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Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 17/10/2010 15:33:54 Drugs are good, m'kay; a booster revamp proposal
Current situation Combat boosters exist in Eve. However, their usage is limited. And with a very low usage also comes very low market activity and limited production activity. K-space gas cloud products (raw materials for boosters) are nearly worthless and all products involved with booster production have a very low trade volume. This is aggravated by the fact that many alliances do their booster production in-house.
A big reason they are not used much is because of their side effects (ignoring Synth boosters that give only a small benefit and are ignored by a lot of people because of it). For most players, the chance of having your play time messed up by unfortunate side effects outweighs the benefit of greatly increasing one stat. This means combat booster usage is mostly restricted to specialised pilots in specific situations.
I am quite fond of boosters and the edgy, dystopian image they represent. I think they fit Eve perfectly, and would like to see them used more. This proposal suggests a solution that aims to increase booster usage, and with it booster production.
Solution The solution is split into a core component as well as several optional suggestions. While I think they all complement eachother, the optional suggestions are not strictly necessary for the idea to work.
Revamped booster mechanics (core) The core of this solution is a change to the way booster penalties are applied. Currently, there's a chance for any of four penalties to be applied for the duration of your booster. This means that if you're very unlucky, the penalties undo the beneficial effect of the booster.
Instead, I propose to delay the penalties until AFTER the booster (and it's beneficial effect) wears off - similar to the 'come down' experienced after using real life drugs. The benefit is that someone can be certain of beneficial effects when they take their booster. They also know that when the booster wears off, they will suffer the penalties. But you can plan for that. Maybe you log off, maybe your op only lasts an hour anyway. Or maybe you take another booster!
When you take a booster, any negative effects from previous boosters are removed. However, once this second booster wears off, the negative effects will return... worse! With a longer duration and possibly also higher intensity. It is like going on a really long coke/xtc binge, the eventual crash will be much worse than if you only take one line of coke/pill.
This mechanic will encourage the casual use of boosters, as you are guaranteed a strong positive effect for the duration of the booster without any penalties... until the booster wears off.
This mechanic will also mean some pilots may develop actual addictions, where the total penalties of their repeated booster use have become so great they have to keep taking boosters or accept a very long detox time. This also allows for the development of a special detox booster that does not offer any stat boost but only decreases the intensity or duration of the negative effects (like methadon for a her0in addict). |
Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:30:00 -
[2]
Low sec is booster central (optional) As 'the slums of empire space', I think Low Sec is has the perfect profile to match drug manufacturing. This can be encouraged by seeding certain booster raw materials ONLY in low sec. This would most likely require some more components to be needed for booster production. Additionally, booster BPCs should become more available through low sec exploration sites, to allow for more trade and to handle the increased demand. Again, low sec is a great place for that.
Additionally, allow booster production in 0.4 space. The current restriction on 0.3 or lower seems to have no good justification as 0.4 space is not any less dangerous than 0.3.
More boosters (optional) To further promote the use of boosters, more boosters could be made available. As mentioned above, a detox booster could be made. There could be EWAR related boosters, energy warfare and tackling related boosters. There could be boosters to increase cyno jump range, mining yield and invention success rate. You could also add a tier of boosters between Synth and Standard. Still illegal but not as expensive (and not quite as strong) as Standard boosters. All of this would be player produced and player marketed. The possibilities are endless!
Pro's and cons Pro * More booster trading means drug manufacturing/smuggling can be a real profession * More variation in ship abilities through booster-improved setups
Con * Boosters may become 'standard' for pvp, similar to rigs. Players may need to be drugged up to compete
* * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
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Ellin Einher
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:40:00 -
[3]
I like boosters and I really think they should have a wider market than they do today. I support you :)
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Borgh Brainbasher
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:41:00 -
[4]
Don't forget to support yourself!
I like the idea although I think it would be good to have some antilogofski mechanic. Maybe logging should only remove part of the comedown so that you will always have a hangover the next time you log on. This will be countered by docking up and cloaks but at least it will give people a reason to stay logged on and not take the too-easy way out.
