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The End to Contract Trading

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satane Amarr The Contracteere	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:02:00 - [1] http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4111/hurk.jpg well there goes the contract system ... Most will like this new feature, poeple like me wont, - Sat The Contracteere'
Lecherito	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:06:00 - [2] If that's genuine, talk about putting contract trading out of it's stark misery with one well placed bullet... -L
Matt Armada Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:15:00 - [3] Because NOBODY Uses the Contract system to Trace BPC's or Faction Parts Sarcasam I could see this damaging it but unless they put ALL items short of BPC's...contract trading will still survive, just with more limited use
Lanais Suleia	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:19:00 - [4] Why CCP, why? Stop fecking with stuff that works and pay some attention to the broken crap!
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:28:00 - [5] just checked sisi. can confirm faction ships are tradeable via market. however i could not find mods on market.
Gil Danastre Amarr 5TH Combat Training Squadron	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:35:00 - [6] Caving in to the doubtless large number of players who fall for Jita ship contract scams and then go crying to the petition window. Maybe this will net a faster turnaround on GM petitions after the patch?
wakalaka Information And Entropy	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:44:00 - [7] Meh. I could understand it some time ago, when the contract system was redone and there were some petitions to enlarge the market to absorb into it the contract system for plain buy/sells. The whole market and EVE itself would implode, we were told. But now, after all this time, meh. And why half-assed with faction ships, instead of including all officer, cosmos, factions modules too? If you're gonna mess with a whole trade profession, do it properly instead of just shrinking the portfolio.
Ione Hunt Storm Solutions	Posted - 2010.10.14 01:29:00 - [8] LOOOOL, Jita will be dead silent when all the scam contract-linkers shut up in local :D _______________
Annika Petrovich	Posted - 2010.10.14 01:47:00 - [9] Hey, it's my screenshot While you're at it, check this out: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2233/derpt.jpg
Xylopia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.10.14 02:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Annika Petrovich Hey, it's my screenshot While you're at it, check this out: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2233/derpt.jpg So CCP adds a small color tag at the upper left corner of an item. Hmmm, nice to know when I'm about to reprocess everything!
Ash Donai	Posted - 2010.10.14 02:06:00 - [11] I never understood why CCP didn't just include all known items into the normal market, seemed like a screwup to me. Contracts can be good for some stuff but why faction items have to go through contracts has always been and will remain a mystery to me. re: icons they should just adopt the killboard ones, F for faction etc., not that hard really
Rasz Lin Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2010.10.14 02:45:00 - [12] Edited by: Rasz Lin on 14/10/2010 02:47:28 I think this will help sell more faction ships so I like it. Edit: on the other hand it will lower entry barrier and introduce 0.01 isking idiots :/
Xylopia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.10.14 02:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Ash Donai re: icons they should just adopt the killboard ones, F for faction etc., not that hard really You know what? I'd rather very glad if they can put a simple column that shows meta levels, not some pretty color tag like that. Don't even look at inconsistency occurring between killboard and ingame icon. It's just typical CCP thing, y'know?
Lecherito	Posted - 2010.10.14 02:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Matt Armada Because NOBODY Uses the Contract system to Trace BPC's or Faction Parts Sarcasam I could see this damaging it but unless they put ALL items short of BPC's...contract trading will still survive, just with more limited use Hey douchebag, if you're going to respond with an obviously sarcastic tone, and follow it up with an absolutely unnecessary sarcasm e-mote, at least spell it correctly. -L
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.10.14 03:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Gil Danastre Caving in to the doubtless large number of players who fall for Jita ship contract scams and then go crying to the petition window. Maybe this will net a faster turnaround on GM petitions after the patch? Yeah, cause the change was done to get rid of contract scams. It's got nothing to do with making it easier to buy and sell faction ships at all. Also my ego is so large I think every change made to the game is done specifically to nerf my style of play.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.10.14 03:28:00 - [16] Poasting in a trololololol thread ♥ Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Zelot Blueice XTC Cartel	Posted - 2010.10.14 03:58:00 - [17] Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this.
Nathan Jameson	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Zelot Blueice Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this. Posting in a F90OEX thread.
Scott McClellan Forum Posters Anonymous	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:09:00 - [19] Edited by: Scott McClellan on 14/10/2010 04:10:09 Originally by: Zelot Blueice Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this. Confirmed CCP's simple UI and market enhancement is enough to cause excessive nerdrage for contract scammers. Why they didn't go with a simple F: Faction, D: Deadspace, O: Officer is beyond me though.
