Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 06/10/2010 17:15:31
That's right, I'm looking for someone to take over EACS. With the exception of short hiatus due to hardware issues, I have accepted applications and kicked members daily for over 650 days, or 22 months. Unfortunately my situation will soon be such that I can no longer commit to such a regular presence. To prevent EACS from closing down, I see two options.
Firstly, I keep full control over EACS and have some grunt do all the applications and kicking. The grunt would be paid from the donations EACS gets. This option does not appeal to me. I am somewhat of a control-freak, so this would likely cause me some stress. Though I have no doubt that there would be many people willing and able to do this, the responsibility of finding the right person would lie with me. Furthermore I would have the check if this person is doing the job right, and find someone else if he underperforms or quits. I prefer not to take this upon me.
Secondly, I could sell EACS, giving the new owner full control over the service, including running and changing it as he wishes. This brings up the issue of how to value a free service (which was touched upon in a thread last week). I will be providing some stats below to make valuing EACS a bit less of guesswork. This option has the advantage that I won't be involved in the business at all any more.
Some background EACS is EVE's leading jumpclone service. It is essentially a monopolist; there is only one other active jumpclone service I'm aware of (run by Genji Ancient) and by the amount of feedback provided in its thread it appears to have lost many of its customers since EACS was launched. At least three other jumpclone services, including a free one with more facilities than EACS (by Cyber Broker), have been started and gone out of business in the period EACS was active.
EACS has jumpclone-grade standings to 49 NPC corporations and offers access to medical services in 1092 stations, which is 70% to 75% of all publicly accessible jumpclone facilities ingame. EACS is currently marketed as an easy to use, free jumpclone service. This a choice made by me; it is certainly not the only viable business model. EACS has an excellent reputation. It has been mentioned in the news on the login page three times û each time resulting in a sustained increase in users û and on third party websites such as Tentonhammer. On official and unoffical forums EACS is often recommended.
Let's talk money. Some people choose to donate after using the service, usually between 1M and 10M per donation though some people have made very generous donations up to 100M. In 22 months, EACS has received 5833M isk in donations, which is an average of 265M per month. Though the amount donated varies per day from 0 to 100M, the amount is pretty stable of 30 day periods. The minimum for any 30-day period is 230M, the maximum for any 30-day period is 477M. EACS has no operating costs at all, other than time needed to run it. Offices are no longer needed (they were during the first year of operation, when I spent up to 100M a month in office fees).
EACS has 100.000 shares. I have sold 958 of these shares at 1M per. All other shares are owned by me and my alts. Anyone taking over EACS should expect getting 99.000 of 100.000 shares.
Other jumpclone services charge or charged between 5M and 15M per user. Such a business model would likely result in less users but a higher income. MicanG reported his service Dark Reality had over 1700 users over the course of 18 months which, at 15M per user, is over 26B.
Comments on how to handle this situation and especially thoughts on valuing the business will be appreciated. If you'd like to make me an offer, you can do so here or send me an evemail.
(Note: due the character limit I have not included links to other threads/sites. If EVE-search or Google fails you, let me know.)
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:20:00 -
[2]
Since most of us haven't run jump clone services, maybe you could expand on exactly what would be expected of an operator.
|
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:41:00 -
[3]
I know you don't like the first option but since you slready own the shares just appoint a director with no standings and he does the grunt work, since you don't care about the isk him having access to the corp wallet measn nothing.
|
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 06/10/2010 17:58:48
Originally by: Claire Voyant Since most of us haven't run jump clone services, maybe you could expand on exactly what would be expected of an operator.
Of course. Basic operation is quite simple, and consists of two tasks: 1) people send in applications to the corp, these apps have to be accepted (one by one, there is no other way). I usually do this once or twice a day. The average number of applications per day is over 25. 2) people who are overstaying their welcome have to be kicked from the corp. I do this once a day. The limit I've set is 4 days. This means that tonight between 2200 and 2400 game time I will kick anyone who has joined on October 2nd if they're still in the corp. Usually this is 4 or 5 people.
If you would operate the service on a fee basis, the step of accepting applications would be preceded by checking who actually paid the fee. (This hassle is one of the reasons why chose for a free model.)
Apart from this, there's publicity which has to be handled, which for me comes down to bumping/maintaining the forum thread.
Answering questions of users is optional. Usually users answer each other's questions in corp chat, which is quite handy I've also written a comprehensive guide to jumpclones which answers most questions, so if I get a question I usually refer to that.