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Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.10.17 15:51:00 -
[5]
This was an idea that you described in the Low Sec Focus Group I conducted during my CSM campaign. It was well received by the group then, and sounds even better with this excellent description. I for one think that the Low Sec option could be a pivotal element in an overall revamp or makeover of Low Sec, providing a very good incentive to making Low Sec matter.
Very much supported; when this gets raised in CSM, it will have my enthusiastic vote of support.
Life In Low Sec |
TeaDaze
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Posted - 2010.10.17 16:32:00 -
[6]
Supported
TeaDaze.net Blog | CSM Database |
De'Veldrin
CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.17 16:39:00 -
[7]
Never used boosters myself, but this sounds like a good change.
Supported. --Vel
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count sporkula
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Posted - 2010.10.17 18:42:00 -
[8]
oh my gosh. i think you found the holy hand-grenade of Antioch. if what you proposed were in place i would actually use them.
sweet!!
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.17 20:02:00 -
[9]
Nice idea, supported.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.10.17 20:14:00 -
[10]
DRUGS! jajaja <3
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Maz3r Rakum
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.10.17 20:32:00 -
[11]
if all the cool kids are doing it.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.10.17 21:45:00 -
[12]
NOT SUPPORTED.
Having used boosters plenty of times, I find the mechanics to be rather well balanced as is. If side effects were delayed it would be WAY too overpowered. You pop your booster, win/survive your fight, and then dock up when the side effects kick in. Side effects would never have an impact. Boosters then become an "I win" button for those that can afford them. With production limited to low/null, and the dramatically overpowered benefit they would give (one could even say mandatory to stay competitive in PvP), it would be a seller's market and price would remain high or even increase. Sorry, but your proposal displays a rather naive interpretation of gamer mentality, and a serious lack of game balance.
By the way, there are skills which reduce both the chance and amount of side effect. Once trained you will very rarely get all 4 side effects, and occasionally I have had no side effects at all. Randomness is good.
However, I do agree that making ladar sites more available in lowsec would be a plus. But only a minor one. Widespread gas harvesting in lowsec is about as likely as mining in lowsec. Not gonna happen. Harvesting will stay in null where space is somewhat more controllable and far safer than lowsec. As a result, boosters will continue to be primarily done for in-house nullsec use, and will stay low volume on the open market. Doesn't matter where you seed the BPCs, the ability to safely obtain the base material is the clincher. It's exactly like mining. Imagine if you could only pull Veld from low or null...
I like the idea of making boosters more commonly used, but your idea needs more work.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2010.10.17 22:22:00 -
[13]
I know there's skills. I have neurotoxin recovery IV and nanite control IV. The goal of this proposal is to take combat boosters out of obscurity and into mainstream. And that means making them or their use more popular. Which means more people will produce them and more people will look for it's resources. Low sec gas cloud mining never has to be huge (you dont need that much gas cloud materials for a batch of boosters), but as it is k-space gas clouds are completely worthless.
As for not suffering any side effects in this system - a side effect could be slower learning, or it could last a lot longer. I didnt mention specific details like that because balancing that is the job of CCPs game designers.
If you feel combat boosters should remain a rarity in Eve, then fine, but I think it would be a lot more interesting if many more players used them. Similarly to what happened with rigs.
* * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
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Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
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Posted - 2010.10.17 22:36:00 -
[14]
great idea. drug addicted pilots ingame played by eve addicted players. i love it.
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Arkanor
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2010.10.17 22:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff NOT SUPPORTED.
Having used boosters plenty of times, I find the mechanics to be rather well balanced as is. If side effects were delayed it would be WAY too overpowered. You pop your booster, win/survive your fight, and then dock up when the side effects kick in. Side effects would never have an impact. Boosters then become an "I win" button for those that can afford them. With production limited to low/null, and the dramatically overpowered benefit they would give (one could even say mandatory to stay competitive in PvP), it would be a seller's market and price would remain high or even increase. Sorry, but your proposal displays a rather naive interpretation of gamer mentality, and a serious lack of game balance.