World Director	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:13:00 - [20] Quote: Why they didn't go with a simple F: Faction, D: Deadspace, O: Officer is beyond me though. Sup dawg we heard you like cans and faction so we put a can on yo faction so you can can while you facti....failedmemefaildmeme
Zelot Blueice XTC Cartel	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:17:00 - [21] Edited by: Zelot Blueice on 14/10/2010 04:17:59 I am not a contract scammer. Allow me a moment to elaborate on my thoughts on why this is bad. We all know how lazy us humans can be. You have an item that you just right click and sell for WAY below market price just because you don't honestly care. We all do it, and a lot do it en masse. This isn't so for contracts, however. Adding ships like this will crash the market for ISK to LP. LP will go down and crash the whole faction market. Beside that point, are you aware that they added the Alliance Tournement prizes to the market as well? Now in my POV, that's just re*arded.
Nathan Jameson	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:23:00 - [22] Edited by: Nathan Jameson on 14/10/2010 04:23:58 Originally by: Zelot Blueice Adding ships like this will crash the market for ISK to LP. LP will go down and crash the whole faction market. Some would argue it's more "deflate" than "crash," which might be a good thing. Anyway, I think it's a little early to be jumping the gun on leaving EVE. CCP has tested a lot of things on Sisi that never made it in. I'd say wait for the actual expansion before ragequitting. (Although if contract trading is the only aspect left keeping you in the game, EVE might not be your thing then...)
oil Double-L	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:28:00 - [23] Edited by: oil on 14/10/2010 04:34:26 i see only win from this if true. they should put all possible items on the market and away from contracts. difficulties could be in bpo and bpc for all the different me and pe levels otherwise whats the problem? for instance when i look for officer modules i need to check a dozen or more items in contracts. very tedious. on market i just could browse the market. faction and other items should become more competitively priced as prices can be easily checked and compared.
Zelot Blueice XTC Cartel	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:29:00 - [24] I was too blunt on that, if it does go into TQ and has negative effect, im out. Better put
TooFatToFish	Posted - 2010.10.14 04:50:00 - [25] Edited by: TooFatToFish on 14/10/2010 04:54:10 Originally by: Zelot Blueice I was too blunt on that, if it does go into TQ and has negative effect, im out. Better put Your stuff, contract it to me. Edit I do not see how this will make LP crash, if anything a slight raise in LP should happen as the margins on faction ships closes due to .01isk.
Veni Ra Amarr Brotherhood Of Cash	Posted - 2010.10.14 05:10:00 - [26] Im loving this change, it will be easy to see the price history of faction ships now.
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.14 05:22:00 - [27] This is great, I see no reason why faction ships shouldn't be on the market (you know, the base system designed for buying and selling items). From an average player's standpoint, it will be much easier to buy and sell faction ships. To the contract traders, adapt or die. what you have learned in the contracts market will apply to other types of trading and industry.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:02:00 - [28] TBH I'm happy about it. Some of the ridiculously overpriced crap out there will get driven down in price from competition now. Market Alerts Mailing List
Ruareve	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:03:00 - [29] As a newer player I think this is a great idea and I hope they put all items on the market. So far I've been pretty good at avoiding scams but the risk factor of getting involved with a scam contract is so high that I try to avoid contracts if at all possible. Contracts should exist as an option but they should be used for exceptions. Day in/day out trading should be done on the market where the likelihood of a scam is greatly reduced.