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:19:00 -
[5]
Sad to see you go mate, hope someone continues your legacy :)
|
Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:43:00 -
[6]
The number one problem I see is that the biggest asset of EACS is its name which is recognized widely among EVE players (probably only comparable to BIG in this regard) and that name is tied to the name of your character...
If someone were to take over the service he would obviously want to keep that name (while maybe converting EACS to a paid-only service or launching other income-generating services under the same brand-name). This might lead to nasty disputes in case you don't agree with his ideas - up to the risk of you invoking anti-impersonation policies and having the corpname changed, thus destroying the most important asset of the service.
For that reason I would suggest either to go with the "grunt" model or sell the "Estel Arador" character to the person who takes over the service.
|
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton If someone were to take over the service he would obviously want to keep that name (while maybe converting EACS to a paid-only service or launching other income-generating services under the same brand-name). This might lead to nasty disputes in case you don't agree with his ideas - up to the risk of you invoking anti-impersonation policies and having the corpname changed, thus destroying the most important asset of the service.
For that reason I would suggest either to go with the "grunt" model or sell the "Estel Arador" character to the person who takes over the service.
I agree, the name probably is the biggest asset. One of the reasons I prefer a sale of the service is that I won't have to disagree with ideas. If someone else owns it, it's his to do with as he pleases. I don't think anti-impersonation policies would apply. The corp name is Estel Arador Corp Services, owning a corp with a name is not the same as impersonating a character. Plus there's a public record of the sale of the corp with that name which could be provided as evidence in any investigation.
And though I'm not one to make categorical statements, selling the character would be out of the question.
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Ave Volta
Perkone
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:08:00 -
[8]
First, thanks for the service. Looking at my employment history I used it in mid-2009. I think it's impressive that a donation based service gather decent revenue.
Second, I have always been curious of your methed to achieve high standings with so many corps?
Third, good luck with the transition and and with any future endeavors.
--------------------------------
chown -R us:us /yourbase |
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Estel Arador Edited by: Estel Arador on 06/10/2010 17:58:48
Originally by: Claire Voyant Since most of us haven't run jump clone services, maybe you could expand on exactly what would be expected of an operator.
Of course. Basic operation is quite simple, and consists of two tasks: 1) people send in applications to the corp, these apps have to be accepted (one by one, there is no other way). I usually do this once or twice a day. The average number of applications per day is over 25. 2) people who are overstaying their welcome have to be kicked from the corp. I do this once a day. The limit I've set is 4 days. This means that tonight between 2200 and 2400 game time I will kick anyone who has joined on October 2nd if they're still in the corp. Usually this is 4 or 5 people.
If you would operate the service on a fee basis, the step of accepting applications would be preceded by checking who actually paid the fee. (This hassle is one of the reasons why chose for a free model.)
Apart from this, there's publicity which has to be handled, which for me comes down to bumping/maintaining the forum thread.
Answering questions of users is optional. Usually users answer each other's questions in corp chat, which is quite handy I've also written a comprehensive guide to jumpclones which answers most questions, so if I get a question I usually refer to that.
And corp standing never changes? What would happen if you leave the corp? I would have thought that the director character would have to be a no-standing alt and members would have to be admitted right after DT and booted before the next DT. I guess I am out of it.
|
Nathan Jameson
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:32:00 -
[10]
I do hauling from time to time for those in my corp, and I've noticed that simply asking for tips always nets me more income than if I haggle a set price for the trip. Apparently, not wanting to look cheap is a great incentive.
There have actually been restaurants that ran on a tip-only system, and they reported actually earning more money than if they had charged normally for their meals. (I can't find a link at this moment.)
I would not personally want the hassle of EACS, but I think whoever does take the reigns should seriously consider maintaining the free, donation-only system.
|
|
Luxotor
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:40:00 -
[11]
Just wanted to express my appreciation for an excellent service and good luck. o7. ---------------
Make lowsec useful! |
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ave Volta I have always been curious of your methed to achieve high standings with so many corps?
Running lots of missions, and having other people who ran lots of mission 'rub off' their standings to EACS.
Originally by: Claire Voyant And corp standing never changes? What would happen if you leave the corp? I would have thought that the director character would have to be a no-standing alt and members would have to be admitted right after DT and booted before the next DT. I guess I am out of it.
The mechanics you're describing are old.
Members only affect corp standing once they're in the corp for 7 days. During the first 7 days, they will have no effect at all; after 7 days they will be counted fully in the calculation for corp standing (so there's no gradual change any more). That's why I set a limit of 4 days. It gives me 2 to 3 days to kick a member, so if I for some reason don't kick people on one day, I still have room to catch up.
