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Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 11/10/2010 19:18:53
Apparently the US soldiers attempting to rescue a kidnapped aid worker in Afghanistan thought it was a good idea to use fragmentation grenades during the operation, initially they stated that the hostage was killed by the detonation of a suicide vest but various reports and surveillance footage is providing "conflicting evidence"
While anyone should be able to respect the risks the American soldiers took in attempting the rescue by putting their own lives on the line its also pretty horrifying to consider that the aid workers death might possibly be down to incompetence by the US forces involved, I personally hope that the investigation proves that the rescuers did not cause her death but in the face of years of cover ups and incompetence induced civilian and media deaths by the US forces its hard to have much faith in either their ability or impartiality in any investigations.
BBC news report
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:24:00 -
[2]
We will all now listen to the OP, an expert counter-terrorist hostage rescue specialist show us the proper way to ensure 100% hostage survivability during a rescue attempt.
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lance Fighter on 11/10/2010 19:26:00
Thousands of airplanes travel dayly across the skies without incident. One crashes, HUGE PUBLIC STUFF NEWS PRESS ETC.
what i mean to say: One thing went not as planned. So what?
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:35:00 -
[4]
New news uncovered! The aid worker didn't pay the $75 hostage rescue fee so that's why she died.
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:42:00 -
[5]
How do you get away with killing your friends?
Join the US Army.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:59:00 -
[6]
That's how I rolled when playing X-Com, grenade every room, civilians be damned!
Oh this is IRL. Well then, friendly fire is always a major factor when dealing with the US armed forces for some reason.
That being said, grenade vs beheading. I know what I'd choose.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.11 20:03:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
How do you get away with killing your friends?
Join the US Army.
What friends? Stupid civilians disregard warnings about the country and go anyway and then we're supposed to save them? Killing the enemy is the top priority, if the civilian survives the assault it's a bonus.
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.11 21:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
We will all now listen to the OP, an expert counter-terrorist hostage rescue specialist show us the proper way to ensure 100% hostage survivability during a rescue attempt.
It doesn't take an expert to realise that throwing grenades at the person you are supposed to be rescuing might not be the best idea.
regardless what I posted isn't me making any kind of judgement about how soldiers should do what they do as obviously I am not a soldier but people from various special forces and other experts are questioning why they would use fragmentation grenades in a situation when there was clearly a high risk she could be injured by them.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.11 21:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Originally by: Intense Thinker
We will all now listen to the OP, an expert counter-terrorist hostage rescue specialist show us the proper way to ensure 100% hostage survivability during a rescue attempt.
It doesn't take an expert to realise that throwing grenades at the person you are supposed to be rescuing might not be the best idea.
regardless what I posted isn't me making any kind of judgement about how soldiers should do what they do as obviously I am not a soldier but people from various special forces and other experts are questioning why they would use fragmentation grenades in a situation when there was clearly a high risk she could be injured by them.
Look at my post above, at least that's how the Marines trained us 
Also she didn't pay the $75 hostage rescue fee
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.11 21:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
New news uncovered! The aid worker didn't pay the $75 hostage rescue fee so that's why she died.
Originally by: captain foivos
Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.11 21:40:00 -
[11]
The moment I heard about the raid going wrong and who carried it out I guessed it was more than likely Americans getting over excited with eplosives.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.11 21:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: baltec1
The moment I heard about the raid going wrong and who carried it out I guessed it was more than likely Americans getting over excited with eplosives.
Well, if the Euros hadn't been sitting around drinking tea maybe they could've done better.
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.11 22:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: baltec1 on 11/10/2010 22:10:29
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Well, if the Euros hadn't been sitting around drinking tea maybe they could've done better.
It was decided the Americans knew the land better so the SAS were told they couldn't go. I guess thier commanders wanted a good news story for back home but ended up shooting themselves in the foot.
Still a grenade to the face is better than what would have happened to her if they sold her to one of the more extream groups. **** story all round with very little chance of a good ending tbh.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.11 22:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
New news uncovered! The aid worker didn't pay the $75 hostage rescue fee so that's why she died.