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:03:00 - [30] This is awesome if it goes live. Can't wait. Contracts suck.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:05:00 - [31] Originally by: Zelot Blueice I was too blunt on that, if it does go into TQ and has negative effect, im out. Better put l8r m8, have fun in my little lazy pony online. ♥ Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:39:00 - [32] Am I the only one who thinks this is a great but above all, logical change? Contracts are great for selling/buying items/ships in packages (with fittings, ammo, fuel, etc etc). ------
Nathan Jameson	Posted - 2010.10.14 07:37:00 - [33] Originally by: Guilliman R Am I the only one who thinks this is a great but above all, logical change? Contracts are great for selling/buying items/ships in packages (with fittings, ammo, fuel, etc etc). ...and other special items like bookmarks. I agree, but I'm a relatively new player who hasn't made millions plying the difficult-to-discern contract market. I can understand why some people would be pretty ****ed off if everything became this transparent. Still, I'd personaly prefer if meta items were as easy to browse, research, and sell as everything else.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.10.14 07:59:00 - [34] As far as I can tell, the only people this will effect negatively are contract traders. For the rest of the eve population it will be a good thing and CCP will likely weigh that when making their decision. However, the contract traders DO have a good reason to be ****ed off beyond self interest. A mini-game, a different form of trading, a profession, has emerged from CCP's institution of the contract system and it looks likely that this change would kill that sandbox creation off. This would be a shame as it would detract a little from the richness, depth and complexity of the eve universe. But I doubt there are enough beneficiaries of this particular aspect of eve to justify keeping things as they are in a way that would be against the desires and interests of the majority of players.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.14 08:26:00 - [35] I can see both sides to this one, and I guess I'd kinda side with the contract guys. I don't do contracts so this would be a major help for me... one more way for trade to scale up with larger capital. I suppose I -could- be doing contracts but I've got the markets pretty systemized and I really don't want to add more to my mental plate when logging in and off. BUT ... its not all about me ... the game is more fun withouth too much transparecy in trading. If it was really easy to get live quotes of goods across all regions (without the expense, comittment and hasle of tabing between clients) the game elements of th markets would have less secret niches of profit that are fun to discover and exploit. From Role playing perspective , I could justify the faction stuff being handled in a deifferent way... sort of like are brokers etc.... not exactly but the most extrely expensive goods in our society are bought and sold in a different fashion so ...even if its not the same different fashion ,, it feels right to have the transactions of those rare items handled differently. But.. one more way to make isk doing what i know how .....for me
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2010.10.14 08:33:00 - [36] Contracts are good for weird things ... fitted ships, package deals, BPOs, BPCs, etc. The market should be used for everything else. Seriously folks ... are Navy Ravens all that rare that they need to be on contacts? Please! If someone actually quits (and I don't believe they will) over this, they need to seriously consider professional help.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.14 08:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Michela Contracts are good for weird things ... fitted ships, package deals, BPOs, BPCs, etc. The market should be used for everything else. Seriously folks ... are Navy Ravens all that rare that they need to be on contacts? Please! If someone actually quits (and I don't believe they will) over this, they need to seriously consider professional help. I think thats a pretty good argument. Faction ships are pretty common and readily available through lp stores. Other arcane stuff like performance imlants are all bought and sold on the market... even those that are worth hundreds of million isk. Faction mods that are drop-only make more sense to remain contract-only sales.
Shadroch	Posted - 2010.10.14 10:32:00 - [38] Originally by: Zelot Blueice Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this. May I have your stuff? :D
Dzil Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.14 12:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz This is awesome if it goes live. Can't wait. Contracts suck. This. While we could banter on for years about great improvements just out of reach, EVE's market interface is the best across any MMO, if not any game, out there. Let the contracts by used for non-fungible assets like researched BPOs and rigged/fitted ships. But where appropriate (like a packaged faction ship/mod), FFS YES put it on the market. Disclaimer: The entire point of this post was really to gain MD rep by using the word fungible. Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :)
My Postman	Posted - 2010.10.14 13:48:00 - [40] OMG! I can see some ppl go broke, as every CNR sold after the patch actually WILL BE a CNR. Actually want to know how many where scammed buying a faction ship. And this will drive down some of those horribly overpriced items as well (if modules will be included)! +1 for nerfing scammers CCP!
Berikath	Posted - 2010.10.14 14:13:00 - [41] Originally by: My Postman OMG! I can see some ppl go broke, as every CNR sold after the patch actually WILL BE a CNR. Actually want to know how many where scammed buying a faction ship. And this will drive down some of those horribly overpriced items as well (if modules will be included)! +1 for nerfing scammers CCP! To be fair- Search by item type ("Raven Navy Issue") and mess with contracts in a station where you don't actually HAVE a CNR. There ya go, no chance of getting scammed (unless you buy from one for 3 bil instead of 300m or something...) *** Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle!
Vadania Amastacia Caldari Exploit Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.14 15:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz This is awesome if it goes live. Can't wait. Contracts suck. Agreed. Adding faction ships to market is the most awesome change ever. Now, do it for deadspace / officer too. xD
Rikki Sals Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.14 15:05:00 - [43] Overall I really like this change. The market window, while maybe not perfect, is vastly superior to contracts for the trade of single items. It offers a lot more information (price history) and ease of browsing. However, there is one notable exception: the market window is limited by region! I will miss being able to pull up the contract window in, say, Syndicate, and see the spread of all the orders in all of EVE for a particular faction ship. Granted, this isn't THAT big an issue, as market window items can be aggregated by the likes of EVE-Metrics, and the vast majority of exchanges of this type of item occur in Jita anyways. But EVE-Metrics can't ever be perfectly up to date the way an All Regions search on contracts is. On the flip side, this could have the positive benefit of opening up more region-based trading of faction ships. All in all, I hope they migrate more and more individual items to be tradeable via the market window.