Since the operator character stays in the corp for more than 7 days, it will have to be an alt with no standings.
As for the question "What would happen if you leave the corp?", I am no longer in the corp, and haven't been for much of the time EACS has been operating. I handle everything with an alt (Estel Also).
Originally by: Nathan Jameson I would not personally want the hassle of EACS, but I think whoever does take the reigns should seriously consider maintaining the free, donation-only system.
Indeed the free model is profitable, but I'm not sure if it's more profitable than a paid model. To earn 3B a year with a fee of 5M, you'd only need 23 users per week, which is less than the number of users EACS currently has per day.
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:45:00 -
[13]
So would you like people to get in contact with you in game or how? I have a free alt spot:D.
|
Zia Pow
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:33:00 -
[14]
If someone was to buy EACS from you, with the intent of keeping it a free service, what assets if any or support features are included?
What support would you yourself offer and for how long?
Ego - Epeen - Eve The 3 Amigos of the MMO world. |
egola
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: egola on 06/10/2010 22:56:29 it would be a waste to have eacs go down the drain, i mean a couple of us could help ya with the administrative sector, i for one am willing to take an alt and start kicking people for ya, although ill have to make a new one with no standings to anything. i can work on 2-3 days a week, maybe we can have someone else to fill in the other days?
|
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 06/10/2010 23:11:04
Originally by: Jimmy Duce So would you like people to get in contact with you in game or how? I have a free alt spot:D.
I will wait a day or two to see what responses I get here in this thread and ingame; I will then decide on a course of action. I will contact everyone who has expressed interest once it's clear what I'll be doing exactly. Given the amount of interest so far (6 people messaged me ingame in the past hours, plus the interest in this thread) I might go for an auction, but all options are still on the table. Please don't hesitate to give your opinion on the valuation or transfer process.
Originally by: Zia Pow If someone was to buy EACS from you, with the intent of keeping it a free service, what assets if any or support features are included?
What support would you yourself offer and for how long?
Any sale would include the corp and 99.000 of 100.000 shares. I'm willing to provide the full historical data on users and donations per day as well.
As for support, I'll be available to show the new person the ropes, of course. It's not a complicated business, so I wouldn't expect this to last very long, perhaps a week or two. I can also offer some advice on marketing.
Originally by: egola it would be a waste to have eacs go down the drain, i mean a couple of us could help ya with the administrative sector, i for one am willing to take an alt and start kicking people for ya, although ill have to make a new one with no standings to anything. i can work on 2-3 days a week, maybe we can have someone else to fill in the other days?
Thanks for your support and interest. However, this is exactly the kind of construction I'd like to avoid.
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Zia Pow
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:14:00 -
[17]
I hate to ask this, but whats to keep you from just restarting and reselling copy corps every few weeks?
Ego - Epeen - Eve The 3 Amigos of the MMO world. |
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zia Pow I hate to ask this, but whats to keep you from just restarting and reselling copy corps every few weeks?
A fair question, and the very simple answer is: I can't. EACS has jumpclone grade standings to 49 of the largest corporations of all races, this has been achieved not only by using my own standings, but also the standings of 4 other characters - carefully applied in such a way as to not mess up the upgrade another character did. I cannot copy this. I personally only have jumpclone grade standings to 18 corporations, most Minmatar and some Gallente (plus Caldari Navy), that's a huge difference with what EACS has.
Free universal jumpclone service: 10.000 users! |
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:23:00 -
[19]
1) He obvisouls can answer for himself but he doesn't have all the standings, some of the standings came from other people. 2) He isn't currently in the corp and there are other jumpclone services this is just the most famos.
I'd prefer if you didn't do an auction. If you'd like to keep it free atleast try the voulenteer director option for a few days/weeks first.
Yes it is a great money making opportunity but you don't see to care about the isk you just seem to want the corp to keep running. Get a few of us by whatever filter process you wish and make us directors. We'd work out the details and then you come every so often and check if we screwed with your vision. You keep the shares and control, an we do the hardwork.
I didn't use your services, but know many people who have and are greatful so I'd like to see it kept running as it is as best as possible.
|
Zia Pow
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:27:00 -
[20]
I'm interested in purchasing it and keeping it FREE, and running it just as its always been run. However that brings us strait to the question of Non Profit Value vs Profit value, and we all know the profit guys carry huge purses.
