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"Microtransaction" madness

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Mocam	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:41:00 - [31] It deals with degrees of toxicity. Some have higher tolerances than others do. Think of it like you would booze. A shot can work to take the edge off. A pint tends to be a bit much for most and drinking a full fifth/liter usually ends up with someone puking their guts out or worse. It's personal tolerance we're looking at and where the whines are coming from. A funny thing I don't see talked about is the "cosmetics" aspect of the conversation. Where in EVE do you see cosmetics right now? ... So all these microtransaction concerns... First they'll have to put cosmetic effects in the game -- that will take development time and effort. Then those cosmetics will need to be seen as valuable by the community -- that's refocusing where the community finds value in the game. So a good deal will need to change to get microtransactions for cosmetics instituted in EVE and the dev/focus shift is liable to be a tad annoying to those that would prefer to see functional aspects of the game improved instead of haircuts, tattoo reworking, shoes and home furnishings. If it takes too long, don't be overly surprised if other more functional changes are implemented while they wait for the store to be setup for cosmetics. Big deal. Keep an eye on the changes and see what comes down the pipe. Hopefully it won't be a sewer outlet.
Alt FTW	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Yet they whine about the remapping option. How incredibly dumb must one be to complain about this feature ? [incoherent stuff] There are ******s to whine about it, WTF has happened to this community ? Nice. Stay classy. Why does disagreeing with others (about a space-game, for heaven's sake!) so often lead to insults? The anonymity of the interwebs does truly scary things to people like the OP.
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:43:00 - [33] Originally by: Lexxxii So, is this 1. A suggestion put forward by some player 2. A confirmed plan from CCP 3. Some rumour that someone started CCP has stated that 1) Remaps will be available for real life cash (PLEXes) in Incursion. Remaps are already purchasable on Singularity using PLEXes. 2) "Vanity items" will also be available using real life cash (PLEXes).
Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Nullity CCP has stated that 1) Remaps will be available for real life cash (PLEXes) in Incursion. Remaps are already purchasable on Singularity using PLEXes. 2) "Vanity items" will also be available using real life cash (PLEXes). Correction, CCP (T0rfi) has stated that they are looking into MT's and that they are introducing plex for remaps. Originally by: Eurogame article Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills? Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game. That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game. We will evolve just like everyone else. We will certainly not become a dinosaur. That has not been our style Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:56:00 - [35] Originally by: Illwill Bill Originally by: Nullity CCP has stated that 1) Remaps will be available for real life cash (PLEXes) in Incursion. Remaps are already purchasable on Singularity using PLEXes. 2) "Vanity items" will also be available using real life cash (PLEXes). Correction, CCP (T0rfi) has stated that they are looking into MT's and that they are introducing plex for remaps. Originally by: Eurogame article Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills? Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game. That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game. We will evolve just like everyone else. We will certainly not become a dinosaur. That has not been our style True, they might not come out and say that they're bringing in vanity MTs, but you can pretty much assume that's the next step now.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:33:00 - [36] Edited by: CyberGh0st on 08/10/2010 12:34:24 Originally by: Nullity It's good to see that other people understand this distinction, as it's the crux of the MT problem for me. I don't want CCP spawning items into the game for me because I gave them extra money. I don't care if those items are remap credits, SPs, or ISK. I can sort of tolerate vanity items, but I frankly don't trust CCP to restrict themselves to just vanity items, and I feel even those should be player created only. Even if the microtransactions are only for the vanity items, it sucks hard, I mean in SWG we used to create so much fluff, there was a whole economy around it. I thought Incarna would be about something like that, like if you want to change your face, you take surgery from a docter in a station, or if you want a tattoo, you go to a tattoo shop. Or if you want to give your ship a different color you go to the garage inside a station, thus everything by the players for the players. But all of this is probably out of the question now, because people will use microtransactions for that. http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE
Herrring Amarr Space Pinatas Co.	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:35:00 - [37] I bought a battle ship by selling plexes that i bought from ccp last year. Does this count?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Herrring I bought a battle ship by selling plexes that i bought from ccp last year. Does this count? No. That battleship was produced in accordance with the in-game balancing mechanics that limit the availability of battleships, and using the industry and market gameplay that sits at the very core of the game. That's quite different from buying the battleship from CCP and thus bypassing the whole industry and trading part. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
My Postman	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:52:00 - [39] I stopped reading the OP when saying "giving direct advantage...bla bla" And you think this is a good thing? You got an advantage because you spent Ç 10 and the other guy did¦nt (could not afford it)? That is why the comm is at rage lvl 1050. Nobody wants this s***. Stop posting. Get a clue.