Cyniac Gallente Twilight Labs	Posted - 2010.10.14 16:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Rikki Sals Overall I really like this change. Tone notable exception: the market window is limited by region! You hit the nail on the head. Contracts will still be viable as a means to advertise products across all of eve - I don't want to have to have to investigate a dozen regions to see if I can find that funky ol' module I was looking for. While some faction stuff is pretty common and used all over, some is fairly rare and specialised. I suspect that this might actually shift the balance of contracts less "I sell contracts" and many more "I want to buy contracts" for a reasonable price. The adding of a little icon (whatever the icon might be) to discriminate officer and faction mods is a pretty touch and will save much grief -> All good there by me.
Countesss	Posted - 2010.10.14 16:53:00 - [45] Ban this change, F9 won't be able to make gazillionz doing cnr contract trading.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.10.14 20:05:00 - [46] Originally by: Rikki Sals However, there is one notable exception: the market window is limited by region! But isn't that the whole fun of trading? Making profit because you did compare the next region, while other didn't? I add my vote to the ones who like that change. As already mentioned: any single item should be in the market. Let contracts handle "bundles". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Kragaar	Posted - 2010.10.14 20:48:00 - [47] excellent change, as others have said, I hope all the various and sundry modules hit the market as well.
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2010.10.14 22:10:00 - [48] One thing - any additional market categories will mean heavier congestion in Jita, as contrcated faction items can be sold and browsed in "All regions" in the contract system as it is now, but will to a large degree be traded through Jita in the future. Since Jita capacity has improved lately this might be an insignificant problem. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market
Muscaat ASCENTIS CORPORATION Free Worlds Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.14 22:24:00 - [49] If this change sticks, it'll make me excited because sites like EVE Central and EVE Metrics (and by extension, my own site) will be able to track faction prices. More numbers to crunch ---------- EVE Markets - global price trends at your fingertips
F90OEX F9X	Posted - 2010.10.14 22:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Countesss Ban this change, F9 won't be able to make gazillionz doing cnr contract trading. No surprise there since there was whispers over the summer this was going to happen personally I was against it but the powers to be wanted it and it will be added in the next expansion. But fyi the Raven/Cnr Jita schemes had very little influence on the reason why it will be changed. Say fair well to the golden days of controlling CNR trading on contracts, It was a good run.
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2010.10.15 00:47:00 - [51] its also worth noting you cant run an auction from the market. i like it, contracts will still have a place. . -hi sec lolwarrior-
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.10.15 00:54:00 - [52] Originally by: F90OEX Originally by: Countesss Ban this change, F9 won't be able to make gazillionz doing cnr contract trading. No surprise there since there was whispers over the summer this was going to happen personally I was against it but the powers to be wanted it and it will be added in the next expansion. But fyi the Raven/Cnr Jita schemes had very little influence on the reason why it will be changed. Say fair well to the golden days of controlling CNR trading on contracts, It was a good run. terminal: make f90.actuallytrades.cnr.c make: * No rule to make target `f90.actuallytrades.cnr.c'. Stop. make f90.howsthebondgoing.f9bond.c make: * No rule to make target `f90.howsthebondgoing.f9bond.c'. Stop. make f90.anyonecares.f9<3.c bash: 3.c: No such file or directory
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2010.10.15 01:54:00 - [53] I'm firmly against this change.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.10.15 01:55:00 - [54] Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 15/10/2010 01:56:46 Finally!!! I mean, the outdated contract system was useful 4 years ago when we didn't have so many contracts in game, but now using it is a nightmare. So, they either had to revamp the whole thing or just put faction stuff on market. CCP chose the easier and more fail-proof method :thumbs up: edit: and no... it doesn't mean they will completely remove contracts
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.10.15 02:36:00 - [55] About time too, Contracts should be for specialist items and services just like ESCROW was.
Machete Visor	Posted - 2010.10.15 02:53:00 - [56] from a market efficiency standpoint (best prices), it makes sense. The contract system is obtuse and difficult to use and learn, which prevents some players from using it... lowering liquidity and increasing spreads... on the other hand, i really dislike it getting rid of it. Right now, it is the only universe wide market. I can put up a contract WTB or WTS in Jita from anywhere. So in that sense, it enhances liquidity greatly... getting rid of it essentially creates a bunch of mini markets for the products that will each have much less liquidity than Jita... and Jita will suffer a little as well b/c some buyers/sellers will transact in their own market (to avoid jumping around constantly).