By the way, there are skills which reduce both the chance and amount of side effect. Once trained you will very rarely get all 4 side effects, and occasionally I have had no side effects at all. Randomness is good.
However, I do agree that making ladar sites more available in lowsec would be a plus. But only a minor one. Widespread gas harvesting in lowsec is about as likely as mining in lowsec. Not gonna happen. Harvesting will stay in null where space is somewhat more controllable and far safer than lowsec. As a result, boosters will continue to be primarily done for in-house nullsec use, and will stay low volume on the open market. Doesn't matter where you seed the BPCs, the ability to safely obtain the base material is the clincher. It's exactly like mining. Imagine if you could only pull Veld from low or null...
I like the idea of making boosters more commonly used, but your idea needs more work.
As much as I very like the basis of Diedra's idea, these issues are going to have to be addressed or it would create the exact opposite spectrum issue.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.10.17 23:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal If you feel combat boosters should remain a rarity in Eve, then fine...
Indeed. That is exactly what I believe. I think I stated that pretty clearly in the last sentence of my previous post. (/sarcasm)
The current side effects are not the issue with boosters. The issue is the cost. Most people find it hard to justify 10+mil for a one-shot Strong booster that will only last half an hour. And the cost comes from the availability of the base materials (and the skills to some degree). You make an excellent comparison with rigs. People didn't use rigs because it was hard to justify spending 10mil on a rig for a frigate. Price dropped, and now people rig frigs.
Make the gas more available and price will drop. And the only way you are going to be able to do that is to put gas pockets in hi-sec (not talking about the synth crap). Downside is that it could possibly destroy the nullsec booster industry.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.18 00:17:00 -
[17]
Supported
I also think using reaction silos to produce booster intermediates is kind of a pain in the ass.
Plus, there are all these booster-only production slots on outposts that are totally silly and rarely used.
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klyeme
Soft War Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.10.18 04:20:00 -
[18]
Sounds good, the comedown period should be double the duration of the positive effect, and double the intensity of the effect so if a booster lasted 15 minutes and boosted your shield repair rate by 25%, the comedown period would be 30 minutes and a 50% reduction in shield repair.
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bartos100
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Posted - 2010.10.18 11:43:00 -
[19]
the biggest problem with boosters now is getting the materials needed for production
the amount of available materials is so low and if you put that together with the isk it takes to set up a production line you get extremely high prizes for boosters which leads to low use
i looked into booster production but apparently each type of gas is only available in 1 region of 0.0 which makes it hard to produce boosters if you don't live in those regions
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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.22 11:22:00 -
[20]
supported
another (additional ?) way to limit the "i win" button effect of the use or not use of drugs would be to give as side effect the impossibility to train skills for a certain amount of time after you have used it (hard to learn anything when you step down after a drug trip) this will much more make ppl who are rich thinking twice before using drugs another (additional ?)drawback of using drugs could be the possibility to.... die, ppl with 22m sp will not be bothered , ppl with 103m sp, a little more
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Faolan Fortune
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Posted - 2010.10.23 01:37:00 -
[21]
I really like the idea. I considered using boosters/smuggling/making them for a long time but it just didn't seem that worthwhile in their current state, too costly for the benefits (If any) and not enough demand to sell for the amount of effort.
May not be an entirely accurate viewpoint but it seems to be common. Under this proposal though I could definitely see myself using Boosters, just like a jumpclone, overheating, implants, rigs etc.
As for the after effects, I'm liking the idea of reduced learning (Makes a lot of sense too, going cold turkey has a damn negative mental effect). A kind of similar effect to using a jumpclone with no implants, reduced attributes and all that.
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Mirei Jun
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.10.23 03:08:00 -
[22]
Placeholder:
As someone who uses combat boosters on a regular basis, there are a number of points here I vehemently disagree with. Some of your ideas are good, but certainly not all.
I will add more to this post later.