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Herrring I bought a battle ship by selling plexes that i bought from ccp last year. Does this count? No. That battleship was produced in accordance with the in-game balancing mechanics that limit the availability of battleships, and using the industry and market gameplay that sits at the very core of the game. That's quite different from buying the battleship from CCP and thus bypassing the whole industry and trading part. Keep pushing your head up your ass and eventually you might see out of your own mouth. This is most obviously your goal...

Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:57:00 - [41] Same as RMT, yes, but it is not the same as microtransactions. You bought an item that can be converted into game time from CCP. This item was the sold by you to another player by the use of market forces. The ISK you got from selling this item was then used to purchase another in-game item. When buying an item in through microtransactions, you buy that item at a fixed price. This by-passes in-game market forces and sets a fixed price for the item in question. As the supply is usually unlimited when dealing with MT's, the market for that item, or related items, is destroyed. Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.08 12:59:00 - [42] Originally by: My Postman I stopped reading the OP when saying "giving direct advantage...bla bla" And you think this is a good thing? You got an advantage because you spent Ç 10 and the other guy did¦nt (could not afford it)? That is why the comm is at rage lvl 1050. Nobody wants this s***. Stop posting. Get a clue. My Point really... @Cupio: She IS right though
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Illwill Bill Same as RMT, yes, but it is not the same as microtransactions. You bought an item that can be converted into game time from CCP. This item was the sold by you to another player by the use of market forces. The ISK you got from selling this item was then used to purchase another in-game item. When buying an item in through microtransactions, you buy that item at a fixed price. This by-passes in-game market forces and sets a fixed price for the item in question. As the supply is usually unlimited when dealing with MT's, the market for that item, or related items, is destroyed. Isk is property of CCP. Regardless what toon holds it, how it came to be, how many hands your virtual dollars passed through, it is CCP's intellectual property. People are acting like ISK is somehow their actual posession, when it's just not. CCP owns isk, CCP owns PLEX, CCP gets paid for PLEX and the isk CCP has available in Eve then becomes purchased via resellers of PLEX. It's a microtransaction masked as RMT to make the elite douchetaco's feel somehow superior to other MMO's. It works, too well.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:01:00 - [44] Edited by: Tippia on 08/10/2010 13:06:32 Originally by: Cupio Mortem Keep pushing your head up your ass and eventually you might see out of your own mouth. This is most obviously your goal... So you actually agree, then, seeing as how you can't think of a single counter-argument and instead have to attack the person. Good. Quote: Isk is property of CCP. Regardless what toon holds it, how it came to be, how many hands your virtual dollars passed through, it is CCP's intellectual property. People are acting like ISK is somehow their actual posession, when it's just not. CCP owns isk, CCP owns PLEX, CCP gets paid for PLEX and the isk CCP has available in Eve then becomes purchased via resellers of PLEX. You're missing the point: it doesn't matter who owns it ù what matters is how it's created. MT kills the in-game market dead, because it completely bypasses it; the RMT way still uses aaaaall the mechanics, and the limits and balances that come with them. The PLEX →à→ item route is not a microtransaction because the game imposes limits on availability. It doesn't matter how much $$$áyou sink into it ù if the item currently cannot be had in the game, you can't get it; under an MT scheme, one would spawn for you immediately. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:04:00 - [45] Has anyone thought that CCP owned toons themselves could be purchasing PLEX off the market with artifically injected isk? What happens to the argument it's not a microtransaction if this very real possibility is true, exactly?
