3 guns that would be Damage per second = 178.67
Damage per minute (with 3gunz) = 178.67 x 60 = 10,720
If all those hits were criticals total max damage output would be 10,720 x 3
so my case, total damage ever achievable per minute would be 32,161...... ouch
h4xb4n
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:36:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sphalerite on 02/01/2005 18:41:49
You're math is formatted oddly, but with my skills that are similar to that, I get a damage mod on a T2 Neutron of a shade over 8 and a ROF of 1.89. Too lazy to work it out from there. Yes, A Taranis with blasters does a metric crapload of damage, but it's also super easy for anything large to kill and anything small to stay away from.
BTW, Rapid Fire V and SS V are pretty normal skills for dedicated combat pilots to have. also, using damage per minute is rather silly. Anything that can soak up a Taranis for a minute and not kill it is either a cargo can or a fool.
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Fallen Angel
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Fallen Angel on 02/01/2005 18:48:51
Edited by: Fallen Angel on 02/01/2005 18:46:11
Well there is the slight problem that the tarantis has trouble tracking, at its optimal range.
A crusader is better for DOT vs anything but large ships, due to tracking... now readers will be like "but dual light pulse laser IIs only track 2/3" the speed
Well... 2/3 the speed, with 6 times the range, using gamma crystals... 5.9km optimal
The tarantis vs a BS has amazing damage output... I don't understand the compounding interest calculation...
I'll do my own math instead...
8.2 shield, 8.5 to armor, correct? lets average those two together... most people armor tank, so lets lean towards 8.4...
okay, assuming 8.4 is the ammo mod...
*starts churning numbers*
I get 3528 damage per minute
also... lets pretend its up against my battlecruiser... my prophecy... and I have t2 energized resistance platings... 37.5% each... plus theoretically battlecruiser 4...
thats 1764 damage per minute... and I repair 2133 per minute
a minute is a long time 
(edit)
Oh I see my mistake I only included one gun... that still only pushes you to about 10500 per minute...
So yes a tarantis can take a prophecy down, provided that the prophecy doesn't have a -90% web with 8 scout drones and 1 medium, which many do :-P
now lets do the math on a prophecy with 6 heavy pulse lasers using ultraviolet lasers shall we? 
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sphalerite on 02/01/2005 18:50:35
 Originally by: Fallen Angel
Well there is the slight problem that the tarantis has trouble tracking, at its optimal range.
Depends on the situation. If its a frigate that you're close enough to you can just approach and tracking won't be an issue, and if it's something bigger where missile spam isn't going to instanuke your Taranis, you can turn off your MWD while orbiting to boost your own tracking while the crusader might have to keep the speed up to avoid getting hit.
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Buraken
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:54:00 -
[6]
Wow thats amazing
Could someone to the same calc but with a Crusader using 4 Dual light pulse laser II's?
I would really wanna have your babies if you would 
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Cyrus XII
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Posted - 2005.01.02 18:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cyrus XII on 02/01/2005 19:00:14
Originally by: Sphalerite
Edited by: Sphalerite on 02/01/2005 18:41:49
You're math is formatted oddly, but with my skills that are similar to that, I get a damage mod on a T2 Neutron of a shade over 8 and a ROF of 1.89. Too lazy to work it out from there. Yes, A Taranis with blasters does a metric crapload of damage, but it's also super easy for anything large to kill and anything small to stay away from.
BTW, Rapid Fire V and SS V are pretty normal skills for dedicated combat pilots to have. also, using damage per minute is rather silly. Anything that can soak up a Taranis for a minute and not kill it is either a cargo can or a fool.
I agree, but EVE is a very situational game. With a strategy you can figure out who will be easy pickings and who wouldn't. You must pick and choose your battles, and know when to run. If you play it smartly, you can be a real pest and I guess that's just what I'm trying to show. :P
Edit: Maybe later I'll crunch the laser numbers. I'm a big fan of the laserz myself so it should be pretty neat. I didn't do other ships primarily because the Taranis uses a racial bonus instead of the frigate bonus, which makes for a bit easier calculations and also makes it a bit less skill dependant.
- You will miss 100% of the shots you do not take. |
GenocidalSpliff
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Posted - 2005.01.02 19:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: GenocidalSpliff on 02/01/2005 19:09:14
Well i dunno if you have worked it our right, and neither do i know if i have. :)
Light Neutron II
(((4.2 x1.25)x 1.25)x 1.12)x 1.08 = 7.938 dmg mod
(3.5sec x 0.75) x 0.8 = 2.1sec rof (im sure gunnery = tracking?)