MJ
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Running missions
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Posted - 2010.10.23 05:05:00 -
[23]
boosters need buffs, but not like this, smuggling should be worth it, as well. i think if ships designed to smuggle, they have reduced chance of being scanned by NPC's get them into highsec to use during missions/mining to increase dps/yield
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.23 10:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zothike supported
another (additional ?) way to limit the "i win" button effect of the use or not use of drugs would be to give as side effect the impossibility to train skills for a certain amount of time after you have used it (hard to learn anything when you step down after a drug trip) this will much more make ppl who are rich thinking twice before using drugs another (additional ?)drawback of using drugs could be the possibility to.... die, ppl with 22m sp will not be bothered , ppl with 103m sp, a little more
so what happns if i die in the middle of war in my 500 million dollar ship, my ship is suddenly out for grabs? What is a cap pilot uses it? what is a titan pilot dies? (would be awesome though)
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.10.23 13:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff NOT SUPPORTED.
Having used boosters plenty of times, I find the mechanics to be rather well balanced as is. If side effects were delayed it would be WAY too overpowered. You pop your booster, win/survive your fight, and then dock up when the side effects kick in. Side effects would never have an impact. Boosters then become an "I win" button for those that can afford them. With production limited to low/null, and the dramatically overpowered benefit they would give (one could even say mandatory to stay competitive in PvP), it would be a seller's market and price would remain high or even increase. Sorry, but your proposal displays a rather naive interpretation of gamer mentality, and a serious lack of game balance.
By the way, there are skills which reduce both the chance and amount of side effect. Once trained you will very rarely get all 4 side effects, and occasionally I have had no side effects at all. Randomness is good.
However, I do agree that making ladar sites more available in lowsec would be a plus. But only a minor one. Widespread gas harvesting in lowsec is about as likely as mining in lowsec. Not gonna happen. Harvesting will stay in null where space is somewhat more controllable and far safer than lowsec. As a result, boosters will continue to be primarily done for in-house nullsec use, and will stay low volume on the open market. Doesn't matter where you seed the BPCs, the ability to safely obtain the base material is the clincher. It's exactly like mining. Imagine if you could only pull Veld from low or null...
I like the idea of making boosters more commonly used, but your idea needs more work.
this
Not supported at all. (I use boosters for almost every one of my ships, your proposal would make them mandatory to compete.)
However, I'm all for making the gas clouds and BPCs easier to obtain in low sec.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.23 15:29:00 -
[26]
I know it's not popular to introduce new skills (I don't like them either), but the core proposal would be better if there's a skill that shortens the detox time instead of making detox boosters. The reason is simple - detox boosters will be always used. Why make them when you can add a new skill?
Otherwise, the core proposal is actually good. Supported.
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Angst IronShard
Minmatar Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere
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Posted - 2010.10.23 18:00:00 -
[27]
Good idea ! Also, I would like to a better access to COSMOS Ladars. Gaz is the main problem. When you live in Alliance, you have to deal with many red standings to go through other COSMOS regions. It's too hard for an indy booster producer to get nebulae's access. There's not enough cyto ladar available; so make the ladar with random gazes.
o7
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XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.24 02:34:00 -
[28]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 24/10/2010 02:36:10 Supported.
Last September, I started a thread here for some ideas to revamp the booster system. Not sure if op saw it, but lots of similar ideas.
To those saying no, you can't argue that boosters aren't used enough. Just because you use them a lot, doesn't mean they are used in the amount CCP desired upon implementation. A more dynamic system than the current one (addiction mechanics, etc) would help breathe life into boosters.
Also, a lot of you may not like this, but I personally believe that all booster related stuff should be moved to low sec (except mykoserin, keep that in high sec). Give boosters the boost they need and make the gas/bpcs more available and you might see more than 1% of the eve population using them.
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novalogic
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Posted - 2010.10.24 10:16:00 -
[29]
Not supported, leave the taking and usage of boosters as is. the penalty/reward for consuming boosters is perfectly fine.
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Ab'Synth
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Posted - 2010.10.24 22:49:00 -
[30]
Yes, more drugs please |
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