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.10.15 03:00:00 - [57] Originally by: heheheh Contracts should be for specialist items and services just like ESCROW was. Making faction ships and modules less common would return them to "specialist" status. So would that be a viable alternative fix? Anyone know if Cosmos items were added to the Market on the test server? I would be happier about the "dumbing down" of trading in many contract-only SKUs if there were some other market/trading richness being added elsewhere in the game (e.g., in-game stock market, or I'm sure there are plenty of even better ideas). Something like Planetary Interaction added a new model of production, but on the market front it just added some SKUs, rather than any new depth or richness. From a development perspective, it should be easier to simply reduce the use of a feature, rather than improving it (remember "storefronts"?), right? So maybe this apparent reduction in the importance of Contracts bodes well for substantive improvements in the future. á á
Gank'aho	Posted - 2010.10.15 03:38:00 - [58] As a contract trader I oppose this horribly. Yes I mad, and yes im crying....My main concern is my skills, I spent weeks getting my contracting skillsup, and if they remove most faction items I want that time back. I know I could still use it, but I wouldn't need 70+contracts if there are so few items to trade in the first place. Give me those back and I wouldn't really mind. I also assume only ships are affected which is preferred as most mods are not in big enough quantities to even be placed on the market.
Nathan Jameson	Posted - 2010.10.15 06:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Gank'aho Yes I mad, and yes im crying.... not sure if srs
TR4D3R4LT	Posted - 2010.10.15 12:22:00 - [60] "You know what made me happy with contracts and faction mods? The fact I could see nearly all faction mods in whole Eve being sold. Now I'm restricted to three main market hubs and their regions I have alts sitting in." This is what your average bloke thinks first when they see the change. Little they realize it wont be like that. I doubt that apart from Jita, Amarr, Rens and some others we wont be seeing contracts being replaced as a way to sell your faction stuff, especially when people are too lazy to move their crap to main hubs to sell it there. For main hubs it allows history to track faction prices, while still allowing contract system to find "good deals." Imho market history is important feature as it allows those with eyes to see and brains to think avoid making stupid deals via in-game means. The more stuff is covered with it the better, nobody but scammers miss the old escrow system and same way will be for this change. Now if only CCP would make it so that we could have windows explorer like "show details" listing for eve modules where it showed meta level. Oh well I've hoped four years for that so wont be happening for another four at least...
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2010.10.16 04:56:00 - [61] Originally by: Xylopia Originally by: Ash Donai re: icons they should just adopt the killboard ones, F for faction etc., not that hard really You know what? I'd rather very glad if they can put a simple column that shows meta levels, not some pretty color tag like that. Don't even look at inconsistency occurring between killboard and ingame icon. It's just typical CCP thing, y'know? Or how about sorting the item window by meta?
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2010.10.16 06:56:00 - [62] About time \o/ Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Vitamin B12	Posted - 2010.10.16 09:05:00 - [63] and another profession goes to the macro/bot section. thanks ccp --- Corporations for Highsec pos anchoring. Only a fee of 75 Million ISK. click
clixoras	Posted - 2010.10.17 09:58:00 - [64] I applaud loudly. Contracts were broken, you cant change orders so you get .1 isked (1m isked) and there goes your contract for 2 weeks. Unless you controlled markets, and i expect the tears come from these few people. But i don't see the problem, margins will be similar.. except for scammers.
Lederstrumpf	Posted - 2010.10.17 11:17:00 - [65] Originally by: clixoras I applaud loudly. Contracts were broken, you cant change orders so you get .1 isked (1m isked) and there goes your contract for 2 weeks. If faction ships end up in the normal market the'll get "0.1 isked" way faster than on contract. It will become way harder for people not into trading to sell their stuff, as "fulltime" in station traders will underbid less active people way more often than on contract, because they would have to pay that extra contract fee and extra work to recreate a contract. For unrigged ships sold on market I expect a faster adjustment in price than on contract today... which again would have an influence on rigged ships sales. Rigged and fitted ships still would have to get sold via contract? With that extra contract fee? I'd expect the value of fitted rigs to go down even further when it comes to selling rigged ships.