That's what you get for being a garbage capitalist greed based nation. Here in Sweden the glorious socialist government provides the hostage rescue service free of charge too all citizens from the day they're born.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.11 22:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 11/10/2010 22:40:44
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
While anyone should be able to respect the risks the American soldiers took in attempting the rescue by putting their own lives on the line its also pretty horrifying to consider that the aid workers death might possibly be down to incompetence by the US forces involved, I personally hope that the investigation proves that the rescuers did not cause her death but in the face of years
Do you really want to play the game of incompetence? For instance, what level of incompetence would be involved, when a Challenger tank, fires, in the desert, and manages to hit another Challenger tank, killing and wounding members of the crew? Did the Challenger tank sneak up on the British tank? Was the doomed Challenger tank coming right for the competent tank crew and making threating gestures and faces?
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ceaon
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Posted - 2010.10.11 23:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: baltec1
The moment I heard about the raid going wrong and who carried it out I guessed it was more than likely Americans getting over excited with eplosives.
Well, if the Euros hadn't been sitting around drinking tea maybe they could've done better.
be careful how you talk to your "dad" little boy
Originally by: CCP Adida
The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
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Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2010.10.12 00:22:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Brujo Loco on 12/10/2010 00:23:56
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: baltec1
The moment I heard about the raid going wrong and who carried it out I guessed it was more than likely Americans getting over excited with eplosives.
Well, if the Euros hadn't been sitting around drinking tea maybe they could've done better.
be careful how you talk to your "dad" little boy
What you talkin bout cea? :P
People from Spain drink CHOCOLATE not tea  <hint, he's talking about the other guys>
Also, since I don't want to touch this thread , I give you all a magic +1 Chtulhu Cookie
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Viva VENEZUELA!!!
Archipelago Theory
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.12 00:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 11/10/2010 19:18:53
Apparently the US soldiers attempting to rescue a kidnapped aid worker in Afghanistan thought it was a good idea to use fragmentation grenades during the operation, initially they stated that the hostage was killed by the detonation of a suicide vest but various reports and surveillance footage is providing "conflicting evidence"
While anyone should be able to respect the risks the American soldiers took in attempting the rescue by putting their own lives on the line its also pretty horrifying to consider that the aid workers death might possibly be down to incompetence by the US forces involved, I personally hope that the investigation proves that the rescuers did not cause her death but in the face of years of cover ups and incompetence induced civilian and media deaths by the US forces its hard to have much faith in either their ability or impartiality in any investigations.
BBC news report
I can give a lot of example of the many elite Hostage Rescue teams working in the United States.
They do a fine job rescuing people from their lives, liberty, and property.
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Zyck
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.12 04:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Zyck on 12/10/2010 04:05:15
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 11/10/2010 19:18:53
Apparently the US soldiers attempting to rescue a kidnapped aid worker in Afghanistan thought it was a good idea to use fragmentation grenades during the operation, initially they stated that the hostage was killed by the detonation of a suicide vest but various reports and surveillance footage is providing "conflicting evidence"
While anyone should be able to respect the risks the American soldiers took in attempting the rescue by putting their own lives on the line its also pretty horrifying to consider that the aid workers death might possibly be down to incompetence by the US forces involved, I personally hope that the investigation proves that the rescuers did not cause her death but in the face of years of cover ups and incompetence induced civilian and media deaths by the US forces its hard to have much faith in either their ability or impartiality in any investigations.
BBC news report
I can give a lot of example of the many elite Hostage Rescue teams working in the United States.
They do a fine job rescuing people from their lives, liberty, and property.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.12 04:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Intense Thinker
New news uncovered! The aid worker didn't pay the $75 hostage rescue fee so that's why she died.
That's what you get for being a garbage capitalist greed based nation. Here in Sweden the glorious socialist government provides the hostage rescue service free of charge too all citizens from the day they're born.
So does Israel... we've all see how that works 
Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny
Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.10.12 12:17:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Astenion on 12/10/2010 12:22:03
Edited by: Astenion on 12/10/2010 12:20:57
SeALs aren't exactly known for being reckless in their operations...it's a tragedy that can be squarely laid on human error. I seriously doubt that one of the most lethal forces in the world just decided to lob a frag in the doorway, hoping the hostage would survive it. Spetznaz maybe, but that's not how SeALs operate.
In any case the SAS should've gone in, in my opinion. They've always been a bit more adept at hostage rescue than us. I'm sure there was serious communication breakdown and in these types of operations, that can't happen. However, in a warzone things can go wrong and they often do. You can never eliminate the risk of innocent lives lost, only try to minimize it.
It seems by now our forces are past the point of handling things delicately and this is just another nail in the coffin of world opinion and respect.
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RiskyFrisky
Under the Table Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 13:13:00 -
[22]
Humor in a thread about a dead Aid Worker. Heh, I love these forums.
I for one will not feel any sorrow for her if she was killed by our boys, anyone BESIDES Coalition forces and Military Contractors who are assigned specific duties by Coalition forces, should not be over there.
Anyone remember the Business man who squawked while his head was crudely cut off by a machete?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.12 14:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: RiskyFrisky
Humor in a thread about a dead Aid Worker. Heh, I love these forums.
I for one will not feel any sorrow for her if she was killed by our boys, anyone BESIDES Coalition forces and Military Contractors who are assigned specific duties by Coalition forces, should not be over there.
Anyone remember the Business man who squawked while his head was crudely cut off by a machete?
We do need them for the hearts and minds side of the war.
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny
Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.10.12 14:35:00 -
[24]
I agree that anyone besides Afghan civilians and coalition forces should not be there, and if they get themselves into trouble then that's their problem to get them out, or at least their country's problem. This is mainly why I thought the SAS should've gotten her out.
The Italians got out Giuliana Sgrena in Iraq, and we shot them to hell. Maybe it was an accident, maybe not. I personally believe that it was. I also have no remorse because the Italian government paid her ransom, thereby sending more money to terrorists to use against coalition troops.
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Effy Muller
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Posted - 2010.10.12 15:55:00 -
[25]
There comes a point when the job you are doing becomes so important that making mistakes is unacceptable. Sure, I would never be able to do the job of a rescue service or a surgeon or pilot, but at that level there can't be mistakes.
If I try to repair you car or your home electrics and a mess it up then maybe you can get compensation. However, if I try to do a triple heart bypass or SAS style rescue mission or land a plane and mess it up then the consequences are fatal.
There's the reason these people are paid more than a car mechanic or sparks. |
Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2010.10.12 16:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Effy Muller
There comes a point when the job you are doing becomes so important that making mistakes is unacceptable. Sure, I would never be able to do the job of a rescue service or a surgeon or pilot, but at that level there can't be mistakes.
If I try to repair you car or your home electrics and a mess it up then maybe you can get compensation. However, if I try to do a triple heart bypass or SAS style rescue mission or land a plane and mess it up then the consequences are fatal.
There's the reason these people are paid more than a car mechanic or sparks.
Actually airline pilots dont get paid that well, infact its kinda ****ty considering what they are responsible for. And the more scary part is that the aircraft mechanics make absolute **** pay. So remember that the next time you hop on a plane that has 5000 parts in the engine, serviced by an under payed, over worked, non-contract mechanic on flat rate. For those of you who dont know what flat rate is, every job has a book time, and thats how long you have to fix it. So say its an 8 hour job to change a compressor fan, if you can do it in 6, you just made 2 hours. Giving incentive to rush on something that goes 580mph is a terrible idea.
Also alot of you guys have your head in your ass. **** happens, People die; even when you take every possible precaution.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
RiskyFrisky
Under the Table Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:53:00 -
[27]
Edited by: RiskyFrisky on 12/10/2010 22:54:45
Edited by: RiskyFrisky on 12/10/2010 22:54:33
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: RiskyFrisky
Humor in a thread about a dead Aid Worker. Heh, I love these forums.
I for one will not feel any sorrow for her if she was killed by our boys, anyone BESIDES Coalition forces and Military Contractors who are assigned specific duties by Coalition forces, should not be over there.
Anyone remember the Business man who squawked while his head was crudely cut off by a machete?
We do need them for the hearts and minds side of the war.
I thought that is what Fox News is for?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: RiskyFrisky
We do need them for the hearts and minds side of the war.
I thought that is what Fox News is for?
Water went everywhere.
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