HUN Reloaded is joining Amarr Empire
From: Amarr Empire
Sent:

HUN Reloaded is joining the Amarr Empire faction at war. Within 24 hours all enemies of the Amarr Empire faction will be enemies of HUN Reloaded and fighting may begin.

we are join to help our true amarian borselves

As said, we are join to help our true amarian borselves and having fun during summer.
We join to Amarr side.

Fear the arrows of the Huns!

Shonion

parasitic vermin :)

Oh interesting

It seems FW is getting very popular.

Hhopefully this is a trend and we'll get alot more groups from all over eve joining up (all four factions as things need to be fairly balanced) and we'll turn every system into a chaotic mess of explosions and fun.

Well HUNs have been our brothers in arms for quite a while. I think the idea all along was for them to join us up north, but a little event called AT-X got in between that.

I do think that S2N is proving that FW is exploitable to make isk for a large alliance. So I'm sure we'll see more big alliances making forays into it before long.

Ah k, I'm not much up on the whole 0.0 scene.

lol Nulli had to call in help to deal with FW scrubs.

o/ Hun bros

Welcome to the World of Frig Warfare

Welcome to Farmville

This man sums up fw pretty well.

You sound mad. Sorry that a couple of friendly 0.0 alliances want to exploit this isk faucet before CCP tightens it up like they did Incursions.

HUN bros best bros, sell me a cambion? <3

For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink. The only ISK Faucet is ISK you recieve from missions which is very little.

FW is an ISK sink as LP is not ISK. To turn it into items most the time you must spend ISK which is a sink. The items you sell are not an ISK faucet as that money already exists in game and is just coming from other players buying your goods which then creates another ISK sink due to taxes and broker fees.

So I see no activity in FW creating ISK besides the few million you get from FW missions.

So obviously 0.0 alliances don't know everything.

/facepalm

You based an entire argument on semantics purely to attempt to discredit someone from a group you don't like? Sweet.

I think it's pretty obvious that the term, "isk faucet" does not literally mean, in generic use, a source from which raw isk is generated, but rather a source from which wealth in general is generated.

I have no issue with Nulli. Just simply stating facts based off his comparison.

No he didnt use it in a generic term. He compared it to incursions which were an ISK Faucet as it created ISK that was not in the game before. Had he just called it an ISK faucet without that comparison I could buy your story that it was use generically.

I seriously doubt they'll bring frigs ...

For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink. The only ISK Faucet is ISK you recieve from missions which is very little.

FW is an ISK sink as LP is not ISK. To turn it into items most the time you must spend ISK which is a sink. The items you sell are not an ISK faucet as that money already exists in game and is just coming from other players buying your goods which then creates another ISK sink due to taxes and broker fees.

So I see no activity in FW creating ISK besides the few million you get from FW missions.

So obviously 0.0 alliances don't know everything.

If u want dread ganks get a cyno chain to kourm ready and send me mail.

Welcome to factional warfare.

It's not an ISK faucet in terms of the overall economy, no, but it certainly forces a load of ISK into your personal wallet. Did I misuse the term? Probably. It's alright though, the level of butthurt LOSEK PRYDE in your last sentence made the slight error on my part more than worth it.

Anyway, I'm going to keep enjoying my time pvping in frigates while you keep getting pissy about the fact that a 0.0 alliance is playing the same game as you. Ciao!

EDIT: Holy ****, a Dreddit guy defending me. Cheers :D I'll see you on /r/eve

These people jumped on me for using these terms 'incorrectly' too. Space lawyers and space economists are abundant in FW. They get angry if you imply people in FW get rich.

99% sure these people fly gunless frigate alts to farm plexes and this definitional nonsense is what they use to rationalize it. Don't know why the just can't admit they are farming a broken system.

We all are.

I like your logic, Vordak.

I myself can't do more than a couple plexes without getting terminally bored - I run them when I can bring myself to because I know the money:time ratio is good, but I just don't want the money bad enough to keep playing the "orbit beacon -->spam dscan --> warp to new beacon when done" game.

If a wt comes, and you kill him, you get a shiny shiny killmail

These people jumped on me for using these terms 'incorrectly' too. Space lawyers and space economists are abundant in FW. They get angry if you imply people in FW get rich.

99% sure these people fly gunless frigate alts to farm plexes and this definitional nonsense is what they use to rationalize it. Don't know why the just can't admit they are farming a broken system.

We all are.

And the point of that would be?

Yes welcome who's kraken.

KRAKENDOT is most likely the most powerful entity within Caldari milltia v0v

I like your logic, Vordak.

I myself can't do more than a couple plexes without getting terminally bored - I run them when I can bring myself to because I know the money:time ratio is good, but I just don't want the money bad enough to keep playing the "orbit beacon -->spam dscan --> warp to new beacon when done" game.

I like your logic, Vordak.

I myself can't do more than a couple plexes without getting terminally bored - I run them when I can bring myself to because I know the money:time ratio is good, but I just don't want the money bad enough to keep playing the "orbit beacon -->spam dscan --> warp to new beacon when done" game.

It's not an ISK faucet in terms of the overall economy, no, but it certainly forces a load of ISK into your personal wallet. Did I misuse the term? Probably. It's alright though, the level of butthurt LOSEK PRYDE in your last sentence made the slight error on my part more than worth it.

Anyway, I'm going to keep enjoying my time pvping in frigates while you keep getting pissy about the fact that a 0.0 alliance is playing the same game as you. Ciao!

EDIT: Holy ****, a Dreddit guy defending me. Cheers :D I'll see you on /r/eve

Please stop calling FW a broken ISK Faucet. Null Sec Moons are the true ISK Faucet in this game. Moon Goo makes you rediculously filthy rich, and FW is nothing compared to that. There needs to be something to bridge the gap in this game isk wise between lv 4 high sec missions (OMG booooooooooooooooring) and Null Sec Alliance Income. Frankly its time that the small guy in this game has the opportunity to make good income and still PVP. For far too long the major alliance have dominated the isk wealth in this game and it's time there were other sources of income that major null sec alliances cannot hoarde and lock others out of using.

Please stop calling FW a broken ISK Faucet. Null Sec Moons are the true ISK Faucet in this game. Moon Goo makes you rediculously filthy rich, and FW is nothing compared to that. There needs to be something to bridge the gap in this game isk wise between lv 4 high sec missions (OMG booooooooooooooooring) and Null Sec Alliance Income. Frankly its time that the small guy in this game has the opportunity to make good income and still PVP. For far too long the major alliance have dominated the isk wealth in this game and it's time there were other sources of income that major null sec alliances cannot hoarde and lock others out of using.

As someone from an nullsec alliance that has a lot of moon goo, I come into FW to get my money. It's horribly broken. I had 3 frigates in the minmatar militia when they were hitting T5, and I've made 3 new alts in the amarr militia since they're headed towards T5.

My week old alt in a 7-10 million isk frigate makes more isk/hr semi-afk than a fully skilled thanatos pilot can make in a 1.5 BILLION isk carrier ratting in nullsec, while paying full attention. Kindly inform me of your definition of broken. Nulli Secunda didn't just randomly decide to join FW, and they didn't decide to join for the, "small gang warfare that is so much more interesting than nullsec blobs". They came for the money, and are going to make far more than they ever made while holding hundreds of moons in southern nullsec.

Major nullsec alliances have dominated the wealth because they fought wars to win it, but I agree that FW players should have access to good income levels that allows them to afford their ships.However, there is a difference between, "good income" and, "hey, should I buy two titans or only one?" income. Incursions? FW plexing blows them out of the water BEFORE the nerf, that that was considered an easy, risk free way to be showered in isk. Not only does plexing annhilate any other form of gaining personal wealth, but that you can achieve it with 1) Almost zero attention and 2) Literally the cheapest ships in the game. If you run missions in stealth bombers, you can push the isk/hr far further (but that actually requires a bit of effort).

It's ridiculous. Through and through. But while it's ridiculous, I'll continue to make stupid amounts of money off of it.

You sound mad. Sorry that a couple of friendly 0.0 alliances want to exploit this isk faucet before CCP tightens it up like they did Incursions.

HUN bros best bros, sell me a cambion? <3

These people jumped on me for using these terms 'incorrectly' too. Space lawyers and space economists are abundant in FW. They get angry if you imply people in FW get rich.

99% sure these people fly gunless frigate alts to farm plexes and this definitional nonsense is what they use to rationalize it. Don't know why the just can't admit they are farming a broken system.

We all are.

Do you recieve the ISK that is generated from the sale of the moon goo directly into your wallet? I would bet not, and I would bet the guy who does get that ISK would have a different story to tell.

The fact that you have a 1.5 BILLION isk carrier and you are willing to risk it ratting, suggests you have significantly more income per hour than the average lv4 mission runner, or even the average FW pilot. You don't see FW fleets of caps roaming for the lols. If FW is such an isk faucet as people suggest, why isn't the average FW pilot who has at least couple months of time in, running around in a cap?

*snip*

There is no guy who does get that isk. That isk is put into alliance reimbursement, refueling, sov, and subsidy programs. Let's say TEST distributed all of it's moon income to all of it's players. Assuming that ONLY 5% of the entire 8,000 characters in TEST are real people and not alts, or are not inactive. That leaves us with 400 people. I'll give you a hint, the actual number is far higher, but for the sake of your little delusion, we'll work with it.

According to the TEST finances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlnyNGc6PAOwdG1LaW5EQlJ6VTNNQXZiU3haQmtZemc&authkey=CKbl8ZwI&hl=en&authkey=CKbl8ZwI#gid=0

TEST makes ~4.3 billion isk a day from moon goo. Lets further assume, for your delusion, that none of that goes to paying for sov bills or POS fuel in the 252 solar systems TEST owns. Let's also ignore the fact that TEST loses about 330m a day since we're paying for all the new sov we've taken and are working on new infrastructure. That means that, if distributed, each of the "400" members gets about 100 *million* isk a day from the moon goo.

100m a DAY. I kept track of my plexing for the minmatar. Both my time, the LP I generated, and the isk that came out of it. Making 200m an HOUR was a low end estimate. With my three frigates that was 600m AN HOUR. So you're telling me that, again if, another assumption, you only had one account (that was afk 85% of the time) you would rather get your 100m a day instead of 1) being reimbursed for your ship and 2) plexing for half an hour to get the same?

I hope I've illustrated the point of the amount of wealth you can generate through FW plexing.


The hypothetical ratting thanatos (I can't fly one, sad sad), is an investment. And it's not "running around nullsec", it's most likely in a very safe deep nullsec system watching intel channels and local like a hawk. Ratting in one is relatively safe IF you are paying close attention, something you can completely ignore in FW plexes. On a good day, you can make 120m/hr in your thanatos, and that's pushing it. A lot of isk, to be sure. But still nothing compared to FW plexes. My buddy assigns fighters to 3 tengus, he can get upwards of 320m an hour. Compared to my 3 frigates making 600m/hr. The only difference is ratting is an instant source of isk, whereas FW you have to wait for your faction to get T5, and you can't dump all your items at once.

And you don't see caps running around, "for the lols" in nullsec either. If any pvp is done in them it's in organized groups; much like how dreads are used in faction warfare. You don't go run around in carrier gangs because...well I mean it's absurd. The damage isn't that great, you'd have to cyno into every system, you're extremely vulnerable without sub-cap support.


You can also take a look at goon finances here: https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CMng2u0B&hl=en&key=t4gil31Tka1BLmldBaMcugQ&hl=en&authkey=CMng2u0B#gid=5

They have more members (total and active) than TEST, and a lot more moons. Draw your own conclusions.

How big is Hun Reloaded?

OK First, I would ask that you refrain from being belligerent. I am attempting to have an intelligent conversation with you, and it's rather difficult to do so to someone insulting you simply for taking a different stance. I have been nothing but cordial towards you, I only ask you do the same.

Second, I will concede that it should not be easy mode for ab fit tank only frigates to complete plexes in FW. I never suggested otherwise. But stating that you can plex in an afk frigate and that FW is broken, in my opinion, are two totally different balls of wax. It is an aspect of FW that could be improved, and would make things more interesting in low sec as you would see more than the swarms of incursus' and merlins roaming around.

Third, I can accept and agree that it's better to funnel that isk into a corp reimbursement program. Share the wealth and all, it's a great idea and if your alliance legitimately pulls it off, more power to you! But, if you are reimbursed for your ships, why are you farming money to begin with? What is it that you desire that the alliance ship reimbursement program does not provide? Is this an internet spaceship game for you, or rather an alternate reality commodities exchange game for you? Very few FW corps or alliances provide a ship reimbursement program, they expect you to be self-sufficient, and that means being able to pay for your losses which can get expensive for one person to handle.

Finally I think it unwise to feel like the Minnie/Amarr warzone is a reflection on FW as a whole. I think the Caldari/Gallente warzone is a better representation of what CCP intended. Mostly sitting at T1-T3 and the every so often push into T4 to cash out some nice profit before the otherside pushes you back into T3. I would bet that with the influx of Nulli and HUN into FW for Amarr will create all kinds of chaos when they try to push T5, and sometime after that the battlezone will start to look more like the Caldari/Gallente zone.

I'll stick to my original argument, with an addendum from you for now:

Please stop referring to FW as broken. *addendum* Some aspects such as afk plexing majors in t1 frigs need work *end addendum* but the argument that FW is broken as a whole seems more an attack on a different way to play the game rather than a legitimate discussion on if the entire game feature is a detriment to the game. (i.e. broken) FW should be a riskier alternative to High Sec Mission Running that yields larger rewards to offset the increased risk to ship and crew and should foster individual profitability for the individual capsuleer, and not feed the coffers of large alliances.

You're making more money than I do. Obviously the game is broken.

I have no issue with Nulli. Just simply stating facts based off his comparison.

No he didnt use it in a generic term. He compared it to incursions which were an ISK Faucet as it created ISK that was not in the game before. Had he just called it an ISK faucet without that comparison I could buy your story that it was use generically.

For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink.
.

Actually the Tiered FW system is reducing the LP store ISK sink! I suspect if it continues next February the LP store ISK sink will be reduced from 6 trillion to ~4 trillion. The only new LP store demand ( by NULLI interestingly ) created appears to be for Navy 'Geddons & that is pure LP no ISK sunk at all. Tier 4 reduces the ISK sink by 50% & Tier 5 by 75% sure it'll be nice having cheaper faction items but in the longrun we'll have more ISK in the economy.

Well first of all, nobody "jumped on you"; you were simply corrected for misusing/misunderstanding the term "ISK Faucet". Instead of being thankful for the educational experience, you took it personally and got defensive over it, trying to argue your way out of it and doing your darned best not to learn something new.

Judging from the language you're using here ("these people jumped on me"), you obviously felt as though you were being attacked, even though that was not the case. My advise to you is to not take things on Internet Spaceship Forums so seriously. It' bad for your health (high blood pressure and digestive troubles can be linked to confrontational mindsets).

Yet you later had posts cleansed for being a troll, which is what you are doing now. Shush.

Actually the Tiered FW system is reducing the LP store ISK sink! I suspect if it continues next February the LP store ISK sink will be reduced from 6 trillion the previous year to ~4 trillion in 2013. The only new LP store demand ( by NULLI interestingly ) created appears to be for Navy 'Geddons & that is pure LP no ISK sunk at all. Tier 4 reduces the ISK sink by 50% & Tier 5 by 75% sure it'll be nice having cheaper faction items but in the longrun we'll have more ISK in the economy.

Where are you getting this extra ISK in the economy? Navy Geddons still create a sink. Someone produces the Geddon which is then sold. ISK goes away in this process due to taxes and broker fees. The Geddon is then turned into a Navy Geddon in the LP store which again no ISK is created. That Navy Geddon is then sold on the market which again creates an ISK sink through broker fees and taxes. The pilot that is selling the Navy Geddon gets ISK from another pilot. That ISK is not created it is ISK that exists in the game and is passed from one pilot to another. Hence it is wealth redistribution.

If the Navy Geddon is used for personal use then again no ISK is created and it gets destroyed in combat at a later date.

I am some how missing where people get that the FW LP Store creates ISK. The most it does when it comes to the the selling of items generated in the LP store is the redistribution of wealth hence no new ISK in the economy.

This is also controlled in the end by supply and demand. If the demand for FW products decreases the amount of wealth redistribution also decreases.

Actually, the isk sink is the same in terms of isk/lp whether you're at Tier 1 or Tier 5 because both scale with the FW Tier payouts. If there is more lp being turned in, then necessarily there is more isk removed from the economy. Has there been more LP turned in since the patch? The answer is probably yes.

Just because the things I said upset you and made you feel bad, doesn't mean I'm "trolling". Pointing out that you incorrectly used the term "ISK Faucet" is also not trolling. Also none of my posts regarding the subject we removed.