clixoras	Posted - 2010.10.17 12:07:00 - [66] Originally by: Lederstrumpf Originally by: clixoras I applaud loudly. Contracts were broken, you cant change orders so you get .1 isked (1m isked) and there goes your contract for 2 weeks. If faction ships end up in the normal market the'll get "0.1 isked" way faster than on contract. It will become way harder for people not into trading to sell their stuff, as "fulltime" in station traders will underbid less active people way more often than on contract, because they would have to pay that extra contract fee and extra work to recreate a contract. For unrigged ships sold on market I expect a faster adjustment in price than on contract today... which again would have an influence on rigged ships sales. Rigged and fitted ships still would have to get sold via contract? With that extra contract fee? I'd expect the value of fitted rigs to go down even further when it comes to selling rigged ships. working as intended. casual seller are supposed to sell to buy orders ;)
Rasz Lin Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2010.10.17 12:12:00 - [67] Originally by: clixoras Contracts were broken, you cant change orders so you get .1 isked (1m isked) and there goes your contract for 2 weeks. 10% penalty for deleting contract to relist is the ONLY thing keeping faction ship prices stable. Otherwise lemmings would pull this wole corner of the market down to 1% profitability (or below, after all BPC was free, right?)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.17 12:42:00 - [68] Originally by: Rasz Lin Originally by: clixoras Contracts were broken, you cant change orders so you get .1 isked (1m isked) and there goes your contract for 2 weeks. 10% penalty for deleting contract to relist is the ONLY thing keeping faction ship prices stable. Otherwise lemmings would pull this wole corner of the market down to 1% profitability (or below, after all BPC was free, right?) Not free but totally cheap for sure. I recall when I traded I stopped caring for how much something was really worth for (a web site said what to reprocess anyway, in case it was the best income). What counted was just the spread, so it was not uncommon to see people war-trade down to production cost, they were not those who produced the good so they were not interested seeing the profit squashed to dwarf amounts. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Aristeia Cersei	Posted - 2010.10.17 16:00:00 - [69] Pretty much will make faction ships harder to sell for those that don't do .01 wars in Jita all day..
Ximano	Posted - 2010.10.17 22:34:00 - [70] Originally by: satane http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4111/hurk.jpg well there goes the contract system ... Most will like this new feature, poeple like me wont, Finally CCP does something wise. Can't wait.
The Geoman Gallente Anarchos Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.18 04:18:00 - [71] Originally by: Aristeia Cersei Pretty much will make faction ships harder to sell for those that don't do .01 wars in Jita all day.. Faction ships already give lousy LP/isk returns, and this is only going to get worse for those playing that market.
Roosterton Internet Spaceship Raiders	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:54:00 - [72] Originally by: Vitamin B12 and another profession goes to the macro/bot section. thanks ccp I'm pretty sure that a very good amount of Jita "faction ship" scammers were also bots... -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three. Originally by: Tarminic OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Roosterton I'm pretty sure that a very good amount of Jita "faction ship" scammers were also bots... It doesn't take a bot to list a Raven as a CNR.
Scott McClellan Forum Posters Anonymous	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:03:00 - [74] Edited by: Scott McClellan on 18/10/2010 16:04:34 Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Roosterton I'm pretty sure that a very good amount of Jita "faction ship" scammers were also bots... It doesn't take a bot to list a Raven as a CNR. It doesn't take a bot to do anything, they're just used when the task doesn't require a human. See: Mining Ratting Plexing Missions PI Market .01 Eve Online
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.18 18:45:00 - [75] Originally by: Guilliman R Am I the only one who thinks this is a great but above all, logical change? Contracts are great for selling/buying items/ships in packages (with fittings, ammo, fuel, etc etc). Add to that rigged ships BPC and researched BPO and similar items. Essentially the market is there to sell the "standard" version of a item (even if it is a officer module or a faction ship), the contracts are there to sell the "unique" version of item or to sell to a restricted/specific audience (corpmates, direct contracts between 2 players and so on). Seem pretty logic.