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 08/10/2010 13:04:22 Originally by: Cupio Mortem Keep pushing your head up your ass and eventually you might see out of your own mouth. This is most obviously your goal... So you actually agree, then, seeing as how you can't think of a single counter-argument and instead have to attack the person. Good. By not specifying what I agreed with, you've managed to agree your head is near toncil-level up your own ass. Good.
Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:14:00 - [47] Originally by: Cupio Mortem Isk is property of CCP. Regardless what toon holds it, how it came to be, how many hands your virtual dollars passed through, it is CCP's intellectual property. People are acting like ISK is somehow their actual posession, when it's just not. CCP owns isk, CCP owns PLEX, CCP gets paid for PLEX and the isk CCP has available in Eve then becomes purchased via resellers of PLEX. It's a microtransaction masked as RMT to make the elite douchetaco's feel somehow superior to other MMO's. It works, too well. Absolutely! The ownership of the in-game bits and zeroes is not disputed here. What we are discussing here are the potential implications of the in-game market if CCP decides to sell non-vanity items and thereby bypass the market forces. Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Cupio Mortem By not specifying what I agreed with, you've managed to agree your head is near toncil-level up your own ass. You didn't argue anything, so the only possible conclusion is that you agree with everything I said. That's (generally) swell and all, but your debating style is lacking so I would rather you kept quiet, because you risk hurting my side of the argument by mere association. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cupio Mortem By not specifying what I agreed with, you've managed to agree your head is near toncil-level up your own ass. You didn't argue anything, so the only possible conclusion is that you agree with everything I said. That's (generally) swell and all, but your debating style is lacking so I would rather you kept quiet, because you risk hurting my side of the argument by mere association. Thats funny, Logic and Facts have the same effect. Is your last name Palin or O'Donnell?
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:22:00 - [50] Edited by: Cupio Mortem on 08/10/2010 13:23:05 Originally by: Illwill Bill Absolutely! The ownership of the in-game bits and zeroes is not disputed here. What we are discussing here are the potential implications of the in-game market if CCP decides to sell non-vanity items and thereby bypass the market forces. Well, while we're at it, let's also discuss if CCP decides to allow Isk for co¬aine shipment type transactions. It has every bit as much of a foundation in reality as the current argument being posed. For the record, I'm ALL FOR IT!

Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:25:00 - [51] Originally by: Cupio Mortem Well, while we're at it, let's also discuss if CCP decides to allow Isk for co¬aine shipment type transactions. It has every bit as much of a foundation in reality as the current argument being posed. For the record, I'm ALL FOR IT! From a statistical point of view, there is a far greater possibility of CCP selling in-game items for cash, than there is for CCP trading in-game currency for substances that are illegal in most parts of the World. Let's try to keep things on a somewhat realistic level. Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:27:00 - [52] Edited by: Cupio Mortem on 08/10/2010 13:28:19 Originally by: Illwill Bill Originally by: Cupio Mortem Well, while we're at it, let's also discuss if CCP decides to allow Isk for co¬aine shipment type transactions. It has every bit as much of a foundation in reality as the current argument being posed. For the record, I'm ALL FOR IT! From a statistical point of view, there is a far greater possibility of CCP selling in-game items for cash, than there is for CCP trading in-game currency for substances that are illegal in most parts of the World. Let's try to keep things on a somewhat realistic level. CCP is also the antichrist, did you know that? Jesus used to be a programmer but then they showed him the door when he designed a shuttle with 3 low slots. These facts could be true, every bit as true as the argument currently happening. Edit: Thank you, though, for confirming the fact you people will ****ing argue ANY POINT at all.
Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:32:00 - [53] While you, apparently, will refuse a sensible discussion. Please counter my arguments instead of filling the forums with pointless personal attacks. Originally by: Stitcher For frak's sake, it took millions of years of evolution for that brain to get inside your skull, would it kill you to actually USE the damned thing?