60/2.1 = 28.6 shots/min
Antimatter Information:
Kinetic: 7 HP
Thermal: 5 HP
((7+5)x 7.938)x 28.6 = 2724.32dmg/min * 3 = 8172dmg/min = 136.2dmg/sec
compare with ions:
((7+5)x 6.378)x 33.3 = 2548.64dmg/min * 3 = 7646dmg/min = 127.4dmg/sec
Obviously these are inaccurate due to resistances bieng different for different damage types etc but i would say these figures look more realistic. The figures you posted would be nice, but alot of battleship setups dont achieve that. Unless of course im working everything out wrong, in which case you may throw old socks at me.
p.s. i dont have mine handy atm as im taking a break in sunny empire, so theres no chance of me bieng able to look what my dmg mod actualy is, so forgive me :x
2004.08.22 21:03:00 combat Your Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I perfectly strikes callonious [BSC], wrecking for 236.9 damage. |
Cyrus XII
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Posted - 2005.01.02 19:08:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cyrus XII on 02/01/2005 19:08:41
I'm only showing bases. When you take into consideration resitances and such, there are a lot of variations.
The reason I applied the Gunnery skill to the rate of fire was because it read almost identical to the Rapid Fire skill. This might be wrong, so if someone could confirm I'd appreciate it.
Now this makes me turn to the Enyo... hehe
- You will miss 100% of the shots you do not take. |
Buraken
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Posted - 2005.01.02 19:25:00 -
[10]
Gunner 2%
Rapid Firing 5%
--
Could someone to the same calc but with a Crusader using 4 Dual light pulse laser II's? :)
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Cyrus XII
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Posted - 2005.01.02 19:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Buraken
Gunner 2%
Rapid Firing 5%
--
Could someone to the same calc but with a Crusader using 4 Dual light pulse laser II's? :)
Copied and pasted from the Rapid Fire Skill description:
"Skill at fast turret firing. +4% Bonus to Weapon turrets speed."
It's not an issue of what the percentage is. It's a question of what the percetile modifies.
Also, I said I would punch the figures for laserz later on. I've had enough math for the now.
- You will miss 100% of the shots you do not take. |
Farjung
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Posted - 2005.01.02 19:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Farjung on 02/01/2005 20:06:18
Originally by: Cyrus XII
Compounding Interest Formula:
A=P(1+r)^t
Damage per one shot on armor:
20.5+(20.5x0.25)=25.6 <- Racial Bonus
25.6(1+0.05)^5 =32.7 <- Small Hybrid Skill
32.7(1+0.03)^4 =36.8 <- Surgical Strike Skill
36.8(1+0.02)^4 =39.8 <- Specialization Skill
39.8x4.2 =167.2 <- Turret Mod
Shots per second:
3.50-(3.50x0.25)=2.63 <- Racial Bonus
2.63(1-0.04)^4 =2.23 <- Rapid Fire skill
2.23(1-0.02)^5 =2.02 <- Gunnery skill
Damage per minute:
167.2 x 3 = 501.6 damage
60/2.02 = 29.7shots/minute
501.6x29.7= 14897.5damage/minute
Let me push all the numbers aside. The Taranis can put out 15,000 damage in 1 Minute? This is pretty wicked. Anyone confirm, deny, refute this information? :)
The compounding interest formula you're using is not relevant in this case - it might be if you were talking about modules, but skills do not stack exponentially in the fashion you're describing.
E.g., with small hybrid turret 5 you're getting 1 + 5 x 0.05 = 1.25, not 1.05^5 = 1.276. A small difference, but as you're doing it with several things the differences build up.
I'm also not at all sure what this "total shield"/"total base" of 20.2/20.5 figure you're using is.
Edit: I realised there might be some confusion over what I initially said, so an example might be clearer:
Small hybrid 5: (1 + 5 x 0.05) = 1.25
Surgical strike 4: (1 + 4 x 0.03) = 1.12
Total effect: Original damage x 1.25 x 1.12
So, skills multiply with each other, but not within themselves. (It's not 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 for small hybrid 5.)
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
MinnieME
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:07:00 -
[13]
Could this be done for the claw as well ?  . Curious how it'll compare if at all 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: j0sephine on 02/01/2005 20:30:15
"Antimatter Information:
Kinetic: 7 HP
Thermal: 5 HP
Base Shield: 8.2
Base Armor: 8.5
Total Shield: 20.2
Total Base: 20.5"
You have a mistake right here.
'Base shield' and 'base armour' simply tells you how much of total damage of the bullet (which is 7+5 = 12) gets 'through' the 'standard' resistances of shield and armour, respectively. You don't add these values to kinetic and thermal damage of the hybrid shell.
So, the damage from small antimatter round is average of base shield damage (8.2) and base armour damage (8.5) ... not 20+ hp
So, the end damage output is ~2.45 times lower than what you calculated ( ~92.5 hp/sec, about 5.5 k hp/min to be more exact ) But it's still equivalent of 4 tachyon beam lasers mounted on Apocalypse, so definitely not something to laugh at... -.^
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:30:00 -
[15]
My Taranis went boombang tonight 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Shimatu
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cyrus XII
Antimatter Information:
Kinetic: 7 HP
Thermal: 5 HP
Base Shield: 8.2
Base Armor: 8.5
Total Shield: 20.2
Total Base: 20.5
erm, no.
the way that works is:
AM ammo does 6 kinetic, and 5 thermal. the 'base shield'/'base armour' stats are the damage that it would do to shields/armour with standard resists.
so bluntly, the total shield damage per shot is 8.2 not 20.2, about 40%. This change would echo through all your calcs, meaning instead of the 15000 damage you calculated, it instead does about 6000. which is about 100dps, which is still astoundingly high (a raven with EM torps will do about 300 dps to unhardened shields, so about 150dps to averagely tanked ship).
so...where was a i going with this... ah yes, you did the calcs on damage per charge wrong, but yes the taranis puts out a vast amount of damage :)
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 02/01/2005 20:30:15
"Antimatter Information:
Kinetic: 7 HP
Thermal: 5 HP
Base Shield: 8.2
Base Armor: 8.5
Total Shield: 20.2
Total Base: 20.5"
You have a mistake right here.
'Base shield' and 'base armour' simply tells you how much of total damage of the bullet (which is 7+5 = 12) gets 'through' the 'standard' resistances of shield and armour, respectively. You don't add these values to kinetic and thermal damage of the hybrid shell.
So, the damage from small antimatter round is average of base shield damage (8.2) and base armour damage (8.5) ... not 20+ hp
So, the end damage output is ~2.45 times lower than what you calculated ( ~92.5 hp/sec, about 5.5 k hp/min to be more exact ) But it's still equivalent of 4 tachyon beam lasers mounted on Apocalypse, so definitely not something to laugh at... -.^
damn you and your speediness! i thought i was safe from someone else posting on the same thing at the same time... the threads been here ages without anyone noticing :P
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Farjung on 02/01/2005 20:54:07
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 02/01/2005 20:30:15
You have a mistake right here.
'Base shield' and 'base armour' simply tells you how much of total damage of the bullet (which is 7+5 = 12) gets 'through' the 'standard' resistances of shield and armour, respectively. You don't add these values to kinetic and thermal damage of the hybrid shell.
So, the damage from small antimatter round is average of base shield damage (8.2) and base armour damage (8.5) ... not 20+ hp
Oh I see. Couldn't for the life of me work out where those 20.x numbers were coming from.
I'll redo your numbers for you with those skills quickly.
Base armor damage: 8.5
Stock damage multiplier: 4.2x
Small hybrid 5: 1.25x
Small blaster spec 4: 1.08x
Surgical strike 4: 1.12x
Race bonus: 1.25x
Damage per shot to unhardened armor (ignoring racial resists) after boni:
8.5 x 4.2 x 1.25 x 1.08 x 1.12 x 1.25 = 67.473
Base RoF: 3.5s
Gunnery 5: 0.9x
Rapid firing 4: 0.84x
Racial bonus: 0.75x
Rate of fire after boni: 3.5 x 0.9 x 0.84 x 0.75 = 1.9845s
DoT per light neut II: 67.473/1.9845 = 34 hp/sec = 2,040 hp/min
DoT for three light neut II: 3 x 35.7 = 102 hp/sec = 6,120 hp/min
Edit: used rapid firing 5 instead of 4 by mistake first time round, fixed.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Sphalerite
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Posted - 2005.01.02 20:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sphalerite on 02/01/2005 20:47:39
Originally by: MinnieME
Could this be done for the claw as well ? . Curious how it'll compare if at all
Comparing my Claw and Taranis side by side with all relevent skills at the same level, a tech II 250 has the same damage mod and a ROF 2.42 times longer than a tech II neutron.
For shorter range, fusion actually has a better armor damage average than antimatter, so tracking and the short range aside, you'll do something like 40% of the damage. With a more realistic Proton or DU you'll do closer to 25%.
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Cyrus XII
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Posted - 2005.01.04 01:44:00 -
[20]
Ahh.. I see. I wasn't sure how the percentages stacked. And I had asked some others on the ammo-dmg issue. I'll spread the word. Still good damage though. heh, 15k was too sick to be true. Thanks for your help guys!
- You will miss 100% of the shots you do not take. |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.01.04 02:04:00 -
[21]
That is the consequence of dual damage bonuses on a gallente ship... simply insane damage. The damage is comparable to a Thorax with medium ions. Its a good thing the Taranis is slow, and you can escape blaster range while webbed.
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2005.01.04 02:11:00 -
[22]
with skills everything that affects one attrib of something gets stacked. so its acctually (0.05*5)+(0.02*4) etc
this is because there is no skill hirearchy.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.01.04 04:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Selim
That is the consequence of dual damage bonuses on a gallente ship... simply insane damage. The damage is comparable to a Thorax with medium ions. Its a good thing the Taranis is slow, and you can escape blaster range while webbed.
I am just wondering why the hell you use medium ions on a thorax? And the taranis is a fast ship, i am just also wondering how you would get away from a taranis when both of you are webbed?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.01.04 04:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sphalerite
Edited by: Sphalerite on 02/01/2005 20:47:39
Originally by: MinnieME
Could this be done for the claw as well ? . Curious how it'll compare if at all
Comparing my Claw and Taranis side by side with all relevent skills at the same level, a tech II 250 has the same damage mod and a ROF 2.42 times longer than a tech II neutron.
Why are you comparing long and short range guns? Autocannon vs Neutron...
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Sphalerite
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Posted - 2005.01.04 05:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sphalerite
Edited by: Sphalerite on 02/01/2005 20:47:39
Originally by: MinnieME
Could this be done for the claw as well ? . Curious how it'll compare if at all
Comparing my Claw and Taranis side by side with all relevent skills at the same level, a tech II 250 has the same damage mod and a ROF 2.42 times longer than a tech II neutron.
Why are you comparing long and short range guns? Autocannon vs Neutron...
Because I use 250s on my claw instead of 200s. Feel free to post your own relevent numbers. Stats from actual combat fittings are more useful that graphs and lists of computed numbers.
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.01.04 11:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elrathias
with skills everything that affects one attrib of something gets stacked. so its acctually (0.05*5)+(0.02*4) etc
this is because there is no skill hirearchy.
Your notation isn't very clear, but if I'm understanding it correctly you're saying that (I think this is the example you're using in this case) small hybrid 5 and small blaster spec 4 would give you (.05*5)+(.02*4) = .33 or 33% increased damage.
This isn't the case as far as I know - it stacks, but it stacks multiplicatively rather than additively, ie base damage x (1+(.05*5)) x (1+(.02*4)) = base damage x 1.35 or 35% increased damage. Again, order of bonuses is not relevant.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.01.04 13:29:00 -
[27]
Edited by: lythos miralbar on 04/01/2005 13:29:05
Quote:
I am just wondering why the hell you use medium ions on a thorax? And the taranis is a fast ship, i am just also wondering how you would get away from a taranis when both of you are webbed?
You have to tool up specificly for the job of killing a taranis.. but in theory it can be done in most frigs if your lucky.
I've never done this, but it should work.
Take any frig and fit two webbers to it.. the best you can find, and if you got 4 slots stick a warp scram/disrupt in the extra one (I'm assuming there is also a mwd fitted).
Next fill your low slots with whatever you want, maybe cap stuff, maybe dammage stuff....
And lastly stick any weapons you want on EXCEPT blasters. they should pref have an optimal range of about 7.5 km.
Tactics = As soon as you see your target, got straight for orbit at 7.5km with the mwd engaged.
As soon as you can slap both webbers on him and warp disrupt/scam him... then start firing.
He'll be completely gimped.. you should be well outside his optimal and falloff. and hes stuck there 
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Odet
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Posted - 2005.01.04 15:09:00 -
[28]
the only way to fit 3x small neutron 2's on a taranis is gimping your setup.
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.01.04 18:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Selim
That is the consequence of dual damage bonuses on a gallente ship... simply insane damage. The damage is comparable to a Thorax with medium ions. Its a good thing the Taranis is slow, and you can escape blaster range while webbed.
I am just wondering why the hell you use medium ions on a thorax? And the taranis is a fast ship, i am just also wondering how you would get away from a taranis when both of you are webbed?
Who said I used medium ions on a Thorax? Who even said I USED a Thorax?
Most interceptors are faster than the Taranis, you can quite effectively get out of blaster optimal range within a few seconds, when its in falloff it won't hurt as much.
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Seraph Demon
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Posted - 2005.01.04 19:38:00 -
[30]
for your viewing pleasure: Claw with 200s (mind you I prefer 150s for tracking reasons)
200mm autocannon II base damage/tracking: 2.1/2.5 = 0.84
Autocannon spec lvl 4: 1.08 * 0.84 = 0.9072
Small Proj lvl 5: 1.25 * 0.9072 = 1.134
Claw DMG Bonus: 1.25 * 1.134 = 1.4175
Motion Prediction lvl 5: 1.4175/0.8 = 1.771875
Gunnery lvl 5: 1.771875/0.9 = 1.96875
Claw ROF Bonus: 1.96875/0.75 = 2.625
AVG dmg for EMP: 7.4
7.4 * 2.625 * 3 = 58.275 damage per second
Claw damage per minute = 58.275 * 60 = 3496.5
Autos have worse tracking, but better falloff, so they're quite effective at 3-5km.
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