Ego - Epeen - Eve The 3 Amigos of the MMO world. |
|
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zia Pow I'm interested in purchasing it and keeping it FREE, and running it just as its always been run. However that brings us strait to the question of Non Profit Value vs Profit value, and we all know the profit guys carry huge purses.
This is why I don't think it should be sold. The profit potential for this is quite limitless, as limitless as anything is in the game. And besides even if some benovolent rich person say an Entity or Chribba :D were to come along there is no guareentee of what they would do after they have control. The day to day running of the corp you nolonger have to do but if in a weeks or month's time you don't like what it has become retainning control, assuming you aren't quitting the game, is your best option.
|
Doll
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:33:00 -
[22]
Hey Estel,
I'm sure you could use your well-earned reputation to start a 3rd party service if you wanted to. If I were you, I would probably keep the jump clone service running until the 3rd party service was well under way, and then try to offload or gradually shut down the jump clone service.
|
Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:00:00 -
[23]
I think you have 3 options:
1) Keep running the service yourself, but reduce your personal commitment. Announce that you'll accept all apps on saturday and boot people still sitting around on Wednesday. A lag time is fine if people can anticipate it.
2) Shut it down until you have the time to run it yourself
3) Sell the corp to someone who wants to run it for profit. The massive amount of jumpclone locations is a pretty nifty draw.
I personally don't think handing it over for free or having a director do stuff for you would work. They'll screw it up or do something which annoys you and drama will ensue. Better to either keep it for yourself in some manner or sell it and separate yourself from it entirely.
|
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran I think you have 3 options:
I personally don't think handing it over for free or having a director do stuff for you would work. They'll screw it up or do something which annoys you and drama will ensue. Better to either keep it for yourself in some manner or sell it and separate yourself from it entirely.
What's to screw up, accept app-> boot person. This isn't a corp that needs activities it just needs accept-> boot. No argument, no blues, no roles nothing, no politics. How can someone mess it up.
|
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
1) Keep running the service yourself, but reduce your personal commitment. Announce that you'll accept all apps on saturday and boot people still sitting around on Wednesday. A lag time is fine if people can anticipate it.
This could work if you only have a limited time.
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:42:00 -
[26]
This is a great service and has a great reputation, unfortunately it is not good at generating a good financial return.
Lets Talk Money
In MD the minimum returns are expected to be at least 3% per month. According to your calculations you are expecting 100B ISK to buy the business. The problem is that the business has returned 5.83B ISK in 22 months or 265M ISK per month.
At my 3% per month return valuation (3% is minimum for blue chip businesses) I put a value on EACS of 8.33B.
There is obviously some good will built into the business, and new owners would look to change the business plan to monetize the service but that leaves a huge difference in the two values.
The primary difficulties for new owners will be:
1. To keep the brand value of EACS now that the original owner has left. 2. Generate income from a new business model.
One other thing you don't mention in any of your posts is how much time do you have to spend administering the business,. I am assuming this is time intensive as you have to keep updating posts and accepting members to the corp/alliance.
|
Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran I think you have 3 options:
I personally don't think handing it over for free or having a director do stuff for you would work. They'll screw it up or do something which annoys you and drama will ensue. Better to either keep it for yourself in some manner or sell it and separate yourself from it entirely.
What's to screw up, accept app-> boot person. This isn't a corp that needs activities it just needs accept-> boot. No argument, no blues, no roles nothing, no politics. How can someone mess it up.
They get busy/distracted/whatever and forget to boot people. Tada, standings ruined.
|
Jimmy Duce
Navy of Xoc
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 01:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran I think you have 3 options:
They get busy/distracted/whatever and forget to boot people. Tada, standings ruined.
Nice alliance name :D. Which is why he should accept a couple of us. Four people saying we'll cover 2 days each, if one gets bust you have built in redundancy.
|
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 02:55:00 -
[29]
Sorry to see you shutting EACS down/selling it (which will likely lead to it shutting down :( )
As my corp actually runs it's own jump clone services (we have two corps we maintain very high standings with to keep empire jump clone services for our members) I can totally relate to the level of attention it requires to keep jump clone services in as many locations as EACS does :) I wish you luck in finding a capable owner/operator for the service. Would be a shame to see it close down. While my corp members don't require it's services it will suck for all those who do if it can't be kept running.
Market Alerts Mailing List
|
Noun Verber
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 03:46:00 -
[30]
Please be a troll
What if you had a team of 'grunts'? I'd volunteer to be one, as I don't think that I could keep up the daily requirement that you have done (which also seems to be the reason that you're leaving).
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |