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Self Destruct to avoid Killmail

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Arthello D00M. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2010.10.17 12:05:00 - [31] When you saw that he was going to loose you should've changed to faction fusion ammo and gone closer. Overload your guns and let'er rip. He would've gone down if he was already deep into armor. Kiting is definitely a viable tactic, but you were on the clock when he initiated self-destruct. Then you have to go close. I do however agree that you should've got a killmail even if he's self-destructing. They could fix it by setting killmails on the same timer as aggression -- within 15 minutes. PS. If CCP decided to remove killmails altogether the EVE universe would've been a whole lot more boring as many of the competitive PvP'ers would leave. Myself included. Call it e-peen I don't care. Killmails is what drives me in this game just as making ISK or building empires drives others. It's all about the e-peen. Why collecting killmails is worse is beyond me.
AterraX Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.17 14:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. +1 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character...
YesI'mWatching Tyrell Corp	Posted - 2010.10.17 15:43:00 - [33] In the same way that I get on a killmail if i agro someone who later gets blown up (session change excluded), I dont think it's unreasonable to expect to be on the killmail if a pilot self destructs. The problem is because the final blow gets the mail, in this case a suicidee, you would still miss out. You say he picked up your can, so I'm guessing this was either at a station or a gate, I'm suprised he didn't just deagro and jump/dock.
Radcjk Karmic Asylum Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.10.17 17:11:00 - [34] I'd have hundreds more kill mails over the last 4 years if it weren't for things like ransoms. He denied you assets and epeen. Oh well. You won, and you know it. So what does it really matter?
Junkie Babe	Posted - 2010.10.17 22:34:00 - [35] Originally by: Jones Bones If your shield cane can't break an armor cane in 2 minutes......you're pathetic. I don't get this mind set, in my old corp my former CEO said if you could destroy your enemy in 1 minute your crap at pvp, My harbinger with my skills has 66k EFHP and does 572 DPS with my skills, it would take me 116 seconds to destroy my ship assuming same skills and with EFT dps which is depandant on huge stationary target and 100% hit chance which you never get in actual fighting and assuming I can actually get to multi range since I use mwd which can be shut off before I can get to that range, I mostly use scorch which does less and won't destroy my ship in 2 mins even with EFT dps which you never get in the actual field.
Ruhige Schmerz Valhalla Naval Corp	Posted - 2010.10.17 23:42:00 - [36] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. This Signed
Wormm Caldari Cypheron Corporation	Posted - 2010.10.18 01:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Arthello When you saw that he was going to loose you should've changed to faction fusion ammo and gone closer. Overload your guns and let'er rip. Maybe this wasnt an option? As far as I know not everyone carrys a cargo hold to handle every single situation which may come up.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.10.18 03:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Wormm Originally by: Arthello When you saw that he was going to loose you should've changed to faction fusion ammo and gone closer. Overload your guns and let'er rip. Maybe this wasnt an option? As far as I know not everyone carrys a cargo hold to handle every single situation which may come up. Not everyone succeeds in a situation when others do. There tends to be logical reasons for such. Flying minmatar for PvP and not carrying fusion ammo is another level of fail if true in this circumstance, and all situations. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Mestophoclies	Posted - 2010.10.19 06:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. This.
Joe McAlt	Posted - 2010.10.20 03:47:00 - [40] Killmails should be banned. Insurance should not be paid to self destruct. Nor should it be paid to those who die by concords hand as this is a form of self destruct. Self destruct should be allowed because it causes so many tears form KM *****s
Joe McAlt	Posted - 2010.10.20 03:50:00 - [41] Also, in high sec at least, a guy could take a potshot at a neutral and have a pretty good shot at having Concord dust him before the wining ship could. You might get the loot, but the killmail still goes bye bye
fogbird Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.20 12:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Sully Tude Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. This. @ OP: Are you so pathetic that you require a lousy piece of code to validate your entire existance? Get over it. double this!
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.10.20 13:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. 100% Agreed. The concept of getting killmails and keeping stats up in turn leads to a "win at any cost" mentality among the players that encourages metagaming, exploiting, and other activities that would otherwise ruin the good-natured fun that should come from playing this--or any--game. My stats are relatively crappy because I'm the type of player who would rather lose a close fight that lasted minutes and had me biting my nails as to the outcome than be handed a free kill. And you know what? I don't care. I treat it like what it is--a game, one that I only play when the weather doesn't permit going out and riding on my motorcycle, or my financial situation won't allow for spending a weekend with the family out an an amusement park. And I certainly won't take it any more seriously than I absolutely have to.
Laktos Beyond Redemption Corp	Posted - 2010.10.21 03:34:00 - [44] "I don't like killmails and don't care about them therefore they should be removed from the game" Pfft, please! Thousands of years ago soldiers would take trophys from the battlefield after a victory. Today soldiers on the battlefield get medals for serving etc etc. In almost any type of combat, whether it be for life or death or just in a game, people have always wanted some sort of recognition of what they achieved. So call me an e-peen such and such or a loser with no life. But when I win a fight I want some sort of lasting proof that the fight happened and how good or bad I performed. If you don't like killmails, fine, noone's forcing you to post them, noones forcing you to even open your kills section on your character sheet. But let us who find satisfaction in receiving a killmail enjoy it. There's also an argument that killmails encourage blobbing or not engaging when the odds are against you to avoid a lossmail. Maybe for some people that's true, but for me personally my stats on battleclinic only encourage me to become a better pvper. To learn how to take on gangs while solo, to avoid throwing my ship away needlessly and getting the absolute most out of the situation at hand before finally succumbing. EVE is a game, just like any other game or even sport, when people win they want others to know about it. CCP fulfills this natural thirst through the killmail system. As to the OP's complaint. The simple fact is that when someone self-destructs to avoid creating a lossmail they self-destructed because of the aggressor. The hurricane was destroyed because of YOU, no matter who got the final blow. So I completely agree, self-destructing while under fire from a player should generate a killmail and I hope CCP fix this asap.
AterraX Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.21 12:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Laktos "I don't like killmails and don't care about them therefore they should be removed from the game" Pfft, please! Thousands of years ago soldiers would take trophys from the battlefield after a victory. Today soldiers on the battlefield get medals for serving etc etc. In almost any type of combat, whether it be for life or death or just in a game, people have always wanted some sort of recognition of what they achieved. So call me an e-peen such and such or a loser with no life. But when I win a fight I want some sort of lasting proof that the fight happened and how good or bad I performed. If you don't like killmails, fine, noone's forcing you to post them, noones forcing you to even open your kills section on your character sheet. But let us who find satisfaction in receiving a killmail enjoy it. There's also an argument that killmails encourage blobbing or not engaging when the odds are against you to avoid a lossmail. Maybe for some people that's true, but for me personally my stats on battleclinic only encourage me to become a better pvper. To learn how to take on gangs while solo, to avoid throwing my ship away needlessly and getting the absolute most out of the situation at hand before finally succumbing. EVE is a game, just like any other game or even sport, when people win they want others to know about it. CCP fulfills this natural thirst through the killmail system. As to the OP's complaint. The simple fact is that when someone self-destructs to avoid creating a lossmail they self-destructed because of the aggressor. The hurricane was destroyed because of YOU, no matter who got the final blow. So I completely agree, self-destructing while under fire from a player should generate a killmail and I hope CCP fix this asap. I am a former veteran and my response to your post is in the line of head to desk ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character...
Laktos Beyond Redemption Corp	Posted - 2010.10.21 12:49:00 - [46] Edited by: Laktos on 21/10/2010 12:55:59 Originally by: AterraX Originally by: Laktos "I don't like killmails and don't care about them therefore they should be removed from the game" Pfft, please! Thousands of years ago soldiers would take trophys from the battlefield after a victory. Today soldiers on the battlefield get medals for serving etc etc. In almost any type of combat, whether it be for life or death or just in a game, people have always wanted some sort of recognition of what they achieved. So call me an e-peen such and such or a loser with no life. But when I win a fight I want some sort of lasting proof that the fight happened and how good or bad I performed. If you don't like killmails, fine, noone's forcing you to post them, noones forcing you to even open your kills section on your character sheet. But let us who find satisfaction in receiving a killmail enjoy it. There's also an argument that killmails encourage blobbing or not engaging when the odds are against you to avoid a lossmail. Maybe for some people that's true, but for me personally my stats on battleclinic only encourage me to become a better pvper. To learn how to take on gangs while solo, to avoid throwing my ship away needlessly and getting the absolute most out of the situation at hand before finally succumbing. EVE is a game, just like any other game or even sport, when people win they want others to know about it. CCP fulfills this natural thirst through the killmail system. As to the OP's complaint. The simple fact is that when someone self-destructs to avoid creating a lossmail they self-destructed because of the aggressor. The hurricane was destroyed because of YOU, no matter who got the final blow. So I completely agree, self-destructing while under fire from a player should generate a killmail and I hope CCP fix this asap. I am a former veteran and my response to your post is in the line of head to desk Nice posting on an alt there bud ;) And don't mistake my post as comparing EVE to real-life warfare. I'm simply using it as an example of some sort of combative action where people want recognition of the things they did. I could use countless other examples. People earn trophys and medals in sports for example.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.21 14:47:00 - [47] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 21/10/2010 14:50:24 Originally by: Junkie Babe My harbinger with my skills has 66k EFHP and does 572 DPS with my skills, it would take me 116 seconds to destroy my ship assuming same skills and with EFT dps which is depandant on huge stationary target and 100% hit chance which you never get in actual fighting and assuming I can actually get to multi range since I use mwd which can be shut off before I can get to that range, I mostly use scorch which does less and won't destroy my ship in 2 mins even with EFT dps which you never get in the actual field. That would be logical...assuming you start every fight by hitting Self-Destruct and only canceling it if you win. Fights that end in self-destruction usually last must longer than two minutes, because the destructee fights until he's sure he can't win or escape the situation first. Anyway, "I didn't get a KM" tears are the tastiest of all. HTFU. ED: For the record, removing kill-mails is a ridiculous idea. Removing self-destruction or adding KMs to it is just as ridiculous.
Rhak Amharr Minmatar Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.10.21 14:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Jhestre He was heavily armor tanked and I was keeping range to maintain my shield tank and avoid his guns. I was fitted for speed and long lasting cap for mwd. My fitting worked beautifully until the coward decided to use flawed game mechanics to escape a kill mail. So what I read from this post is the following: - You traded Gyros/TEs for CPRs or PDUs or some stuff (thus reducing your damage/rof/falloff and reducing your effective DPS) - You nearly permamwd'd around him (thus increasing transversal and reducing your effective DPS) - You were a coward for not getting closer when he started self-destructing (thus increasing your range to the target and reducing your effective DPS) And you complain about that you couldn't kill him in time. It looks like it is obviously your fault. Not that I'm a fan of self-destruct myself, but this is just plain pathetic.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.21 15:02:00 - [49] Get better tactics, failing that just get a life. ~_~
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.10.21 16:07:00 - [50] "3. No insurance payout to Self Destructing players." See, I think this is a foolish idea and is simply spite making you say this. You view self destructing only in the context of your recent adventures. You fail to realize that self destructing and recieving a payout could be benificial to some. I can think of 2 scenarios: 1) You are stuck in a wormhole. Either you lost your probes, your probing alt was killed, or your corp just left you there by mistake or due to inactivity. Self destructing may be the only way out. At least with a pay out, you get a minor bit of compensation. 2) You are being expelled from your nul sec alliance. No time to sell the ships, just go out, SD them for the insurance and get yourself out. It happens, and sometimes it's the only way to make a positibe from the crappy position you are in. So really, think about self destructing not just from your own jaded point of view before you get so set against it.
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers	Posted - 2010.10.22 00:10:00 - [51] What you wrote: Originally by: Sean Faust Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. 100% Agreed. The concept of getting killmails and keeping stats up in turn leads to a "win at any cost" mentality among the players that encourages metagaming, exploiting, and other activities that would otherwise ruin the good-natured fun that should come from playing this--or any--game. My stats are relatively crappy because I'm the type of player who would rather lose a close fight that lasted minutes and had me biting my nails as to the outcome than be handed a free kill. And you know what? I don't care. I treat it like what it is--a game, one that I only play when the weather doesn't permit going out and riding on my motorcycle, or my financial situation won't allow for spending a weekend with the family out an an amusement park. And I certainly won't take it any more seriously than I absolutely have to. What I read: Originally by: Sean Faust WAAAAAH I GOT GANKED IN HIGHSEC AND THE NASTY PIWATES POSTED MY S**TFIT IN LOCAL AND LAUGHED AT ME
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.10.22 13:15:00 - [52] Edited by: Sean Faust on 22/10/2010 13:20:48 Edited by: Sean Faust on 22/10/2010 13:18:59 Originally by: Jovan Geldon What you wrote: Originally by: Sean Faust Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. 100% Agreed. The concept of getting killmails and keeping stats up in turn leads to a "win at any cost" mentality among the players that encourages metagaming, exploiting, and other activities that would otherwise ruin the good-natured fun that should come from playing this--or any--game. My stats are relatively crappy because I'm the type of player who would rather lose a close fight that lasted minutes and had me biting my nails as to the outcome than be handed a free kill. And you know what? I don't care. I treat it like what it is--a game, one that I only play when the weather doesn't permit going out and riding on my motorcycle, or my financial situation won't allow for spending a weekend with the family out an an amusement park. And I certainly won't take it any more seriously than I absolutely have to. What I read: Originally by: Sean Faust WAAAAAH I GOT GANKED IN HIGHSEC AND THE NASTY PIWATES POSTED MY STFIT IN LOCAL AND LAUGHED AT ME Err . . wha? I've never been ganked in high sec. Ever in my three years of playing the game. Mostly because I've been in 0.0 and pirate corps since I started playing. I don't know where you get any of that from. In fact I was the one doing the ganking. But it got old, being handed free kills. Being a killmail *** isn't fun to me anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Over my time playing the game, I've come to learn that any combat encounter where the outcome is already a foregone conclusion is just time wasted to me. What's wrong with wanting close fights rather than free kills? That's why I choose not to fly with blobs, why I choose to fly small ships that require manual piloting and pilot skill, and why the FCs I fly with trust my judgment when I do something other than what I'm ordered to do. Also, almost every fight I was ever in ended with my opponent being added to my in-game friends list because we had fun and learned to respect one another. Seriously, how old are you, 14?
Tiver Gladius	Posted - 2010.10.25 19:26:00 - [53] Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. ^ This is the solution... Self-Destruct is not a fault or exploit of game mechanics... if you fight another ship and they self destruct, you have won the fight. Do you really have to have the killmail 'trophy'? If so, then the guy that self-destructed won because you're here complaining about it.
Tiver Gladius	Posted - 2010.10.25 19:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Roosterton Better idea, remove all killmails. All it does is encourage E-peen warriors to grow their E-peen, while adding no fun-value to the game. ^ This is the solution... Self-Destruct is not a fault or exploit of game mechanics... if you fight another ship and they self destruct, you have won the fight. Do you really have to have the killmail 'trophy'? If so, then the guy that self-destructed won because you're here complaining about it.
Tusen Takk Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division	Posted - 2010.10.28 16:08:00 - [55] Edited by: Tusen Takk on 28/10/2010 16:11:06 i use killmails to figure out how viable a wt is in battle and how to pick my targets, as well as how their corp is doing so killmails are useful shut up about not having good kms your irl *** is small lose some weight also dont get rid of killmails lol thats ****ed
Izuru Hishido Amarr Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.28 21:35:00 - [56] Edited by: Izuru Hishido on 28/10/2010 21:37:08 The original reason for the introduction of the 'self destruct' function was simply so that people couldn't keep someone pinned down forever and the only choice was to eject and give the aggressors a free ship and mods. Self destructing is perfectly fine, especially if you've got a bunch of people shooting at your freighter and they're in small stuff like cruisers and can't possibly kill you in time... OR You have a capital or supercapital and you just really don't want to give the idiots the satisfaction of a killmail. Granted, in lowsec, there are many ways around this, but for the occasional roaming ock gang in 0.0 that can throw up a dictor bubble and just pick away at HP, its nice to have an alternative if you can't get any friends online to help you out, as opposed to getting killed when you were doing something like ratting and not watching local. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his."
kerjin Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.10.29 02:13:00 - [57] Remove the ship self destruct menu option, I put this on the same level as the old warplogoffski exploit. If you are stuck or want to instadock then eject and self destruct your pod! Remove "insurance" altogether, its just a subsidy to afk hisec miners, remove the hisec roids and factorys.
Running missions	Posted - 2010.10.29 04:39:00 - [58] nothing is wrong. you just think killmails mean something
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.10.30 04:33:00 - [59] Edited by: Space Pinata on 30/10/2010 04:37:32 What most people say. Sure, kiting is a viable tactic. I could fly a crow and orbit people all day plinking away with 70 dps worth the missiles. I bet they wouldn't kill me! I could then whinge on the forums that my not-dps-fitted ship didn't have enough dps. Congrats, you fit a ship designed to be annoying and not to win a war (sort of like people who ask for frigate 1v1's and fly plated trimarked frigates as if that fit has any use anywhere except 1v1 trolling), and then your plan backfired. Cry some more. Edit: The entire POINT of self destruct is to deny you satisfaction and loot. The entire tactic is based around denial. They sacrifice their ship and everything on it to deny you a killmail and a few mil... And it works beautifully. The tears generated by a self destructed ship are greater than the tears generated by destroying the entire enemy fleet.

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