So yeah.

I started writing out another big long post explaining why you're wrong, but here's this:

It IS broken. There are two, "games" in faction warfare. One game is the small gang roams, the solo pvp. The target rich environment with lots of people to fight and to fight with. This game is not broken; it's probably one of the best places in EVE to go pvp, probably one of the most fun too.

KRAKENDOT is most likely the most powerful entity within Caldari milltia v0v

The ISK per item at tiers 4&5 is redeuced 50% and 75% respectively. You probably will get a demand jump from these items if they are offered significantly cheaper but no where near the ISK reductions but I'm willing to bet no more then 10% ( and probably much less IMHO). The ISK per LP scaling arguement is silly... I suppose you'd argue if the ISK&LP reductions were equally reduced 99.99% (or greater) you'd still see the same results?

wow another alliance decides to give FW a shot and all the "elite" faction warriors come out of the woods mocking them

[OK, let's think this through for a minute here.
1. isk sunk/LP ratio stays the same. Confirmed.
2. More LP turned in. Assumed.
3. (isk sunk/LP)* LP turned in = isk sunk. Fact.

Assuming more LP turned in, then yes there is more isk sunk.

wrong you forgot points 4&5
Tier 4. (isk sunk/LP)* LP/2 turned in = isk sunk halved. Fact.
Tier 5. (isk sunk/LP)* LP*.75 turned in = isk sunk three-quartered. Fact.

Once thing I learned about farming in Incursions which will translate into FW farming: You are going to end up with a crap ton of LP at the end of the day because the LP markets will eventually collapse because the demand does not keep up.

This is my last shot at it because I cannot help the math-impaired. The assumption is in 2.) MORE LP TURNED IN.
Example: If the same amount of LP was turned in at Tier 5, then 4 times as many items have been purchased. However, the same amount of isk has been sunk.

Do you think more LP has been turned in since this expansion?

So where is the increased DEMAND comming from for all these items? Not from me I got 4.5 million Concord LP I'm sitting on. Start undercutting all the other LP stores you will see some increased demand but you're going to soon find out how inelastic it is.

I wish the GOONs were able to keep all their FW bought +4 & +5 'plants just to speed up whats going to be happening over the next few months.

You are whining about isk - isk/lp ratios that will go down because FW items will flood market.
I am talking about "isk sink" - the amount of isk removed from the Eve economy by purchasing an LP store item.

Must be a language barrier thing.

No idea if FW is a sink or faucet but I have 20b worth of **** in my hangar from a few weeks of playing

The Faction item supply is going to way outstrip the demand the ratios are not going to help that at all. Ergo since the Tier 4 ISK reductions per item is now 75% the Tier 3 normal LP price you will be seeing a significant total LP store ISK sink reduction come February if not sooner unless people just let thier stuff sit in their hangars & continue to buy more.

BTW, if prices go down too far, we'll all be flying navy faction ships and will be derping into each other 23/7. Resource rich, isk poor, but having fun.

The Faction item supply is going to way outstrip the demand the ratios are not going to help that at all. Ergo since the Tier 4 ISK reductions per item is now 75% the Tier 3 normal LP price you will be seeing a significant total LP store ISK sink reduction come February if not sooner unless people just let thier stuff sit in their hangars & continue to buy more.



lol Lyron I suggest selling it before X-Mass or your **** will be worth alot less then 20b and you won't be able to sell it anyways.
It is not an ISK faucet but it'll definately start eating away at the LP stores' ISK sink function for the economy ( hmm one thing I've not accounted for is the new FW datacores are they now a new ISK sink? and are they too now also affected by the 75% ISK reduction

EDIT: Interesting Datacores are now an 10k ISK sink NPC sell order for the old datacore farmers
and a new LP store item @ 50k ISK(at Tier 3) so a new ISK sink was introduced to Eve)

EDIT: Interesting Datacores are now an 10k ISK sink NPC sell order for the old datacore farmers
and a new LP store item @ 50k ISK(at Tier 3) so a new ISK sink was introduced to Eve)

OK, let's think this through for a minute here.
1. isk sunk/LP ratio stays the same. Confirmed.
2. More LP turned in. Assumed.
3. (isk sunk/LP)* LP turned in = isk sunk. Fact.

Assuming more LP turned in, then yes there is more isk sunk.