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Illwill Bill While you, apparently, will refuse a sensible discussion. Please counter my arguments instead of filling the forums with pointless personal attacks. Sorry, Jesus.
Dankiss	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:59:00 - [55] I am poor and unemployed and wish I had RL money to throw around to max my skill training. I frown upon remaps for plex and will quit eve if it goes any further. It is very different from PLEX for money because in any game you will have isk farmers and sellers so CCP trying to take the profiteering away from the anonymous farmer is fine, imo. Hope CCP changes its mind.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.08 14:01:00 - [56] Originally by: Dankiss I am poor and unemployed and wish I had RL money to throw around to max my skill training. I frown upon remaps for plex and will quit eve if it goes any further. It is very different from PLEX for money because in any game you will have isk farmers and sellers so CCP trying to take the profiteering away from the anonymous farmer is fine, imo. Hope CCP changes its mind. Tip: you can farm ISK for a plex and then remap!
Mehrune Khan Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.08 14:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Nullity CCP has stated that 1) Remaps will be available for real life cash (PLEXes) in Incursion. Remaps are already purchasable on Singularity using PLEXes. 2) "Vanity items" will also be available using real life cash (PLEXes). So some dev at CCP saw how much Sony is making off of Playstation Home, huh? I laugh every time I go on there and see people running around with 5, 10, 20 dollar avatars. I briefly considered buying the black knight monty python avatar for mine, but decided there are way better things I could blow my cash on. I wonder if CCP will even sell us "living spaces" in stations. It's actually kind of sad how much money people will spend on digital sofas and bookshelves.
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.10.08 17:12:00 - [58] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba I can't believe there is so much whining about this. For years you can buy isk with money (via ETC, now via PLEX), that has a direct impact on the gameplay. Alliances that lost their capital fleets bought new ones and turned the tables with RL-Cash. No one complained. Now you can remap for 15 $ more than once a year. It has no direct impact on the game, the vets are training with 2772 SP/hour anyways if they like. And anyone with RL-Cash can buy his way to win by buying a high SP character, indefinite ship replacement or faction gear. Yet they whine about the remapping option. How incredibly dumb must one be to complain about this feature ? Most of the MMOs I played (and that are quite a few) now have one or the other kind of microtransaction (it's a clear trend in the MMO industry) and often it gives you direct advantage over your fellow players, like special heal portions that don't stack with regular potions or gear with better stats etc. CCP is doing something completely harmless in this respect, yet there are ****s to whine about it, WTF has happened to this community ? Some people do think poorly of Real life cash to plex-gaining isk but if you understood the process you'd know that it works to alleviate the power and success of 3rd party RMT's who artificially gain isk through macroing/account hacking, it also doesn't magically bypass game mechanics to make isk. The actual cost of a plex is $17.50 USD $35 for 2 as you must buy in packs of 2, and it does have a small impact on gameplay because you can bypass the neural remap mechanic with $. Now your argument is other companies have MT so it is okay, then you go on to say this is completely harmless, sure bypassing game mechanics is fine can I please pay $10 a month to have every ship I fly be industructable? --Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.--**
Manipulator General o.0	Posted - 2010.10.08 17:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Cupio Mortem Edited by: Cupio Mortem on 08/10/2010 13:23:05 Originally by: Illwill Bill Absolutely! The ownership of the in-game bits and zeroes is not disputed here. What we are discussing here are the potential implications of the in-game market if CCP decides to sell non-vanity items and thereby bypass the market forces. Well, while we're at it, let's also discuss if CCP decides to allow Isk for ******* shipment type transactions. It has every bit as much of a foundation in reality as the current argument being posed. For the record, I'm ALL FOR IT! Please do not evade the profanity filter. Zymurgist Wow, who know that word was a profanity.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.08 17:33:00 - [60] Wow, the vanity items thing leads me to think they're following Blizzards lead. Which is sad. Very, very, sad. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.



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