Ticarus Hellbrandt	Posted - 2010.10.18 18:52:00 - [76] Originally by: Rasz Lin Edited by: Rasz Lin on 14/10/2010 02:47:28 Edit: on the other hand it will lower entry barrier and introduce 0.01 isking idiots :/ you mean market traders? we are better than those part timers who drop bulk onto the market at half the sale price.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.10.18 19:23:00 - [77] I don't mind this change so long as Contracts have a peropus. They can't be just the BPO/BPC Selling Mechanism.. Technically they could get away with added every single item that could be repacked on the market, including Officer mods etc. Because once repacked they are exactly the same as every other of the same type. What they could do is expand on EVE's contracts by literally adding wear to T2/T3 items/ships. Once they are damaged they are never really fully "Undamaged" and can't be repacked. Sure you could take off all the mods and remove the rigs if you wanted to, but if it's damaged it has a 0.000000001% non-fixable hitpoint preventing them from being repacked. Remove the "Damaged" requirement from Contracts and call it golden. The idea is to filter how many T2/T3 ships and items get purchased to be resold or purchased to be used and later sold. The statistical distinction should make Dr.E wet his pants! and it would be extremely nice to get an idea of trends etc. It adds a layer of complexity to general trade as well. Sure the "Contract" Item is damaged a little but statistically it's for a very small amount of damage that wouldn't make a difference. It's not like people can't "repair" the item to almost brand-new but just missing like 0.000000001 HP. This would change market behavior people that want to manipulate items are limited to the number of contracts they can have, and any brand new items on market. Much more difficult to control. Which one will determine "price", contract items or new items. CCP Will not jump on this though, it would make Contracts MASSIVE and I believe the reason they are making this change is because they want to narrow the amount of items on contract to simply to lower the number of contracts the system has to hold. Amarr for Life
Cousin Tom	Posted - 2010.10.18 19:58:00 - [78] I fail to see the negative in this. Contracts will still be used for courier good movement at the minimum. Moving all the scam-ridden (scammers who are raging, you need to move up in the world, there are far bigger fish to fry than contract schemes) ships and modules to the marketplace is nothing short of a great buff to diversifying my portfolio. Thank you ccp.
garus banta	Posted - 2010.10.18 21:21:00 - [79] Originally by: Zelot Blueice Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this. All your stuffs now belong to me? May I take?
Netheranthem	Posted - 2010.10.18 21:45:00 - [80] Originally by: garus banta Originally by: Zelot Blueice Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this. All your stuffs now belong to me? May I take? Yeah, I loved this guy. Somewhere between troll and scammer imo :)
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.10.19 01:04:00 - [81] doesnt no contracts = no more courier contracts = no more red frog freight ect
Tiaka McKenzie	Posted - 2010.10.19 03:35:00 - [82] I don't get why some ppl always talking about scammers. It's not like contratcs are only used by scammers. it's not even the case that the majority of contracts are scams. so who cares about these few scammers? If someone really falls for one of these scams, he well deserves it. come on, it's not asked for too much to read a contract before accepting it. and if you really read it, you can't be fooled. you don't even have to count zeros anymore. they already changed it so it clearly says 20 million or 20 billion. seriously how hard can that be to realize the difference between 20 million and 20 billion? theres absolutely none improvement if faction ships are moved into the market. for a buyer it makes no difference at all if he buys his shiny new cnr through the market or through contracts. but now a buyer isn't able anymore to compare prices in all regions without beeing there. today you can sit in the deepest null space and search for the cheapest cnr in all regions. if faction ships are moved into the market, you have to visit each region to compare prices. that's not an improvement, that's a time consuming disadvantage. for contract traders it's just removing part of the game they liked to play. and as someone already said, the penality of contract relisting prevents faction ship prices from falling like a rock. i don't think mission runners will like it much to get even less for their lp then today. also none improvement on this side.
jwingenderowns	Posted - 2010.10.19 03:59:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Kragaar Good stuff, is there any plan in the future to add faction modules to the market along with the faction ships? There is, it will naturally take longer to do since there is so many of them and with some modules lots of variations. For now, we just wanted the best stuff up there which was the most requested, being the other ships you can all fly. Let the "OMG WTF, they are killing contracts!!1one!" whining continue.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.19 04:07:00 - [84] Straight buy and sell of individual items should have never been the focus of any contracts, but thanks to "technical limitations", they were. Contracts STILL remain the only reasonable way to exchange fitted ships, larger quantities of items of different types, BPCs, and also for auctioning off stuff. Granted, the auction part could stand to be improved, but still. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.19 06:43:00 - [85] Originally by: SencneS Because once repacked they are exactly the same as every other of the same type. What they could do is expand on EVE's contracts by literally adding wear to T2/T3 items/ships. Once they are damaged they are never really fully "Undamaged" and can't be repacked. "Wonderful idea". I really see how having to buy a unpackaged BS (400-500.000 m3 instead of 50.000 m3) will convince people to use more contracts. It would have the opposite effect. No one will buy a "used" ship unless there is a large discount on the hull simply for the inconvenience of moving it.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.10.19 11:46:00 - [86] I've been wanting this for years! now to wait for them to add faction items to the market too
Companion Qube	Posted - 2010.10.19 13:16:00 - [87] Edited by: Companion Qube on 19/10/2010 13:18:27 Originally by: Akita T Now if only you could at least CHECK the market prices of a different region without going there, everything would be almost perfect. I suggested that a while back - all they'd have to do is put in another pulldown in the market interface that let you pick the region you want to look at. e: I'm p.sure the forge's market server would melt if they actually did this
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.19 13:28:00 - [88] Originally by: Companion Qube I suggested that a while back - all they'd have to do is put in another pulldown in the market interface that let you pick the region you want to look at. e: I'm p.sure the forge's market server would melt if they actually did this That would be awsome.
LittleTerror	Posted - 2010.10.19 14:18:00 - [89] I welcome this change, contracts suck, they **** me off.
Angelo Doelman	Posted - 2010.10.19 15:15:00 - [90] Originally by: My Postman OMG! I can see some ppl go broke, as every CNR sold after the patch actually WILL BE a CNR. Actually want to know how many where scammed buying a faction ship. And this will drive down some of those horribly overpriced items as well (if modules will be included)! +1 for nerfing scammers CCP! I am not certant how scamming is really possible. I mean, you people actually pay attention to local there? If I'm out buying a faction ship or whatnot, there is a field in the contract search for "Exact Match"... I type in a chunk of the ship name or whatever and I get a select box which goes "What are you looking for" then I click on that and boom, I get a list of all the contracts for only that exact ship. Oh, it also goes without saying that you set the Type to Item Exchange and the minimum value to 1 isk. This removes all the WTB orders. Never has failed me and the top seller is the cheapest, provided that I've requested it to be ordered that way. But then again, I don't really quite get how scammers win... but I guess I've been given slightly more intelligence than a football.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.10.19 15:21:00 - [91] Originally by: Angelo Doelman But then again, I don't really quite get how scammers win... but I guess I've been given slightly more intelligence than a football. The advertise a price to good to resist. or they put the item name in the description as a lot of people search by description instead of item type.
Dr Nefarius	Posted - 2010.10.19 16:35:00 - [92] I have a hard time following the logic of those nerdraging about this. Replacing a difficult UI that's hard to understand for noobs and easy to manipulate with the normal market feature....... The change this could bring to jita local alone is enough to motivate a move to the market.
Gabriel Rosencrantz Red Frog Freight	Posted - 2010.10.19 17:00:00 - [93] Originally by: Taxesarebad doesnt no contracts = no more courier contracts = no more red frog freight ect Huh? Why would they do away with courier contracts? Red Frog Freight: Hisec Courier Service
skye orionis	Posted - 2010.10.19 18:25:00 - [94] Originally by: Gil Danastre Caving in to the doubtless large number of players who fall for Jita ship contract scams and then go crying to the petition window. Maybe this will net a faster turnaround on GM petitions after the patch? If you're foolish enough to think that ship contract scams will be eliminated by making the item available available on the market then I have a Carbon^H^H^H^H^Hharon on contracts for quick sale.
Lyrrashae Minmatar Crushed Ambitions	Posted - 2010.10.27 03:59:00 - [95] Originally by: Zelot Blueice Confirmed, CCP has just ruined the faction ship market. Good job. Well that was my last straw. I am on my way out CCP. Thank you for a good experience while it lasted until you started **ing up. You need to check with the player base before you do ** like this. <obligatory response> Ur stuffs, I can haz? </obligatory response>
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.27 22:50:00 - [96] Quote: Contracts can be good for some stuff but why faction items have to go through contracts has always been and will remain a mystery to me. I agree completely, this is a good and welcome change. Taking mundane things out of contracts is a good thing.
satane Amarr The Contracteere	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:07:00 - [97] I'm hoping they keep faction items on contacts at least for now, - Sat The Contracteere'
Companion Qube	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:12:00 - [98] Originally by: satane I'm hoping they keep faction items on contacts at least for now, You mean until you can liquidate ;)
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:30:00 - [99] I sell faction items via contract, and I hope everything ends up on the market. All the whining is massively short sighted - faction items are appealing and underused, and the contract system is a major reason for that. Only the most educated players right now are going to search for say a Republic Fleet 1MN Afterburner, but if all the faction afterburners were on the market, a player could learn 1) what the item was, 2) how it compared to all the other afterburners, and 3) easily purchase it in a 'safe' manner. I could expect much more business from people searching the market than I currently get from people randomly entering the exact item name I'm selling into the contract search box. And since supply is far more static than demand, I would expect a price increase. I just wish it was for mods too, but that's the likely next step.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:35:00 - [100] Originally by: Dr Nefarius I have a hard time following the logic of those nerdraging about this. Replacing a difficult UI that's hard to understand for noobs and easy to manipulate with the normal market feature....... Exactly. "This constrained, unartful delivery system really helps me sell things! Really! My profits rely on only the most dedicated and informed players even knowing my product exists." Or my favorite, "once more people have convenient access to these products of limited supply, prices will surely drop!"

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